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| replaceafill | aelkner, ping | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Lumiere | aelkner: btw, replaceafill's commit access is working now | 01:33 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: cool | 01:42 |
| aelkner | replaceafill: what | 01:42 |
| aelkner | s up? | 01:42 |
| replaceafill | hey aelkner, just a question | 01:42 |
| replaceafill | to kill a bug in cando i have to change schooltool.skin code | 01:42 |
| aelkner | you should ask ignas about doing something like that | 01:43 |
| replaceafill | i guess i need to create a branch right? | 01:43 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 01:43 |
| aelkner | how about at tomorrow's morning meeting at 9:30 | 01:43 |
| replaceafill | sure | 01:43 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 01:43 |
| aelkner | no prob | 01:43 |
| * Lumiere wonders what time it is for replaceafill right now | 01:43 | |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, one hour earlier than yours :) | 01:44 |
| Lumiere | so 8:30 am meeting | 01:46 |
| replaceafill | yes | 01:47 |
| replaceafill | brb | 01:52 |
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| Lumiere | hi all, I am planning to join you for the meeting today | 14:16 |
| Lumiere | but with the snow... I am going to be trying to get to work | 14:17 |
| Lumiere | and I may have some issues | 14:17 |
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| Lumiere | hi th1a | 16:03 |
| th1a | Good morning, Lumiere | 16:05 |
| Lumiere | snowed in... :) | 16:05 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill is committing to cando now | 16:05 |
| th1a | How much snow? | 16:05 |
| th1a | Is replaceafill snowed in? | 16:06 |
| Lumiere | lol he isn't | 16:06 |
| Lumiere | it's 5-7 and blowing here | 16:06 |
| th1a | I guess that's what we've got, more or less. | 16:07 |
| Lumiere | we're in the mid range | 16:07 |
| Lumiere | about 30 miles southeast | 16:07 |
| Lumiere | is over 10 | 16:08 |
| th1a | NYC called off school for the first time in five years. | 16:08 |
| Lumiere | and DC is 2h late ;) | 16:08 |
| Lumiere | the rest of the DC metro is off | 16:08 |
| th1a | Huh. No school here. | 16:08 |
| th1a | Rhee is just a hard-ass. | 16:08 |
| Lumiere | hah! | 16:08 |
| Lumiere | it's only 2-3 inches in town | 16:09 |
| Lumiere | maybe a little more onthe mall and ward 8 | 16:09 |
| Lumiere | but they're both flat | 16:09 |
| th1a | We had a big snow-related scandal here though that helped drive out the last superintendent. | 16:09 |
| th1a | They sent everyone home at noon and got the busses stuck in utter gridlock. | 16:10 |
| th1a | Some kids were stuck on the busses until like 9:00. | 16:10 |
| th1a | So we'll be calling school off quickly for a few years. | 16:10 |
| ignas | can I start making the "in soviet Russia" jokes now? | 16:12 |
| th1a | Please. | 16:13 |
| ignas | :) | 16:13 |
| ignas | I had school canceled like once in my life, maybe twice :( | 16:14 |
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| Lumiere | replaceafill: the answer to your question yesterday | 16:21 |
| Lumiere | 'yes' | 16:21 |
| Lumiere | ;) | 16:21 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, cool | 16:22 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, i fixed the threading thing | 16:22 |
| Lumiere | cool | 16:25 |
| th1a | Good morning replaceafill, ignas, Lumiere, aelkner. | 16:30 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:30 |
| ignas | hi | 16:30 |
| th1a | How was the weekend meeting? | 16:30 |
| aelkner | very productive | 16:31 |
| aelkner | we trnslated their lsit of user stories to launchpad | 16:31 |
| aelkner | had a very lively discussion about terms :) | 16:32 |
| th1a | Unfortunately that was when I was at dinner. | 16:32 |
| aelkner | and i got jelkner's cando instance set up with his own custom competency list | 16:32 |
| th1a | Which list is that? | 16:32 |
| aelkner | he came up with a replacement lsit for compsci 1 | 16:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:33 |
| aelkner | that basically words the existing competencies better | 16:33 |
| aelkner | but i had to give them their own global ids | 16:33 |
| aelkner | since they weren't the SAME competencies exactly | 16:33 |
| aelkner | it reminded us of the fact that we will need a feature for "translating" comps from one list to another | 16:34 |
| aelkner | even this summer, the state of vvirgina will likely come up with new global ids | 16:35 |
| aelkner | and that will require a translation from this years list to next years | 16:35 |
| th1a | You essentially need a relationship. | 16:35 |
| aelkner | we would need an xml spec | 16:36 |
| th1a | That's pretty much it, I think. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | so that they can specify the translation | 16:36 |
| th1a | In SchoolTool you can just use a relationship object. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | but under the hoos we can use schooltool.relationship | 16:36 |
| ignas | hi? | 16:36 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:36 |
| ignas | ? | 16:36 |
| aelkner | ignas: ? | 16:36 |
| * ignas is just trying to understand whether relationships are a good idea | 16:37 | |
| ignas | the hi was accidental | 16:37 |
| ignas | yeah, it might be a good idea | 16:37 |
| ignas | especially if competency list is changing year to year | 16:37 |
| aelkner | it may not always change year to year | 16:37 |
| ignas | like courses, yes | 16:37 |
| aelkner | it's just that they haven't come up with the universal list yet | 16:38 |
| aelkner | but yes, courses could change i suppose | 16:38 |
| ignas | aelkner: and you expect them to come up with a list that will not have to change? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | not that it won't change | 16:38 |
| aelkner | but that it will only change slightly year to year | 16:38 |
| * th1a is distracted... | 16:39 | |
| aelkner | as opposed to needlessly recreateing the whole lsit from scratch each year | 16:39 |
| aelkner | with new global ids | 16:39 |
| aelkner | that's what i likely to happen now unless we come up with a more permanent solution | 16:39 |
| aelkner | dwelsh is on top of this issue | 16:40 |
| aelkner | he just need to get with the state folks at some point | 16:40 |
| aelkner | he an jason, of course | 16:40 |
| th1a | Sorry... my shoveler appeared at the door. | 16:40 |
| aelkner | it's beautiful out there | 16:41 |
| aelkner | anyway, that's my report | 16:41 |
| th1a | So... much like, say, figuring out how a gradebook is supposed to work, | 16:41 |
| aelkner | oh, and i'll send that invoice today as you requested, th1a | 16:41 |
| th1a | the problem with versioning of standards is that there is not, at the bottom, a logical, rational structure. | 16:41 |
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| th1a | Nobody does it right, it is nobody's job to figure out which new standards map to which old standards, etc. | 16:42 |
| aelkner | dwelsh wants that job | 16:42 |
| aelkner | but yes, for now there isn't someone doing that | 16:43 |
| th1a | dwelsh will rue the day he thought that was a good idea. | 16:43 |
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| th1a | I mean, I marched a long way down that path myself. | 16:43 |
| Lumiere | remember that for the most point global ID dont change... just text does | 16:43 |
| th1a | I spent a year of my life on that shit. | 16:43 |
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| th1a | Here's the thing: NOBODY CARES. | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I know... standards are a mess | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | only the sysadmin cares | 16:44 |
| aelkner | well, educators care that assements carry for the student to other places of learning | 16:44 |
| th1a | I do think that it is better handled by relationships (this standard is equivalent to that) than year to year versioning. | 16:45 |
| th1a | They don't care enough to do what needs to be done. They really don't. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | well, relationships is an implementation detail | 16:45 |
| aelkner | you still need to UI for setting up those relationships | 16:45 |
| aelkner | so the user does have to get involved | 16:46 |
| th1a | OK, enough of my post-traumatic ranting. | 16:46 |
| aelkner | these user stories will be driven by the state of VA this summer | 16:47 |
| aelkner | but enough on that | 16:47 |
| th1a | Did you guys make mostly bugs or blueprints? | 16:47 |
| aelkner | mostly bugs, a couple of blueprints | 16:47 |
| aelkner | dwelsh has used bugs in the past even for small features | 16:48 |
| aelkner | like changin test on a form to being more informative | 16:48 |
| aelkner | it's not a bug by definition | 16:48 |
| th1a | That is preferable since we don't spend much time looking at blueprints. | 16:48 |
| aelkner | right | 16:48 |
| aelkner | but for the more ambitious projects | 16:48 |
| aelkner | we set up a couple of blueprints | 16:49 |
| aelkner | the opposite of low-haanging fruit | 16:49 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 16:49 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | hi | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | well, i finished grokking the basicperson package | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | and i started to fix bugs in cando | 16:50 |
| * ignas has yet to look at the basciperson | 16:50 | |
| replaceafill | i have a question | 16:51 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | in order to fix a bug, i have to modify the schooltool.skin package | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | I am hoping to move bugs toward blueprints long term | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | but i thought just of copying the template | 16:52 |
| ignas | replaceafill: if it's a bug in schooltool as well | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | it's about the title of the form | 16:52 |
| ignas | modify it, and tell me to merge it | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | ignas, is the form that allows you to add students to your section | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | right now the title says "Students" | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | dwelsh wants it to say "Students from [cours] [section]" | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: before we go too far, can you look at the enrollment view in schooltool to see if it shows that course/section information | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | if it does, then we shouldn't change the schooltool view | 16:53 |
| replaceafill | i guess it doesnt | 16:53 |
| ignas | replaceafill: hmm, which view is it? section membership one? | 16:54 |
| aelkner | yes, that one | 16:54 |
| th1a | It is fine to change that in SchoolTool. | 16:54 |
| ignas | yeah, i think so too, though the title is not set in the template | 16:54 |
| ignas | but rather in the view attributes | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | yes its the view | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | title i guess, right? | 16:54 |
| ignas | if i recall correctly | 16:54 |
| ignas | i think so | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | browser/section.py | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | so, i think i have to create a branch from schooltool trunk to do that, right? | 16:55 |
| ignas | replaceafill: if you could make it show not just titles of course and section | 16:55 |
| ignas | but rather links to the course and section | 16:55 |
| ignas | it would be perfect | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | :O | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | cool | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | i started to fix the threading view of the cando forum | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | in the message package | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | i have a question here | 16:56 |
| aelkner | yeah, that should be a fun one | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | ignas, right now the view is showing A, B, C, D, E | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | and it only should show A, C | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | i dont know how to set up a test to show that | 16:57 |
| aelkner | i don't think ignas knows the issues of that particular package | 16:57 |
| ignas | replaceafill: i have no idea what you are talking about ;) | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | i mean, i can make a test saying "is this element here" | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | its not a package issue | 16:58 |
| aelkner | ah, but you're asking about XPATH | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | its a testing issue :) | 16:58 |
| ignas | ahh | 16:58 |
| ignas | hmm, well - you will have to "select" all of them | 16:58 |
| aelkner | you can say not in | 16:58 |
| ignas | and make sure only the 2 you need are there | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | i already know what's the problem with the view | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | :O | 16:58 |
| ignas | aelkner: not reliable really, too easy to break the text by adding an unrelated "B" | 16:58 |
| aelkner | right, that's what the point fo exact testing against XPATH expressions | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, the problem was because of the way the queue works | 16:59 |
| ignas | i can't really say how it should be done witohut being able to see it though, sorry | 16:59 |
| aelkner | i understand the problem with the way the queu works | 17:00 |
| aelkner | you need to create a new tree out of the queue | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | and the view is just using the queue | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | yes, thats what i did | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | i just go to every "root" message | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | and displayed it | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | threaded | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | and it works | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | but that was a mock, now i have to write test for it | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | well, i guess that's all from me | 17:01 |
| aelkner | your test needs a case where there are more than one queued message on the same branch | 17:01 |
| aelkner | but i guess you know that | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | like diferent students? | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | sending messages to the same section | 17:02 |
| aelkner | a simple case for one student could be as follows | 17:02 |
| aelkner | message A by teacher | 17:02 |
| aelkner | rpsonse B to message A | 17:02 |
| aelkner | responses C and D by teacher and student | 17:02 |
| aelkner | and B and D are both marked as 'needing review' | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | oh yes | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | that was another question! | 17:03 |
| aelkner | that would be the test that breaks the current code | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | messages created by teachers dont need the "need review" button, right_ | 17:03 |
| aelkner | correct | 17:03 |
| aelkner | that's the other part of the same bug report | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | yes, last line | 17:04 |
| aelkner | in the current code | 17:04 |
| aelkner | A and B were being marked as 'needing review' | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:04 |
| aelkner | that's a bug in itself | 17:04 |
| aelkner | but it also exposed the redundant branch problem | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: btw... we need to get the bugs separated | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | 1 bug per report | 17:05 |
| aelkner | in pracctice, yes | 17:05 |
| aelkner | but for this time, let it get solved as one bug report | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | i understand theres two problems | 17:05 |
| ignas | aelkner: what's the difference ;) replaceafill can do the clicking ;) | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:06 |
| aelkner | dwelsh already set up the bug report as one bug | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | i know i have to fix the threading first | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | and then the review thing | 17:06 |
| aelkner | but if replaceafill wants to create two new bug reports and then report them both fixed | 17:06 |
| aelkner | that's fine | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:07 |
| ignas | aelkner: it's not the first time when dwelsh creates a bug report that reports 2 bugs/features ;) | 17:07 |
| aelkner | true, true :) | 17:07 |
| th1a | Getting civilians to write bugs at all is a win. | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | i guess i have no more questions | 17:08 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 17:08 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 17:08 |
| th1a | Lumiere:? | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | I am good | 17:09 |
| th1a | Good. | 17:09 |
| th1a | ignas? | 17:09 |
| ignas | merged all the changes (had to scrap the section event booking - quality reasons) | 17:10 |
| ignas | reviewed the code by our german friends | 17:10 |
| ignas | will have evolution script soo | 17:10 |
| ignas | soon | 17:10 |
| th1a | Is section event booking fixable? | 17:10 |
| ignas | testing with an old database at the moment | 17:10 |
| ignas | th1a: well - it's not like "fixable" the ammount of effort needed to fix it is identical to doing it from scratch | 17:11 |
| th1a | Agh. What's the problem again? | 17:11 |
| ignas | th1a: the new view is a carbon copy of one of the other views in the system with 2 methods changed | 17:11 |
| ignas | so - it needs to be refactored cleanly | 17:12 |
| ignas | also - it will not work with any considerable ammount of data i think | 17:12 |
| ignas | though that needs testing | 17:12 |
| th1a | Performance-wise, you mean? | 17:12 |
| ignas | yeah | 17:12 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:12 |
| th1a | That might be a post-1.0 fix then. | 17:13 |
| ignas | we'll see, depends on how/when Justas can start working again | 17:13 |
| th1a | Does CSV import work with the new persons/contacts? | 17:13 |
| ignas | he was on vacation last week apparantly | 17:13 |
| ignas | CSV only sets first name, last name, username, password | 17:13 |
| ignas | so it should be working | 17:14 |
| ignas | xls - includes custom demographics | 17:14 |
| th1a | Right... i meant xls. | 17:14 |
| ignas | i'll have to test it more though | 17:14 |
| th1a | What about contacts? | 17:14 |
| ignas | but last time i tried - it worked | 17:14 |
| ignas | contacts - relationships and relationship views are still not there | 17:14 |
| ignas | but I want to have it in trunk first | 17:14 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:15 |
| th1a | So if I download the trunk I'll get the updated xls? | 17:15 |
| ignas | not yet, i must commit the merge first | 17:15 |
| ignas | but yeah | 17:15 |
| th1a | OK. Let me know when that's set. | 17:15 |
| ignas | will do | 17:16 |
| th1a | Anything else? I think at this point everyone knows what they're working on for a while. | 17:16 |
| ignas | yeah | 17:17 |
| ignas | depending on how much time Justas will have i'll either have him do section resource booking | 17:17 |
| ignas | or section relating among terms | 17:17 |
| th1a | I think we'll all be happier when section linking between terms works. | 17:18 |
| th1a | So hopefully that. | 17:18 |
| ignas | aelkner: do you have any usecases on the net for linked sections? | 17:18 |
| aelkner | not yet | 17:18 |
| ignas | aelkner: i could use as much information about potential uses of the feature in gradebook | 17:18 |
| th1a | What kind of use cases? | 17:18 |
| ignas | th1a: like - having a section span 2 terms, but only get graded once in the end of the last term | 17:19 |
| aelkner | th1a: we're going to use ReportActivities to handle the case of 'grading N times" in this term | 17:19 |
| aelkner | is that right? | 17:19 |
| ignas | N times in one term - yes, i am more concerned about "there are 3 connected sections, but they only get graded once at all" | 17:20 |
| aelkner | zero times in terms one and two | 17:20 |
| aelkner | once in term three | 17:20 |
| ignas | yeah, if that's ok for you | 17:20 |
| ignas | then it's not going to be a problem | 17:21 |
| ignas | being paranoid i'd like to know of as many possible contraptions as possible ;) | 17:21 |
| * ignas hates surprises ;) | 17:21 | |
| aelkner | th1a has to say if that's a possible scenario he has in mind with using report activities | 17:21 |
| th1a | ignas: That's not an important use case. | 17:21 |
| th1a | We're still going with an extremely lightweight report card generating system. | 17:22 |
| ignas | ok | 17:22 |
| th1a | Our report card system is the web equivalent of passing out pieces of paper. | 17:22 |
| ignas | :) | 17:23 |
| aelkner | take on and pass the pile back | 17:23 |
| aelkner | one | 17:23 |
| th1a | We'll revise it next year based on complaints. | 17:23 |
| aelkner | alla XP | 17:23 |
| th1a | Some general comments from me: | 17:23 |
| th1a | We're getting a very nice amount of interest right now. | 17:24 |
| th1a | It is somewhat hidden because people looking at student information systems don't think "I'll join a mailing list or IRC channel for more info." | 17:24 |
| th1a | They generally email me or sometimes Welsh. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | and unfortunately... welsh is a bad choice to be emailed about it | 17:25 |
| ignas | or even me | 17:25 |
| Lumiere | he can answer about cando | 17:25 |
| th1a | But I think we're on track for a managably small number of real testing sites. | 17:25 |
| Lumiere | but he doesn't understand much about how st itself works (hence the terms arguement fri/sat) | 17:25 |
| th1a | Yes... that was a special case too, because terms was a more or less one time reorganization of everything. | 17:26 |
| th1a | But I'm feeling pretty good about where we are. | 17:27 |
| th1a | So... good work thus far gentlemen! | 17:28 |
| th1a | Keep it up this week! | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | th1a: that's about where we ended up | 17:28 |
| th1a | aelkner: Send me that invoice today, please. | 17:28 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:29 | |
| aelkner | just hit about to hit the send button | 17:29 |
| th1a | aelkner: Also, it would save me a step if you'd convert that to a PDF yourself. | 17:29 |
| th1a | You can print it as a pdf. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | you mean export as pdf, right? | 17:31 |
| aelkner | th1a: are you asking me to export my office doc to pdf and send you that for now oen? | 17:32 |
| th1a | aelkner: Yes. | 17:32 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:32 |
| aelkner | th1a: email sent | 17:33 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:35 |
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| * Lumiere seeks web designer ;) | 18:22 | |
| replaceafill | ignas, what suffix should i use for my branch to change the title of the enrolment view in sections? | 18:27 |
| ignas | hmm, section membership view title | 18:27 |
| ignas | i mean - letters don | 18:28 |
| ignas | don't cost much these days anyway ;) | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | :D | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | schooltool_section_membership_view_title | 18:28 |
| Lumiere | in a lot of the world they cost nothing | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | and i should branch trunk, right? | 18:28 |
| ignas | Lumiere: if you have more than 80 in one line in my code - you pay blood! | 18:28 |
| ignas | replaceafill: yeah, trunk will do | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 18:29 |
| Lumiere | ignas: is that a drop a character? | 18:29 |
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| Lumiere | I guess not | 18:59 |
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