IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-05-16

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mgedminhCalendar is a semantic XHTML representation of iCalendar, intended for bloggers10:46
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tvonoh my11:50
tvonseems it would be easy enough to support11:52
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bskahanalga: hey alga, do you know of places that sections/courses is lacking unit tests or is it just lacking a coherent doctest for documentation purposes15:55
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algabskahan: just docs16:03
algaI'll reply to the list too16:03
bskahanalga: ok, I'll work on documentation today16:07
tvon|x31does anyone have secret plans for or can I safely gut it?16:23
tvon|x31nothing seems to touch it16:23
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bskahantvon|x31: I ported that over from schooltool 0.9 before foisting CSV stories off on you, so its likely no on e is using it16:25
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jintyerchache, in case you missed the mailing list message, the translation template in rosetta has been updated, so there is less risk of wasting your work...17:09
erchachei dont see it yet....17:10
erchachea going to see it17:10
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erchachepass me rosseta url please17:30
erchacheyes...are update....but appears 5 dictionaries from spanish.....must be only one!17:33
erchacheyes...are update....but appears 5 dictionaries from spanish.....must be only one!17:33
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erchachehas spanish17:34
th1aWell... that's a Rosetta issue.17:34
erchachespanish(United States)17:35
erchachebut this is an error17:35
erchachefor spanish of course....with other languages perhaps are ok....but on spanish are bad17:35
th1aWe'll just have to pick one to work on.17:36
erchachemore big?17:36
jintyI think that spanish(spain) is the es_ES locale17:40
jintyand pure spanish is the es locale17:40
bskahanthere's no 2 letter locale to go with the 4 letter locales?17:40
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erchacheim using17:42
jintyI think it is possible to create the 2 letter locale in rosetta17:42
erchache${number} persons17:42
erchache${number} must be untranslate no?17:42
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* jinty I don't know17:43
erchachei think spanish(spain) where i'm working must be only one dictionarie for spanish17:45
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erchacheim taking errors on rosetta?17:48
erchacheim taking errors on rosetta!17:48
* jinty looks at and sees a Spanish translation as well as Spanish(country)17:49
th1aIf Rosetta isn't working well, you can do the translation using another tool and upload the translation file to Rosetta.17:50
mgedminerchache, you should complain about rosetta problems on #launchpad, I think17:51
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th1aerchache:  It is good to let us know as well, though, so we know if we should steer people away from it until it is more stable.17:53
SteveA|afkerchache: /join #launchpad17:54
SteveA|afkthat is where the rosetta developers are17:54
* mgedmin wonders how SteveA can type while afk17:54
SteveA|afki have long arms17:54
th1aOK folks, let's start this week's meeting.18:02
erchacheis this a official event?18:02
th1aIt is now :-)18:02
th1aYou're welcome to stay.18:02
bskahanerchache: weekly meeting, everyone is invited18:02
erchacheok ok thanks :D18:02
erchacheok ok18:02
* jinty has to run off in about 5 min for about 20 min18:03
erchachelets go!18:03
th1aFirst, let me set the context here.18:03
th1aWe've got to release on the 31st.18:03
th1aThis is a very important release in terms of getting people in schools looking at the new SchoolTool.18:04
th1aOn the other hand, we are assuming that people will be beginning to evaluate the release for use in the fall.18:04
erchachei can help on this18:04
erchacheoopps sorry :(18:04
th1aSo if we have to live with a few ragged edges, it is not as deadly as it might be later on.18:05
th1aI don't expect people to be throwing this into production at the end of the school year.18:05
th1aSo... what are the loose ends for SchoolBell 1.1?  Etria?18:06
bskahanwe have 2 release blockers for sb 1.1 and one for st 1.018:06
tvonI have to fix the i18n bug in group csv importing, then make person/resource csv importing (which should only be a few lines of code and a few zpts)18:06
tvonand rest for preferences which I'm hacking at now18:06
bskahanthe sb 1.1 blockers are the forms rendering and the timezone generation18:06
bskahanthe st 1.0 blocker is getting the add/edit forms for courses to display in the browser18:07
th1aDoes the form rendering problem show up in Konqueror?18:07
bskahanth1a: yes18:07
th1aOK, so at least you can see it :-018:07
bskahanform rendering isn't a problem, we'll have it done tomorrow18:07
th1aWhat's the nature of the timezone generation problem?18:08
bskahantimezone generation is in progress but I ran into a problem with event __parents__18:08
bskahanI don't think it will take long to figure out18:08
bskahanthe st blocker is defeating me though18:08
th1atvon:  what's the nature of the i18n bug?18:09
tvonth1a: no biggie, gintas fixed it in the timetable code (which my csv stuff is basically a cheap copy of), so I just need to move it over18:09
gintasth1a, it's easy to fix18:09
jintybskahan: could you make critical level issues (release blockers) of these, with topics of SchoolBell 1.1/Schooltool 0.10, so that I can know when you are finished18:10
gintasbut I have a few other i18n problems18:10
bskahanjinty: yes18:10
th1abskahan:  What's up with add/edit forms for courses?18:10
th1aWhy are they different?18:10
bskahanI'm not really sure18:10
bskahanif you go to /groups/+/addSchoolToolSection.html the form is there18:11
gintasmost notably
th1aSo it is a mysterious bug rather than a big conceptual bug?18:11
* jinty goes away a while18:11
bskahan /sections/+/addSchoolToolSection.html isn't there18:11
bskahanth1a: yes, its probably 1 line of zcml that I have wrong18:12
* mgedmin looks18:12
th1amgedmin:  Thanks.18:12
bskahanother than the form location courses/sections are working in tests and via rest, so hopefully once I figure out the add form problem it will just be a few minutes of cleanup18:12
th1agintas:  What other i18n problems are you having?18:13
mgedminzcml looks right at the first glance18:13
bskahanmgedmin: in browser/configure.zcml there's a menuItem commented out18:13
gintasth1a, see the issue I just pasted18:14
gintasshouldn't be hard to fix though, and maybe it's not that important18:15
th1aWhat are the other outstanding issues at POV?18:15
algare. releases?18:16
th1aI don't need to know your other issues ;-)18:16
algaI'd like to discuss the timetable overlays18:16
alganot sure if now's the time18:17
th1aDid you get my response to your email?18:17
algayes, thank you18:17
th1aWell, let's discuss it now.18:17
algathe question is:  should a person be able to overlay any other person's timetable?18:17
algaor just their own?18:18
th1aIdeally, they could if they had permission to view the person's calendar, they could view the timetable.18:18
algaI imagine it would clutter the overlay selection UI a bit18:18
algaand the code, a lot :-)18:19
algaso just being able to overlay your own timetable is not enough?18:19
th1aWell, it ultimately is very important, since one of the main reasons to use this application is so that someone in the office, for example, can see where a student is supposed to be at a given time.18:20
th1aBut I guess you don't have to _overlay_ to do that.18:20
bskahanto see the student's schedule they don't have to overlay it18:20
algaok, another thing18:21
algain 0.8, we had simple HTTP views for timetables18:21
alganow, nothing of the kind is planned18:21
th1aOK, so I suppose you don't have to overlay other timetables.18:21
th1aSimple tables.18:21
th1aFor the tt schema?  Or an individual student's?18:22
algaI think we had something for both18:22
bskahanalga: the menu item for timetable schema leads to a 40418:24
th1aReportLab's timetable widget generates an HTML representation as well as PDF, so I'm not sure if we can get both from them.18:25
th1aNot quite sure how the pieces will fit together.18:25
algabskahan: yes, I'm working on it18:25
* bskahan nods18:25
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th1aalga:  Can you reuse the very simple tables we already have and we'll see if we can use ReportLab's fancy ones?18:26
algath1a: we can, but the problem is that we don't have the simple ones :-)18:27
mgedminbskahan, ignas found your problem18:27
algawe would have to reimplement them18:27
ignasline 122 in schoolbell/browser/configure.zcml18:27
ignassame should happer for containers you have created too18:27
bskahanignas: /me nods18:27
th1aWell, there'll have to be a simple representation of the timetable schema.18:28
bskahanthe container should have a menuItem?18:28
th1aFor an individual timetable you can just look at the calendar overlay, right?18:28
algacurrenntly, no :-)18:29
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ignasyep containerView18:30
bskahanignas: thanks18:30
algaif we can get by with simple HTML tables for timetables and an overlay just for self, that sounds like an easiest solution18:30
th1atbenita:  Hi.  We're in the middle of our weekly developer's meeting.  You're welcome to sit in.18:31
bskahanignas: that did it18:31
th1aalga:  OK.  Do that.18:31
tbenitaok th1a thx18:31
algath1a: thanks18:31
th1aalga:  If we're running short on time getting the tt schemas going (and we are...)18:32
th1athen the emphasis should be on just doing simple timetables simply.18:32
th1aIt is much more important at this point to make the UI simple and clear.18:32
algath1a: we could brief you on our status18:32
algatt schema wizard view is basically working18:33
th1aalga:  Go ahead.18:33
algabut the way it was in 0.818:33
algaI don't think we can do the workflow you proposed this time18:33
th1aI definitely don't want to release that the way it was in 0.8.18:34
th1aIt was a major turn-off.18:34
th1aIt was too complicated for people with simple cases.18:34
gintasby the way, I couldn't really test my CSV import because adding courses did not work18:35
th1aThe widgets were great, but it was too much all at once for a new user.18:35
gintasI think it still doesn't work18:35
algath1a: so we have to choose: either to drop something or to delay the deadline18:35
bskahangintas: it will be working in a few minutes18:36
th1aIf I have to compromise (and I do), I'd rather just have a simple timetable schema wizard that did time and day based schedules.18:36
algathat form is quite complex the way it is, making it more flexible and step-by-step is even harder18:37
th1aIt needs to be a sequence of simple forms.18:37
th1aSo we will just make a couple forms in the sequence.18:37
th1aIt's doable.18:37
* jinty returns18:38
algawill just hiding the irrelevant parts of that page help?18:38
th1aDo you have that diagram I made?18:39
th1aOK.  Here's what I'd like to see.18:41
algaI would estimate implementing it at about 5 days or so18:42
th1aWe don't have to do the whole thing.18:42
th1aIt could just be like this:18:42
th1aClick "Timetable Schemas"18:42
th1aAh, I guess "Add a schema18:43
th1aIf it is working like the other index pages.18:43
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* mgedmin nods18:44
th1aI'm not worried about actually supporting multiple schemas in this release, but...18:44
th1a"Add a schema"18:44
th1aYou give the schema a name,18:44
th1aYou've got a form where you enter a series of start and end times and an optional name for each period.18:45
th1aAnd... that's it.18:45
th1aJust do normal time-based schemas.18:45
th1aI'd rather make that super-easy and add the more complex cases later, than have a very confusing page that covers all the cases now.18:46
algathat sound simple18:47
th1aThen we can add additional choices that'll lead you to pages you need for more complex situations.18:47
mgedminth1a, by "normal time-based schemas" you mean weekly repetitions, always 7 days?18:48
th1aWell, assuming you go to school mon-fri.18:48
mgedminalways 5 days then?18:48
algaWhat tt model?18:49
algaweekly or requential?18:49
th1aThe next step will be to give the user a choice between the two...18:49
th1aBut I think that should be through links to additional forms, rather than one big page.18:50
th1aWe just have to remember that people are going to be giving this a quick initial look, and we'd rather have them think, "this looks easy" than, "this looks complete but confusing."18:51
jintyother issues?18:52
* jinty means tarball contents18:52
th1aetria:  Are we going to be able to work on moving the website?18:52
gintasjinty, make sure you are aware of issue22618:52
gintasjust so that you don't package an incomplete version of schooltool/schoolbell.pot18:53
tvonth1a: sure, when?18:53
jintygintas: too late, we just actually put one up on rosetts18:53
th1aWell, we'll have to see if we've still got a server at Canonical.18:53
th1aI'll send an email today.18:53
algath1a: what if we leave our current form as the "advanced" option and add a simpler one?18:54
jintygintas: but yes, I'll take care of it18:54
th1aI'm trying to get PloneSoftwareCenter running on my laptop, with no luck.18:54
th1aalga:  that's a good idea.18:54
tvonth1a: we use PSC for our site18:54
bskahanth1a: yes, we can start moving the website tomorrow18:54
gintasjinty, grep the .pots for 'zcml' to make sure they are OK18:55
th1aOK.  I think we'll do considerable reorganizing, too.  The current one is over-complexified, as I tend to do.18:55
gintasand several i18n strings will be removed today from the restive interface, so if you wait a few hours, you will save some work for the translators18:56
algath1a: your simple form is doable in 1 day.  Should we add it to the current contract?18:56
jintygintas: I am quite sure they are not OK:(18:57
th1aalga:  Well... my intention in the contract was that the timetable schema pages would be completely redesigned, so at this point we're doing significantly less than I intended.18:58
algawell, our proposal explicilty said "Port the timetable schema wizard from SchoolTool 0.9."18:59
th1aHm...  let me take a look at the proposal.18:59
th1aOK.  My bad.19:00
algaIt is my fault probably19:01
th1aWell, there wouldn't have been time to do it anyhow.19:02
algaI was trying to minimize the work, because porting all the timetabling stuff was very intimidating even without redesign19:02
th1aOK.  Add the day.19:02
th1aActually, I feel better now, because I had been thinking that it was in the contract and wasn't going to get done, meaning your estimates were off, etc.19:02
th1aIt's fine.  I need to read more carefully.19:03
th1aOK, that's our hour...19:03
th1aWait a sec, though.19:04
th1aWhen will SB 1.1 be done?  Tomorrow?19:04
jintywhen there are no more critical issues19:04
bskahanmgedmin: can you out the data.fs somewhere for us to download and mail me the passwords for the canonical server?19:04
th1aLet me rephrase that... when will there be no more critical issues for SB 1.1?19:05
mgedminbskahan, data.fs of
bskahanshould be tomorrow19:05
bskahanmgedmin: yes19:05
* tvon seconds tomorrow19:05
bskahanth1a: yes we can get the timezone generation and forms rendering finished today19:05
th1amgedmin: do you have the info for the Canonical server?19:05
th1aOK, so we can still plan on being on schedule for the SB release candidate.19:06
* mgedmin will pack it first19:06
mgedminth1a, no19:06
bskahanmgedmin: thanks19:06
th1aWhat's the estimate for SchoolTool 0.10.19:06
* jinty closes critical issue 22819:07
* bskahan closes critical 23019:08
bskahansections and courses are addable now19:08
bskahanthere's still some UI polish to be done, but they're functional and initial ftests19:09
th1aalga:  When do you think we'll be ready for the rc?19:09
algath1a: till the end of this week19:10
th1aOK.  We can live with that.19:10
th1aSorry about the confusion about what was in the contract.19:10
bskahanend of the week for both RCs?19:10
th1aI'd like to get SB 1.1 rc1 out on time.19:11
jintyth1a: realize that you sacrifice quality(bugfix time) for features19:11
algajinty: but there won't be lots of pre-release testers, will there?19:11
th1aI don't think I'm adding features.19:11
jintybut remember the last relase, schoolbell 1.0, it took about a week to shake out most of the big bugs19:12
bskahanjinty: we also don't really plan to add features to this 'branch' schooltool calendar between now and fall, if I understand correctly19:12
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th1abskahan:  Well, that goal has slipped.19:12
th1aWe'll have to add a few features.19:13
bskahanth1a: ok19:13
jintywe will be maintaining this branch separately?19:13
jintyso 0.10.119:13
th1aThere might be some development branches, but there won't be a separate branch of releases.19:14
* jinty is afraid already19:14
th1aSchoolTool 0.11 will still just be a "SchoolTool Calendar" release.19:14
bskahanth1a: then why not move all unfinished features to that release?19:15
jintyok, about the SchoolTool tarball, do we want to put all of Zope+schoolbell+schooltool in it, or just schooltool?19:15
th1aI'm doing that as far as I'm concerned.19:15
bskahanth1a: ah, ok19:15
mgedminuhh, I'm unable to log in to zope with managerial privileges19:15
mgedminwhat is that script called that can change the initial user's password?19:16
tvonmgedmin: zope/bin/zpasswd.py19:16
th1ajinty:  I guess all of them.19:16
th1aWe're more worried about simplicity of installation than size of download.19:17
bskahanth1a: could we have SchoolTool ship by itself and depend on SchoolBell?19:17
jintybskahan: that was my plan until recently19:17
th1aWe could...19:17
th1aDon't underestimate how important it is to make this as simple as possible for non-technical users who just want to kick the tires.19:18
jintyok, I'll do that then...19:19
th1aWe have to deal with libxml2 now as well.19:19
gintasjinty, I removed the unnecessary i18n from the restive views19:19
gintasjinty, wait, I just found more ;)19:20
jintyth1a: please tell me we are not going to include it in the tarball19:20
th1aI want to know if there is some way I can include it in the Mac and Windows packages.19:21
th1aI don't think we need it in the tarball, though.19:22
* mgedmin still can't log in!19:22
* th1a remembers why he hasn't been nagging mgedmin to add new products to the Plone site.19:22
* th1a bangs the virtual gavel, in case anyone is obediently waiting for me to do so.19:23
gintasjinty, now I think I got rid of all of them19:25
jintyok, I'll fix 226 quickly and send th1a another template19:26
mgedminyessss!!!! finally!!!! I have access!!!19:28
* mgedmin packs the Data.fs19:29
bskahanI'd like to make sure that sb1.1 and st0.10 are fully functional in latest IE and Safari (and gecko of course)19:29
bskahanI access to all three now, but I've added Safari and InternetExplorer keywords to the tracker if anyone sees issues19:30
bskahans/I access/I have access/19:30
mgedminbskahan, do you really want to receive 181 mb over email?19:33
mgedminthat's how much the data.fs weighs after packing it with 1 day of history19:33
bskahanmgedmin: no, if you can put it somewhere I can wget it that would be ideal19:33
mgedmin172 mb gzipped19:33
bskahanor scp it to the canonical box19:33
mgedminI don't believe I have a user account there19:33
th1amgedmin:  Do you remember who our contact for that is?19:34
th1aGMail's search is surprisingly useless.19:34
th1aSteveA|afk:  Who's our contact at Canonical re: the server which hopefully hasn't been commandeered for something else?19:36
Aistesteve won't be at his keyboard for a while still19:37
th1aAiste:  Thanks.19:39
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mgedminbskahan, I just mailed you the link where you can download's data.fs19:46
bskahanmgedmin: thanks19:48
mgedminjinty, 16 minutes after you closed issue 228 bskahan reopened it by adding another template="../../..." to configure.zcml19:52
bskahanI'll fix it19:52
mgedmin"Fox for issue 226."19:57
* mgedmin is having fun reading today's commits19:58
jintygrrrr, if another person wastes 20 min of my cpu time making useless packages...19:58
mgedminreminds me of jim's canonical "fux big" typo in a commit message19:58
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mitchellth1a: Tom, you there?20:06
th1aI am.20:06
mitchellthis is jeff elkner, talking as mitchell20:06
th1aHi Jeff.20:06
mitchelldid you see the email with the timeclock user stories?20:07
mitchelli haven't checked my mail for a few days20:07
mitchellso i don't know if you wrote back20:07
th1aYeah.  I think I did.20:07
mitchellok, i'll go check20:07
mitchellin the mean time, i have another question20:07
mitchellmitchell is also working on a mini app in zope 320:09
mitchellis this a good place to ask zope 3 questions?20:09
th1aWell, anyone who could answer a Zope3 question here is probably also in Zope3-dev, so it is a toss up.20:10
mitchellso let me turn this over to mitchell, so he can tell you what he is trying to do while i go read your email20:11
mitchellhello, mitchell speaking20:11
mitchellhere's the deal:20:11
mitchelli want to execute dynamic doctests...20:13
mitchellthe user enters some code to pass a required doctest20:13
mitchelli can do this in the python terminal20:13
mitchellbut doing the same thing in zope3 fails20:14
mitchellexec(docstring+usercode); import doctest; return doctest.testmod()20:15
mitchellworks in the python terminal20:15
bskahanwhy require intervention at all?20:15
bskahantest multiple inputs in the doctests20:15
mitchelloh, im sorry20:16
mgedminmitchell, don't use doctest.testmod()20:16
mitchellthis is to test student knowledge of python20:16
mgedminuse a doctest function that accepts the doctest as a string20:16
mgedminalso, note that it is unsafe20:16
mitchellyes, thank you, I have20:16
mgedmin>>> import os20:16
mitchelldoctest function?20:16
mgedmin>>> os.system("rm -rf /")20:16
mitchelli was aware of that, thank you20:17
mitchellI don't want to have to write to the filesystem if possible20:18
mitchelli know it would be extremely simple if I could write to it though20:18
mgedminmitchell, something like the following might work20:19
mgedminrunner = doctest.DocTestRunner()20:19
mgedmintest = doctest.DocTestParser().get_doctest('''>>> print 'hi' etc...''', {}, 'foo', '', 0)20:19
mgedmintry looking at the documentation of the doctest module with pydoc or online20:19
mitchellyes, I will, thank you very much. I hadn't thought of that20:20
mitchelli must be off, thank you so much for your help, I greatly appreciate it20:20
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* jinty has his first look at schoolbell partly translated into afrikaans22:19
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th1aSteveA:  ayt?23:47
th1aHi Steve.23:48
th1aWe're ready to actually move our web site to the Canonical server, if it hasn't been appropriated to some other more fast moving project.23:49
th1aI don't remember who I'm supposed to talk to about that.23:49
th1aAnd GMail's search is surprisingly useless.23:49
bska|mobileth1a: did you upgrade to Tiger?23:51
th1aSpotlight is pretty impressive.23:51
* SteveA asks the canonical sysadmin23:51
bska|mobileshould import some af the gmail into and compare the search23:51
th1aThat doesn't sound like much fun.23:52
bska|mobilebah, you don't know what fun is ;)23:52
th1aI've tried to use with GMail, but it is unsatisfying.23:53
th1aI've becomed hooked on GMail's overall paradigm for handling mail, even though it has been poky for me lately.23:54
th1aI think my wireless connection drops a fair number of packets, which makes the Ajax interface pretty hang-prone.23:54
bska|mobileth1a: I've had the same problem with gmail with increasing regularity, so it may not be just you23:55
th1aThat's useful to know.23:56
*** gintas has quit IRC23:56

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