IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2004-07-21

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 21 13:33:37 2004
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---Topic for #schooltool is || IRC logs at
---Topic for #schooltool set by mgedmin at Fri Jul 16 18:15:5213:33
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gintasthere might be some useful info wrt. calendaring in this page:
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th1aGood evening gentlemen. My sleeping pattern tends to slip even more out of sync with your time zone than it is to start with.17:55
th1aFrom yesterday's checkins it looks like milestone 6 is almost done.  What's the status?17:57
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algayes, Marius and Gintas have almost released the milestone18:05
algabut I felt that the app log functionality was not quite ready18:06
algaso it is delayed for a day or two..18:06
algayou know, spitting out the whole log file in a wx window is not too user friendy18:07
algaimagine if the log is 15MB long18:07
algaso now we're working on functionality to limit and filter the log contents18:07
th1aSounds good.18:08
algaunfortunately, this involves the yucky wx work18:08
th1aYes.  It can be yucky.18:08
th1aWe should be able to switch to the new website for the m6 release.  It will almost look like we planned it that way.18:09
th1aSo Mark and I have agreed to fund a second team to finalize schooltool's "platform" nature while the calendaring work goes on.18:11
th1aThat is integrating schemas and other Zope 3 stuff, doing a "Simple Product" and generally having everything clearly specified for how extensions will work.18:13
th1aSo the question turns to who will do it...  Any suggestions?18:20
*mgedmin thinks that "platform" work is more interesting18:29
*mgedmin did not like the iCalendar spec when he had to read and understand it18:30
th1aThan calendaring?18:30
th1aIt might make more sense to look for another team to do the calendaring...18:30
th1aThere's just a strong imperative to get calendaring done quickly, too.18:31
th1aI'm going to work on the specs for calendaring.  According to my "Extreme Programming Pocket Guide" I should be writing a series of stories that are one or two sentences from the user's perspective, each one describing a single feature.18:39
th1aIs that the way you would like it done?18:39
th1aOK.  That's what I'm going to do then.18:54
algabut those sentences are just titles, markers.  XP implies verbal communication about the details of what the customer wants19:01
algawhereas we might do a paragraph of elaboration (like in the past proposals)19:01
algaor "verbal" communication on IRC19:02
th1aI can do that, too.19:02
th1aWould it be helpful if I got up earlier, btw?  Am I starting these discussions too late in the day?  19:03
mgedminsure, we can communicate with verbs on IRC19:03
*mgedmin ducks and runs19:04
th1aI was considering last night that you guys could very easily be bots.19:04
th1aClever bots, of course...19:05
algaWhy do you say you were considering last night that you guys could very easily be bots?19:12
mgedminIs it because I guys could very easily be bots clever bots of course19:12
mgedminthat you came to me?19:12
th1a:D 19:13
algaseriously though, we get up late19:13
mgedminmy ideal work day ends at 19:00 UTC+030019:13
algaand usually leave work after 07:00Z19:13
mgedminthis has never happened so far19:14
mgedminI usually leave about 19:00 UTC19:14
mgedminalga apparently leaves at 7 am ;)19:14
algathat's what I meant19:14
alga19:00 is what I meant19:14
mgedminuhh I meant 18:00 UTC19:14
th1aSo we all run late in our respective timezones.19:14
mgedminbetween 20:00 and 22:00 UTC+0300, and I cannot do simple arithmetics now for some reason19:15
algath1a: I don't think it's much of a problem19:15
th1aDoes it make more sense for me to look for a separate team to do calendaring than to do the core platform work?19:16
algahard to say19:16
algaMarius has a lot of momentum on calendaring19:16
*mgedmin prepares an axe19:17
th1aMomentum but apparently not enthusiasm.19:17
algabut, also, we've got most knowledge on the core platform19:17
algawell, ical sucks and calendaring is boring19:17
mgedminis it?19:18
th1aPerhaps I could find a team who would work with a school on calendaring.19:18
algaOTOH calendaring promises to be much more well-defined19:18
mgedminactually I do not know if calendaring or platform work would be more interesting19:18
th1aThe only other issue is that the hard parts of the calendaring work seem to revolve around permissions, which is pretty much a core thing.19:18
mgedminbut I think we're better qualified to work on core platform19:19
th1aYeah, I'd agree.19:19
mgedminotoh if someone else works on the platform, perhaps a fresh look would help clean up the design19:19
*mgedmin cannot make up his mind today19:19
th1aBut we'd probably need a Zope 3 hacker, and there aren't many of those.19:20
algaus! us!19:21
algamarius is best in sticking things together19:21
algahe glued twisted, ZODB and interfaces in a day or so19:22
th1aWell,  for the moment I'm going to focus my attention more on finding an outside team to do calendaring than finding a new team to do the core work.19:27
SteveAalga, mgedmin: you're not interested in calendaring?19:27
*SteveA is somewhat surprised19:28
*mgedmin is surprised that SteveA is suprised19:29
mgedminactually I'm not not interested in calendaring (two nots are intentional)19:29
mgedminI'm just somewhat wary of iCal spec19:29
SteveA"not uninterested" is the idiom19:30
SteveAI think most of the interesting problems with calendaring build upon what you've already done with ical19:30
SteveAdid you see that plone product that uses the schooltool ical parser?19:31
SteveAthey're using it pretty much as-is.  I expect this calendaring project can do the same.19:31
th1aI think it is a matter of making a choice between doing more core stuff or platform stuff.19:32
th1aOr calendaring stuff, I mean.19:32
SteveAmark is extremely keen on the calendaring stuff19:35
th1aThat's why they both need to happen soon and at the same time.19:36
th1aFirming up the platform is a bottleneck for everything else.19:37
th1aNotwithstanding the desires of POV, it is also a question of which task it will be easier to find a second team to do.19:39
SteveAsee if you can get sidnei da silva interested19:39
SteveAhe took the schooltool ical stuff to use with a plone product19:39
th1aOK.  Either way you guys have more connections in the Zope world than I do.19:40
th1aSo let me know if you have ideas.19:40
*SteveA sends sidnei and tom an introductory email19:42
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th1aI'm 90% certain we're going to have Oren Sreebny from the University of Washington here tomorrow at 1900 Vilnius time to talk about calendaring issues.20:10
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 21 20:41:09 2004

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