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| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5645: | 01:01 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed permission settings for Requirement and added more for InheritedRequirement. | 01:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5646: | 01:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added one more score system, which is nice for testing. | 01:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5647: | 01:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: You can now add, edit and list activities in courses and sections. | 01:09 |
| pcardune | hey srichter, I'm going to buy your book | 01:21 |
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| mgedmin | DeprecationWarning: /home/mg/src/schooltool/src/schooltool/course/browser/course_container.pt (line 67): Automatic translation of message id's is deprecated and will be removed in 3.3. Use explicit i18n:translate="" instead. | 14:31 |
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| erchache | hi | 16:52 |
| erchache | th1a|inux: are you here? | 16:52 |
| erchache | i finish translate schoolbell howtos | 16:55 |
| erchache | now im going to do schoolbell | 16:55 |
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| erchache | th1a: are you here? | 17:59 |
| erchache | i finish translate schoolbell howtos | 17:59 |
| erchache | now im going to do schoolbell | 17:59 |
| th1a | Hi erchache. | 17:59 |
| th1a | OK, I'll poke around on the server and see if I can get linguaplone running. | 17:59 |
| erchache | i have made 50% of administering schooltool....on few hours i finish it | 18:00 |
| erchache | do you know if more documents are on server? i say to translate too | 18:00 |
| erchache | After this, i publish this on guadalinex distro | 18:01 |
| erchache | ok? | 18:01 |
| erchache | www.guadalinex.org......is linux distro of my region govern | 18:01 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:01 |
| th1a | What are you translating? Are you talking about the PDF's? | 18:01 |
| erchache | we can get more users | 18:01 |
| erchache | yepa | 18:01 |
| erchache | 18:02 | |
| th1a | So... how are you editing them? | 18:02 |
| erchache | OO of course ;-P | 18:02 |
| th1a | You can edit the pdf's in OO? | 18:02 |
| erchache | i send .odp and .pdf | 18:02 |
| erchache | but i use schoobell 1.2.3 | 18:03 |
| erchache | and schooltool 0.11.3 | 18:03 |
| erchache | lastest stable versions | 18:03 |
| th1a | I presume you don't have a copy of Keynote? | 18:03 |
| erchache | im going to take a coffee on 20 minutes im here again | 18:03 |
| th1a | That's what I used to make them. | 18:03 |
| erchache | no...i dont have keynote | 18:03 |
| erchache | what is this? :-S | 18:03 |
| erchache | well....im going to take a coffeeeee....see very very soon | 18:04 |
| erchache | th1a: what is keynote? :-S | 18:25 |
| th1a | It is Apple's presentation application. | 18:25 |
| erchache | aja | 18:26 |
| erchache | but i prefer free software ;-P | 18:26 |
| erchache | i use snapshot of mac os x, gimp to save screenshot and touch details, and OO to make presentation | 18:27 |
| th1a | You're using Mac OS, too, so don't get righteous on me. | 18:27 |
| erchache | righteous on me? i cant understand.... :-S | 18:28 |
| erchache | explain better please | 18:28 |
| th1a | Don't tell me you're more holy ;-) | 18:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5648: | 18:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Initial stab at a sample data generation plugin. Based heavily on the code Tom mailed me. Unit tested, but not functionally tested, and not hooked up yet. I expect it will need a removeSecurityProxy somewhere. | 18:32 |
| erchache | my english are very very simple i think so :-( | 18:33 |
| th1a | erchache: I'm just saying you're using Mac OS, too, so you're not pure either. | 18:33 |
| erchache | ..... | 18:34 |
| erchache | i dont know what you want to say :-S | 18:34 |
| erchache | sorry | 18:34 |
| th1a | Never mind. | 18:34 |
| th1a | It isn't important. | 18:34 |
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| erchache | ooopsss.... | 18:44 |
| erchache | im become crazy with timetable schema wizard :-S | 18:44 |
| erchache | what is diferent between days and cicle? | 18:45 |
| erchache | this howto are old respect 0.11.3.... | 18:45 |
| erchache | th1a | 18:45 |
| th1a | A cycle is if the classes are based on a pattern of days other than the days of the week. | 18:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5649: | 18:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix timetable grid interaction with timezones. | 18:46 |
| th1a | I don't know of any schools outside the US that use a cycle. | 18:46 |
| erchache | no no...about design... | 18:46 |
| erchache | i dont know what meaning :-S | 18:47 |
| erchache | functionality of this... | 18:47 |
| th1a | OK. In the schools I attended, our classes didn't fall on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. | 18:48 |
| erchache | arrrrrggghhhh i close without save presentation! | 18:48 |
| erchache | fuck fuck fuck! | 18:48 |
| erchache | i lose work! | 18:48 |
| th1a | We had certain classes on "A Day" other classes on "B Day," etc. | 18:48 |
| th1a | That sucks. | 18:48 |
| erchache | ufff...only lose 3 frames :-D | 18:49 |
| erchache | uhmm...so tired to continue....tomorrow more :-S | 18:50 |
| th1a | OK. It doesn't look like it will be too hard to get linguaplone running. I'll work on it. | 18:51 |
| erchache | is only one product more....decompress into instance and restart zope daemon | 18:51 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | sample data generation is ouchfully slow | 18:53 |
| th1a | It is a lot of data. | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | 500 megs of ram eaten so far | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | (I should have tried this before I enabled section attendance in the zcml, for comparison purposes) | 18:54 |
| th1a | Oh... I took out the code that srichter added to commit to the db every 20 sections. | 18:54 |
| th1a | You should probably do that. | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | does it help much? | 18:55 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:56 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5650: | 18:57 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed implicit addition of the timezone in snapToGrid. | 18:57 |
| erchache | what happs? :-S | 19:03 |
| th1a | Hm? | 19:03 |
| erchache | memory problems about what? | 19:04 |
| th1a | Oh, when we're generating sample attendance data. | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | yay, it is "done": UnpickleableError: Cannot pickle <type 'zope.security._proxy._Proxy'> objects | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | I knew that I'll have to put the 'removeSecurityProxy' thing back | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | 655 megs of RAM used | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | my laptop hasn't even started swapping yet | 19:05 |
| th1a | Right now, we're creating an object for every time a student attends (or doesn't attend) a section. | 19:05 |
| th1a | It is thousands of objects all at once. | 19:06 |
| th1a | There are lots of ways we can optimize, though. | 19:06 |
| erchache | ooopppss | 19:08 |
| ignas | mgedmin, do you know where periods in app.browser.cal tests are comming from ? we are using a tangled web of global functions to gather such data :/ | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | yippee, I'm swapping now | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | ignas, I've no idea | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | I expect from the default timetable schema | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | ok, 20 minutes, 800 megs of RAM, 330 megs in Data.fs | 19:36 |
| th1a | Is that excusing some of the absences, or leaving them all unexplained? | 19:37 |
| th1a | I guess I can look at the code myself... | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | that's 1% of absences (instead of your 50%) | 19:39 |
| th1a | OK... so absences aren't the only problem ;-) | 19:39 |
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| mgedmin | zodb size statistics by class: http://schooltool.pastebin.com/510165 | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | (analyze.py comes with zope 2.7 and needs a slight modification to make it work on schooltool's db) | 20:07 |
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| th1a | mgedmin: Good work. | 20:15 |
| th1a | So... one semester generates half a million attendance events? | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | 540 thousand | 20:18 |
| th1a | When you look at it that way, making all those separate objects don't seem very practical. | 20:19 |
| th1a | Funny how multiplication works. | 20:20 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I think we coulf propose putting analyze.py into Zope 3; would be extremely useful I think | 20:22 |
| th1a | It seems weird that it isn't already. | 20:23 |
| srichter | yeah | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | I think there are a lot of ZODB tools in Zope 2 that are not in Zope 3 | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | I find the lack of good ZODB tools disturbing | 20:26 |
| srichter | since they are ZPL, moving and porting them should be straight forward | 20:29 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5651: | 20:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Make attendance sample data generation work (removeSecurityProxy), but comment out the ZCML to hook it up due to unreasonable hardware requirements (1 GB of RAM and 20 minutes on a 1.6 GHz Pentium M). It is time to optimize. | 20:32 |
| srichter | btw, in general we should take more time in contributing back to Zope 3 | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | that's a good sentiment | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | sometimes I get the urge to contribute back | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | then I browse the z3 collector for 10 minutes, looking for something I could do | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | and do not find anything sufficiently interesting/understandable | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | :( | 20:38 |
| srichter | I mean even feature-wise | 20:38 |
| srichter | we have the pluggable traverser, the -c/-C option in the test runner | 20:38 |
| srichter | and other small things | 20:39 |
| srichter | jinty: are you there? | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | ah, the test runner | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | yep | 20:39 |
| srichter | I really want to switch to the new one | 20:39 |
| srichter | for me my speical keys (arrows) do not work when debugging doctests | 20:40 |
| srichter | (for example) | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | that's an annoying problem | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | I blame doctests | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | they make a copy of sys.stdout at some silly point in time | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | and then use it later on, ignoring my laborously restored real one | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | there's a workaround, though | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | in a pdb prompt you can say | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | import sys, readline | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__ | 20:43 |
| srichter | :-) | 20:43 |
| srichter | the new test-runner does it right | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | and by the way, if we hack the z3 test runner to support schooltool's testsupport (the checks that see whether unit tests restore state, write to stdout, etc) | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | we will have the same problem | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | 'cause its one of the checks that wraps sys.stdout | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | I tried to make it doctest friendly, but that's impossible to do sanely or insanely | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | just look at what doctest.py does to pdb | 20:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5652: | 20:49 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fix deprecation warning. | 20:49 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5653: | 20:51 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Improved score system API to provide more useful functionality that I will need for the gradebook. This changes our strategy a little bit, but it is much more useful this way. | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | can we not use schoolool-skel for live data? | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | please? | 20:51 |
| srichter | that's fine by me; the reason I did that was so that the checkout would behave more like the instance | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | to me -skel is something that is a template for new instances | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | that is, it should not contain temporary data | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | it's like making customizations in schooltool.conf.in | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | instead of making a copy and changing that copy | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | anyway, the real reason I dislike schooltool-skel/var/Data.fs is that it is a long string to type when you want to nuke the DB | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | ;) | 20:53 |
| srichter | well sort of; it has this dual purpose | 20:54 |
| srichter | that's what I thought :-) | 20:54 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5654: | 21:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Slight optimisation: use OOBTree, indexed by dtstart, for SectionAttendance._records instead of a persistent list. Improves sample data generation speed; doesn't change memory or disk usage. | 21:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: (For testing I changed the SampleAttendancePlugin to break from the outer loop after the first two sections; attendance generation time went down from 0.49 seconds to 0.19 seconds). | 21:15 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5655: | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Okay final adjustments to the scoresystem code. | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: - Create new global score systems that reduce to a name isntead of | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: content. | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: - Change the strategoy for storing discrete score values one more time, by making it an items list, so that the order is stored for UI purposes. | 21:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 5656: | 21:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Okay, make score systems non-persistent for now. | 21:31 |
| mgedmin | yay it takes 10 minutes instead of 20 now | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | and "only" 660 megs of memory | 21:40 |
| mgedmin | data.fs is 343 mb | 21:40 |
| srichter | what did you change? | 21:49 |
| srichter | just the OOBTree instead of PList? | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | yep, rev 5654 | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | actually that rev did a little more -- AttendanceRecord.explanations is now a class attribute in 99% of cases | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | I guess the space savings come from there | 21:56 |
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| mgedmin | 260M disk/560M RAM/7 minutes now | 22:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5657: | 22:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Use tuples instead of PersistentLists. Shaves off 100 megs of RAM/disk space and 30% running time. Wow. | 22:01 |
| mgedmin | with a two-line diff (rev 5657) | 22:01 |
| th1a | Nice. | 22:02 |
| th1a | I'm going to have to start learning about how Python actually works. | 22:02 |
| mgedmin | all the way down to machine language? | 22:05 |
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| th1a | Yeah, what's the deal with all those ones and zeroes? | 22:05 |
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| mgedmin | voltage levels! | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | quantum tunneling effects in semiconductors! | 22:07 |
| th1a | Oh crap. I've never understood voltage either. | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | (are there any?) | 22:07 |
| * mgedmin doesn't grok electromagnetism | 22:07 | |
| th1a | What is that, the size of the hose or the pressure or what? | 22:07 |
| * srichter does not understna E&M either until you get to the relativistic effects and tensor notation (it's a much simpler theorem then) | 22:08 | |
| th1a | What do you specialize in, anyhow, srichter? | 22:09 |
| th1a | Physics-wise? | 22:09 |
| * mgedmin thinks sricter is an alien | 22:09 | |
| srichter | computer simulations | 22:09 |
| th1a | Of? | 22:09 |
| th1a | Gradebooks! | 22:09 |
| srichter | of the immune system response upon the infection with the HIV virus using a-priori assumptions | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | ignas came up with a clever hack that changes the numbers to 99M disk/275M RAM/4.5 minutes | 22:17 |
| mgedmin | here's the clever hack: http://schooltool.pastebin.com/510378 | 22:18 |
| th1a | srichter: Wow. That sounds like pretty intense stuff. | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | the question is: is it safe to use _v_ attributes for caching in this way? | 22:19 |
| srichter | th1a: it is a lot of fun; solving a system of 16 differential equations | 22:20 |
| th1a | Sounds like fun. | 22:21 |
| srichter | mgedmin: as long as it is all happening in the same transaction, _v_ attributes behave like any other attribute | 22:22 |
| srichter | mgedmin: ahh | 22:25 |
| srichter | it is safe as long as you do not allow SectionAttendanceRecord to be modified on a per-student bases | 22:26 |
| mgedmin | PRESENT records are never modified | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | but I do not know how to forcefully clear _v_ attributes on transaction boundaries | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | I seem to recall a discussion on zodb-dev that _v_ attrs might outlive transactions | 22:28 |
| mgedmin | or might disappear in the middle of a transaction | 22:28 |
| srichter | really? I don;t think so | 22:29 |
| * mgedmin discovers that transaction.commit after recording attendance for a single meeting is a bad idea | 22:29 | |
| srichter | the point of _v_ is to serve as a possibility for caching | 22:29 |
| srichter | if it cannot survive in a transaction, then you might as well not have it | 22:30 |
| * mgedmin goes to read http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/VolatileAttributes | 22:32 | |
| jinty | srichter: you pinged? | 22:32 |
| mgedmin | "The lifetime of a volatile attribute is unpredictable. In theory, a _v_ attribute may be destroyed at any time, and no promises are made beyond that. In practice, implementations of ZODB to date destroy volatile attributes only when unloading objects (see UnloadingObjects). Note that a volatile attribute may live beyond the duration of a transaction." | 22:32 |
| srichter | mgedmin: ok, but transaction boundaries are not that important | 22:34 |
| srichter | so I think it's ok, no? | 22:34 |
| srichter | jinty: yeah; I really want to work on the Zope 3 trunk with SchoolTool again and people referred to you to make the call | 22:34 |
| jinty | srichter: I think not for a while yet. | 22:36 |
| jinty | the major issue is that it's not a reversible decision | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | srichter, can I keep a reference to a single Persistent object, and make different Persistent objects refer to it in several different transactions? | 22:36 |
| srichter | it makes it impossible for me to fix problems in Zope 3 | 22:37 |
| srichter | that means I have to work around them in SchoolTool | 22:37 |
| srichter | which makes SchoolTool ugly and I usually forget to go back later and fix Zope 3 | 22:37 |
| srichter | both projects suffer | 22:37 |
| jinty | but there is also another side | 22:38 |
| jinty | for example, ubuntu is going to be releasing in a few months with Zope 3.2 | 22:38 |
| srichter | mgedmin: mmh, good question; I don't know | 22:38 |
| jinty | If they do not have a schooltool version that works with zope 3.2 they might have to drop schooltool for that release | 22:39 |
| jinty | or make various other nasty decisions | 22:39 |
| srichter | SchoolTool will not be ready in a few months either | 22:39 |
| srichter | SchoolTool will have a final release around August | 22:40 |
| * mgedmin tries to commit a transaction after each section; 195 megs of virtual memory (good), 170 megs of data.fs (not so good), 5.5 minutes (not so good) | 22:40 | |
| srichter | mgedmin: much better than before | 22:41 |
| jinty | Another option would be to update the previous version of schooltool to work with 3.2, but there looks to be no ntraction on that idea either. | 22:42 |
| mgedmin | before was 99M disk/275M RAM/4.5 minutes | 22:42 |
| mgedmin | so I won on memory usage, but lost on disk and time | 22:42 |
| srichter | jinty: when is the next ubuntu "feature" freeze? | 22:42 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I think keeping RAM down is more important, because once someone starts swapping, then that's it; you have a much bigger time loss | 22:43 |
| jinty | it releases in april | 22:43 |
| mgedmin | true | 22:44 |
| srichter | in APril SchoolTool will have a beta at best, so you want to ship ubuntu with a beta version of schooltool? | 22:44 |
| th1a | srichter: I think not. | 22:44 |
| srichter | my point | 22:45 |
| jinty | srichter: if there is another option, please let me know about it | 22:45 |
| th1a | I guess the versions of SchoolTool and SchoolBell in Breezy will be from the old branches. | 22:45 |
| srichter | so the next release of ubuntu will be in october | 22:45 |
| th1a | Will we need to spend some time updating them to work with 3.2? | 22:45 |
| srichter | long after Zope 3.3 and SchoolTool is out | 22:46 |
| jinty | the tests bail out now with 3.2 | 22:46 |
| jinty | if th1a says "I'll put development time behind updating the old schooltool to work with zope 3.2", i'll remove my objection. | 22:47 |
| * mgedmin wonders how it would be if schooltool used an RDBMS for data storage | 22:47 | |
| * jinty cringes in fear | 22:48 | |
| srichter | mgedmin: :-). hell. | 22:48 |
| th1a | jinty: We may have no choice. | 22:48 |
| th1a | I mean we may have to update the old branches to work with 3.2. | 22:48 |
| * th1a does think that attendance is a case where a rdbms would be more efficient. | 22:48 | |
| srichter | I think the jump is not too bad | 22:49 |
| th1a | Not that I know what I'm talking about. | 22:49 |
| th1a | It doesn't seem like updating to run on 3.2 should be hard. | 22:49 |
| th1a | It is SUPPOSED to be backward compatible anyhow, right? | 22:49 |
| jinty | maybe we can also keep our options open until that is certain | 22:49 |
| mgedmin | old sample data (no attendance) required 220 megs of ram, 2 minutes of time, and 53 megs data.fs | 22:50 |
| srichter | wait until the gradebook grades will be generated :-) | 22:51 |
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| th1a | srichter: I've already gotten this question twice today: My question is will it be possible to have more than one evaluation per | 22:52 |
| th1a | requirement? Or in techie speak, will the relationship between | 22:52 |
| th1a | requirement and evaluation be one-to-many? | 22:52 |
| th1a | Which is what we were discussing yesterday, right? | 22:53 |
| srichter | yeah, though in Mike's case he really does not want a second evaluation | 23:00 |
| srichter | he wants an annotation: exempt or not | 23:00 |
| srichter | anyways, I think that both Moodle integration and multiple evaluations are outside of this year's scope; there are bigger fish to fry for now | 23:02 |
| srichter | I think it would take a 1-2 developers till April to cover all the necessary gradebook use cases | 23:03 |
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| th1a | The Moodle stuff would be on the side, if at all. | 23:04 |
| flint | Elkner, you are killing me... | 23:04 |
| th1a | Not contract work. | 23:04 |
| th1a | Like, a real open source project. | 23:04 |
| srichter | oh, ok | 23:04 |
| th1a | Hopefully it would be relatively superficial once all the SchoolTool architecture is done. | 23:05 |
| srichter | I hope you do not believe this :-) | 23:05 |
| flint | Stephan and Tom, have any other members of the Arlington Mafia showed up? | 23:06 |
| srichter | nope | 23:06 |
| th1a | Actually, last week they were discussing not meeting every week. | 23:06 |
| th1a | I don't remember what they concluded, though. | 23:06 |
| flint | Damn, I am at this point only good for wit (maybe half of this) My lab is almost set up. | 23:07 |
| th1a | I was wondering how you were doing up there. | 23:07 |
| flint | Let me see if I can track any of them down. | 23:07 |
| flint | Tom, you made excellent suggestions in Montreal, it is merely taking a while to implement them. | 23:07 |
| th1a | srichter: I would think the Moodle integration would be as complex as you made it. | 23:08 |
| srichter | good, we agree then :-) | 23:09 |
| th1a | I think some simple steps could be taken that would be useful. | 23:09 |
| srichter | integration is always hard | 23:09 |
| srichter | because another system that you have no control over messes with your system or vice versa | 23:09 |
| th1a | Yes... well, that's why we'd reach into THEIR database ;-) | 23:10 |
| srichter | which is the reason soemthing like SIF is so very important and useful | 23:10 |
| th1a | Absolutely. | 23:10 |
| flint | ...they don't owe you any money do they? :^) I cannot track down Paul or Jeff. | 23:10 |
| th1a | You could look in last week's log to see if they decided not to meet this week: http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs | 23:11 |
| flint | Interesting idea about Moodle / Schooltool integration | 23:11 |
| th1a | Lots of people will want it. | 23:11 |
| flint | Jeez Tom I barely know how to type... | 23:12 |
| th1a | srichter: So we're going to try and hold to one assessment per activity for 1.0, unless it is clear that there are too many exceptions, but architecturally, expanding to hold more assessments won't be a problem. | 23:14 |
| flint | Moodle does have a following, Got hold of Elkner... | 23:14 |
| srichter | th1a: ok, it really becomes a matter of making it a tuple/list of evaluations then | 23:15 |
| flint | Elkner says he is going to upgrade the server to Dapper... | 23:15 |
| srichter | though I'll note that it will produce a lot of design questions | 23:15 |
| th1a | Rather than switching the keys back to using names? | 23:15 |
| srichter | (just think about the API; how do you know which evaluation you are working on, etc) | 23:16 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| srichter | we will never switch back keys to names; it is just beyond inefficient | 23:16 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 23:16 |
| th1a | I agree that it will be a bit of a UI hairball. | 23:17 |
| th1a | But I would like the architecture to be forward-compatible. | 23:17 |
| srichter | I bet you that no one really has the use case of multi-evaluation | 23:17 |
| srichter | they just want to be able to evalaute the evaluation itself | 23:17 |
| srichter | they want to say: if the score is greater than X, exempt this student from this class | 23:18 |
| srichter | and score conversion | 23:18 |
| srichter | like 90-100 = A, etc | 23:18 |
| srichter | a multi-evaluation makes only sense in a environment where you have truly different evaluators | 23:19 |
| th1a | srichter: I'm convinced that it will come up eventually. I just don't want a brick wall at that point. | 23:19 |
| th1a | Yes, and you'll have that in some cases. | 23:19 |
| srichter | right, but those are very special cases | 23:19 |
| srichter | and I think you are better off creating two activities :-) | 23:20 |
| flint | Elkner has been hauling surplus computers all over DC in an attempt to bury the Bush adminstration in Linux, and will not be joining us this afternoon. | 23:20 |
| th1a | Well, the model should accomodate sub-activities. | 23:20 |
| th1a | So perhaps that is the way to do it (post 1.0). | 23:21 |
| srichter | right, I think this would be the correct approach (two sub-sctivities) | 23:21 |
| srichter | but I see that you see that it becomes a complex issue quickly :-) | 23:21 |
| flint | By all indications, Paul and Jeff will be on next week, sbtsbc. | 23:24 |
| th1a | I don't actually think sub-activities are the right approach, because in some cases different people will be assessing the exactly the same thing. | 23:27 |
| srichter | true too | 23:28 |
| srichter | but man, multiple evaluations are hard (UI and API wise) | 23:29 |
| srichter | they were easy fundamentally in the container, but that's about it | 23:29 |
| th1a | Well, we could make them a list or tuple now, which we'll assume to be of length 1 until further notice. | 23:31 |
| th1a | Or we can make them a single object that will change into a list or tuple next year. | 23:31 |
| srichter | I think I'll leave it as it is for now | 23:31 |
| th1a | :-) | 23:32 |
| srichter | the current approach has a lot of advantages that get nullified when dealing with multiple evaluations | 23:32 |
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