IRC log of #schooltool for Saturday, 2005-04-16

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FarcePestbuh bye00:27
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predictiveI just finished a first cut at implementing a couple of american edu standards20:23
predictivespecifically AICC and SCORM20:23
predictiveany interest in integrating those?20:23
th1aImplementing them in Python?20:24
predictiveI only have a vague idea of your codebase but a friend said I should pop in and ask20:24
bskahanpredictive: do you have a web reference for them, I'm not familiar with the acronyms (th1a probably is)20:24
predictivesure, one sec20:24
th1aI don't know AICC.20:24
predictiveth1a: they are already in python20:24
predictiveAICC is mostly used to let one LMS talk to another LMS to launch courses20:25
predictiveand do tracking, etc20:25
predictiveSCORM is a course interchange format20:25
predictivethat has an API along with it20:25
predictiveyes, they are dry, boring, way too long standards20:25
th1aLMS isn't going to be a part of our core functionality.20:25
predictivewhich means I'm probably one of the very few people ever who have slogged through it in python20:26
predictiveah, I did not know that20:26
th1aBut we'd certainly like people to add LMS to SchoolTool.20:26
predictiveI have 3/4 of one written20:26 is something about aviation20:26
th1aIs it web based?20:26
predictiveamong other things, yep20:26
th1aLots of training needed in aviation.20:27
predictivebskahan: the aviation community created the standard a long time ago20:27
th1aTracking specialized skills..20:27
predictivebut it's become a general format20:27
th1aNeed to get that right.20:27
th1aOr else... CRASH!20:27
th1aSCORM is sort of the same thing for the military.20:27
th1aOr else... BOOM!20:28
predictiveth1a: the LMS I'm working on uses twisted20:28
predictiveso I have a couple of frontends20:28
predictivelike it talks xmlrpc which nobody else seems very interested in atm20:28
bskahanartillery operator: gee, I wish I'd paid attention in Trig20:28
th1aWe talk REST.20:28
predictiveI've only briefly read about that20:28
predictiveit's the um, keep state in a url idea?20:28
predictiveis that right?20:28
bskahanI, for one, welcome our new WSGI overloards20:29
th1aNot really.20:29
th1aMore like just sending XML documents over HTTP.20:29
predictivewell, doesn't seem like a good fit then'20:29
predictivehaha xmlrpc is sending xml docs over http20:29
th1aI guess one difference is that XMLRPC is 'RPC,' while REST is documents.20:30
th1aI can't remember at the moment if XMLRPC uses regular HTTP verbs.20:31
th1aSomehow I don't feel up to the task of giving a proper description of REST...20:31
predictivethat's okay I'm googling20:31
predictivehow does it deal with non latin charsets?20:34 has a new regular column on rest20:34
bskahanI don't think that particular article is from the comlumn though20:35
predictivegiven the security problems with IDN, though those are really problems of mixing charsets20:35
predictiveinternational domain names20:36
predictiveyou know, domain names in unicode charsets like say, japanese20:36
th1aREST uses the architecture of the web, so the places the web arch. is weak, REST web services are weak.20:36
predictiveyeah, I'm just asking, not um picking20:37
predictiveevery technology has weak spots20:37
th1aSam Ruby has a sobering presentation on the subject.20:37
th1aBasically, we're approaching interop more as scriptability at this point than supporting the big enterprise specifications.20:38
predictiveso schooltool is really aimed at the administrative portions of education?20:38
th1aBecause our primary motivation is philanthopic, schools that currently have no administrative software.20:38
th1aOr just crappy, expensive.20:38
predictivewell, sorry I couldn't be more helpful20:38
predictivehaha I do most of my work in the USA edu market, and there's a lot of that20:39
th1aWell, in the long run our projects should work together nicely, actually.20:39
predictiveI hope so20:39
th1aIs your project open source?20:40
predictiveI'm waiting to finish it before I go to the trouble of releasing code20:40
predictivelest I be struck by the curse of sourceforge20:40
predictive10,000 abandoned projects20:40
predictiveit will be, BSD licensed20:40
predictiveI see20:41
predictiveyou know AICC works exactly this way except it uses ini type structure instead of xml20:41
th1aUp to this point, we've been focusing on calendaring, as a way to get our foot in the door of schools.20:41
predictivethat's a pretty good problem20:41
predictivescheduling is hard20:41
predictiveand no cal spec has won yet20:42
predictivehard to know what to target20:42
bskahanicalendar would win if outlook supported it20:42
th1aYeah, and calendaring isn't quite as mission critical as most of the rest of the stuff we'll be doing: grades, attendance, etc.20:42
th1aHopefully CalDAV will come through.20:42
th1aThat seems most promising.20:42
* predictive googles20:42
predictivebe nice if there was some RSS functionality to that20:43
predictiveor something like it20:43
th1aAnyway, we're just getting warmed up to start dealing with curriculum and assessment.20:43
bskahanto what?20:43
predictivethat caldav20:43
predictiveunless it is and is just several pages down20:44
predictivewhat are you guys going to use for a interchange format generally20:44
predictiveor are you20:44
th1aOnce we get our curriculum model set up, we can look at how it can be tied into your stuff.20:44
predictivethere's a standard here called SIF that addresses letting different pieces of software like schedulers, curriculum, etc talk to each other20:45
th1aI know SIF well.20:45
th1aWe may do that someday...20:45
predictiveare you going that way, like writing a ZIS?20:45
predictiveyeah adam and I (my friend) have been playing with a zis prototype20:45
th1aWe would be an agent, I guess, or we'd have to write an agent.20:46
predictivebasic idea is easy, it's the hugenormous data model that sucks20:46
th1aA Python zis?20:46
th1aI'd like to see that.20:46
predictiveit's like made for twisted20:46
predictiveevent based spec20:46
th1aCan I see it?20:47
predictiveI'll ask adam, he wrote it for his school so we'd have to get permission from them20:47
predictivebut I'll find out20:47
th1aDoes it actually work?20:47
predictiveit's a teeny prototype20:47
predictivenothing to get excited over20:47
predictivefiguring out the interesting bits20:47
predictivefor instance20:48
th1aWell, I'm curious.20:48
predictivescalability over a large deployment20:48
th1aI went to a couple of SIF meetings a couple of years ago.20:48
predictivetwisted's pb looks like a potential solution20:48
predictiveyea I've looked at like parts of the spec that are interesting20:48
predictiveseems overdone like most edu specs I've seen20:49
th1aEnough to start understanding it, but then we decided it wasn't sufficiently relevant to the project I was working on.20:49
predictivewell if you're not in north america it's pretty useless20:49
th1aHaving worked on part of it, it seems impossible to not overdo that kind of spec.20:49
predictiveanyway I asked because it would be interesting to make a similar iinternationally oriented spec20:49
predictiveoh you did?20:49
predictivenovell is integrating zis functionality into dirxml too20:50
th1aWell, I sat at the table for several hours, nodded my head thoughtfully, and made a couple of suggestions.20:50
th1aSat there thinking "this should all be RDF."20:50
predictivebut RDF is all pull, whereas if I read the bits I read correctly20:51
predictiveit's more of a async notification deal where the zis is responsible for the managing of them20:51
predictiveI dunno RDF well though, I could be totally wrong20:52
th1aIf you're thinking about the data and not how you move it around, you'd want it to be RDF.20:52
th1aI need to take my wife to the beach.20:52
predictivegood plan20:52
predictivewell, great talking to you guys20:52
th1apredictive:  stay in touch.  let me know what's up with the zis.20:53
predictiveI'll pop in again when I'm close to having a useful deal to dl20:53
th1aCool.  Have a good one.20:53
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bskahanhave fun at the beach20:53
th1aI'll try.20:54
th1aI think I should buy a skimboard.20:54
* bskahan is a big fan of skimboards20:54
bskahanfor about 30 minutes20:54
th1a30 minutes once or 30 minutes periodically.20:55
bskahan30 minutes periodically20:55
bskahanvs. surfing which is entertaining for hours at a time20:56
bskahandamn, was trying to remember where this was20:56
bskahanthat's the simplest rest vs. xmlrpc I've found20:57
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