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| th1a | srichter: Can I specify that in the ZMI an object should use the content view by default rather than the edit view? | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
| srichter | yeah, there is a defaultView directive | 00:42 |
| th1a | So I should specify @@contents.html? | 00:43 |
| th1a | Or perhaps without the @@. | 00:44 |
| th1a | srichter: What time to you expect to arrive tomorrow? | 00:44 |
| srichter | I think without | 00:44 |
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| srichter | we leaqve here about 7:30, so it will take 45 min to Framingham and another 60 mins (?) to you | 00:45 |
| srichter | so between 9:00-10:00 | 00:45 |
| srichter | is that ok? | 00:45 |
| th1a | Yep. | 00:45 |
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| povbot` | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4388: | 01:28 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: Tweaked container view according to suggestions on the list. | 01:28 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: Juggled the layout of the group members batch. | 01:28 |
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| povbot` | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4389: | 04:37 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: - Switched temporarly to Zope 3's `testbrowser-integration` branch so that | 04:37 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: I can make use of the new testbrowser (formerly known as mechtest). | 04:37 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: - Removed src/zc again. | 04:37 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: - Updated the functional tests. | 04:37 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4390: | 05:31 |
| povbot` | /svn/commits: fixed container sorting some container/batch ftests. | 05:31 |
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| Rick_CCS | greetings everybody | 05:59 |
| Rick_CCS | does anyone know how to change language on schoolbell? | 05:59 |
| th1a | Rick_CCS: Hi | 06:05 |
| th1a | What language do you want? | 06:05 |
| Rick_CCS | es | 06:05 |
| Rick_CCS | i install by apt | 06:05 |
| Rick_CCS | on debian | 06:05 |
| Rick_CCS | and i'm see es.py | 06:05 |
| Rick_CCS | but i don't know how to "setting up" | 06:06 |
| th1a | Spanish? | 06:07 |
| Rick_CCS | yeap | 06:07 |
| Rick_CCS | by the way, that's the best calendar that i see, best suits the need of the college here on venezuela | 06:08 |
| Rick_CCS | but teachers don't know exactly good english | 06:08 |
| th1a | Excellent. | 06:08 |
| th1a | Of course. | 06:08 |
| Rick_CCS | so, i prefer change it to spanish | 06:08 |
| th1a | There is a Spanish translation. | 06:08 |
| th1a | I don't know exactly what you have to do to make it work, unfortunately. | 06:09 |
| Rick_CCS | yeap! i locate on /usr/lib/libschoolbell/utilsdocs | 06:09 |
| Rick_CCS | opssssssssss | 06:09 |
| Rick_CCS | that's a shame!!!!!!! | 06:09 |
| Rick_CCS | because i'm trying to analyse the code but no sucess on that!!!!!!!!!! | 06:09 |
| th1a | srichter: ayt? | 06:10 |
| th1a | There are lots of other non-English speakers on the project. Most of them are asleep right now, however. | 06:10 |
| th1a | Europeans. | 06:10 |
| Rick_CCS | ohhhh, trying to locate one tomorrow then! | 06:10 |
| Rick_CCS | thanks a lot | 06:11 |
| th1a | Try in the morning. | 06:11 |
| Rick_CCS | hi again | 06:39 |
| Rick_CCS | i'm testing the system with explorer and mozilla | 06:39 |
| Rick_CCS | on mozilla looks fine everything | 06:39 |
| Rick_CCS | but on explorer, when you try the week vista, this going down down a let a blank space betwen toolbar and week data | 06:40 |
| Rick_CCS | is that a bug? | 06:40 |
| th1a | It is a bug. I think it has been fixed in the new release. We'll have a testing version on Tuesday. | 06:40 |
| Rick_CCS | ohhh all right | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | thanks a lot | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | on other matters, on console | 06:41 |
| th1a | No problem. | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | how can you determine the version of a package with apt? | 06:41 |
| th1a | I don't know. | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | apt-cache doesn't show the version | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | oki | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | sorry bother you about that ;) | 06:41 |
| th1a | The new version tells you in the web interface. | 06:41 |
| Rick_CCS | this is the info below | 06:42 |
| Rick_CCS | © The Shuttleworth Foundation 2003 - 2005: Supporting Social Innovation. | 06:42 |
| Rick_CCS | SchoolTool™ is a Trademark of The Shuttleworth Foundation. | 06:42 |
| th1a | Right... the *new* version (out next week) tells you which version it is. | 06:42 |
| Rick_CCS | ahhhhhhhhhhhhh | 06:42 |
| Rick_CCS | jejejeje sorry! | 06:42 |
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| erchache | hi | 16:07 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4391: | 17:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: display logic | 17:05 |
| * tvon hates @ ftests | 17:26 | |
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| mgedmin | mechanize will make ftests easier, hopefully | 17:29 |
| tvon | yeah, I'm looking forward to that | 17:29 |
| pcardune | sorry, it seems I have missed the conversation, but has the mechtest package made it into the zope svn repository? | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | I think so, let me check | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | it was renamed to something else btw | 17:35 |
| tvon | testbrowser | 17:35 |
| th1a | In zope.app.testing. | 17:36 |
| th1a | testbrowser. | 17:36 |
| th1a | srichter is here with me. | 17:36 |
| th1a | In the inner sanctum. | 17:36 |
| tvon | I saw it removed the other day.. yesterday perhaps... I don't see it in there now | 17:36 |
| pcardune | thanks | 17:38 |
| tvon | mgedmin: heh, I was wondering if that use of sortby would raise alarms or not | 17:50 |
| * tvon fixes | 17:50 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4392: | 17:50 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: person/groups batching | 17:50 |
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| tvon | hrm, could put sorting in batch | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | that's not a bad idea | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | (unless we want to eventually refactor batching in zope3 from bugtracker.batching to zope.batching and then switch to that one instead of rolling our own) | 18:04 |
| tvon | as it stands to use bugtracker.batching I'd have to either subclass it or move some functionality around | 18:05 |
| tvon | well, if it gets moved into main then I'd subclass it | 18:05 |
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| tvon | hrm, should Batch.sortBy(attr) return a new batch or sort itself? | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | don't | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | if the API is not obvious, then it is not very good | 18:19 |
| tvon | what do you mean? | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | my, that sounded ... um... pompous, didn't it? ;) | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | how about this: | 18:20 |
| tvon | not sure what you meant by "don't", it wasn't a yes or no question :) | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | batch = Batch(some_list, sort_by='title', start=42, size=15) | 18:20 |
| tvon | ahh | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | I think a method 'sortBy' of the Batch class is not a good idea | 18:21 |
| tvon | gotcha | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | OTOH, how is my last example different from | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | batch = Batch(sort_by(some_list, 'title'), start=42, size=15)? | 18:21 |
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| mgedmin | less parentheses, perhaps | 18:22 |
| * mgedmin shrugs | 18:23 | |
| mgedmin | either is fine | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | by the way, what do you think about making Batch() accept arbitrary iterators | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | i.e. Batch.__init__ could do self.list_or_whatever = list(iterable_argument) | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | then you would not need to be careful about explicitly converting container.values() into a real list before passing it to Batch | 18:24 |
| tvon | (one sec) | 18:24 |
| mgedmin | (I admit I do not know/remember why that conversion was necessary) | 18:24 |
| * mgedmin about to go eat something in a place that has no wifi | 18:24 | |
| tvon | yeah, it should take iterables | 18:25 |
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| tvon | I'm working in a coffee shop where some friends work | 18:27 |
| * tvon hasnt paid for coffee in ages | 18:27 | |
| * tvon is spoiled | 18:27 | |
| pcardune | is there some trick to getting mechanize to work? I try to build it, and it is looking to import BaseHandler, but doesn't find it... strange | 18:32 |
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| jelkner | pcardune: hey paul, you here? | 18:36 |
| th1a | pcardune: there is nothing special to it; | 18:41 |
| th1a | but you need the branch testbrowser-integration | 18:41 |
| th1a | you also need the packages: mechanize, pullparser, ClientForm and ClientCookie | 18:42 |
| th1a | if you look at the srichter-workflow SchoolTool branch, it uses this version of Zope and has a testbrowser test in src/schooltool/level/browser/README.txt | 18:43 |
| th1a | That was srichter typing, by the way. | 18:44 |
| pcardune | ah, yes, i discovered about the extra packages | 18:45 |
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| pcardune | where do i get testbrowser-integration? | 18:46 |
| pcardune | (looking for it now) | 18:46 |
| pcardune | jelkner, I'm here | 18:46 |
| jelkner | don't mean to interrupt, keep doing what you're doing | 18:47 |
| jelkner | pcardune: let's talk about import/export | 19:03 |
| pcardune | jelkner: ok | 19:03 |
| jelkner | we agreed last week that we are going to store everything in a pickle file, yes? | 19:04 |
| pcardune | jelkner: yes, that is done | 19:04 |
| pcardune | for a few different objects | 19:04 |
| jelkner | really? | 19:04 |
| jelkner | cool! | 19:04 |
| pcardune | we can now export score system objects, and competecny *group* objects | 19:04 |
| pcardune | and we can even export their containers (meaning, multiple competency group objects all stored in one pickle file) | 19:05 |
| jelkner | we are going to want to export all user entered data | 19:05 |
| jelkner | and, yes, a single file would be ideal | 19:05 |
| jelkner | it would make backup and recovery easier from a user's point of view | 19:05 |
| jelkner | what did you name the file | 19:06 |
| jelkner | cando.dat | 19:06 |
| jelkner | ? | 19:06 |
| eldar | where is the default manager for schooltool defined? | 19:06 |
| eldar | the manager/schooltool one | 19:06 |
| pcardune | ummm, ctd or something | 19:06 |
| pcardune | i was going to change that | 19:06 |
| pcardune | well, it doesn't do *that* yet | 19:06 |
| pcardune | i thought i would build import export from the ground up | 19:07 |
| jelkner | what do you mean, "from the ground up?" | 19:07 |
| pcardune | so first i worked on exporting individual objects, then their containers... and the next step is to export individual evaluation objects.... then their containers... then eventually everything at once | 19:07 |
| pcardune | this way we keep the functionality of being able to export individual objects (which is still useful) as well as being able to export everything | 19:08 |
| jelkner | what will the ui be like for that? | 19:08 |
| pcardune | simple | 19:08 |
| jelkner | eldar, are you setting up the instance for today's meeting? | 19:09 |
| pcardune | if you are looking a single object, and click "export" it exports the single object | 19:09 |
| jelkner | cool | 19:09 |
| pcardune | if you are looking at a list of those objects, and click export... it exports all the objects into one file | 19:09 |
| pcardune | it exports whatever context you are in | 19:09 |
| jelkner | what about if i am setting up a new server, or you are making some major architectural change to cando, and i want to export *everything* i've done | 19:10 |
| jelkner | ? | 19:10 |
| pcardune | we're not there yet | 19:11 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4393: | 19:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Allow sorting the batch by providing an optional argument to the constructor. | 19:15 |
| jelkner | i don't see any reason not to just use a pickle file for all the data, do you? | 19:16 |
| pcardune | no absolutely not | 19:17 |
| pcardune | the way i have implemented it is... | 19:17 |
| pcardune | every python object has an import/export method which deals only with python objects... mostly dictionaries | 19:17 |
| pcardune | so when i call the export method of the object, it returns a dictionary to me | 19:17 |
| pcardune | so if i am exporting a container, i get a dictionary with a list of dictionaries that represent the individual objects' data | 19:18 |
| jelkner | so the problem of exporting everything, is making sure you call the export methods on everything? | 19:18 |
| pcardune | its sort of like a tree of exports | 19:18 |
| jelkner | have you asked for any feedback on how best to do that? | 19:19 |
| pcardune | in the root directory, we call the export method of all the objects in the root directory (including other directories) which subsequently call export methods on objects in there... so on and so on... so we end up with a really deep python dictionary that holds everything | 19:19 |
| pcardune | i've done it already | 19:19 |
| jelkner | cool | 19:19 |
| jelkner | so what isn't done? | 19:19 |
| pcardune | i'm just explaining to you how i've done it | 19:19 |
| pcardune | we just need to implement the import export for evaluations | 19:20 |
| pcardune | and then for the root candotoo directory where all the candotoo objects live | 19:20 |
| pcardune | although that is a bit tricky | 19:20 |
| pcardune | because there is no data stored in evaluations... except score data... otherwise, it is just a bunch of relationship properties | 19:21 |
| pcardune | exporting isn't as much a problem as importing | 19:21 |
| pcardune | example... | 19:21 |
| jelkner | oh, btw, it is time to switch from candotoo to simply cando | 19:21 |
| pcardune | ok... | 19:21 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4394: | 19:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removing the yuck, adding batch side sorting | 19:22 |
| jelkner | and how do we handle the cvs thing? | 19:22 |
| pcardune | just leave it | 19:22 |
| pcardune | for now | 19:22 |
| pcardune | (it really really needs to be cleaned up) | 19:22 |
| pcardune | anyways, on with the example: | 19:22 |
| jelkner | i would like to move the old version into some folder where it can grow old and dye in peace | 19:22 |
| pcardune | dye? what color? | 19:23 |
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| pcardune | (sorry) couldn't resist | 19:23 |
| jelkner | blue | 19:23 |
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| pcardune | i can hear you laughing | 19:23 |
| ignas | hi | 19:23 |
| eldar | hey | 19:23 |
| jelkner | and make the new version the root of the repository | 19:23 |
| pcardune | anyways, so , i have an evaluation objects with links to a score system, to people, to sections to competency groups, when i export, i wont export the objects it is connected to, only their unique identifiers | 19:24 |
| pcardune | when i import that evaluation, i will expect to find those objects, based on the identifiers | 19:24 |
| pcardune | now what if they aren't there? | 19:24 |
| pcardune | do we make them? | 19:24 |
| pcardune | what if they are there, but they are in fact different objects? | 19:25 |
| pcardune | do we overwrite them? | 19:25 |
| jelkner | ok, at first we do the simplest thing that works | 19:25 |
| jelkner | we assume that we get what we expect to get | 19:25 |
| pcardune | and just throw out an error if we don't | 19:25 |
| pcardune | and let the end user decide what to do | 19:26 |
| jelkner | will that work? | 19:26 |
| pcardune | ok, that can be done | 19:26 |
| jelkner | let's try that | 19:26 |
| pcardune | that's *easy* | 19:26 |
| jelkner | easy is good! | 19:26 |
| jelkner | ok, paul, you ready to talk about portfolios? | 19:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4395: | 19:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: don't restrict the batch to lists. | 19:36 |
| pcardune | yep | 19:36 |
| pcardune | lay it on | 19:36 |
| jelkner | ok, dave will really just want a way to link somewhere | 19:37 |
| jelkner | so for the feature freeze first version, that's all we really need | 19:37 |
| pcardune | yeah, that will be about a 15 minute feature add... | 19:37 |
| jelkner | good, can you do that now? | 19:38 |
| pcardune | sure | 19:38 |
| jelkner | i will want *a lot* more, but that will all wait until september | 19:38 |
| pcardune | well, tell me about what you want now, so i can start thinking about implementation (in september) | 19:39 |
| jelkner | just to give you an idea, i want portfolio objects that relate to competencies | 19:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4396: | 19:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: remove now-redundant list() usage | 19:39 |
| jelkner | but let's talk about all that later | 19:39 |
| pcardune | ok | 19:40 |
| pcardune | jelkner: what kind of terminology do you want to use for this link deal? | 19:40 |
| pcardune | what is it exactly? | 19:40 |
| jelkner | so let me stop talking an wait for you to get the portfolio links added | 19:40 |
| jelkner | how about "portfolio link" | 19:41 |
| tvon | #$!@@# | 19:46 |
| tvon | ah, nm | 19:47 |
| pcardune | #$!@@#? | 19:50 |
| tvon | I thought I had a big annoying problem, but I was wrong | 19:50 |
| tvon | ("#$!@@#" is short for "a lot of nasty words") | 19:51 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4397: | 20:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: ApplicationPreferences for schooltool (that don't come with a 'SchoolBell' title) | 20:02 |
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| tvon | isn't the section title missing from the section views? | 20:29 |
| tvon | the section container view anyways | 20:31 |
| * tvon shrugs | 20:31 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4398: | 20:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Container searching in ST | 20:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: The section container does not currently display the section title (which is what I'm searching on) is this intentional/correct? | 20:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4399: | 20:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: course container searching | 20:39 |
| pcardune | this might be a stupid question, but how do you use svn branches? | 20:46 |
| tvon | svn cp | 20:46 |
| pcardune | downloading them | 20:47 |
| pcardune | anonymously | 20:47 |
| ignas | tvon, ping | 20:47 |
| tvon | ignas: hey | 20:47 |
| pcardune | don't answer my question, i'll figure it out with trial + error | 20:47 |
| tvon | pcardune: a branch is just a different URL than the trunk | 20:47 |
| tvon | url/path | 20:47 |
| tvon | http://source.schooltool.org/svn/ | 20:47 |
| tvon | you can take the URL from the browser there and pass it to 'svn co' | 20:48 |
| tvon | svn co http://source.schooltool.org/svn/trunk/schooltool/ | 20:48 |
| tvon | svn co http://source.schooltool.org/svn/branches/srichter-workflow/ | 20:48 |
| pcardune | but when i check it out, i should be where? in my schooltool directory? | 20:50 |
| pcardune | or is it like a totally different thing? | 20:50 |
| pcardune | (thing == checkout) | 20:50 |
| tvon | its a new checkout | 20:50 |
| tvon | ignas: ? | 20:51 |
| ignas | yep | 20:51 |
| ignas | sorry | 20:51 |
| ignas | multithreading | 20:51 |
| tvon | np | 20:51 |
| ignas | about section titles | 20:51 |
| tvon | yeah, am I on crack or is there something missing? | 20:52 |
| ignas | what is the status - are we still using obnoxious labels ? | 20:52 |
| tvon | yeah, right now it's "instructor(s) - course" | 20:52 |
| ignas | like - sectionas are a special case - they do not have a meaningfull title, you should not ever see their container, and yada yada | 20:52 |
| tvon | section title is not displayed anywhere in the container view, but then again .... yeah, I'm not sure what we are doing with the container view | 20:53 |
| ignas | though iirc someone raised an idea that we should use title, but make title a property | 20:53 |
| * mgedmin reads about people using pickles as a data format | 20:54 | |
| * mgedmin thinks that's not a very good idea | 20:54 | |
| * mgedmin remembers something that malicious pickles may cause arbitry code to be executed on the process that tries to load them | 20:55 | |
| tvon | ignas: well right now the container view has searching, which searches on title, but the title is not displayed.... I"m open to changing that of course | 20:56 |
| tvon | I don't want to get too involved until after the RC though | 20:56 |
| tvon | on an unrelated note: Where should I look to change default ACL settings on the application object? | 20:57 |
| ignas | tvon, well the flip label->title was discussed just before our last RC, and it was postponed, and forgotten :/ | 20:58 |
| tvon | heh | 20:58 |
| ignas | though - yes i think the change might touch too many areas, to do before RC | 20:59 |
| tvon | should we just display the title? or 'title - course' ? | 20:59 |
| tvon | k | 20:59 |
| ignas | unit tests theorethically should make it safe enough though :D | 20:59 |
| pcardune | mgedmin: that is very interesting, i didn't know about that | 21:01 |
| pcardune | mgedmin: although i think for now we are safe, since *noone* is using our software, and it will be at least a year until some kid smart enough to know how to make malicious pickle files ever uses our system in an environment where it matters (and by then we'll be using xml i think) | 21:02 |
| ignas | oooh | 21:03 |
| ignas | i am scared already | 21:03 |
| pcardune | i definitly am for making title a property... the labels really don't make that much sense | 21:04 |
| ignas | yep look at the section container - generic container template diff | 21:04 |
| pcardune | zope checkouts take *forever* | 21:10 |
| pcardune | why cant it generate a tarball after every checkin, then checkouts download the tarball, unpack it, and you're ready to go | 21:11 |
| pcardune | adios | 21:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4400: | 21:31 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: Batching for section instructor add/remove view. | 21:31 |
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| bskahan | ignas: if we get a clear consensus on what to do with section title vs. labels I'll implement it | 21:55 |
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| bskahan | the initial story (last release) specified identifying sections by course, teacher | 21:56 |
| bskahan | I added titles this release cycle so that schools could also have section codes in whatever format they want | 21:57 |
| bskahan | unfortunately, I think when people talk about a section they often refer to it by something like our label, but in printed schedules it seems quite a few schools use a code | 21:58 |
| th1a | If schools actually have codes for sections, that changes things. | 22:05 |
| th1a | I suppose this might be my small-school bias. | 22:05 |
| * bskahan saw the schedules for NYPSS in june | 22:05 | |
| th1a | I mean, thinking they didn't have codes might be my bias. | 22:05 |
| th1a | Of course, those codes still aren't meaningful to humans. | 22:05 |
| bskahan | the next day I added the codes | 22:05 |
| bskahan | not really, but it was a bug factor | 22:06 |
| th1a | You might say "I've got CS101 next period." But you'd never say "I've got 25352" next. | 22:06 |
| bskahan | s/bug/big | 22:06 |
| bskahan | CS101 is a code | 22:06 |
| bskahan | the trick is that courses might have codes too | 22:06 |
| bskahan | CS101-001 would be common to universities | 22:07 |
| Aiste | th1a: did you receive my emails with invoice? | 22:07 |
| th1a | Aiste: Yep. I'll send those in before I leave. Stephan has to make one for me, too. | 22:08 |
| Aiste | good | 22:08 |
| Aiste | I mixed up the dates in the first one, so just throw it away :) | 22:08 |
| th1a | It's in GMail, so it will live forever. | 22:08 |
| bskahan | we could support the university model with deptartment, course, section codes (that would require having 'departments' though) | 22:09 |
| mgedmin | th1a, I keep forgetting about the Oxford hotel bill | 22:09 |
| mgedmin | so far I haven't heard from anyone regarding it | 22:10 |
| th1a | What is the last thing that happened with it? | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | I sent you the scanned bill | 22:11 |
| *** bskahan has quit IRC | 22:19 | |
| th1a | You sent me the scanned bill? | 22:30 |
| th1a | Well... send it to me again. | 22:31 |
| th1a | I don't remember one way or another what I did with it. | 22:31 |
| th1a | If you don't have it I can look for it. | 22:31 |
| th1a | Should be in GMail somewhere. | 22:32 |
| th1a | OK, mgedmin? | 22:32 |
| mgedmin | ok | 22:38 |
| mgedmin | I'll just resend the same message | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | I wonder what'll happen to its Date header | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | and where gmail will place it... | 22:40 |
| mgedmin | fwiw the subject is "Re: Fwd: Reimbursed Expenses" | 22:41 |
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| erchache | hi | 22:48 |
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| th1a | mgedmin: I got the scans, but I don't have a copy of the spreadsheet. | 22:53 |
| Aiste | th1a: he just left for home :) | 23:04 |
| th1a | OK. I'll send him an email. | 23:05 |
| Aiste | :) | 23:05 |
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| tvon|x31 | erm... did my response to gintas on the list come through as complete gibberish? | 23:38 |
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