IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-02-11

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jintybtw: python-tz is sitting in the new que for debian. It is out of my hands now. Though there might be someone at cannonical who can expidite matters.01:00
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tvonK, so it had been suggested to me that there was a better way of doing the dublin core than the mixin, but if there is I haven't found it19:49
tvonthat said, should I create an interface for mixin classes?19:49
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mgedmintvon, could you be more specific?19:53
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tvonmgedmin: in my mail to the list about zopedublincore, I had an interface defined for the mixin class19:59
mgedminI'm not sure such a mixin is a good idea20:00
tvonah, okay20:00
mgedminthe question is: is 'title' data or metadata20:00
mgedminor both?20:01
tvonin most cases I think it's both20:01
* mgedmin nods20:01
th1aIn the abstract, it's metadata.20:01
mgedminin that case I tend to think that there should be a regular 'title' attribute20:01
mgedminon an object20:01
mgedminwithout any magic20:02
mgedminand if we want the same title to be accessible as DC metadata20:02
mgedminthen there should be an adapter that provides IZopeDublinCore for this object20:02
mgedminproxies the 'title' attribute directly to context20:02
mgedminand uses the "standard" annotatable dublin core adapter to proxy all other attributes20:03
mgedminbut I might be wrong in this20:03
mgedmin(I have never actually done that)20:03
th1aI'm a little dubious.20:03
mgedminyour approach was the exact opposite20:03
mgedminand perhaps it is simpler20:03
mgedminalthough it adds an extra requirement to the content object20:04
mgedminyou can no longer use that component without metadata20:04
mgedminand I think unit tests become more difficult, because you cannot use the components without setting up IZopeDublinCore adapters20:04
* mgedmin shrugs20:04
mgedmindo we need zope dublin core for schoolbell's content objects?20:05
tvonneed? I don't think so20:06
th1aMulling this over...20:10
th1aDublin Core is for content objects, and applications aren't content objects.20:11
th1aapplication objects, that is.20:11
* mgedmin thinks20:12
mgedminif things that can be added to a Zope 3 Folder are content objects20:12
mgedminthen the top 'SchoolBellApplication' object is a content object20:12
mgedminthis is starting to smell like philosophy...20:13
th1aThey are philosophical questions that are very important to SchoolTool, actually.20:13
th1aBy content object I guess I'm thinking of an artifact, like a document, photo, etc.20:14
th1aThose are the things Dublin Core was intended for.20:14
* mgedmin nods20:15
th1aI mean, you can say the dc:creator for mgedmin is his parents, but that's not really the intent.20:16
mgedminit could be useful, though20:16
mgedmin"who added this group to the system?"20:16
mgedminand "when"20:16
tvon"content" can be anything really20:16
mgedminall persons/groups/resources are IAttributeAnnotatable20:17
mgedminso they get DC metadata for free20:17
tvonI tend to consider it to be anything that can be added, manipulated and removed from the system20:17
th1aI dunno.20:17
th1aI think stretching it too far can introduce more confusion than clarity.20:17
th1aThe dc:creator isn't the user who added an object, it is the person who created it.20:18
th1aAlso, explicit is better than implicit.20:18
tvonthe metadata is on the object in the system though, not wha the object represents outside of the system20:19
tvoner, "what"20:19
th1aNot in my opinion.20:20
th1aThe metadata about a book in a library system is about the book itself, not the entry in the database.20:20
tvonthis is true20:21
th1aIn the long run, I think it is important to handle a lot of stuff like metadata rather than data.20:24
th1aFor example, I think it is important to think of grades as being metadata attached to the work, rather than data standing on its own.20:24
th1aA grade for an individual assignment, specifically.20:25
tvonmetadata makes my head hurt20:27
th1aWell, I don't think we need to treat the title and description of application objects as Dublin Core, so that should make your head feel better.20:28
* mgedmin just realized that "application object" became an ambiguous term20:31
mgedminwere you referring to ISchoolBellApplication objects, or IPerson/IGroup/IResource objects? or both?20:32
th1aI was just thinking about IPerson/IGroup/IResource.20:32
th1aWhereas we're really worried about events here, aren't we?20:33
th1aCalendar events.20:33
tvonI've mostly been thinking about person/group/resource.. it applies to events too thogh20:33
mgedminare we?20:33
algametadiscussions on metadata20:34
th1aI don't think DC applies to events.20:35
algaIf we are not a CMS, is DC relevant at all?20:36
th1aNot generally.20:37
algaguys, what do you think about a (marker) interface for all schoolbell objects?21:14
th1aWhat do you mean?21:14
algait would be handy to register the menu views, ACL, login, logout, etc21:14
algaa common interface that all the objects under SchoolBellApplication would implement21:15
algaright now we have several views registered for *21:15
algabut they break if you call them on a non-schoolbell object21:16
* mgedmin considers this21:17
mgedminthese views are defined for the schoolbell skin only, right?21:18
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algathat's an ideaa22:04
algaI missed that in fact22:04
* mgedmin adding event.description support to icalendar code23:26
algaare you sure you're not eating Etria's lunch?23:40
th1aIt appears so.23:42
mgedminI was tying up loose ends in schoolbell.calendaring.icalendar23:43
mgedminand there was a TODO23:43
mgedminrelax, it was something like 5 minutes of work23:43
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