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| Lumiere | hi ignas | 02:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | hi | 02:34 |
| Lumiere | happy very, very early morning | 02:34 |
| ignas | nah | 02:34 |
| ignas | just late at night | 02:34 |
| Lumiere | lol | 02:34 |
| ignas | 2:30 am | 02:35 |
| Lumiere | that's a better thing to hear | 02:35 |
| Lumiere | yea | 02:35 |
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| Lumiere | hi all | 16:10 |
| th1a | hi Lumiere. | 16:13 |
| ignas | hi | 16:20 |
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| th1a | hi replaceafill, menesis, aelkner, ignas, yvl. | 16:30 |
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| aelkner | hello | 16:31 |
| replaceafill | good morning everybody | 16:31 |
| menesis | hello | 16:31 |
| ignas | hi | 16:32 |
| th1a | ignas: Where do we stand on releases? | 16:33 |
| ignas | th1a: the new code is in gutsy, will copy it to hardy, intrepid in a few minutes | 16:33 |
| ignas | installed the packages built from it on my machine | 16:34 |
| ignas | and it seems it works | 16:34 |
| ignas | haven't looked much at the jaunty release, menesis was investigating it while i was packaging for intrepid | 16:34 |
| th1a | When will these hit the PPA? | 16:34 |
| ignas | depends on how fast PPA is | 16:34 |
| ignas | but should hit PPA in 10-15 minutesi guess | 16:35 |
| th1a | OK. Will I get those automatically? | 16:35 |
| ignas | after i'll be done typing here ;) | 16:35 |
| ignas | yeah you will | 16:35 |
| yvl | hi guys | 16:35 |
| ignas | though - i have not built the schooltool-2009 package and did not do schooltool.stapp2009spring | 16:35 |
| ignas | the release did not change at all | 16:35 |
| ignas | so I am kind of doing it | 16:35 |
| ignas | to keep our new users confused less | 16:36 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:36 |
| ignas | so they'd be installing schooltool-2009 | 16:36 |
| ignas | not that I like it, but at the moment we are stuck with this pattern :/ | 16:36 |
| th1a | I'm confused. | 16:36 |
| ignas | well - the idea was having different packages so we could make changes between releases | 16:37 |
| ignas | and allow our users to make the upgrade explicitly | 16:37 |
| th1a | I don't think that's a concern yet. | 16:37 |
| ignas | but in the last 2 releases we did not really change anything | 16:37 |
| th1a | In the stapp package specifically. | 16:37 |
| th1a | ? | 16:37 |
| ignas | in there | 16:38 |
| ignas | and in schooltool-2008 schooltool-2009 thing | 16:38 |
| ignas | the best case would be following the buildbot/trac pattern probably, but as always I am not sure we have enough time to prototype it and deploy it | 16:38 |
| ignas | and have no idea how to migrate users from one to the other... | 16:38 |
| ignas | i mean - how to upgrade schooltool-2008 package users to schooltool-server package | 16:39 |
| th1a | Well, at the moment I guess we don't have to worry about it. | 16:39 |
| ignas | hmm, maybe we don't need to | 16:39 |
| ignas | i'll think a bit about it, while creating the 2009 package just in case ;) | 16:39 |
| th1a | Create a 2009 package. | 16:39 |
| th1a | The concern is this: | 16:39 |
| th1a | we're going to release 2009.10 in October. Some users will say DO NOT WANT to upgrade in the middle of the semester. | 16:40 |
| th1a | The smart ones, at least. | 16:40 |
| th1a | So that should not be automatic. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Although... realistically, that's still not necessarily the use case. | 16:41 |
| th1a | Because we're going to be releasing a string of improvements the rest of the year. | 16:41 |
| th1a | Adding reports, bug fixes, etc. | 16:41 |
| ignas | my concern is this | 16:41 |
| ignas | current system is bad | 16:42 |
| ignas | i am not sure i can come up with a better one | 16:42 |
| ignas | and it's better to have a bad system, than none at all | 16:42 |
| th1a | I'm certainly not suggesting starting over. | 16:42 |
| ignas | i will talk to menesis and Lumiere and see if we can make something good | 16:43 |
| th1a | Realistically, I'm probably getting ahead of where we need to be. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Right now we just need good packages. | 16:43 |
| ignas | though - schooltool-2008 will act precisely the way schooltool-2009 will, or the way mystical schooltool-server will... | 16:43 |
| th1a | Realistically, in a year we might be worrying about users who won't want to upgrade. | 16:43 |
| ignas | from the http://localhost:7080/ point of view | 16:44 |
| ignas | yeah, i know, i am more concerned about users installing schooltool-2008 in 2009 ;) | 16:44 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:44 |
| th1a | We don't want to confuse people that way. | 16:44 |
| th1a | I guess that was your original point. | 16:45 |
| ignas | yeah, we'll do something, either what we did last year, or something better | 16:45 |
| th1a | OK. What else? | 16:45 |
| ignas | nothing from me | 16:46 |
| * ignas goes to copy packages in PPA | 16:46 | |
| th1a | What do you forsee the rest of the week? | 16:46 |
| ignas | well - if intrepid is good | 16:46 |
| ignas | package it for jaunty | 16:46 |
| ignas | if jaunty is good - add schooltool-* to jaunty also | 16:47 |
| ignas | and start going through bugs | 16:47 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:47 |
| th1a | menesis: Anything to add? | 16:47 |
| menesis | th1a: no, what ignas said | 16:47 |
| th1a | Oh... I don't think we've announced that menesis is going to be working on packaging going forward. | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | we haven't :) | 16:48 |
| th1a | Would you like to introduce yourself, menesis? | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | if we're going to want to keep people from automatically upgrading, there will have to be different main packages... but I think schooltool-server could be like mail-server | 16:48 |
| menesis | I have a fixed pydebdep package for jaunty, but have not yet tried to push it to schooltool.org to try building packages | 16:49 |
| menesis | intrudoce.. | 16:49 |
| menesis | I am working in the same company as Ignas, pov. | 16:50 |
| menesis | I knew him since school | 16:50 |
| menesis | :) | 16:50 |
| menesis | have not done packaging work yet but it was something that interests me so i took packaging part of Ignas' job | 16:51 |
| th1a | I'll have to figure out who is the official "release manager" going forward. jinty may be becoming "release manager emeritus." | 16:51 |
| th1a | Not that these are important titles ;-) | 16:52 |
| menesis | just last week back from consulting in Sweden | 16:52 |
| th1a | How long were you there? | 16:52 |
| menesis | 3+3 weeks | 16:53 |
| menesis | with one week holiday back home | 16:53 |
| th1a | Was that with POV? | 16:53 |
| th1a | Lumiere: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/65609 | 16:55 |
| menesis | me and mgedmin went to help them build a new product | 16:55 |
| * mgedmin waves | 16:56 | |
| th1a | hi mgedmin. | 16:56 |
| * th1a does not try to figure out Lithuanian politics. | 16:56 | |
| th1a | OK, welcome menesis! | 16:57 |
| th1a | Lumiere: I also just forwarded an email with some problems getting CanDo running from your instructions. | 16:58 |
| th1a | replaceafill: How are you? | 16:59 |
| menesis | thanks | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | hi, i met with welsh and he assign me two new bugs (or features) | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | he wants them done by the end of the week | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | so Lumiere can release an update before the spring break | 17:00 |
| th1a | OK... I imagine you guys are keeping track of how much money you're spending... | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | welsh sent me a format for the invoice i should sent u | 17:00 |
| th1a | Everyone can send me their invoices after Wednesday. | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | i guess i found a bug in the assignments gradebook | 17:01 |
| th1a | I saw that. | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | i didnt know if it was a valid usecase | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | but Lumiere told me it is possible | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | i'll wait for welsh comments before trying to fix it | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | i have no questions today :) | 17:02 |
| th1a | OK. Even if he doesn't want you to fix it now, make sure and file a bug. | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:03 |
| th1a | So we don't forget about it completely. | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | will do that now | 17:03 |
| th1a | Lumiere? | 17:03 |
| Lumiere | wierd | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | I am looking at that question, and I am not sure how it clobbered it | 17:04 |
| th1a | Did you see the email? | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | ok, it hasn't clobbered anything | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | it can't have overwritten anything | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | they're both running on the same port | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | we don't cover that in any documentation | 17:05 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:06 |
| th1a | But she seems to have a different installation problem? | 17:06 |
| th1a | As well. | 17:07 |
| th1a | aelkner is coming to visit. | 17:08 |
| aelkner | indeed | 17:08 |
| th1a | Did you get the email about the flight, aelkner? | 17:08 |
| aelkner | i did. | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I can't tell what happened then | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | none of our stuff has make install | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | or anything that would start it automatically | 17:10 |
| ignas | lisppaste5: url | 17:10 |
| lisppaste5 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool and enter your paste. | 17:10 |
| ignas | maybe i can look at it | 17:10 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Why is she getting an importerror? | 17:10 |
| th1a | ignas: I sent you the mail as well. | 17:10 |
| th1a | aelkner: So how are things coming on the reports? | 17:11 |
| aelkner | i made the change to the layout keys i talked about before | 17:11 |
| aelkner | so that it uses names rather than titles | 17:12 |
| aelkner | and i changed the way that the worksheet names get created for deployed worksheets | 17:12 |
| aelkner | so now it's ready for you to test out | 17:12 |
| th1a | So when you get here we'll be able to walk through the whole process up to creating pdf's? | 17:13 |
| aelkner | we could get into that even sooner if you'd like | 17:14 |
| aelkner | i figure the sprint would be best used for intensive back and forth | 17:14 |
| th1a | It will probably be simpler to just do it in person. | 17:14 |
| aelkner | but for now, i could walk you through how to use it | 17:14 |
| aelkner | and that way, you would know what we had before we got into how to change it | 17:15 |
| th1a | Nah, let's wait. | 17:15 |
| aelkner | you got enough things on your mind, eh? | 17:15 |
| aelkner | the release does sound complicated | 17:15 |
| th1a | I'm more concerned with looking at the new debs. | 17:15 |
| th1a | aelkner: What else is on your plate then? | 17:16 |
| aelkner | well, i got trunk merged back to my branch | 17:16 |
| aelkner | i had resolve conflicts in order to do that | 17:16 |
| aelkner | so i sent ignas an email requesting a merge back to trunk | 17:17 |
| aelkner | so that we have a clean main line once and for all | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | I don't know that anyone uses start-cando.py anymore | 17:17 |
| aelkner | th1a: anyway, i don't have any features in mind until you see what i've done | 17:18 |
| aelkner | also, do you have a picture of how the report card should look? | 17:18 |
| ignas | Lumiere: delete it | 17:18 |
| th1a | Lumiere: what should she be using? | 17:18 |
| ignas | "make run" | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | k | 17:18 |
| th1a | aelkner: I don't have a super-duper example. | 17:19 |
| aelkner | th1a: i can read over the report lab docs in the sort term, learning about format type stuff | 17:19 |
| th1a | aelkner: So what are you planning on doing the next three days? | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: can you svn delete start-cando.py in your branch | 17:19 |
| aelkner | can you tell, i'm trying to get that out of you | 17:19 |
| th1a | Well, there are some important bugs assigned to you. | 17:20 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, sure | 17:20 |
| aelkner | there are? | 17:20 |
| aelkner | let me check | 17:20 |
| th1a | Actually, lots of bugs you've fixed but not updated as well. | 17:21 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, can i do it when i upload my new fix? | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | just mention it in log | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | I am committing it to trunk | 17:21 |
| aelkner | i can update te status on the bugs | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | with a full log message | 17:21 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, ok | 17:21 |
| th1a | Anyhow, we need the default worksheet. | 17:21 |
| aelkner | i was about to inquire on that | 17:21 |
| aelkner | it is the first in the list | 17:22 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:22 |
| aelkner | i'm confused on how you want that | 17:22 |
| th1a | Let's get yvl in here -- we can discuss that bug afterwards. | 17:22 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:22 |
| th1a | yvl? | 17:22 |
| yvl | yes... | 17:23 |
| yvl | Finished cleaning up the report testing | 17:23 |
| yvl | Ignas is merging it to trunk ~now | 17:23 |
| yvl | :) | 17:23 |
| yvl | cleaning up the section linking after Ignas' feedback | 17:23 |
| yvl | so merge pending | 17:23 |
| yvl | and got sick again :| | 17:23 |
| yvl | two days out last week | 17:24 |
| yvl | sersiously, there's something floating in the air here | 17:24 |
| th1a | Here too... | 17:24 |
| th1a | What's the status with the report headers? | 17:24 |
| yvl | didn't change from last week | 17:25 |
| yvl | sorry guys | 17:25 |
| th1a | It would be good if we could get that merged before Thursday so I can look at the completed report card with header. | 17:25 |
| yvl | ok, will do | 17:25 |
| yvl | so that's it from my side | 17:26 |
| th1a | aelkner: So is the report card just a grid now? | 17:26 |
| aelkner | yeah, it has a header with just the title, and student name | 17:26 |
| aelkner | then a horizontal rule, then the table | 17:27 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | there's no logo | 17:27 |
| th1a | We'll work on the design when you're here. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | but i guess that's what yvl is working on | 17:27 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:27 |
| yvl | yep | 17:27 |
| th1a | So last night I got an interesting email from a guy who worked in the Peace Corps in Senegal. | 17:27 |
| th1a | He and some colleagues created a spreadsheet which is used as the SIS in like 100 schools in Senegal. | 17:28 |
| th1a | He sent me a copy of it. | 17:28 |
| th1a | I'm curious to see something that actually was deployed and worked in the developing world. | 17:28 |
| th1a | The nice thing is theoretically we could work up an upgrade path to import their spreadsheet. | 17:29 |
| th1a | I'll send you guys copies once I get it running. | 17:29 |
| ignas | cool | 17:29 |
| yvl | thanks! | 17:29 |
| th1a | It doesn't seem to work on OpenOffice though. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | so th1a, yvl sent me some links to get me started working on pdf testing | 17:30 |
| th1a | OK. That's something to do as well. | 17:30 |
| th1a | Have a great week, guys! | 17:30 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:31 | |
| Lumiere | th1a: I replied to the question | 17:31 |
| aelkner | you, too | 17:31 |
| yvl | tahnks, you too! | 17:31 |
| th1a | aelkner: give me a sec and then lets discuss the default worksheet thing. | 17:31 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 17:31 |
| replaceafill | brb | 17:31 |
| aelkner | th1a: ok | 17:31 |
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| yvl | aelkner, Ignas says pdf testing is merged to trunk now | 17:33 |
| aelkner | yvl: thanks! | 17:33 |
| yvl | comments are welcome; if anything broken / works weird with Reportlab - let me know | 17:34 |
| yvl | I really don't trust Reportlab :) | 17:34 |
| yvl | especially after looking at it's code | 17:34 |
| aelkner | i'll let you know if anything comes up | 17:34 |
| th1a | Someone needs an EU grant to reimplement ReportLab. | 17:34 |
| th1a | aelkner: OK, so basically when a teacher goes to the gradebook for a section the first time, "sheet1" should already exist and be visible. | 17:36 |
| aelkner | that in addition to any deployed worksheets | 17:36 |
| th1a | reportsheets? | 17:37 |
| aelkner | yeah | 17:37 |
| th1a | Yes, basically. | 17:37 |
| th1a | I'm not sure when the best time to create them is. | 17:37 |
| aelkner | yeah, i was looking at you comment in the bug report | 17:38 |
| aelkner | and i agree with your own statement that there was not a clear choice there | 17:38 |
| aelkner | could we do something that's minimal | 17:38 |
| aelkner | namely | 17:38 |
| aelkner | when you open a open office spreadsheet for the first time | 17:39 |
| th1a | That's exactly what I want. | 17:39 |
| aelkner | there's always the default sheet1 | 17:39 |
| aelkner | i got that | 17:39 |
| aelkner | so making sure that's the case is a smaller use case | 17:39 |
| aelkner | then trying to think about terms, etc. | 17:39 |
| aelkner | or marking periods | 17:40 |
| aelkner | that's where the confusion set in | 17:40 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:40 |
| aelkner | but if you think about it | 17:40 |
| aelkner | the reportsheets are really the application of that whoel marking period/term concept | 17:40 |
| aelkner | so maybe we have enough by having one default regular worksheet | 17:41 |
| aelkner | and whatever report sheets the admin sets up | 17:41 |
| aelkner | what do you think? | 17:41 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 17:42 |
| aelkner | now, as for setting up the default worksheet | 17:42 |
| th1a | I'm just saying that teachers shouldn't see a blank page the first time they go to a section gradebook. | 17:42 |
| aelkner | right | 17:42 |
| aelkner | so if we want to avoid evolution | 17:42 |
| aelkner | we would need there to be a logic in the gradebook overview itself | 17:43 |
| aelkner | that, before rendering an empty gradebook, it would create the 'sheet1' | 17:43 |
| aelkner | this would mean that the user could never voluntarily create a blank gradebook | 17:44 |
| aelkner | as any attempt to delete the last worksheet would automatically result | 17:44 |
| aelkner | in a new 'sheet1' being create | 17:45 |
| aelkner | created | 17:45 |
| aelkner | this is not necessarily bad | 17:45 |
| th1a | Can you delete worksheets now? | 17:45 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:45 |
| aelkner | not report worksheet | 17:45 |
| th1a | Huh. Was that my idea? | 17:45 |
| aelkner | which idea? | 17:46 |
| aelkner | allowing deletion | 17:46 |
| th1a | Being able to delete worksheets. | 17:46 |
| th1a | I'm not sure that's a good idea. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | getting rid of the delete capability is easy to do in the view | 17:47 |
| aelkner | but you need to be sure that once the user add a worksheet | 17:47 |
| th1a | That's makes it easy for a lot of data to go poof. | 17:47 |
| ignas | th1a: copied packages, should work :) | 17:47 |
| ignas | th1a: got to run now | 17:47 |
| th1a | thanks ignas. | 17:47 |
| aelkner | you know what? deleting worksheets isn't important to be able to do | 17:47 |
| aelkner | all they are is containers for activities | 17:48 |
| aelkner | one can change the title if one doesn't like it | 17:48 |
| aelkner | and one could remove all activities from it, too | 17:48 |
| aelkner | but i can see that allowing the deletion of the worksheet as one easy action | 17:48 |
| aelkner | would be too much ease of, "oops, i killed myself" | 17:49 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:49 |
| aelkner | i could get rid of the delete function from the worksheets overview then | 17:49 |
| aelkner | agreed? | 17:50 |
| aelkner | well, of course that's what you want | 17:50 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:50 |
| aelkner | so, how about the gradebook overview itself adding the sheet1 | 17:50 |
| aelkner | do you like that idea? | 17:51 |
| th1a | That seems fine. | 17:51 |
| aelkner | to avoid evolution | 17:51 |
| th1a | Check for a worksheet though, so that a new sheet1 won't be created if the name is changed. | 17:51 |
| aelkner | of course, my only reason to create sheet1 is if there are no sheets yet | 17:52 |
| aelkner | th1a: so until i see you on Thursday, i can work on the worksheet non-deletion and automatic sheet1 | 17:53 |
| aelkner | and i'll look over the pdf testing | 17:53 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:54 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 17:54 |
| Lumiere | th1a: does my answer make sense | 17:55 |
| Lumiere | on the cando issue? | 17:55 |
| Lumiere | she never actually clobbered anything | 17:56 |
| Lumiere | she had them running on the same port and start-cando is pre-buildout | 17:56 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:59 |
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| th1a | My immediate response is to reassure both of us that she hasn't lost her data and worry about what went wrong on Monday. | 18:00 |
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