IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-05-02

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bskahanhey ignas14:55
algabskahan: I've figured out the way to separate the SB and ST skins15:58
algaST app does not have to inherit from SB app class15:58
algasince the code is duplicated anyway15:58
algathe SB class has to have an interface IWantASchoolBellSkin15:59
algaand the skin must be added if that interface is there15:59
bskahanalga: that makes sense16:00
bskahanI've been trying to move the schoolbell skin's menus and CSS into slot/pagelets so that the schooltool skin can overide just the part of the skin it needs to16:02
bskahanrunning into some annoying zcml errors in the process though16:02
algaI would be glad if more of our calendar views code was in schoolbell.calendar16:03
* bskahan agrees16:03
algathat would make it a more useful library for Zope 3 users16:03
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bskahanignas: to close
ignasand please try a bigger picture17:07
ignasor i will open a new issuse :P17:07
bskahanwas actually going to ask about that17:08
bskahancan we add image scaling back?17:08
mgedminwhat's that toolbar at the bottom?17:08
mgedminfoaf, opml, google, doggy?17:08
bskahanfoal, doap, gmail, beagle17:09
bskahanall seperate plugins17:09
bskahanthe gmail one is actually useful, the foaf and doap have lost their allure17:09
bskahanbeagle is a farce17:09
bskahanfiguring out how to put a randomly sized image into the UI sucks a bit, would it be a problem if I port the old scaling code over?17:10
bskahanignas: it will work with a large image17:11
bskahanit just won't be pretty17:11
bskahanit actually looks the the same, but that's because I constrained the img tag width to 48px, looks nice, loads slow with a 1600x1200 image17:12
mgedmin-1 for scaling on the server side17:13
bskahanI was afraid of that17:13
mgedmin+1 for giving an indication of the recommended picture size in the upload form17:13
algayep, useful insight17:14
algaI'm usually annoyed if the server scales an image for me17:14
algaand then compresses it as jpeg at 75%17:14
bskahaneveryone here knows what 640x480 means though17:14
algawhat do you mean?17:15
bskahanif I say 640x480,everyone here knows I'm talking about pixels17:15
bskahanand probably knows exactly what program on their computer can be used to get that17:16
bskahanI think many computer users have never cropped or resized a picture17:16
alga"ideally this image should be no bigger than 80 by 80 pixels"17:16
bskahanand have no idea what a pixel is17:16
algamaybe you're right17:16
algawe could provide a selection of stock avatars :-)17:17
bskahanI just watched a non-technical user emailing me an image17:17
bskahanexplaining resizing (actually changing the image) was different than grabbing the corner and scaling it in word ...17:18
algamgedmin: what about a conditional import of PIL?17:19
mgedmindon't we have more important things to do?17:19
mgedminand a strict time limit?17:19
algaI won't be doing it anyway17:20
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bskahantvon's going to be a few minutes late17:59
GaryPosterHey--I have some questions/suggestions about the schoolbell iCal allday approach...but it looks like you all arre about to have a mtg?18:01
ignaswell, meetings are for questions :)18:01
GaryPoster:-) yeah, but I wasn't on the invite list afaik ;-)18:01
GaryPosterOK, I'll fire away, I guess.  if anyone wants to quiet me down, just let me know.18:02
GaryPosterI was shuffling around in schoolbell/app/browser/ and saw this comment:18:03
GaryPoster            # iCalendar has no spec for describing all-day events, but it seems18:03
GaryPoster            # to be the de facto standard to give them a 1d duration.18:03
GaryPosterAFAIK, and I think I know :-), you specify iCal all day events by not specifying a time.18:03
bskahanI think that's tvon's comment, he'll be here in a few minutes18:04
GaryPosterThen, further, it looks like the code treats all day events as beginning midnight UTC, which is not an all day event... ok, cool18:05
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tvonGaryPoster: hey, in regards to allday events. Where is this information from?18:13
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GaryPosterHey tvon.  I'll (try to) look it up right now.  I implemented some of this in an old project.18:13
bskahanth1a: ping18:15
tvonafk a min18:15
bskahan is that applicable to current Z3 based code?18:15
th1aHere I am.18:16
algabskahan: yes18:17
algait's kind of obsolete18:17
algaalthough I don't know if z3 does OPTIONS right18:17
th1aShould have gone to bed before 4:00 am.18:18
bskahan can someone check that on IE?18:19
bskahanit seems closable in mozilla18:19
th1abskahan:  Thanks for getting things rolling.18:20
bskahanalga: what are OPTIONS used for?18:21
th1aIs that a HTTP verb?18:21
th1aScrolling back over earlier discussion... I'd rather not spend time getting images to work right.  We've got other priorities.18:26
algaI agree18:27
th1aSo still needs to be done?  By bskahan?18:27
bskahanis that timezone migration?18:28
bskahanI got distracted18:29
tvonI have some Q's for POV on CSV importing18:29
tvonLooking at group csv importing, I currently am going at it by making a custom schema with the group title/description and and two additional fields (one for typing in a list of groups and one for uploading a csv).18:30
tvonDoing this requires rewriting most of what things like AddView provide because AddView only expects to be adding one object to the container and we need to be able to add many..18:31
tvonmy question is only, am I on crack or does this seem like the way to go?18:31
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mgedminyou don't have to use the AddView if it doesn't help you18:33
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tvonokay, cool18:34
mgedminI believe adding an item to the group container does everything that needs to be done (posting Zope 3 events etc)18:34
mgedminperhaps you need to manually send out an ObjectCreatedEvent18:34
bskahan222 and 210 are duplicates?18:34
tvonmgedmin: yeah, thats what I'm doing right now18:34
bskahanat least the error part18:34
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mgedmin222 is 2 bugs in one issue18:35
mgedminI was thinking about splitting it into two issues18:35
mgedminnow I won't need to do that ;)18:35
GaryPostertvon (and all): sorry, my IRC apparently didn't like my pastes :-(.  to answer tvon's question: says...18:36
GaryPoster4.8.2.4 Date/Time Start18:36
GaryPoster   Property Name: DTSTART18:36
GaryPoster   Purpose: This property specifies when the calendar component begins.18:36
GaryPoster   Value Type: The default value type is DATE-TIME. The time value MUST18:36
GaryPoster   be one of the forms defined for the DATE-TIME value type. The value18:36
GaryPoster   type can be set to a DATE value type.18:36
th1afyi, is fixed in IE for Mac.  Do we have IE for Windows?18:36
GaryPosterMac iCal might not get this right; not sure.  The first googled page I could18:36
GaryPosterfind with this in real life use was18:36
GaryPosterLogically, the “New year’s day” event begins and ends at a specific time only18:36
GaryPosterat rendering time—according to the timezone of the person asking the18:37
GaryPosterquestion—and no specific times may be established at storage time.18:37
th1aIs someone going to fix or are we just going to ignore it?18:39
* bskahan ignores all references to 20018:41
algawell, it's not harmful enough for us to invest in it18:41
ignasand it is a Zope3 bug anyway18:41
algaand it is submitted to the Zope3 collector18:42
bskahanth1a: if you notice any pages that use view/update instead of view/update_status we could fix those18:42
bskahan(if that's a suitable workaround)18:42
th1aOK.  marking 200 as deferred.18:43
th1aAnyone have KOrganizer handy to test
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bskahanare we officially supporting the commandline client?18:46
bskahan could be marked 'wish' is not18:46
th1a -- i18n in SchoolBell -- can be closed, right?  But that leads me to a question:  can we set up new translation files so people can get to work on this?18:47
th1abskahan:  perhaps it would be more appropriate to mark as deferred.18:48
bskahanth1a: ok, I'll do that18:49
th1aOK.  I'm in favor of moving things to deferred if we have no intention of dealing with them.18:50
th1a -- many teachers for a single group -- isn't really relevant, except as a warning to make this work in the new implementation.  Should I just leave it?18:51
tvonGaryPoster: are you on the mailing list?18:52
GaryPosternope.  Want me to be? :-)18:52
tvonactually, would you mind filing a bug about that at so I can take a look at it later?18:52
GaryPosterwill do.18:53
th1aI'm not sure what "ZMI find dialog hits error on PersonContainer" means for  This seems more like a wish than a bug.18:53
bskahanif it just didn't find people I'd call it a wish18:54
bskahanbut it raises a traceback in the ZMI18:54
bskahanin fact, it breaks the ZMI search entirely, iirc18:55
th1aSo what needs to be done?18:55
bskahanth1a: that I'm not sure18:56
bskahanI haven't looked18:56
th1aalga:  Is this still a problem:  In the SchoolTool server only page rendering is protected, but URL traversal is18:57
th1anot.  It should be.
mgedminI think it's not a problem any more18:58
mgedminor is it?18:58
mgedmincan someone verify?18:58
* th1a is afraid this meeting has been a complete failure.18:58
bskahanmgedmin: its still a bug18:59
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th1aHm... I'll have to think about how we're going to assign responsibility for these bugs.19:02
* th1a bangs the virtual gavel.19:02
algathis bug is not relevant any more!19:03
bskahanalga: you sound surprised ...19:03
th1aalga:  could you close it?19:04
bskahanwhat does 'done-cbb' mean?19:04
ignascould be better19:05
bskahanignas: thanks19:05
bskahanmgedmin: can that be closed?19:06
mgedminit means that roundup's maintainers are <insert-negative-epitet-here>19:06
mgedmin(oops, lost an h there)19:06
mgedmin"what does done-cbb" mean is the most frequently asked roundup question, according to google19:07
mgedminyet it is *not* in roundup's FAQ list19:07
mgedminI think 35 can be closed19:07
bskahanclosing it19:08
mgedminwe don't have an absence tracker in the new trunk yet, do we?19:08
th1aNo, so I guess we can close attendance tracking bugs.19:08
th1aPerhaps things like and that are for features that are being re-implemented could be marked in-progress?19:10
bskahanth1a: makes sense19:12
th1aOK.  I'm going to do that.19:12
bskahanneed a done-ddta status19:13
bskahan(done, don't do that again)19:13
faassenGaryPoster: you're right about allday events.19:13
faassenGaryPoster: I've looke dinto this extensively for the calendar implementatino I was working on.19:13
faassenGaryPoster: you specify a range by not specifying the time, just the date, end not inclusive. that requires careful reading of the spec which is a bit ambiguous, but all clients I've tested do it taht way.19:14
mgedminiirc mozilla calendar was buggy at one time19:14
mgedminit treated dtend as inclusive, not as exclusive19:14
mgedminbut that might be fixed already19:14
faassenGaryPoster: I tested with Apple iCal, Mozilla Sunbird and KOrganzier.19:14
faassenmgedmin: I think so.. I tested this quite a bit, though I might've missed this.19:15
faassenmgedmin: but I did test quite a bit to verify it worked right. the confusing this is the UI typically includes the end as inclusive.19:15
faassenmgedmin: but the iCalendar data sent doesn't.19:15
* mgedmin nods19:15
GaryPosterfaassen: right, agree. :-)  client info is very good to know, excellent.  are you still working on calendar impl., or merging efforts with schoolbell?19:15
faassenGaryPoster: working on a separate one, though I try to go with schoolbell if I can get away with it.19:16
faassenGaryPoster: unfortunately this needs to work in Zope 2 + Five and backporting schoolbell calendar wasn't working, I tried for a day or two.19:16
GaryPosterfaassen: yes, I really don't want to have us build yet another calendar.  GPL is prob. for us, of course, so schoolbell has to really win us a lot...Five: ah, I see.  was it the UI in particular, or something else?19:17
faassenGaryPoster: well, this project is for Nuxeo and GPL too.19:17
GaryPosterah, cool19:17
GaryPosterI meant prob. for ZC19:17
faassenGaryPoster: no, even the underlying schoolbell.calendar was too tied in to Zope 3 trunk.19:17
faassenGaryPoster: I understand, I prefer BSD myself. :)19:18
faassenGaryPoster: anyway, it shoulod actually have been released in beta form today but I don't think they have. :)19:18
faassenGaryPoster: but it should be released Any Day Now.19:18
faassenGaryPoster: most interesting might be the CalCore, whichi s basically just a python library pretending to be a zope 2 product when it finds itself in zope 2.19:18
GaryPosterfaassen: oh--of course, I forgot you are on 3.0.  makes sense.  OK, cool, I'll keep an eye out for it. :-)19:18
faassenGaryPoster: that should be portable straightforwardly to Zope 3 trunk.19:18
GaryPosterhm, what does it provide?  (built on maxm's stuff I assume)19:19
faassenGaryPoster: also interesting might be the iCalendar library, which is LGPL. that's MaxM's stuff.19:19
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faassenGaryPoster: it provides events that have attendees that can invite each other.19:19
GaryPosterfaassen: right, I have a checkout of that now19:19
faassenGaryPoster: all day event handling, free time algorithsm to find out when there's space free for a given set of events.19:19
GaryPosterfaassen: with full iCal negotiation semantics?19:19
mgedminfaassen, what's so z3-trunkish about sb.calendar?19:20
faassenGaryPoster: no, we haven't gotten around to iCalendar attendee support yet.19:20
mgedminiirc we only use the component architecture, which I thought was ported to Five19:20
GaryPosterfaassen: yeah, that's tricky, I think19:20
faassenmgedmin: oh, there's also properties, which don't work in Zope 2.7.19:20
faassenmgedmin: tons of properties. then there are various schema fields which don't exist.19:20
faassenmgedmin: I'm not sure I'm only talking about schoolbell.calendar, I tried to port more.19:20
faassenmgedmin: I just tried very hard and couldn't get it off the ground.19:20
th1afaassen: I'm going to see Mark this week.  As far as I understand, the issues are 1) do we want to move to an external dependency on an iCalendar library we don't control and 2) do we want to switch our iCal library to LGPL so we can merge some of our code with yours if appropriate.19:20
faassenmgedmin: as I didn't want to reinvent wheels.19:21
faassenmgedmin: we did follow your interfaces and we took your recurrent event implementation.19:21
faassenth1a: I am not sure whether 2) is extremely important, as iCalendar seems fairly complete.19:21
mgedminsb.calendar is also a soup of components rather than a framework19:21
mgedminyou can choose and pick those components that suit you19:21
faassenth1a: though it might be useful if you want to put in a slightly higher level of abstraction into the iCalendar python library.19:21
mgedminand provide implementations of others19:22
faassenmgedmin: I know, but you know, I tried very hard. :)19:22
faassenmgedmin: and we only got so far.19:22
faassenmgedmin: but I think I was more ambitious and also wanted to port the views.19:22
faassenmgedmin: I do not recall exactl now, it's been a month or two.19:22
faassenmgedmin: anyway, we also needed attendee handling. we still hope we can evolve towards each other again eventually.19:22
GaryPostermgedmin: schoolbell doesn't do meeting negotiation, either, eight?19:23
faassenth1a: but the external dependency issue is the tricky one, yeah.19:23
GaryPostereight==right :-)19:23
faassenGaryPoster: last I checked it didn't. the CPSSharedCalendar project does a lot with that.19:23
bskahanth1a: another issue to cover with mark is schoolbell.relationship possibly going into zope core19:24
GaryPosterfaassen: Yeah, that was my impression19:24
faassenanyway, iCalendar is very flexible licensing wise. it's currently LGPL but if something more liberal is necessary, that's fine.19:24
faassenCPSSharedCalendar, it's harder to say.19:24
faassenNuxeo tends to default to GPL.19:24
faassenbut one can talk to them.19:24
faassenanyway, I'd be very interested in moving CPSSharedCalendar functionality into schoolbell. :)19:25
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faassengiven appropriate funding definitely. ;)19:25
mgedminGaryPoster, no meetings19:25
mgedminfaassen: yes, the views weren't designed to be reusable19:25
faassenneither are ours. anyway, we tried to stay close enough to your interfaces.19:26
faassenmgedmin: I need to study the way you handle recurrent events a bit more. we ended up having a separation between 'occurrences' of an event and the actual event.19:26
faassenmgedmin: which seems to be, looking at iCalendar clients, a common decision. I believe CalDav also does something similar.19:27
* mgedmin nods19:27
faassenmgedmin: you have a slightly mor involved story where an occurrence *is* an event, at least in the interface, and then proxy stuff.19:27
mgedminif you found our interfaces inconvenient or cumbersome for certain use cases, I'd like to hear about that19:27
faassenmgedmin: in Zope 2 terms that would become too hairy, also because our interfaces are fatter, I think.19:27
mgedminthere are some not-nice wrinkles19:27
faassenmgedmin: yeah, I will look whether I can write up something about it all.19:28
mgedminlike that bit about reusing the event for its occurrence19:28
faassenmgedmin: we made recurrent events mutable. :)19:28
faassenmgedmin: right, we separated it out entirely, after long discussions.19:28
mgedminit bit us later in view code where some events had an 'original' attribute, and some didn't19:28
faassenmgedmin: we just have occurrences which *all* have an original attribut,e and events which never do.19:28
faassenmgedmin: it worked out fairly well, the view code turned out to need very little adjustment.19:28
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faassenanyway, i'm chattering away, sorry.19:29
* faassen will go quiet for a bit. :)19:29
bskahananyone know what happened to batching in zope core?19:37
bskahanthere's a CVS attic in view-cvs19:38
bskahanthe code still lives in the zope3 svn in the tracker though19:43
mgedminI wonder if it is difficult to fix 'make' in schooltool trunk19:51
mgedmin/home/mg/src/schooltool/src/schooltool/tests/ WARNING: TestTimetableException not in test suite19:53
mgedmin/home/mg/src/schooltool/src/schooltool/tests/ WARNING: TestExceptionalTTCalendarEvent not in test suite19:53
mgedmineek! who is making fun of the SB logo?20:01
ignasbad artist ! bad artist! no cookie !20:01
* mgedmin is referring to the abomination that is checked in into schooltool trunk as logo.png20:01
mgedmindidn't we have a real logo somewhere in the old trunk?  or was it too big to fit into the new design?20:02
bskahanthere was no logo that day20:02
bskahanand I needed something to tell me when the new skin kicked in20:02
bskahanI'll check the real logo in soon20:02
mgedminalga, why don't we use a simple zope 3 container for term and timetable schema services?20:57
algaI just moved the module and made minimal changes to make it work21:06
algatts has a defaukt21:06
algaterms might just be a standard container21:06
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* mgedmin notices i18n:domain="schoolbell" in schooltool's page templates and starts wondering about that21:24
bskahanmgedmin: should be schooltool domain, correct?21:26
mgedminI'm very indecisive today for some reason21:28
bskahanI think it should, the pages in the schooltool tree should only be there if they differ from schoolbell21:29
bskahanso they would be in a seperate translation set21:29
bskahanthe 'schoolbell's in there are probably me being sloppy21:29
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* mgedmin suggests getting rid of IAdaptableToSchoolBellApplication21:59
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