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| th1a | mgedmin: I just sent out responses to your comments about the proposal. | 17:30 |
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| *mgedmin just got back from lunch | 18:01 | |
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| Aiste | th1a: btw it is impossible to find any references to schooltool mailing list on the schooltool.org website | 18:11 |
| Aiste | at least on the top pages | 18:11 |
| th1a | OK. I can make it clearer. | 18:12 |
| Aiste | I was looking for it and had to use google :) | 18:12 |
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| th1a | Sometimes I get more wrapped up in organization than navigation. | 18:19 |
| alga | Hi Tom | 18:23 |
| alga | I completely failed to understand what you meant re. "A timetable edit view" story, which you said was misnamed | 18:24 |
| alga | I imagined it was about walking up to a group and editing that group's timetable alone | 18:25 |
| alga | that is a web equivalent of a restive timetable view | 18:26 |
| th1a | Does it make sense now? | 18:26 |
| alga | Not really | 18:26 |
| th1a | Ha! | 18:27 |
| alga | do you want a simple view for adding/removing a person to/from subject groups? | 18:27 |
| th1a | Ok. Let me see... | 18:27 |
| th1a | Well, think in terms of the use case, which perhaps I haven't made sufficiently clear. | 18:27 |
| th1a | I've got a new student in my school, and I want to set up a schedule for him or her. | 18:28 |
| alga | mhm | 18:28 |
| th1a | I just want to see a list of the periods and which classes meet those periods. | 18:28 |
| th1a | Pick which classes to add him or her to. | 18:28 |
| th1a | In effect, I'm adding the student to several groups at once. | 18:28 |
| alga | just add, not remove? ok | 18:29 |
| th1a | Well... An editing equivalent would be desirable, too. | 18:29 |
| th1a | Which would have to remove the student from their previous group. | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | th1a: do you imagine the user interface for this story? | 18:30 |
| mgedmin | perhaps you could describe it to us? | 18:30 |
| th1a | Just a table with a row for each period and a drop down list of classes meeting in a period next to the name of the period. | 18:31 |
| th1a | There's an endless amount of elaboration we may add later on, but I just want something minimal for now. | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | it might get interesting, in the engineering sense of that word | 18:34 |
| alga | difficult | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | suppose you have a "Math for group X" class | 18:34 |
| th1a | What are the issues? | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | that meet on Mondays during periods P1 and P5 | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | now in this new view you select "Math for group X" for period P1 | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | this implies that the same class will also occur during P5 | 18:35 |
| th1a | Ah. OK. | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | but the UI does not immediatelly reflect that | 18:35 |
| th1a | Right. | 18:35 |
| th1a | Well, maybe we need a new pageload after each change. | 18:35 |
| th1a | Or some Javascript. | 18:35 |
| th1a | But let's keep it simple. | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | that's why we say it is tricky | 18:36 |
| th1a | I can deal with a new pageload for each add. | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | in general, is there a set of classes that a student is supposed to take? | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | e.g. always take Math 101 | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | but you may choose between 3 sections of Math 101 that meet on different periods | 18:37 |
| th1a | That's a whole different kettle of fish. | 18:37 |
| th1a | I don't want to get into that yet. | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | ok | 18:37 |
| th1a | I understand that the complete version of this task takes weeks. | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | I don't suppose you'd be happy with a list of checkboxes for subject groups | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | and a "Preview" button that would show you the timetable | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | composed from the groups that you've checked | 18:38 |
| th1a | Subject groups? | 18:39 |
| th1a | Like "Math?" | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | I meant those groups that represent classes | 18:39 |
| alga | "Math for 5-years" | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | or "Math for the 3rd section of 5th graders" | 18:39 |
| alga | right | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | if there are different groups of 5th graders that have Math at different times | 18:40 |
| th1a | I don't want the system to be making decisions about which section a student should be put in at this point. | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | I do not know if I use the word "section" correctly | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | let me see if I get everything straight | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | at this point you already have a whole-school timetable | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | that is, teachers already know things like "on Mondays during period 1 I teach Math 101 in room 456" | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | and now you want to assign students to those classes | 18:42 |
| th1a | Yes. To specific classes. | 18:44 |
| th1a | Not "Jimmy needs Math 101." But "Jimmy is in Mr. Hoffman's period 5 Math 101." | 18:45 |
| alga | ok | 18:45 |
| alga | do you think this functionality would be used often? | 18:45 |
| th1a | This version is a little bit of a placeholder, but it seems to me to be something I need to make SchoolTool look like it could actually be used. | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | ok | 18:47 |
| th1a | One of the first things a person would ask is "How do I edit a student's schedule." | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | ok | 18:47 |
| th1a | Now, doing this for the whole school in an efficient manner will be a whole contract in iteself. | 18:47 |
| mgedmin | around here student's don't have individual timetables | 18:47 |
| th1a | Ah! | 18:47 |
| th1a | Ok. | 18:48 |
| mgedmin | students are grouped into forms, and every form has its own timetable | 18:48 |
| alga | ? | 18:48 |
| th1a | Right! We still mostly think in terms of industrial efficiency. | 18:48 |
| th1a | Although US schools are moving somewhat in your direction. | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | alga: "form 5a" -- at least that's how my English teacher used to translate "klasė" | 18:49 |
| alga | ok ok, I know what the word means | 18:49 |
| th1a | I think "form" is more UK usage. | 18:49 |
| th1a | I mean, I don't really even know exactly what it means. | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | do you have an equivalent in the UK? | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | err, US | 18:49 |
| th1a | Well, I'm not sure... | 18:50 |
| th1a | Someone would have to tell me! | 18:50 |
| th1a | I guess it sounds like our "teams." | 18:50 |
| th1a | How many students in a form? | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | about 20 | 18:51 |
| th1a | Ah. We have teams of 70 - 90 who share the same set of teachers. | 18:51 |
| th1a | I understand your confusion now. | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | all 5th graders are split into several forms -- 5a, 5b, 5c ... | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | and they all have the same set of classed by the same set of teachers | 18:52 |
| th1a | There is a really great book which compares the structure of the US and German armies in WW2 which is helpful in understanding the differences in the way we organize social institutions. | 18:52 |
| th1a | Even though you're not German. | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | going back to the system | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | if a student is a member of a group | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | this adds a set of classes, all taught by the same teacher, to the student's schedule | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | the classes are all for the same subject (Mr. Hoffman's Math for 5th graders) | 18:54 |
| th1a | Oh jeez. | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | what? | 18:54 |
| th1a | So *that's* how it works now? | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | more or less | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | on a lower level there are just groups, timetables, and timetable composition | 18:55 |
| th1a | OK. I suppose that clears up some of my confusion... | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | on a higher level we have a school timetable view | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | that lets you conveniently edit a number of timetables for several groups at once | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | currently if some 5th graders have Math by Mr. Hoffman on Mondays and Wednesdays, and other 5th graders have Math by Mr. Hoffman on Tuesdays and Fridays, that implies two different groups with two different timetables but with the same teacher | 18:57 |
| th1a | It seemed like there was a conceptual gap in the process that I could never put my finger on. | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | you could have groups that have only 1 event in the timetable | 18:58 |
| th1a | Right. | 18:58 |
| mgedmin | and then you have the greatest freedom to mix and match classes | 18:58 |
| mgedmin | you could have a 'Mr. Hoffman's Math on Monday P1' etc. | 18:58 |
| th1a | That would be the case 99% of the time in US K-12 schools. | 18:58 |
| th1a | Well, secondary schoolos. | 18:58 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure if having that many classes would be convenient for the user, though | 18:58 |
| th1a | Your model works for primary in the US. | 18:59 |
| th1a | Yeah, we'd have "forms" in primary. | 18:59 |
| alga | well, we tried to make the model as general as possible | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | the underlying primitives are pretty flexible | 19:00 |
| th1a | I know. I'm sure we can work it out. | 19:00 |
| th1a | I'm just glad I've finally realized what has been confusing me about the scheduling process. | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | you do not have to follow this one-group-for-one-(teacher,subject,year,section)-tuple | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | you could just edit the pupil's individual timetables | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | in every time slot you can have any activity that is described as a free-form string | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | the advantage of using timetable-composition is that you can generate both student's timetables and teacher's timetables from one set of data | 19:01 |
| th1a | Groups with one event on the timetable is the way to go. | 19:02 |
| alga | Hm, the confusing thing is that all these internal groups are prominent in the UI | 19:03 |
| alga | Maybe we want to put all them into some special place? | 19:04 |
| alga | Like group 'Timetabling groups' | 19:04 |
| alga | Well, anyway, it is up to the sample data | 19:04 |
| th1a | Well, group organization is the other tough issue I'd like to make some headway on. | 19:05 |
| th1a | I do think we need to make a more treelike hierarchy of groups. | 19:06 |
| th1a | It needs to be more navigable. | 19:06 |
| alga | Well, we had a tree in the wx client | 19:07 |
| th1a | Right. | 19:07 |
| alga | we can make a tree on the web, if needed | 19:07 |
| alga | but that's a separate story | 19:08 |
| th1a | Yeah, but the underlying structure could be more of a coherent tree. | 19:08 |
| alga | OK, so the story could be 'Preparing a script for more coherent sample data' | 19:08 |
| mgedmin | since we haven't actually ever had the chance to administer schools, we would love to get any suggestions in this area | 19:08 |
| th1a | Right -- new story. | 19:09 |
| alga | Tom, we have this generate-sampleschool script | 19:09 |
| alga | probably you could take a dab on it yourself? | 19:09 |
| alga | It just generates CSV files for people | 19:09 |
| th1a | Well... that's not quite my point. | 19:09 |
| th1a | This is in reference to my "members of a group are limited to the members of the immediate parent group" idea. | 19:10 |
| alga | hmmm | 19:10 |
| th1a | So the root group includes every application object in the system. | 19:10 |
| mgedmin | no | 19:11 |
| mgedmin | the root group usually only includes some other groups | 19:11 |
| mgedmin | it is the root of the group tree | 19:11 |
| th1a | Well... I'm suggesting a change. | 19:11 |
| mgedmin | oh, I started reading at the wrong place | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | sorry ;) | 19:12 |
| th1a | No problem. | 19:12 |
| alga | hm, we could create a facet for a group that enforces this behaviour | 19:12 |
| alga | and maybe make a way of putting it on by default | 19:12 |
| th1a | You're right that turning this off would be a good idea. | 19:13 |
| th1a | Being able to. | 19:13 |
| alga | this way, root group and a couple of other groups would not have this constraint | 19:13 |
| alga | but you might make other groups, like | 19:13 |
| th1a | But right now the structure is so free form and fluid that it imposes a big burden on the user to create a coherent structure. | 19:13 |
| alga | Pupils/5 years/Group 3 | 19:13 |
| alga | which would follow this pattern | 19:14 |
| alga | and Root would contain just Pupils, Teachers, Managers, Resources | 19:14 |
| th1a | Well... the administrator will need to be able to create other root level groups. | 19:15 |
| th1a | That combine those things. | 19:15 |
| alga | ok, that's the idea | 19:15 |
| th1a | So objects will still exist in multiple points in the tree. | 19:15 |
| alga | Except groups :-) | 19:16 |
| alga | groups form a tree, no loops | 19:16 |
| th1a | Right. | 19:16 |
| alga | though diamons are possible... | 19:16 |
| alga | a group cannot be a transitive member of itself | 19:17 |
| alga | but it can have several parent groups | 19:17 |
| alga | ok, sorry for the digression | 19:17 |
| alga | So, would it suffice if we made it a checkbox on the group admin page: this group is a restricted group? | 19:18 |
| th1a | No. I'm thinking that this would be something that would be configured globally, probably in the config file. | 19:18 |
| alga | OK, if it is a CSV import file, we almost have it :-) | 19:19 |
| alga | what if it is specified in the CSV import file, and the checkbox? :-) | 19:20 |
| th1a | Wait, am I on crack or do we have a config file for the server? | 19:21 |
| alga | well, we do, but it only specifies things like ports, filenames, etc | 19:21 |
| th1a | OK. So it wouldn't be appropriate to put it there. | 19:22 |
| alga | well, if we need a global config option, that's the place | 19:22 |
| alga | but I don't see how such an option would be useful | 19:22 |
| th1a | Anyhow... you're probably right. | 19:22 |
| th1a | At least for the moment. Make it a checkbox, with the restriction "on" by default. | 19:23 |
| th1a | Except for the root group, etc. | 19:23 |
| alga | a checkbox on the admin page? add page? | 19:25 |
| alga | what about the sampleschool? somebody has to reorder it to conform | 19:26 |
| th1a | On the group's add page. I guess the manager will have to be able to turn it on and off. | 19:26 |
| th1a | I'm getting the impression you want me to do it :-) OK. | 19:26 |
| alga | will RESTive API be enough ;-) ? | 19:26 |
| alga | no, I'm just probing what needs to be done | 19:27 |
| th1a | That's not what I was thinking. It will be less work to just enable it globally. | 19:27 |
| th1a | Which would be ok with me. | 19:28 |
| alga | ok, do you have and idea how should the sample data look? | 19:28 |
| alga | if you made those CSVs by hand, we copy the scheme in the script | 19:28 |
| alga | I no verb :) | 19:29 |
| th1a | What's the question? | 19:30 |
| alga | Can you produce an example of sample data so we could write a script that generates data like that? | 19:31 |
| th1a | I'd rather write a script myself. | 19:33 |
| alga | OK | 19:33 |
| alga | Now, the story in the proposal is wrong | 19:34 |
| th1a | Sure. | 19:34 |
| alga | we were thinking of different things. | 19:34 |
| th1a | Do you want to take a crack at the changes or shall I? | 19:34 |
| alga | that's what I wanted to ask :-) | 19:35 |
| th1a | Um... | 19:35 |
| th1a | OK, so we've got "Setting super-groups" which seems ok. | 19:39 |
| th1a | And "Restricting group membership" which needs more detail. | 19:39 |
| th1a | Right? | 19:40 |
| alga | right | 19:41 |
| th1a | And the recurring events requirement should pretty much dictate emulating the Mozilla interface. | 19:42 |
| alga | yes | 19:42 |
| alga | and the 'user timetable groups setup view' | 19:44 |
| alga | instead of 'single timetable edit view' | 19:45 |
| th1a | I think you should describe that one. | 19:47 |
| alga | OK | 19:47 |
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| th1a | I just sent back a draft. | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | th1a: minor question | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | in the "add new group" form | 20:08 |
| th1a | yep | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | where we display a list of super-groups for the new group | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | should the list include *all* groups, or just groups that are connected to the group tree? | 20:08 |
| alga | th1a: I've just sent you the new story | 20:08 |
| th1a | alga: thanks | 20:08 |
| th1a | Oh... | 20:09 |
| th1a | mgedmin: that's a good question. | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | uh oh | 20:10 |
| th1a | Mentally, I'm just trying to force this whole thing into acting more like the ZMI. | 20:10 |
| *mgedmin is suddenly afraid | 20:10 | |
| th1a | So in my imagination, you're creating a group when you've navigated to its parent. | 20:10 |
| th1a | Rather than creating all the groups off the start page. | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | makes sense, I guess | 20:11 |
| th1a | I'm sorry I'm not that good at articulating these things without being prompted. | 20:11 |
| th1a | So "add a sub-group" would become an option of all groups. | 20:12 |
| th1a | Including the root group. | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | ok | 20:12 |
| th1a | And you wouldn't need a "select the parent group" choice. | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | and then the super-groups list in the add form would automatically preselect the parent group? | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | ah, wouldn't need | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | so you want to replace the story with a different one? | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | instead of adding a multiselection list in the "add group" form | 20:12 |
| th1a | That's what I seem to be saying... | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | add "add" buttons in group views | 20:13 |
| th1a | Yeah. Why I didn't start with that, I don't know. | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | ok | 20:14 |
| mgedmin | can someone of you (th1a, alga) update the proposal | 20:14 |
| *mgedmin is off, coding | 20:14 | |
| th1a | I will. | 20:14 |
| alga | (th1a, ) | 20:14 |
| th1a | alga: right back at ya. there are a few time estimates that need to be set now. | 20:23 |
| alga | ok | 20:25 |
| alga | is over IRC ok, or do you prefer modifications in the doc? | 20:25 |
| th1a | IRC is ok. | 20:27 |
| th1a | Let's get this done. | 20:27 |
| alga | line 69: should not say 'and 9' | 20:29 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:29 |
| alga | Setting super-groups: still 0.5 day | 20:30 |
| th1a | One reason I'm not an English teacher anymore is that I hate checking over papers... | 20:30 |
| alga | Restricting group membership: should say it's an option at creation time and later | 20:30 |
| th1a | Oh. We aren't going to do it globally? | 20:31 |
| alga | I thought the final decision was that a checkbox is ok... | 20:31 |
| th1a | For all folders, but with a checkbox for the manager? | 20:32 |
| alga | hes | 20:32 |
| alga | yes | 20:32 |
| alga | and on by default | 20:32 |
| alga | but not over REST | 20:32 |
| th1a | Actually, once its off you'd have a hard time turning it back on. | 20:32 |
| alga | because it will be a facet | 20:32 |
| alga | exactly | 20:33 |
| alga | that was I didn't want to make it a global option | 20:33 |
| alga | unsatisfied constraints | 20:33 |
| th1a | Well, that's a good point. | 20:33 |
| alga | That'll be 1 day | 20:33 |
| th1a | One day if we do it by group? | 20:34 |
| th1a | Would it still be one day? | 20:34 |
| th1a | If we changed it? | 20:34 |
| alga | If we do it by group | 20:35 |
| alga | My estimate is if we do it by group | 20:35 |
| alga | if global, I don't know | 20:35 |
| th1a | OK. By group, then. | 20:35 |
| th1a | next... | 20:36 |
| alga | i think that's it | 20:36 |
| alga | Of course, we need to decide about "This is essentially a form to upload a csv or XML file. We need to | 20:37 |
| alga | decide on and document the format for defining the timetable, however." | 20:37 |
| alga | I gather It's your job | 20:37 |
| alga | we can do whatever's most useful and friendly to the secretary | 20:38 |
| th1a | OK. I'll work on that. | 20:38 |
| alga | thanks | 20:38 |
| alga | is that it? | 20:39 |
| th1a | Think so... | 20:39 |
| alga | oh, yes. Probably it makes sense to update the date in the header | 20:40 |
| th1a | Sure. | 20:40 |
| th1a | Oh. I took the payment info out of this version. | 20:40 |
| th1a | Perhaps you'll want to add that back in before I send it to Mark :-) | 20:41 |
| alga | hm, the rate is the same | 20:42 |
| alga | for 20 days | 20:43 |
| alga | so sum = days / 20 * rate | 20:43 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:45 |
| th1a | I've got 31 days now. | 20:45 |
| alga | except the proposal talks about 2 milestones, so you'll have to add that too | 20:47 |
| alga | but the sum there is incorrenct in the latest version, afaic | 20:48 |
| th1a | How about if I send you what I've got now. | 20:48 |
| alga | OK | 20:49 |
| th1a | On its way. | 20:49 |
| th1a | OK here's a slightly unrelated problem. | 20:53 |
| th1a | Brian's got the SchoolBell .deb in the channel to get into Debian, and now he's concerned about getting SchoolTool in there too before Sarge comes out. | 20:54 |
| th1a | I might add that I'm completely baffled by all this. | 20:54 |
| th1a | Anyhow, we need to make a tarball of SchoolTool. | 20:54 |
| th1a | Which probably should just be SchoolBell before we changed the text and logo. | 20:55 |
| th1a | So I guess we just need to tell Brian what to take out of Subversion. | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure I understand the problem | 20:59 |
| th1a | I'm not sure that I do either. | 20:59 |
| th1a | I'll forward his email. | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | whatever Brian did to SchoolBell that he took from the schoolbell branch in the repository | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | he could do to SchoolTool from the main trunk in the repository | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | unless we want a specific snapshot | 21:00 |
| th1a | Right. Can he take it at the end of the day today? | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | that more-or-less corresponds to schoolbell m0.7 | 21:00 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | it depends on what he wants | 21:01 |
| <--thisfred has quit ("Farewell, cruel channel...") | 21:01 | |
| mgedmin | we have already started some work on m8 | 21:01 |
| th1a | Oops I might have sent you the wrong thing. | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | perhaps it would be better to package m7 without our new changes made this week | 21:01 |
| th1a | Anyhow, it looks like we just want a working version of SchoolTool to get the package into Sarge. | 21:01 |
| th1a | Resent. | 21:02 |
| alga | well, we're not far from m7, so it is fine | 21:02 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:03 |
| alga | Tom, "REST method that will create a new group | 21:15 |
| alga | which is a sub-group of the current one" | 21:15 |
| alga | we think REST does not need to be modified | 21:15 |
| th1a | Well... OK. | 21:16 |
| alga | what might be modified is wx client, but isn't it abandonned? | 21:17 |
| th1a | Basically. | 21:17 |
| th1a | Yes. | 21:17 |
| alga | do you mind if I reformat your acceptance criteria into bulleted lists? | 21:18 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 21:18 |
| alga | Tom, re. deletion | 21:25 |
| alga | * Deletion should be a link from the start page for managers. | 21:25 |
| alga | * The interface should allow the user to search for an object and then | 21:25 |
| alga | make clear that deletion is only for objects which were mistakenly | 21:25 |
| alga | created and not people, groups or resources that are no longer active | 21:25 |
| alga | in the school. | 21:25 |
| th1a | Yes? | 21:26 |
| alga | Why search? Why not [delete] on the info page or checkboxes on the index? | 21:26 |
| alga | there would be a fat warning anyway | 21:26 |
| th1a | My thinking was that I don't want people looking at it all the time, | 21:26 |
| th1a | and there will eventually be a "deactivate" button or something on the info page. | 21:27 |
| th1a | We really don't want people doing this. | 21:27 |
| alga | but searching is error-prone | 21:27 |
| alga | especially if we are deleting dupes | 21:27 |
| th1a | Well... | 21:28 |
| th1a | It is not a good thing either way. | 21:28 |
| alga | If you can walk up to the objects and figure out which one you want to keep, you're less likely to delete the good one | 21:29 |
| th1a | We could display all the data on the object's information page on the confirmation. | 21:29 |
| th1a | I see your point, but I'd rather have a good confirmation page, I think. | 21:30 |
| th1a | I don't want that option sitting in front of people all the time. | 21:30 |
| alga | ok... | 21:30 |
| th1a | If someone gets in the habit of deleting people instead of deactivating them, it is a BIG DISASTER. | 21:31 |
| alga | right | 21:31 |
| th1a | Whereas deleting one person is a mistake. | 21:31 |
| th1a | Deleting the wrong person, that is. | 21:32 |
| alga | hm, what about specifying the path on an object you want to delete? | 21:38 |
| alga | a bit lowlevel, just like the deletion itself | 21:38 |
| th1a | I don't think that'd be less confusing. | 21:44 |
| alga | that's HARD | 21:44 |
| alga | just like you want deletion to be | 21:44 |
| alga | the user has to find out the path he wants to delete, copy and paste it | 21:44 |
| alga | and then to confirm that it is really what he wants to delete. | 21:45 |
| th1a | Yeah, but it is hard in the wrong way, I think. | 21:45 |
| alga | :( | 21:45 |
| alga | Tom, more problems | 21:50 |
| alga | Composing a personal calendar | 21:50 |
| th1a | Yes... Better to find them now. | 21:50 |
| alga | do we want it editable? | 21:50 |
| alga | if I have a right to edit some groups calendar, should it be editable in the same combo view? | 21:51 |
| th1a | I would think in the combo view you only can edit your personal events. | 21:51 |
| th1a | If you want to edit group events, go there. | 21:51 |
| th1a | That seems good enough for now. | 21:52 |
| th1a | Right? | 21:52 |
| alga | yes | 21:52 |
| alga | it simplifies life for us, anyway. | 21:52 |
| th1a | It seems like the alternative would get complicated. | 21:52 |
| alga | you mean for the user? | 21:53 |
| th1a | And it might be error-prone for users without a lot of attention to the UI | 21:53 |
| alga | perhaps you're right | 21:53 |
| alga | we'll find out if it's really needed once we start using it ourselves :-) | 21:53 |
| alga | Next thing: | 21:53 |
| alga | * This should be controllable via the REST interface, too. | 21:53 |
| th1a | You can scratch your own itch, if so ;-) | 21:54 |
| alga | But we don't do any composition in REST (iCal) views | 21:54 |
| th1a | I guess that doesn't necessarily make any sense. | 21:54 |
| th1a | I kinda complsively write that so I don't forget. | 21:54 |
| th1a | Cut it out. | 21:54 |
| alga | OTOH, it is a piece of information on a person that can be changed | 21:55 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 21:55 |
| alga | perhaps it's not nice making it changeable only through the web | 21:55 |
| th1a | There is virtue in being strict about that. | 21:55 |
| alga | I'm confused | 21:55 |
| th1a | So am I, obviously. | 21:56 |
| th1a | It is hard to think of a use case for doing that via REST. | 21:56 |
| alga | set that property to all users with a script | 21:56 |
| th1a | But generally speaking, we want you to be able to do everything via REST that you can do through the web. | 21:57 |
| th1a | OK, you talked me back into keeping it! | 21:57 |
| th1a | I'm hungry, and easily persuaded. | 21:57 |
| alga | hee hee :-) | 21:57 |
| th1a | Whatever will let me go get lunch. | 21:57 |
| alga | ok, on the REST level we'll do it as a new kind of relationship | 21:58 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:58 |
| alga | one more use for our so-solidli-built primitives | 21:58 |
| th1a | Yep. | 22:00 |
| alga | you can go if you need to, I'll send you my version once I'm done | 22:01 |
| th1a | Ah. Now bskahan has me on Jabber. We should have both your proposals finalized at the same time. | 22:02 |
| alga | do you prefer jabber? | 22:04 |
| alga | my id is alga@amessage.de, but I seem to have forgotten the password :-) | 22:04 |
| th1a | Not really. I'd rather do as much as we can "in public." | 22:05 |
| alga | ICQ UIN 139323522 | 22:05 |
| th1a | Don't have ICQ. | 22:05 |
| th1a | AIM, Jabber, IRC. | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | speaking about public -- are these IRC conversations logged anywhere? | 22:05 |
| th1a | Skype. | 22:05 |
| th1a | Ah... I haven't gotten my logbot running since I installed ubuntu. because I can't get Java going. | 22:06 |
| th1a | rabidbt: help | 22:07 |
| rabidbt | th1a: (help [<plugin>] <command>) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. | 22:07 |
| th1a | I'm not sure if he's logging somewhere... | 22:07 |
| alga | rabidbt: where are you logging to? | 22:08 |
| alga | :) | 22:08 |
| th1a | OK. I'm going out for lunch. | 22:09 |
| th1a | Thanks guys. It's been productive, if somewhat painful. | 22:09 |
| th1a | Probably more painful for you. | 22:10 |
| th1a | Trying to figure out what I'm talking about. | 22:10 |
| alga | It's 22:10 here | 22:11 |
| alga | so we're going home soon | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | th1a: when you're back from lunch, can you review the "default groups" story? | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | there is now a button in the group's member list view | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | when you click it, you get an "add group (a subgroup of This Group)" form | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | when you submit it, a new group is created and added as a subgroup of the original group | 22:15 |
| *mgedmin meant review the _implementation_ of the "default groups" story | 22:16 | |
| mgedmin | well, me did not mean exactly that -- I'm not asking you to review the source code changes | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | but you know what I mean | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | a manual acceptance test | 22:17 |
| ---Disconnected (). | 22:48 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 7 22:48:46 2004 | ||
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