IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2005-02-15

*** Aiste has joined #schooltool00:01
*** SteveA has quit IRC00:23
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool00:26
*** Aiste has quit IRC01:07
*** SteveA has quit IRC01:12
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool01:24
*** jinty has quit IRC01:28
*** phlak has joined #schooltool01:47
*** phlak has left #schooltool01:47
*** hazmat_ has joined #schooltool02:08
*** hazmat has quit IRC02:24
*** d2m has quit IRC02:27
*** SteveA has quit IRC02:52
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool02:55
*** hazmat_ has quit IRC03:08
*** SteveA has quit IRC03:49
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool03:51
*** Deafcon has joined #schooltool04:28
*** Deafcon has left #schooltool04:47
*** SteveA has quit IRC05:18
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool05:21
*** SteveA has quit IRC06:13
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool06:21
*** bska|mobile has quit IRC06:45
*** SteveA has quit IRC07:41
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool07:44
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool08:44
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool08:49
*** SteveA has quit IRC08:54
*** SteveA_ is now known as SteveA08:54
*** Aiste has quit IRC09:02
*** d2m has joined #schooltool09:56
*** SteveA has quit IRC10:13
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool10:14
*** SteveA has quit IRC11:21
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool11:24
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool11:55
*** mgedmin has quit IRC11:57
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool12:20
*** SteveA has quit IRC12:22
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool12:39
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool12:59
*** SteveA has quit IRC14:05
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool14:16
mgedmin<srichter> btw, I just E-mailed Stuart about pytz inclusion14:42
mgedminwe can hope that zope 3.1 will come with pytz14:43
mgedminthat would simplify our dependencies14:43
*** Awayblia is now known as Workblia14:56
SteveAmgedmin: this helps out launchpad too, so I'm sure it will be okay.15:02
SteveAmgedmin: can you allow me to post to schooltool-dev as ?15:02
mgedminI guess so15:02
mgedminyou can also subscribe with that address and disable delivery15:02
SteveAgawd, i'm so lazy15:03
mgedminmailman's password is the same as for old lists, btw, so you have full access15:03
mgedmingaah, my mozilla forgot the password15:03
mgedmingaah, I forgot the password too15:04
mgedminok, I'm in15:05
mgedminwhere is that setting?15:05
mgedminSteveA, I approved your message and added you to the "accepts" filter15:06
*** faassen has joined #schooltool15:17
faassenhm..yesterday I tried to install a schoolbell into zope 3.15:20
faassenI could create an object and go to its scree.15:20
faassenit just didn't show anything, and I couldn't log in with my zope user.15:20
SteveAScree Scree (skr=e), n.15:22
SteveA   A pebble; a stone; also, a heap of stones or rocky d'ebris.15:22
faassenhmm (h/u/m), f.15:24
faassenA typical alchemist of the brown order on Tau Ceti IV.15:25
mgedminnew zope 3 with srichter's services branch merged?15:27
faassenwell, this was yesterday.15:28
faassentoday I did a svn up and I got plenty of new zope 3 out of it.15:28
* mgedmin nods15:28
faassenI did svn up schooltool, but you have zope 3 involved.15:28
mgedminI haven't tried it with the newest zope yet15:29
faassenI presume you're developing against z3 trunk..15:29
mgedminit is very likely that it is broken15:29
faassenwell, I just svn-ed schooltool and it got me a whole copy of z3.15:29
mgedminwe are, but srichter merget the branch last night at 2 am local time15:29
faassenif that is not the version of z3 you're developing against, what is it doing there? :)15:29
mgedminand we haven't caught up with it yet15:29
faassenokay, well, then *yesterday*, before he merged things..15:29
faassenit didn't work.15:29
faassenat least, I couln't make it to work.15:29
mgedminit didn't?15:29
faassenwhat happened is that I couldn't log in.15:30
mgedminnow that's interesting15:30
faassenI mean, i could create a schoolbell object.15:30
faassenI could go to its screen.15:30
faassenand then nothing.15:30
faassenI mean, I would see its screen.15:30
faassenbut there was nothing to do.15:30
mgedminI see15:30
mgedminif you had logged in as zope 3 manager, you would have been able to change things15:30
faassenwell, I did log in as zope 3 manager. :)15:30
faassenthere as a separate login screen in the bel thing.15:31
faassenbell thing.15:31
faassenand I tried logging in there, but it wouldn't let me in.15:31
mgedmincurrently schoolbell's login form is unable to authenticate zope 3 principals15:31
mgedminit only works with users that you defined within schoolbell15:31
faassenbut I couldn't. :)15:31
mgedminwhat browser do you use?15:31
faassenas I was not allowed to do anything. :)15:31
* faassen grins.15:31
mgedminI had some problems with earlier firefox versions and zwiki15:31
mgedminI use firefox 1.0 here too15:32
faassensometimes with z3 it gets somewhat confused in that I have to click around a bit after logging in to see my options.15:32
faassenbut I presumed that's a z3 issue.15:32
faassenI mean, with z3 after logging in, I still can't add stuff.15:32
mgedminbasic http auth is not nice, to put it politely15:32
faassenunless I reclick some stuff (say, the tree) and then sudenly the options show up.15:32
faassenwell, it typically works in zope 2..15:33
mgedminwell, in zope 3, you see index.html15:33
mgedminyou click login15:33
mgedminyou log in, and you still see index.html15:33
mgedminwhich is a read-only view15:33
mgedminwhen you click in the tree, you are redirected to contents.html15:33
faassenthat sounds like the effect.15:33
mgedminwhich has all sorts of options15:33
mgedminbut this is unrelated with your schoolbell problems15:33
faassenI wonder why logging in doesn't redirect you to that directly. :)15:33
faassenokay, that makes sense.15:33
mgedminso, when you log in into zope 3 as a manager, add a schoolbell, and go into it15:34
faassenI wasn't sure.15:34
faassenokay, well, I just did an svn up today, so I got the new z3.. hm..15:34
mgedminthe top right corner says that you're user this and that15:34
faassenand you're develping against trunk.15:34
faassenso it is hard for me to go back.15:34
mgedmindoes it say you are Sample Manager, or Unauthenticated Principal?15:34
faassenI think stephan tagged it.15:34
mgedminwell, you can 'cd Zope3 && svn up -r 29081'15:35
mgedminand it will work until you run svn up again15:35
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool15:35
mgedminthis, of course, is a temporary measure15:36
faassenchecking out taht tag.15:36
mgedminwe will make schoolbell work with the latest zope 3 Real Soon Now15:36
faassenokay, I'm getting the before services tag thingy.15:36
faassenyou mean the latest release?15:36
faassenI don't know how your' planning on a schoolbell release next month when you're developing against z3 trunk..15:36
* mgedmin sighs15:36
mgedminzope x3 3.1 was supposed to be released what, on January?15:37
faassenzope *never* makes the promised release.15:37
mgedminback in December we decided to track Zope 3 trunk until 3.1 is released, and then stay with 3.115:37
mgedminnow it's too difficult to go back to 3.015:37
*** SteveA has quit IRC15:37
faassenyou should've talked to me, I could've told you it'd never happen. :)15:37
*** SteveA_ is now known as SteveA15:37
faassenzope 2.8 was going to be released in january or something, *last year*.15:37
faassenthen in june.15:37
mgedminyou could have used your powers of prescience and told us without asking ;)15:37
faassenwell, no, I only know Zope release policy.15:38
faassenwhich is "say you release at X, act surprised when Martijn questions whether that will happen, and then don't release at X"15:38
mgedmindid you try not asking questions? :-)15:39
faassenthat was december 2003.15:40
* SteveA blames the PSU15:41
faassenheh, just reread this15:46
faassenof course I was off by my release planning for Five too. :)15:46
faassenanyway, zope 3.1 release willb e delayed due to the merging of the blow services thingy.15:47
faassenanyway, I need some opinions..15:47
faassenI'm working on a project to build calendaring functionality for Zope 2 using Five.15:47
faassenand then there's schoolbell which is doing the same thing.15:48
faassenbut for zope 3.15:48
faassenand it seems like such a duplication of effort. :(15:49
faassenmgedmin: to get back to your question, it says 'Sample Manager'15:51
faassenoh, wait, there is an actions menu.15:51
faassenperhaps I was all deluded yesterday.15:51
faassensidebar blindness? :)15:51
faassenbut where is the calendar?15:52
faassenoh, it exists for a person.15:53
faassencool, I added an event.15:54
*** faassen has left #schooltool15:55
*** faassen has joined #schooltool15:55
faassenwhoops. accidentally closed this. annoying thing.15:55
faassenanyway, any opinions on whether pieces of your code would be reusable in Five?15:59
mgedmineveryone wants to talk to me!15:59
faassensorry. :)15:59
faassenmgedmin: it's because you're a cool hacker, that's why!15:59
mgedminno problem, but latency might be bad16:00
mgedminfaassen, I'm not sure16:00
mgedminI'd be very happy if it schoolbell was usable with Five16:01
mgedminbut we cannot afford development time to make that happen16:01
mgedminI haven't looked at Five yet16:01
faassenI have development time.16:01
mgedmindoes it have annotations?16:01
faassenso that's not the issue.16:01
faassenthe issue is the following.16:01
faassenannotations, haven't tested them yet but ought to work.16:02
faassensince there's a ZODB and adapters work.16:02
mgedminwe want schoolbell.calendar and schoolbell.relationship to be reusable Zope 3 packages16:02
faassenthe problem is however that the project I'm on has an even earlier deadline than schoolbell.16:02
faassenI just see it as such a waste of effort to develop this functionality twice.16:02
faassenanyway, I have no idea how hard porting things over to Five would be.16:03
faassenit'd be a gamble.16:03
* faassen sighs.16:03
* mgedmin sighs too16:06
faassenhow much of schoolbell/calendar/README.txt is scifi at the moment?16:06
*** th1a has quit IRC16:07
mgedminREADME.txt should be up-to-date16:07 contains scifi16:07
mgedminbasically, schoolbell needs small persistent calendar and calendar event classes16:08
mgedminand browser views16:08
mgedminto be usable without schoolbell.app16:08
mgedminbasically, schoolbell.calendar needs small persistent calendar and calendar event classes16:08
faassenquite interesting.16:09
mgedmindownsides: no timezone support, no all-day-events, calendar events are immutable which makes calendar modifications interesting (the dance with removeEvent, addEvent and event.replace(...))16:09
* faassen nods.16:10
faassenokay, timezone support is still missing from this app and no requirement, too.16:10
faassenfor now.16:10
mgedminanother possible downside: schoolbell.calendar currently is GPL, although, I believe, there are plans to use a more liberal licence16:10
faassen(and we'll gain it when you add it)16:10
*** regebro has joined #schooltool16:10
faassenGPL is fine for this project.16:10
regebroHi all!16:10
faassenregebro: mgedmin is who I'm talking to.16:10
faassenLennart, meet Marius, and vice versa.16:10
regebroHi Marius!16:10
mgedminhi, regebro16:11
faassenanyway, mgedmin just said this:16:11
faassen(15:11:46) mgedmin: downsides: no timezone support, no all-day-events, calendar events are immutable which makes calendar modifications interesting (the dance with removeEvent, addEvent and event.replace(...))16:11
faassenregebro is interested in how storage independence works.16:11
mgedminyou write your own calendar class, basically16:11
mgedminthat implements ICalendar, or, more usefully, IEditCalendar interface16:11
mgedminthere are mixins available so that you don't have to implement expansion of recurring events etc.16:12
mgedmincalendar composition, reading/writing to iCalendar are also available externally16:12
faassenyou need to implement ICalendarEvent too, right?16:12
mgedminunless nonpersistent SimpleCalendarEvent suits you16:12
*** gintas has joined #schooltool16:13
mgedminschoolbell.calendar was started at ubuntu's mataro conference16:13
mgedminI added some simple calendars to launchpad with uses sqlobject for persistence16:13
faassenokay, that is a good proof of concept.16:13
regebroWell there is one problem with that for us.16:14
regebroWe want to have several participants/attendees on one event.16:14
regebroTherefore we want to have the events stored centrally, even if the events are stored in the ZODB.16:15
regebroBut they should of course appear in the calendar, as if they are objects in the calendar, and they should be displayable with Zope3 schemas.16:16
mgedminyou are not limited to one class of calendar events16:16
mgedminyou could compute read-only calendars on the fly based on some source16:16
regebroNo, but the calendars events should always come from a central store, and the calendar should be unaware of where they are stored.16:17
mgedmincalendar *views* should be unaware16:17
mgedmincalendars *implement* storage16:17
gintasI suppose that you can solve all these problems with a custom Calendar implementation, if I understand you correctly16:17
regebroI don't agree.16:17
faassenwait, wait, what are the goals here?16:18
mgedmine.g. in launchpad, Calendar.addEvent creates a new row in the table and fills it with attributes from its argument, which is usually a nonpersistent SimpleCalendarEvent16:18
faassenI mean, I don't understand what the end goals are.16:18
* mgedmin too16:18
faassenthere are usually multiple ways to accomplish something, I'm trying to figure out what we're trying to accomplish first..16:19
regebro1. Storage independance. I'm currently pondering if we want to have different storages for different calendars in one site. I'm not sure.16:21
mgedmindo you want to have a calendar with events combined from different sources16:21
regebroAn now I am sure, yest we must be able to do that.16:21
regebroI'm not sure if we need calendars with events from different sources, though. Probably, but I'm not sure.16:22
faassenregebro: is that a question of being allowed to combine the information into a single calendar from different sources.16:22
faassenregebro: I mean, multiple storages seems to me implementation dependent, right?16:22
faassenregebro: are there sites already that have multiple storages that we need to expose as one calendar?16:22
regebroThat question is a valid question, which I haven't really thought about before.16:22
mgedminif you want storage independence, you need to abstract the storage into some component16:22
mgedminschoolbell.calendar says that this component implements ICalendar or IEditCalendar16:23
mgedminif you want to combine events from different storages16:23
mgedminyou can use calendar composition16:23
regebroOK, second try of requirements:16:23
regebro1. storage independance. Different calendars need different storages (withing the same site). We probably do not need different storages for one calendar (that opens up a can of worms I don't want tohave).16:24
regebro2. Every event needs to have multiple participants. Each partcipant needs a separate workflow state.16:25
mgedmin(2) is somewhat tricky16:25
mgedminadding additional attributes that are not declared in ICalendarEvent is tricky16:25
mgedmin(due to storage independence)16:25
faassencouldn't that be solved with a relation?16:26
regebro3. We want to use Zope3 schemasn for editing events.16:26
mgedmine.g. iCalendar conversion code won't know anything about those16:26
faassenI mean, if you have a unique identifier per event, can't you keep participant information alternatively? or is this part of the storage model?16:26
regebro3b. and forms.16:26
regebro4. We also need notifications, but we get that for free if we use DCWorkflow for the workflow part.16:27
regebroThat's it, really,16:27
faassenICalendarEvents have schema information.16:27
faassenthough since ICalendarEvents are immutable, that's icky.16:27
regebrooh, and 2b: Changing the event obviously should change it for each participant, meaning the data needs to be stored centrally,16:27
mgedminI want to make ICalendarEvents mutable16:27
mgedmininitially they were immutable, hashable, and stored in sets16:28
faassenmgedmin: that should make using schema/forms possible, right?16:28
mgedminnow they are just immutable16:28
mgedminactually, using schema/forms is possible now16:28
mgedminalthough not very straightforward16:28
faassenokay, should make ti straightforward. :)16:28
mgedminlaunchpad's new calendar event form uses schemas and forms16:28
faassenso this adding participants to an event.16:29
faassenthis participant information, does it need to be in the storage-independent backend or not?16:29
regebroThe workflow state does not need to, but may be stored there.16:30
faassenI mean, does it get to be stored in the same backend as the event info, or can it be stored in, say, the ZODB?16:30
regebroSo I think it's easier to assume that it always is.16:30
faassendepends, I don't know how far the icalendar model goes, for instance.16:30
regebroI'm pretty sure iCalendar has some sort of status.16:30
faassenand you're going to need information outside of the backend eventually, anyway, I suspect, for things like authorization and the like.16:30
faassenwell, i fyou keep workflow state in the backend, if something else changes the workflow state, the zope catalog is not going to be updated anyway, right?16:31
regebroI'm not sure I follow you...16:32
faassenI mea,n if you go through the backend to manipulate that state, through an icalendar client.16:32
faassenzope's catalog isn't going to be kept up to date automatically.16:32
regebroTrue, that needs to be a task for the backend implementation.16:32
faassenso storing workflow info in the independent backend is of limited utility until that kind of stuff is resolved.16:32
faassenand if you didn't store it in the backend, it'd be easier to implement a backend.16:32
mgedminby the way, in old schooltool versions we had some extra data stored in calendar events that was not representable in icalendar16:33
regebroYes, but since somebackends store it, it's easier if all do.16:33
faassenregebro: I don't know whether that follows. :)16:34
mgedminour icalendar write view was clever enough to find the original event by UID, compare it with the new version, and only change things that were actually changed16:34
regebroOtherwise, you need to somehow differentiate between backends that store workflow state and bckends that don't.16:35
mgedminit is my vision that you can use many different calendar and calendar classes in one application16:36
mgedminsome details haven't been worked out yet, though16:36
regebroSure, but why not just let all backends handel it, instead of letting both backends AND everything else handle it?16:36
faassenregebro: that sounds like a good argument.16:36
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool16:36
faassenanyway, right now..schoolbell has only a single participant per event, or how should I see this?16:37
mgedminI do not think schoolbell has any participants per event16:37
faassenbut events exist for users?16:38
regebroThat's why you get away with not having a central storage. ;)16:38
mgedminI think I understand16:38
mgedminyou want to indicate that persons A, B, and C participate in this event16:38
mgedminand have the event appear in calendars of A, B and C16:38
mgedminbut be stored only once, so that modifications are visible to all of them16:38
* regebro gets coffee16:39
mgedminmutable events would help16:39
* mgedmin pauses16:39
mgedminactually, is there anything that prevents events from being mutable16:40
mgedminother than a message in the docstring?16:40
regebroI have no idea how to make anything unmutable, so don't ask me. :-)16:42
regebroI mean, immutable.16:42
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:42
faassenwell, immutable is just a convention.16:44
regebroIn my current implementation, I don't have different calendar types,16:44
faassenth1a: hey.16:44
regebrobut instead I connect them to different storage objects in the portal_calendar tool.16:44
regebroThe benefit being that you can have different instances with different settinsg for the same type of backend.16:44
regebroOther than that, there is little conceptual difference, I think.16:46
regebroHaving different calendar types makes it easier to determine what kind of events you can create. Does the backend have support for recurring events, for example...16:47
regebroBut, now I'm thinking that maybe this is a bad idea. For example, what happens if you need to mix different types of calendar storages?16:49
regebroHow do you set up a meeting between people, whos calendars are stored in Kolab, in a room, whose calendar is stored in Zodb?16:50
faassendo you need that as a practical use case?16:50
faassenyou said before you need to be able to support multiple calendar backends in one site.16:50
faassenI'm still not clear on why.16:50
regebroNot just now. But can we avoid it altogether? That needs to be discussed. If we can, it makes things simpler.16:51
faassenI think having multiple backends getting to the realm of multiple sites cooperating.16:51
faassenwhat's the main use case for the storage independence?16:51
faassenI mean, why isn't it good enough to store the information in the ZODB?16:51
regebroWell, we have one "mixing" usecase. But that's simpler: That's inviting people whos calendar we have no access to at all, but instead just want to send an email to.16:52
regebroThe storage independance is so that people can use a groupware server, and still get their calendar on the intranet. I think.16:52
regebroIf we for the moment assume that we do not need several storages/backends on one site, things get easier.16:56
faassenmgedmin: still around?16:59
regebroOne question is if you are interested in hveing support for multiple participants per event (let's just call that meetings ;)).17:03
regebroBecause meeting support will probably complicate things (unless somebody can come up with an ultra-clever solution), and...17:03
mgedminyes, eventually17:03
regebro...we need it now.17:03
mgedminwe do want resource booking in schoolbell.app17:03
mgedminwhich is like an event with multiple participants17:03
faassenwell, now -> eventually can be bridged by branching or whatever.17:03
mgedminexcept that one participant is a person and all others are resources17:04
mgedminbut the same event is visible in the calendars of all participants17:04
regebroyes, exactly, we handle resources and partciciants the same way too.17:04
faassenmgedmin: how do you determine 'all participants' if some are resources?17:04
faassenmgedmin: ooh, wait..participants can be resources or people, so you have an agenda for a resource.17:04
faassenfaassen: like, a room?17:05
faassenmgedmin: like, a room?17:05
regebroA setting/type/somthing on the calendar.17:05
faassencan you give examples?17:05
regebrofaassen, Well, our old calendars has a calendar_type attribute.17:06
regebroWhich can be "personal" mening it's a persons calendar, or "whatever else" which puts itinto a group.17:06
regebroDefault "whatever elses" are room, resource, group, workspace.17:06
mgedminin schoolbell, all persons, groups and resources have calendars17:06
mgedmina resource's calendar shows when the resource is booked17:07
mgedmin(this hasn't been ported to the new zope3-based schoolbell yet, btw)17:07
faassenokay, I think I understand resource-participants.17:07
faassenand having a calendar for a resource makes sense.17:08
faassenI guess in schoolbell this isn't modelled with a multiple-participant calendar now?17:08
faassenI mean, multiple participant event.17:08
mgedminnew schoolbell does not support resource booking yet17:09
mgedminold schoolbell had a limitation of "one person + one resource" per event17:09
faassenso if you were to support it, you could model it as participants.17:09
mgedminand stored these in ICalendarEvent attributes17:09
* mgedmin nods17:09
mgedminthere is an idea of using schoolbell.relationship to express resource bookings17:09
mgedminwe could do the same to get multiple participants17:10
* faassen nods.17:10
faassenI figured you'd use relationships for that. what are they used for now?17:10
faassenI mean, I thought you'd already use them for that.17:10
faassenbut if not, what are you using them for?17:10
*** alga has quit IRC17:10
regebroI guess you could have a Realtionship link between the event and every participant.17:12
regebroMakes it tricky with non-calendar participants, though, but there are several ways to solve that.17:12
mgedminrelationships are now used to implement group memberships17:13
mgedminand calendar subscriptions (in old schoolbell)17:13
regebroGroup events has been requested by a customer. It's not a priority though.17:15
*** SteveA has quit IRC17:15
*** SteveA has joined #schooltool17:17
th1afaassen:  Relationships will have more significance in later SchoolTool functionality.17:30
faassenth1a: okay.17:37
th1aIf SchoolBell seems overdesigned in some places that's why.17:38
SteveAwe'll get relationships into Interfaces some day17:44
SteveAchatted about this with jim and ben saller at the castle sprint17:44
SteveAben has some nice ideas about this17:44
mgedminSteveA, have you and ben looked at schoolbell.relationships README.txt?17:47
mgedminwhat do you think?17:47
mgedmin(about it, I mean)17:47
SteveAi think i need to get on with this cape town business17:54
th1aWow.  On my G4 laptop, I get 1419 tests in 482 seconds.  On a dual G5 it does them in 49 seconds.18:27
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool18:36
*** thisfred has quit IRC18:41
*** SteveA has quit IRC18:41
*** mgedmin has quit IRC18:56
faassenth1a: any difference between Mac OS X versions?18:56
faassenth1a: I noticed Mac OS X is/was extremely slow for some small file accesses that tend to be common during test running.18:56
th1aWell, I guess the G5 is running OS X Server.  Yeah.  The tests run particularly slow on this laptop.18:57
*** th1a has quit IRC19:01
*** Aiste has quit IRC19:05
*** gintas has quit IRC19:18
*** regebro has quit IRC19:23
*** tvon has joined #schooltool19:32
*** tvon has quit IRC19:43
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool19:51
*** SteveA_ has quit IRC20:25
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool20:27
*** faassen has left #schooltool20:31
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool20:36
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool21:13
*** th1a has joined #schooltool21:23
*** SteveA_ has quit IRC21:51
*** SteveA_ has joined #schooltool21:54
*** gintas has joined #schooltool22:12
*** SteveA_ has quit IRC22:21
*** gintas has quit IRC23:33
*** Aiste has quit IRC23:43
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool23:53

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!