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| th1a | I'm going to reboot to try to detect my headset... | 16:28 |
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| th1a | hi yvl, aelkner, replaceafill, menesis. | 16:33 |
| menesis | i | 16:33 |
| menesis | hi | 16:33 |
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:34 |
| th1a | We're probably not going to have Welsh, so I'll play his role. | 16:35 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:35 |
| th1a | So we'll go through you worksheets in a bit. | 16:36 |
| yvl | hi guys | 16:36 |
| th1a | menesis: Do you have anything to report? | 16:36 |
| menesis | th1a: no | 16:36 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks! Moving on... | 16:36 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 16:36 |
| replaceafill | i only worked on the skills report for the autism center: | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | login as teacher001 at: | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/autism_center/ | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | here's the url to one of the reports: | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/autism_center/schoolyears/2011-2012/2012-spring/sections/math_a_2012-spring_teacher001_000/skills/8/gradebook/student350/skills_report.html | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | this version uses yvl's skill history | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | it shows you the first 4 "assessments" | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | for each skill | 16:38 |
| aelkner | should it perhaps sow the most recent 4 assessments? | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | but yesterday i realized it's not very much what the autism center needs | 16:38 |
| th1a | Can't we do the same boxes they have? | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | th1a, it wouldn't represent the same | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | as we discussed yesterday | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | they need 4 grades per skill per assessment | 16:40 |
| th1a | No, they need more skills. | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | so, i'm working on that idea: more skills | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | making each "score" a skill | 16:40 |
| th1a | To fill in everyone else... | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | and creating many skillsets | 16:41 |
| th1a | Each "skill" is actually evaluated in different social contexts. | 16:41 |
| th1a | Four of them, to be precise. | 16:41 |
| th1a | So we can either introduce a new concept to the data model, | 16:42 |
| th1a | make the social contexts equivalent to skillsets, | 16:42 |
| th1a | or make the "skills" into skillsets and the contexts the skills. | 16:42 |
| th1a | If you follow me. | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | i'm working on th1a's second idea | 16:43 |
| th1a | I think conceptually it makes more sense for the contexts to be the skillsets. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Except for the purposes of the layout of this report, but it is ok to have a custom report. | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | so, i'll finish that and update the instance | 16:44 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:44 |
| * replaceafill done | 16:44 | |
| th1a | Thanks. | 16:44 |
| th1a | yvl? | 16:44 |
| yvl | ok... | 16:45 |
| yvl | so I was mainly working on journal | 16:45 |
| yvl | on the todo list... gradebook reports | 16:46 |
| yvl | and test if it works with non-manager users ;) | 16:46 |
| yvl | and fix broken tests, etc | 16:46 |
| yvl | I've also looked at a CL DB that failed to evolve (the one I had, not the one in LP) | 16:46 |
| th1a | Or you could do awesome skills browser/search. | 16:47 |
| yvl | uh? | 16:47 |
| yvl | oh | 16:47 |
| yvl | the todo | 16:47 |
| yvl | I mean - gradebook reports are broken, because API changed | 16:47 |
| yvl | need to fix | 16:47 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:48 |
| yvl | also, need to check if a teacher can actually enter a score | 16:48 |
| th1a | Yes, what's up with the CL db? | 16:48 |
| yvl | something with zope.intid moved from zope.app.intid | 16:48 |
| yvl | and similar | 16:48 |
| yvl | they seem to have packaged some versions differently than we had few years ago | 16:49 |
| yvl | in any case, fixable | 16:49 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:50 |
| yvl | I assume "the rest" will "just evolve" ;) | 16:50 |
| th1a | OK, well, get that squared away first. | 16:50 |
| yvl | sure | 16:50 |
| yvl | I forgot yesterday | 16:50 |
| yvl | only took a whack at it oday | 16:50 |
| yvl | today :) | 16:50 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:52 |
| th1a | Did you guys get hangout invites? | 16:52 |
| yvl | have not checked... | 16:53 |
| yvl | yes | 16:53 |
| aelkner | http://69.164.203.135:36660/manage | 16:56 |
| th1a | I feel like I'm being watched. | 17:23 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:23 |
| aelkner | big brother is watcing you... | 17:23 |
| replaceafill | i feel like i can't eat my breakfast in a hangout :) | 17:24 |
| th1a | OK, so does aelkner need something to do now? | 17:24 |
| aelkner | here's what i have on my plate | 17:24 |
| aelkner | 1) add text area to importer, filling in with all errors (no truncation) grouped by type | 17:24 |
| aelkner | 2) create course_skills.xls for associating the two courses with some skillsets (which ones?) | 17:26 |
| aelkner | other than that, i can't think of anything at the moment | 17:26 |
| aelkner | ah, yes | 17:26 |
| aelkner | should we make a schooltool.virginia now? | 17:27 |
| aelkner | i have these python scripts that need a home in launchpad, and they are only for virginia | 17:27 |
| aelkner | so perhaps that would be the best place for them | 17:27 |
| th1a | Sounds good to me. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | ok, i'll do that, too | 17:28 |
| aelkner | then i'll figure out what other loose ends i have and take care of them | 17:28 |
| aelkner | that's al for me | 17:28 |
| th1a | I filed a bug for making breadcrumbs work in documents. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | ah, yes, that's it | 17:29 |
| aelkner | that's a loose end that needs fixing, thanks for reminding me | 17:29 |
| th1a | We can tie up some loose ends and then get seriously into CanDo reports next week. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | continue to file any bugs you find while down in virginia and assign to me | 17:29 |
| th1a | OK. I'm only going to be there a day. | 17:31 |
| th1a | We did start a CanDo report view at one point, didn't we? | 17:31 |
| th1a | You might want to reload that into your memory. | 17:32 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:32 |
| th1a | All right, I guess that's it. | 17:34 |
| th1a | Can you be on IRC around 3:00 PM aelkner? | 17:34 |
| yvl | (oh, and CL db seems to have evolved) | 17:34 |
| aelkner | i should be back from my haircut and food shopping by then, so yes | 17:35 |
| th1a | OK. See you then. | 17:36 |
| th1a | I might need the database wiped or something tweaked. | 17:36 |
| yvl | uh, gravel th1a? | 17:38 |
| th1a | Sorry, got welsh on the phone now. | 17:38 |
| yvl | ah :) | 17:38 |
| th1a | Have a goo week guys. I'll be in touch. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | great weekend everyone! | 17:38 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:38 | |
| yvl | thanks | 17:38 |
| yvl | good luck, th1a ! | 17:38 |
| aelkner | th1a, could you ask welsh what he means by step7 please? | 17:38 |
| yvl | great week guys | 17:38 |
| aelkner | th1a, also, i thought of a new task, finding courses view as welsh suggests in step6 | 17:43 |
| th1a | nodes need ids | 17:43 |
| th1a | That is, user editable ids. | 17:44 |
| th1a | So we can match them with course id's. | 17:44 |
| th1a | So make the skillsets here http://69.164.203.135:36660/nodes/8437-2011 | 17:44 |
| th1a | correspond to this course http://69.164.203.135:36660/schoolyears/2012-2013/courses/28408 | 17:44 |
| th1a | (this is in your import sheet) | 17:45 |
| th1a | And associate these skillsets: http://69.164.203.135:36660/nodes/8435-2011 | 17:46 |
| th1a | With this course. | 17:46 |
| * replaceafill goes to pay some bills, bb in 30 mins | 17:47 | |
| th1a | You follow that aelkner? | 17:51 |
| aelkner | just returned from the head, looking at it now... | 17:52 |
| aelkner | th1a, you gave me two different nodes and only one course | 17:53 |
| th1a | Sorry: http://69.164.203.135:36660/schoolyears/2012-2013/courses/28439 | 17:54 |
| aelkner | so every skillset for the node goes with the course in question, right? | 17:55 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:56 |
| aelkner | i'll have it for you momentarily | 17:57 |
| th1a | kk | 17:57 |
| th1a | I'm going to have to scoot in about 10 minutes... | 18:12 |
| * replaceafill is back | 18:14 | |
| * th1a goes to run some errands. | 18:27 | |
| th1a | replaceafill: Welsh wants to show someone the autism demo. | 18:28 |
| th1a | Is it down? | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | no | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | let me give you the url | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/autism_center | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | teacher001 | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | the url for the report is: | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/autism_center/schoolyears/2011-2012/2012-spring/sections/math_a_2012-spring_teacher001_000/skills/8/gradebook/student350/skills_report.html | 18:29 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 18:29 |
| * th1a out. | 18:29 | |
| aelkner | replaceafill, ayt? | 18:49 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, yes | 18:49 |
| aelkner | oh, great, can you look at this link please: | 18:49 |
| aelkner | http://69.164.203.135:36660/schoolyears/2012-2013/2012-fall/sections/28439-P2-S1/projects/Project/gradebook | 18:49 |
| aelkner | wit for username | 18:49 |
| aelkner | wait | 18:49 |
| aelkner | joseph.taylor@apsva.us | 18:49 |
| aelkner | same password | 18:49 |
| aelkner | does that look right to you? | 18:50 |
| replaceafill | no | 18:50 |
| replaceafill | i still see the third-nav problem | 18:50 |
| aelkner | i merged the gradebook and cando trunks and restarted my instance | 18:50 |
| aelkner | did you solve that in core? | 18:51 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:51 |
| aelkner | ok, maybe it was a while ago and i already had merged | 18:51 |
| aelkner | i'll have to pull that to my instance | 18:51 |
| replaceafill | if you set up core, gradebook trunk and cando trunk, the gradebook looks fine | 18:51 |
| aelkner | ah, much better, thanks! | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | now looks good :) | 18:53 |
| aelkner | yeah, i had merged already, just didn't pull to my instance, thought i had | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 18:54 |
| replaceafill | the labels in the skillsets are the same | 18:54 |
| replaceafill | 001, 002, 003 | 18:54 |
| replaceafill | maybe the cte database doesn't have "local ids"... | 18:55 |
| aelkner | replaceafill, i set the labels programatically because i didn't see any local ids in the verso data | 19:03 |
| aelkner | i think lee caps always did the same when generating the xml file for old cando | 19:04 |
| replaceafill | ah | 19:04 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:04 |
| replaceafill | i thought they were meaningful for david | 19:04 |
| aelkner | they are needed for column header, but really it's the rollover text that is most important | 19:05 |
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| replaceafill | th1a, i have a question | 21:41 |
| replaceafill | could we create a score like: 0,1,1,0 | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | for each skill in the autism center case? | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | a multiscore score :D | 21:42 |
| th1a | A tuple? | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | just strings like: 0,0,0,1 | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | 0,0,1,1 | 21:42 |
| th1a | I don't think I want to go in that direction. | 21:42 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 21:43 |
| th1a | We could add something to the data model. | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | it was just an idea :) | 21:43 |
| th1a | One similar case which we don't really address is if you had a standard which you wanted to assess at different levels. | 21:43 |
| th1a | Like if you had a reading comprehension standard that was the same at each grade level but assessed to a different standard each year. | 21:44 |
| th1a | (I'm not saying that is entirely logical, but possible) | 21:44 |
| replaceafill | for now we'll go with the one skillset per social setting, correct? | 21:45 |
| th1a | I think that's best. | 21:45 |
| th1a | It isn't set in stone. | 21:45 |
| replaceafill | what are we going to use for the scores in the scoresystem? | 21:46 |
| replaceafill | since now the old scores become skillsets | 21:47 |
| replaceafill | the assesment number? | 21:47 |
| replaceafill | like they do | 21:47 |
| replaceafill | or just an "X"? | 21:47 |
| th1a | Huh? | 21:47 |
| th1a | Old scores? | 21:48 |
| replaceafill | we won't use 1,2,3,4 representing the social settings for the scores right? | 21:48 |
| th1a | Well, the report will have to be weird because it will have to invert the normal skillset/skill relationship. | 21:49 |
| replaceafill | :| | 21:49 |
| th1a | So yes, it will look like the score is applied to the skillset. | 21:49 |
| th1a | Is that what you're saying? | 21:49 |
| th1a | But it really won't. | 21:49 |
| th1a | It will look normal in the gradebook too. | 21:50 |
| th1a | Just kind of inverted in this report, right? | 21:50 |
| replaceafill | i'm trying to follow the inverted part | 21:50 |
| th1a | I'm just saying the row will be the skill: "Eye Contact" | 21:51 |
| th1a | And then the cells will be the social setting I-to-1 etc, | 21:51 |
| th1a | Which are actually skillsets. | 21:51 |
| th1a | Just in the report. | 21:52 |
| replaceafill | got it | 21:52 |
| th1a | kk | 21:52 |
| replaceafill | in the gradebook, we still will have 4 worksheets, right? | 21:52 |
| th1a | Yes. | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | what do you input in the cell? | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | in the gradebook cell | 21:53 |
| th1a | In the gradebook the social setting = skillset = tab. | 21:53 |
| th1a | skill = row. | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | skill = column? | 21:54 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 21:56 |
| th1a | SOrry. | 21:56 |
| replaceafill | :) | 21:56 |
| replaceafill | what do you type in the cell for each assessment? | 21:56 |
| replaceafill | my point is that the "current" score system doesn't make sense anymore in the new layout | 21:57 |
| replaceafill | 1 doesnt mean "1:1" anymore, 2 doesn't mean "S" | 21:57 |
| replaceafill | and so on | 21:57 |
| th1a | Oh, good lord. | 21:57 |
| replaceafill | sorry th1a | 21:57 |
| replaceafill | i'm just confused in that part (score system) | 21:57 |
| th1a | I'm not cursing you. | 21:58 |
| th1a | Oh, shit. | 21:58 |
| th1a | Ah, I see. | 21:59 |
| th1a | So it is just pass/fail, essentially. | 21:59 |
| replaceafill | correct | 21:59 |
| replaceafill | that's why i recommended a plain "X" | 21:59 |
| th1a | They'll just want to call it something different, but pass/fail will do for now. | 21:59 |
| replaceafill | ok | 21:59 |
| aelkner | th1a, i see you're in the middle of something, i'll be standing by | 22:00 |
| th1a | At least now I understand why I was confused for the past day. | 22:00 |
| replaceafill | i'll go with pass/fail then, thanks th1a | 22:01 |
| * replaceafill done | 22:01 | |
| aelkner | th1a, did you get my email? | 22:02 |
| th1a | Yeah, let me try that. | 22:03 |
| aelkner | http://69.164.203.135:36660/schoolyears/2012-2013/2012-fall/sections/28439-P2-S1/skills/8437-2011-0/gradebook | 22:03 |
| aelkner | wait for user | 22:03 |
| aelkner | joseph.taylor@apsva.us, same password | 22:03 |
| aelkner | you could also log in as manager to see the course skills view | 22:04 |
| aelkner | but i know the gradebook is more interesting to you | 22:04 |
| th1a | Are the tabs working for you, aelkner? | 22:04 |
| aelkner | yeah, not for you? | 22:05 |
| th1a | replaceafill: the tabs don't work for me if I do the above link as manager but they do if I'm the teacher. | 22:06 |
| aelkner | firefox, chrome, did you reload resources with ctrl shift r (for firefox, i believe) | 22:06 |
| aelkner | oh manager | 22:06 |
| aelkner | i didn't try getting to the gradebook as manager | 22:06 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i see it | 22:07 |
| replaceafill | i'll fix it | 22:07 |
| th1a | aelkner: It isn't your problem. | 22:07 |
| aelkner | btw, i remembered what else i can do next, direct course search | 22:08 |
| aelkner | but i see it in a more general sense, 'search terminal nodes' | 22:08 |
| th1a | What attributes do skillsets have? | 22:08 |
| th1a | It isn't really different than the nodes search which already exists. | 22:08 |
| aelkner | that search will return all nodes that match, say, a title search | 22:09 |
| th1a | You need to make that nodes index sane. The giant list of parents and skillsets is not really usable | 22:09 |
| aelkner | i think it would be better to search for them from the document view | 22:09 |
| th1a | I don't think that's much of a problem. | 22:09 |
| aelkner | the doc knows the hierachy | 22:09 |
| aelkner | ok, that's fine | 22:09 |
| aelkner | but yes, the node views need some love, too | 22:10 |
| th1a | Do skillsets have labels or id's? | 22:11 |
| aelkner | def __init__(self, title, external_id=u'', label=u'') | 22:11 |
| aelkner | for skills, i set the labels, 001, 002, programatically | 22:12 |
| aelkner | nothing in the verso db had those numbers, it's just the index expresses as 3-digit string | 22:12 |
| th1a | Someone needs to write some skillset labels. ;-) | 22:12 |
| th1a | (not aelkner) | 22:13 |
| aelkner | somewhere in the verso db would be a good place for it, is that what you're thinking? | 22:13 |
| aelkner | then we would just pull it down from there | 22:13 |
| th1a | Or whatever. | 22:14 |
| aelkner | old cando didn't mind because we used drop-down instead of tab | 22:15 |
| aelkner | remember? | 22:15 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, th1a i just pushed the fix for the manager+gradebook issue | 22:15 |
| aelkner | so, basically, we introduced a fancy feature (tabs) that forces them to consider a new concept (short title) | 22:15 |
| th1a | It isn't that fancy. | 22:16 |
| aelkner | or we could just create A, B, C for them with rollover text for the actual skillset title | 22:16 |
| th1a | There's really no way around the fact that sometimes these things don't have titles and that's always a disaster. | 22:16 |
| th1a | In practice I just always made them up. | 22:17 |
| aelkner | like codes are made up | 22:18 |
| * replaceafill goes to get lunch, bb in 30 mins | 22:18 | |
| aelkner | DWPR -> Demonstrating Workplace Readiness... | 22:18 |
| aelkner | it's always someone in the admin office that codifies things, in this case noone in Richmond cares about codifying skillsets | 22:19 |
| th1a | OK, I guess you should wipe the database so it is ready for tomorrow. | 22:32 |
| aelkner | ok, wiping... | 22:34 |
| aelkner | don't forget to include the resource xls in the demo | 22:35 |
| th1a | kk | 22:35 |
| aelkner | btw, what time tomorrow will you be doing the run-through do you think? | 22:35 |
| th1a | I'm not sure. | 22:36 |
| th1a | I would be good if you were around late morning. | 22:36 |
| aelkner | that's why i asked | 22:36 |
| aelkner | ok, late morning, i'll be on the chat | 22:36 |
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