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| th1a | Good morning all. | 16:29 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | hi | 16:30 |
| th1a | ignas, aelkner, jinty, Lumiere. | 16:30 |
| aelkner | hey | 16:30 |
| th1a | Today is a snow day here in Providence. | 16:30 |
| aelkner | you didn't send a note this time, so i was wondering if we were meeting | 16:30 |
| aelkner | how many incheds did you get? | 16:31 |
| th1a | It is still coming down. | 16:31 |
| aelkner | amazing, we didn't get a drop here | 16:31 |
| aelkner | or a flak, i should say | 16:32 |
| aelkner | flake | 16:32 |
| th1a | So, tell us about your first week at SLA, aelkner. | 16:33 |
| aelkner | it was a very productive wee,k | 16:33 |
| aelkner | i got schooltool up and running there and demoed it | 16:34 |
| aelkner | we got the rubycas server up and running | 16:34 |
| aelkner | but we had a really weird problem signing on | 16:34 |
| th1a | Signing on via? | 16:35 |
| aelkner | i had to put traces in the ruby code til i figured out what went wrong | 16:35 |
| aelkner | oh, they have a login page | 16:35 |
| aelkner | that will be the page that all apps get redirected to | 16:35 |
| aelkner | when we have the individual apps hooked up | 16:35 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 16:35 |
| th1a | You actually log directly into the CAS server. | 16:36 |
| th1a | I forgot. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | right | 16:36 |
| aelkner | so rubycas-server uses something called ActiveRecord | 16:36 |
| aelkner | a ruby equivalent to python's SQLRecord | 16:36 |
| th1a | Indeed. It is one of the cornerstones of Rails. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | or i forget what Microsoft's is called | 16:37 |
| aelkner | well, get this | 16:37 |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 16:37 | |
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| aelkner | the internals of ActiveRecord assume that if your table has a co9lumn named 'type' | 16:37 |
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| aelkner | that it is an 'inheritence' column | 16:38 |
| th1a | Is there a mailing list for RubyCAS? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | don't know yet | 16:38 |
| aelkner | so, it was choking on SLA's user table | 16:38 |
| th1a | http://groups.google.com/group/rubycas-server | 16:38 |
| ignas | th1a: there is a google code project | 16:38 |
| aelkner | i did find the google code project | 16:39 |
| aelkner | anyway, i didn't want to have to change rubycas-server code if i could avoid it | 16:39 |
| aelkner | and i didn;t want to change the user table | 16:39 |
| aelkner | as i'm sure there's plenty of code in moodle or drupal that depended on that column being there | 16:40 |
| aelkner | so instead | 16:40 |
| th1a | So you wouldn't be able to just add the table? | 16:40 |
| aelkner | ? | 16:40 |
| aelkner | i created a view | 16:40 |
| aelkner | called login | 16:40 |
| aelkner | that selected the username and cleartext colums from the user table | 16:40 |
| aelkner | and configured rubycas to use that view instead | 16:41 |
| aelkner | and it worked! | 16:41 |
| th1a | OK. So you can log in now? | 16:41 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:41 |
| th1a | Excellent. | 16:41 |
| aelkner | next step is to get moodle and drupal redirecting to it | 16:42 |
| aelkner | i will start on that today | 16:42 |
| aelkner | with Franky's help, of course | 16:42 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:42 |
| aelkner | And i'll be meeting with Marcie this week | 16:43 |
| aelkner | to discuss in detail what they need done there outside of single-signon | 16:43 |
| aelkner | so that's all i have to report | 16:44 |
| th1a | OK, I think we're off to a good start, especially in working with Franky. That's important. | 16:44 |
| aelkner | he gets busy with the students often | 16:45 |
| aelkner | so that's partly going to put it on me to get a lot of this working | 16:45 |
| aelkner | but i don't mind | 16:45 |
| aelkner | and, i will get as much help from him as i can | 16:45 |
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| aelkner | and i enjoy working with him | 16:46 |
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| th1a | Nonetheless, it is still helpful. | 16:46 |
| th1a | OK, ignas? | 16:47 |
| ignas | not too much new things this week | 16:47 |
| ignas | got access to the schooltool server | 16:47 |
| ignas | and was playing with buildbot most of the time | 16:47 |
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| ignas | had to get schooltool.ldap building on a 64 bit machine for that | 16:47 |
| ignas | later i have made an experimental split | 16:48 |
| ignas | to refactor schooltool.gradebook and schooltool.requirements into a separate egg | 16:48 |
| ignas | which seems to be working | 16:48 |
| ignas | i'd continue that way with lyceum and packages i am working on schooltool.lyceum.gradebook + schooltool.lyceum.attendance | 16:48 |
| ignas | but buildbot version available on edgy does not support bzr | 16:49 |
| ignas | i have build packages for gutsy | 16:49 |
| ignas | so that our slave could work with bzr branches | 16:49 |
| ignas | "\built" | 16:49 |
| th1a | Which server is running edgy? | 16:50 |
| ignas | tigris | 16:50 |
| ignas | schooltool.org | 16:50 |
| ignas | our buildbot master | 16:50 |
| ignas | so i can't build+test packages that are in bzr at the moment | 16:50 |
| ignas | because I don't have any edgy machines | 16:50 |
| ignas | to build a new version of buildbot deb | 16:51 |
| ignas | and schooltool.org acts weirdly if I try installing build-essentials | 16:51 |
| th1a | Hm. | 16:51 |
| ignas | and build-dep's for buildbot | 16:51 |
| ignas | it wants to remove a whole bunch of packages | 16:51 |
| th1a | jinty: Were we going to update schooltool.org? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Past edgy? | 16:52 |
| th1a | I can't remember where we are in with that. | 16:52 |
| ignas | and without automated releases tracking new eggs would be very problematic for all the users/testers | 16:52 |
| th1a | We do have demo.schooltool.org which isn't doing anything at the moment. | 16:53 |
| ignas | as for lyceum - they found a bug in our navigation menu permissions (ouch) | 16:55 |
| ignas | which i have fixed immediately | 16:56 |
| ignas | and i am working on some improvements to calendar views | 16:56 |
| ignas | removing the "TT" "Cal" thingie | 16:56 |
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| ignas | because "everyone" get's confused by what it means | 16:56 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:56 |
| ignas | and why would they care | 16:56 |
| ignas | that part should have been left to the "More..." overlay view | 16:56 |
| ignas | rather than for the front page | 16:56 |
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| ignas | seems like jinty is having problems with his network | 16:57 |
| th1a | hi again jinty. | 16:57 |
| th1a | ignas: Did you think more about what your development goal for the hardy release is? | 16:58 |
| ignas | yes, i am going for the clean up some "when you have more terms than 1" issues | 16:58 |
| ignas | and package up the new gradebook and attendance | 16:59 |
| ignas | to work without lyceum | 16:59 |
| ignas | that's why I have started working on overlays | 16:59 |
| ignas | because they are one of the most visible issues | 16:59 |
| ignas | with multiple terms having separate sets of sections | 16:59 |
| th1a | Overlays? | 17:00 |
| ignas | the list is showing all the sections you are an instructor for in the select overlay box | 17:00 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 17:00 |
| ignas | so if you spend 3 terms lecturing you will have 3x sections | 17:01 |
| ignas | which might be "less than optimal" | 17:01 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:02 |
| th1a | I just wasn't sure if there wasn't some additional Zope terminology in play. | 17:02 |
| th1a | "Skins," "overlays," etc. | 17:02 |
| ignas | yeah, it's easy to confuse the terms | 17:03 |
| ignas | as for some near plans | 17:03 |
| ignas | i am thinking of dropping libxml2 dependency | 17:03 |
| ignas | from schooltool | 17:03 |
| ignas | to make it play better with eggs buildout and cando | 17:03 |
| ignas | then move schooltool.dashboard into a separate package | 17:04 |
| th1a | I guess we don't use libxml2 THAT many places. | 17:04 |
| ignas | no, it will be easy enough to replace it with lxml | 17:04 |
| th1a | lxml is much better. | 17:04 |
| ignas | which gives one small advantage - not crashing | 17:04 |
| ignas | then i'll add a schooltool.legacy_app package for all our functional tests | 17:05 |
| ignas | that want whole old school application | 17:05 |
| ignas | with attendance, gradebook, etc. | 17:05 |
| th1a | You still have the underlying dependency on libxml2 though. | 17:05 |
| ignas | so the packages would still be tested | 17:05 |
| ignas | without schooltool depending on all the auxilary eggs | 17:05 |
| ignas | underlying? | 17:06 |
| th1a | The C library. | 17:06 |
| th1a | lxml still uses that, right? | 17:06 |
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| ignas | well - lxml is using it, but lxml will use the system one | 17:07 |
| th1a | I guess I'm not sure of what the difference is at this point. | 17:08 |
| ignas | well - we don't have to build our own libxml2 in buildouts | 17:09 |
| ignas | which we do at the moment to get working libxml2 bindings | 17:09 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:10 |
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| th1a | Hm. But lxml doesn't require building your own? | 17:10 |
| th1a | Does it just have more robust hooks or something? | 17:10 |
| th1a | jelkner: Are you going to EduCon? | 17:10 |
| ignas | yes it hooks into the library without any external C bindings i think | 17:11 |
| ignas | there is no libxml2 egg | 17:11 |
| th1a | Yes, nobody uses libxml2 anymore if they can avoid it. | 17:12 |
| ignas | :) | 17:13 |
| th1a | I tried going back. It was painful. | 17:14 |
| jelkner | th1a: yes | 17:14 |
| jelkner | and I may be bringing others with me | 17:14 |
| th1a | Cool. | 17:14 |
| jelkner | how could I miss it? | 17:14 |
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| jelkner | th1a: is the meeting over? | 17:15 |
| th1a | No. | 17:15 |
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| th1a | Do you have anything to contribute, jelkner? | 17:15 |
| jelkner | yes | 17:15 |
| jelkner | i wanted to talk about pycon | 17:16 |
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| th1a | Yes, getting that set up is on the top of my to-do list. | 17:16 |
| jelkner | it looks like we will be sending philip | 17:16 |
| jelkner | he wants to go | 17:16 |
| jelkner | and we want to send him | 17:16 |
| aelkner | it's spelled fifip | 17:16 |
| aelkner | filip | 17:16 |
| jelkner | yup, my bad | 17:17 |
| jelkner | aelkner also told me chris carrie has been checking in some code | 17:17 |
| jelkner | what about andrew? | 17:17 |
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| th1a | He's done a little work and is interested in continuing/doing more. | 17:17 |
| jelkner | so filip, andrew, and chris have all continued working? | 17:18 |
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| th1a | To a small degree. Have any of them done a lot? | 17:19 |
| jelkner | ignas? | 17:19 |
| jelkner | aelkner? | 17:19 |
| aelkner | not that i've been involved with | 17:19 |
| aelkner | i just noticed ccarey's checkin's of late | 17:19 |
| ignas | well - chris is doing some tasks at the moment | 17:19 |
| ignas | as for others - i haven't gotten any code from them | 17:20 |
| th1a | The main thing is that any work is better than no work & we should build on that. | 17:20 |
| jelkner | i understand | 17:20 |
| th1a | Andrew sent you code a few months ago, though, right ignas? | 17:20 |
| th1a | Early fall. | 17:20 |
| jelkner | but at this point, i'm trying to determine who has the skills needed to justify and invite to pycon | 17:20 |
| jelkner | our top goal for pycon will be to merge cando into schooltool | 17:21 |
| ignas | ? | 17:21 |
| ignas | could you elaborate on that? | 17:21 |
| th1a | I'm comfortable with Andrew, but he hasn't done so much with CanDo. | 17:21 |
| th1a | jelkner: Yes, you need to discuss this with ignas. | 17:21 |
| jelkner | we want cando to become a "schooltool buildout" I believe is the way Lumiere explained it to me. | 17:22 |
| th1a | I don't really think it is a plausible goal at this point. | 17:22 |
| th1a | For a sprint in March. | 17:22 |
| aelkner | i'm really hoping for UI work at the sprint | 17:22 |
| ignas | oh | 17:23 |
| ignas | hmm | 17:23 |
| ignas | but making cando a custom school | 17:23 |
| ignas | is something that would only take a couple of days | 17:23 |
| ignas | maybe less | 17:23 |
| jelkner | that would be perfect for the sprint then | 17:23 |
| ignas | not sure there is a need for sprinting | 17:24 |
| ignas | i mean - it's a single threaded task | 17:24 |
| jelkner | yes, but lets say we ask filip to work on it | 17:24 |
| aelkner | jelkner must resist the temptation to pile on things to be done | 17:24 |
| ignas | and i must fix libxml2 dependency first | 17:24 |
| ignas | so yeah - we could postpone it for the sprint | 17:24 |
| jelkner | it would great if he could do that while sitting near to ignas, aelkner, pcardune | 17:25 |
| jelkner | ok, i'm not wedded to anything in particular, but i want to begin developing a plan | 17:25 |
| th1a | The first priority for PyCon has to be whatever needs to be finished for the Hardy release. | 17:26 |
| jelkner | involving *who* we are going to bring and *what* they will do | 17:26 |
| aelkner | what about getting the interns to help with the UI? | 17:26 |
| aelkner | that worked well at the New Hampshire sprint | 17:26 |
| jelkner | that would only work if schooltool pays them | 17:26 |
| th1a | Also, we've learned that starting UI work at a sprint doesn't work if nobody is going to finish it. | 17:26 |
| ignas | jelkner: hmm, for the UI i'd say that the best thing to have is not just problems to solve, but some solutions in mind fleshed out before the sprint | 17:27 |
| jelkner | if cando pays them, they need to work on cando | 17:27 |
| ignas | th1a: but finishing UI work might be possible ;) | 17:27 |
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| aelkner | yeah, what ignas said :) | 17:27 |
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| aelkner | jelkner, schooltool UI could be considered part of cando | 17:28 |
| th1a | Well, aelkner, for next week's meeting you should work out your goals for the first bonus period. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | i thought we had those worked out | 17:28 |
| aelkner | at the meeting | 17:28 |
| th1a | You should have a sense of how long CAS integration will take. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | at sla | 17:29 |
| aelkner | by next week, sure | 17:29 |
| th1a | Well, we left it a bit open since we had no idea if CAS & PHPCAS would work. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | true | 17:29 |
| th1a | Or whether it would take two weeks or two months. | 17:29 |
| ignas | aelkner: don't forget the "single sign off" | 17:29 |
| aelkner | that would be part of it, yes | 17:29 |
| th1a | But if we add a UI switcheroo to your goals, something else will probably have to be moved around. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | if we do it at the sprint, i could be done already by the time we get back | 17:30 |
| aelkner | anyway, i figured the sprint would interrupt sla work | 17:31 |
| aelkner | no moatter what we do there, right? | 17:31 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps aelkner needs to write down a proposal for the scope of what he's envisioning. | 17:31 |
| ignas | aelkner: sprint might be a nice oportunity to do more sla work while having me nearby though | 17:31 |
| th1a | For UI. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | ignas: true, it could work out that way | 17:32 |
| aelkner | th1a: i don't have anything in mind for the UI in particular | 17:32 |
| aelkner | but we proved at New Hap | 17:32 |
| aelkner | Hampshire | 17:32 |
| aelkner | that when we put our heads together | 17:32 |
| aelkner | we were able to vastly improve cando's UI | 17:33 |
| aelkner | why not brainstorm at pycon | 17:33 |
| aelkner | in a similar fashion for schooltol's UI | 17:33 |
| th1a | Oh, I know what needs to be done to SchoolTool's UI. | 17:33 |
| aelkner | get rid of the menus? | 17:34 |
| ignas | not that i think that there are parts missing in our UI | 17:34 |
| aelkner | and make it tabbed like cando? | 17:34 |
| ignas | that are more important than improving the ones that are already there | 17:34 |
| th1a | aelkner: Essentially. | 17:34 |
| aelkner | so could we start the sprint with whiteboard sessions | 17:35 |
| aelkner | drawing up the new UI? | 17:35 |
| th1a | aelkner: We don't even need to do that. | 17:35 |
| ignas | aelkner: my suggestion would be to implement the new UI for the SLA | 17:35 |
| ignas | with actual users | 17:35 |
| ignas | and actually working implementation | 17:35 |
| ignas | and then - if it's really good | 17:35 |
| ignas | we'll push it to schooltool | 17:35 |
| th1a | The only question is whether or not you're going to re-jigger every view in SchoolTool. | 17:36 |
| aelkner | well, that was what i had in mind | 17:36 |
| aelkner | a fundimental change to the paradigm | 17:36 |
| aelkner | it would be ideal for a group effort | 17:36 |
| th1a | I'm just saying, you're going to be spending a few weeks back at SLA finishing that. | 17:36 |
| th1a | No matter what. | 17:36 |
| th1a | So if you can fit it in your schedule, fine. | 17:37 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:37 |
| th1a | Ultimately, finishing it will be your responsibility. | 17:37 |
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| aelkner | that's fine. i did that with cando's new UI, so... | 17:38 |
| ignas | well - if sla will not have any specific needs | 17:38 |
| aelkner | any specific needs that sla has could be included as overrides in their buildout | 17:39 |
| ignas | i am talking about time | 17:39 |
| ignas | paradigm shifts take a lot of programming | 17:39 |
| th1a | I don't think it is a programming paradigm shift. | 17:39 |
| ignas | UI ones take time too | 17:40 |
| aelkner | yes, it will take some time, but we will have many programmers there | 17:40 |
| th1a | Well, we'll need to know exactly what we're trying to do before we arrive. | 17:41 |
| ignas | indeed | 17:41 |
| th1a | We can't start with a whiteboard session. | 17:41 |
| th1a | Nor should we need to. | 17:41 |
| th1a | It seems to me that the only difficult point, if we're going to do this, is whether or not there have to be role-specific views. | 17:41 |
| th1a | I'd VERY MUCH like to avoid that. | 17:42 |
| th1a | Like an entirely different view on an object for teachers vs. students. | 17:42 |
| aelkner | i don't see views of objects changing so much | 17:43 |
| ignas | well - i just don't think redoing UI is something we need | 17:43 |
| aelkner | it's just the navigation to the objects that needs work | 17:43 |
| ignas | at the moment that is | 17:43 |
| aelkner | people hated using cando | 17:43 |
| aelkner | until we created the new skin | 17:43 |
| aelkner | now they love it | 17:43 |
| th1a | See, this is why I'm stressing that aelkner will have to finish this himself. | 17:43 |
| th1a | Because I know ignas doesn't want to. | 17:43 |
| aelkner | i already agreed to that | 17:44 |
| aelkner | i just thought it would be nice to put many heads together | 17:44 |
| th1a | I know... I'm just reinforcing the point ;-) | 17:44 |
| aelkner | becuase UI is a subjective subject | 17:44 |
| aelkner | and the more opinions the better | 17:44 |
| aelkner | i could see what the sla folks would prefer as well | 17:45 |
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| th1a | Well, you'll need to start working that out with them ahead of the sprint for that anyhow. | 17:46 |
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| th1a | Well, we can continue this later. Or now, but "informally." | 17:47 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:47 | |
| th1a | Let's have another great week! | 17:47 |
| jelkner | th1a: can i talk to you now? | 17:47 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:48 |
| jelkner | th1a: can you call me at 703-228-5419? | 17:48 |
| jelkner | or would it be better for me to skype you? | 17:48 |
| th1a | I can call you. | 17:48 |
| jelkner | cool | 17:48 |
| * jelkner waits for the phone to ring... | 17:50 | |
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| mgallagh_ | hey aelkner, what would you say is the best python debugger | 18:14 |
| *** mgallagh_ is now known as mattva01 | 18:15 | |
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| aelkner | mattva01: what's up? | 18:20 |
| mattva01 | what is the best way to do line by line debugging in python | 18:20 |
| aelkner | have you ever used pdb? | 18:21 |
| mattva01 | no | 18:21 |
| aelkner | so, you insert the following into your code where you want to debug: | 18:21 |
| th1a | Is there anything other than pdb? | 18:21 |
| aelkner | import pdb; pdb.set_trace() | 18:21 |
| mattva01 | yes thats what I need | 18:21 |
| aelkner | when execution reaches that point | 18:22 |
| aelkner | it will drop you into a pdb prompt | 18:22 |
| mattva01 | I realized i had used it before ,just forgot about it | 18:22 |
| mattva01 | yes | 18:22 |
| aelkner | ok, so you';re set? | 18:22 |
| mattva01 | yes, thank you | 18:22 |
| aelkner | no prob | 18:22 |
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| fstpierre | within /var/www/moodle/auth/cas | 19:02 |
| fstpierre | is config.html | 19:02 |
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| fstpierre | # ruby libraries besides ActiveRecord. | 19:27 |
| fstpierre | # | 19:27 |
| fstpierre | # With MySQL, your config would be something like the following: | 19:27 |
| fstpierre | # (be sure to create the casserver database in MySQL beforehand, | 19:27 |
| fstpierre | # i.e. `mysqladmin -u root create casserver`) | 19:27 |
| fstpierre | database: adapter: mysql database: maildb username: root password: host: localhost | 19:27 |
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