| th1a | The point of SchoolBell was to attract some broader interest and developers. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | If it doesn't do that (and I've got to say it really hasn't so far), then it isn't helping us going forward. | 00:01 |
| srichter | I seee | 00:01 |
| alga | in EuroPython, several people have asked me whether SchoolBell has email notifications | 00:04 |
| alga | I invited them to go and contribute them :-) | 00:04 |
| srichter | LOL :-) | 00:05 |
| srichter | I bet you never heard of them again | 00:06 |
| alga | nope | 00:07 |
| th1a | Yeah... we didn't quite have time to squeeze them in, but it is really a pretty low hanging fruit. | 00:07 |
| th1a | If nobody has stepped forward to do that, it is a sign that this isn't taking off. | 00:09 |
| srichter | yeah | 00:11 |
| srichter | I think there are too many calendaring solutions out there | 00:11 |
| alga | well, there are ~11 people subscribed for schoolbell in freshmeat | 00:11 |
| srichter | I think with schooltool it will be different, once a critical mass is there | 00:11 |
| alga | over 3000 record hits and over 1500 url hits | 00:12 |
| srichter | sicne I do not know freshmeat stats that much, is that a lot? | 00:12 |
| th1a | A lot happened in the calendaring space between the conception of SchoolBell and when it was released. | 00:12 |
| th1a | There were fewer options a year ago. | 00:13 |
| alga | true... | 00:13 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4378: | 00:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Now the historical record also keep track of the user id. | 00:32 |
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| pcardune_ | is there a way to overide previous zcml directives? | 00:42 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * srichter committed revision 4379: | 01:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed really horrible traverser code and wrote a test for it. | 01:02 |
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| srichter | yes, see overrides.zcml in Zope3 | 02:07 |
| srichter | dunno whether something liek that is setup in ST | 02:07 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4380: | 10:18 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: fetch batch_size/batch_start from request if available. | 10:18 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4381: | 10:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Batching for group members view. | 10:20 |
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| erchache | hi | 10:50 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4382: | 11:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Batching for schoolbell containers. | 11:37 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4383: | 12:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Batcing for schooltool containers | 12:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4384: | 12:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Whitespace and i18n | 12:45 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4385: | 13:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: i18n | 13:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4386: | 13:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Improve the search test. | 13:37 |
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| erchache | hi | 15:29 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4387: | 15:48 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Slight tweaks to traceback 'pre'. | 15:48 |
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| mgedmin | gintas just showed me the person index with 1000 persons | 16:06 |
| mgedmin | 100 links to page numbers at the top does not look very good | 16:06 |
| mgedmin | now imagine 35000 users... | 16:06 |
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| tvon | yeah, I'm aware of the issue but havent thought of a nice solution | 16:10 |
| tvon | basically we ned to show the previous x and next x links | 16:11 |
| tvon | eg 'previous ... 34 35 36 37 38 39 ... next' | 16:11 |
| erchache | mgedmin: i send my public key now to your mailbox | 16:13 |
| mgedmin | tvon, there's a bug with batching and sorting | 16:15 |
| tvon | oh? | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | you sort just the batch, not the whole list | 16:16 |
| tvon | hrm | 16:16 |
| tvon | thats not so good | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | so the user may see A..Z on one page, then go back to A on the next | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | you won't usually see this because the container is a BTree | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | and it lists objects sorted by __name__ | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | and __name__ is derived from title by default | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | however if you change a person's title, you will see the incorrect order | 16:17 |
| tvon | ah | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | 742 unread checkins in the mail | 16:31 |
| mgedmin | 742 unread checkins in the mail | 16:31 |
| mgedmin | take one down, review it around | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | 741 unread checkins in the mail | 16:32 |
| * mgedmin sighs | 16:32 | |
| tvon | heh | 16:32 |
| th1a | srichter: Are the mechanize ftests in your subversion branch? I can't find them. | 17:10 |
| srichter | yes | 17:12 |
| srichter | schooltool/level/browser/README.txt | 17:12 |
| srichter | th1a: see above | 17:12 |
| th1a | Aha. Apparently I've gone blind. Sorry. | 17:13 |
| srichter | Benji and I are cleaning up the the mechtest (now called testbrowser) package right now | 17:14 |
| th1a | Cool. | 17:14 |
| mgedmin | erchache, what you sent me was not a SSH public key | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | I don't know what it was | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | some sort of PKCS certificate perhaps | 17:17 |
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| erchache | no? | 17:38 |
| erchache | is a x.509 no? | 17:38 |
| erchache | yeah | 17:38 |
| erchache | is ssl certificate for web and mail applications | 17:38 |
| erchache | i can create my own with mac os x | 17:39 |
| erchache | is this enough? | 17:39 |
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| mgedmin | erchache, no, I need an SSH public key | 17:44 |
| mgedmin | $ ssh-keygen -t rsa | 17:44 |
| erchache | ok ok | 17:44 |
| mgedmin | then mail me ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | 17:44 |
| erchache | wait im working on other things | 17:45 |
| erchache | :D | 17:45 |
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| erchache | mgedmin: see mail again | 18:07 |
| erchache | :D | 18:07 |
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| mgedmin | erchache, you should now be able to get a writeable checkout | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | svn co svn+ssh://erchache@source.schooltool.org/svn/schooltool/trunk/schooltool | 18:14 |
| erchache | hehehehe i need to install svn for mac os x | 18:34 |
| erchache | ;P | 18:34 |
| erchache | pufffff installing subversion via dports......tooooooo slooooooowwwww | 18:53 |
| * mgedmin googles | 18:54 | |
| mgedmin | http://metissian.com/projects/macosx/subversion/ | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | http://wiki.ehow.com/How-to-Install-Subversion-on-Mac-OS-X | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | http://scplugin.tigris.org/ | 18:54 |
| srichter | Resource for MAc OS X: th1a | 18:56 |
| srichter | :-) | 18:56 |
| th1a | I can never remember which method I used. | 18:57 |
| Aiste | I used darwin ports -- no problem | 18:58 |
| erchache | arrrrgghhh compiling apache....db4.....all necesary packages.....shit | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | erchache, you do not need apache for the SVN client | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | (although you might need some libnspr library that is part of apache, I'm not sure about that) | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | no, libnspr is a netscape thing, I meant libaprutil or libneon... waaah, whatever | 19:01 |
| erchache | i know :( | 19:02 |
| th1a | srichter: testbrowser requiring Python 2.4 might be a bit of an issue. | 19:04 |
| srichter | th1a: really? Even for the next ST release? | 19:04 |
| srichter | beginning on Friday we will require 2.4 on Zope 3 trunk anyways | 19:05 |
| srichter | (however, I could backport the code, if necessary) | 19:05 |
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| th1a | Well, there always seem to be packaging related issues that I never think of. | 19:05 |
| srichter | I see | 19:06 |
| th1a | Seems like the kind of thing jinty will complain about. | 19:06 |
| srichter | we'll ask jinty when he comes back | 19:06 |
| mgedmin | previously we explicitly supported python 2.3 | 19:06 |
| th1a | No need to panic yet. | 19:06 |
| srichter | right | 19:06 |
| srichter | You probably want to switch to the Zope 3.1 brnach on Friday | 19:07 |
| srichter | it will support 2.3 | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | the plan was to track zope 3 trunk until 3.1 was released, then stick to 3.1 | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | it may be flawed if we start using mechtest and it does not get into 3.1... | 19:08 |
| th1a | That's true, mgedmin. | 19:08 |
| srichter | in that case I'll backport it for 3.1 | 19:08 |
| th1a | I think it would be worth it. | 19:08 |
| srichter | I think mechtest easily cut my ftest development time into half, if not a third | 19:09 |
| th1a | And it is so readable. | 19:09 |
| srichter | yes | 19:09 |
| th1a | I just sent an email to the schoolforge-uk mailing list extolling the virtues of DocTests. | 19:10 |
| srichter | extolling? (my dictionary does not have this verb) | 19:11 |
| th1a | You know what would be cool: a plugin for Dia that let you make wireframes that would be converted to a mechtest document. | 19:11 |
| srichter | Dia is GNome's Powerpoint, right? | 19:12 |
| srichter | and what is a wireframe? | 19:12 |
| th1a | srichter: Mine says "praise enthusiastically." | 19:12 |
| srichter | ok | 19:12 |
| th1a | Dia is the free Visio. | 19:12 |
| th1a | DIagrams. UML, etc. | 19:12 |
| srichter | ahh, ok | 19:12 |
| srichter | yeah, I use a different set of tools | 19:13 |
| th1a | WIreframe is sort of a sketch of the web ui elements and flow. | 19:13 |
| th1a | So do I ;-) | 19:13 |
| srichter | ah, ok | 19:13 |
| th1a | I'm just being politically correct by referring to the free tool. | 19:13 |
| th1a | I use and love OmniGraffle. | 19:13 |
| th1a | A piece of software worth giving up your freedom for ;-) | 19:14 |
| srichter | (I use all free tools, but they are either KDE apps or OpenOffice ;-) | 19:14 |
| srichter | does it run on Linux? | 19:14 |
| th1a | No. Mac only. | 19:14 |
| th1a | The shop that makes it are actually old NeXT developers, so they know how MacOS X is supposed to work. | 19:15 |
| Aiste | yeah, i just made a huuuge document with omniGraffle | 19:15 |
| th1a | I've made presentations with it. | 19:15 |
| srichter | sounds cool | 19:16 |
| srichter | doesn't the UML standard have something to say about testing plans? | 19:16 |
| srichter | we might be able to use that | 19:16 |
| srichter | I think it would be really nice, if we could have recording sessions for mechtests | 19:18 |
| th1a | I'm thinking about something that would allow a web developer to generate a functional test. | 19:18 |
| th1a | Just brainstorming. | 19:18 |
| srichter | I think if we could develop a Mozilla plugin for recording and managing mechtests than that would be awesome | 19:19 |
| srichter | I bet you that you could even do something with DCOP (KDE) to listen to stuff in Konqueror | 19:20 |
| srichter | on the other hand, an enhanced tcpwatch might do as well | 19:20 |
| srichter | so instead of recording a session and then converting it to a test, you do it as you go | 19:21 |
| th1a | I'm thinking of something that would allow you to create the test before you implement it. | 19:21 |
| th1a | Implement the code. | 19:22 |
| srichter | I know there are standards that deal with test plans | 19:22 |
| srichter | we could use that for automation | 19:22 |
| srichter | but I have never looked into this at all | 19:22 |
| srichter | th1a: maybe mechtests are already the format you are looking for and we just need a UI for them | 19:34 |
| th1a | Yeah, that's what I mean. A UI for creating mechtests. | 19:34 |
| srichter | I wonder whether someone could misappropriate JaWE :-) | 19:36 |
| erchache | downloading svn content :P | 19:51 |
| erchache | th1a: do you use your mac to develop schooltool software? | 19:51 |
| th1a | I haven't been doing much development, but yes. | 19:52 |
| th1a | I use BBEdit as an editor, but I'm not sure it is worth the cost. | 19:52 |
| erchache | ahhh | 19:53 |
| * mgedmin swears by gvim | 19:53 | |
| erchache | i use wrangler | 19:53 |
| erchache | ver simple and free | 19:53 |
| th1a | I've been using vi for six years or so and I haven't managed to learn anything beyond ':wq' 'i', 'x', and 'a' | 19:53 |
| th1a | Amazing what you can get done with those in a pinch, however. | 19:53 |
| th1a | Oh, and '/' | 19:54 |
| erchache | hahahahaha | 19:54 |
| th1a | 'dd' | 19:54 |
| erchache | im too | 19:54 |
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| erchache | well i left home....i finish on my job.... | 19:57 |
| erchache | a productive day! | 19:57 |
| erchache | yeah! | 19:57 |
| erchache | cool beer to celebrate it! | 19:57 |
| erchache | bye | 19:57 |
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| srichter | th1a: I thought about it a little bit, and a I think a Web GUI to generate mechtests should not be too hard | 20:07 |
| srichter | and if you write it in Zope you can even reuse the interfaces I wrote for testbrowser (mechtest) | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | what's testbrowser? | 20:12 |
| srichter | the new name for mechtest | 20:12 |
| srichter | it will live in zope.app.testing.testbrowser | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | I was dreaming the other day about a web GUI for debugging functional tests | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | you upload your .txt file | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | you see a web page with your restructured text rendered into html | 20:14 |
| mgedmin | and your embedded >>> http() snippets collapsed by default | 20:14 |
| mgedmin | plus a cursor on the left side | 20:14 |
| mgedmin | and you can skip or run those requests on live data.fs | 20:14 |
| srichter | I was thinking more visual | 20:15 |
| srichter | that your txt file is parsed into command objects | 20:15 |
| srichter | in testbrowser terms: | 20:15 |
| srichter | 1. Open a new URL | 20:15 |
| srichter | 2. Enter vlaues into Form X | 20:16 |
| srichter | 3. Submit using button "Apply" | 20:16 |
| srichter | etc. | 20:16 |
| srichter | th1a: is that what you were thinking too? | 20:16 |
| srichter | you can then annotate each action with some ReST | 20:16 |
| th1a | Back from lunch... | 20:43 |
| th1a | I think we're on the same page in general. | 20:44 |
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| th1a | srichter: I have a question. | 21:00 |
| th1a | I'm setting up a schema based add view for a content type I created, | 21:02 |
| th1a | but I didn't create a factory for the content. | 21:03 |
| th1a | Do I need to? | 21:03 |
| th1a | I think the answer is no, I can just enter the path to the class. | 21:04 |
| th1a | ...I'll try that. | 21:04 |
| th1a | Never mind. | 21:04 |
| srichter | ok | 21:04 |
| th1a | That sounds right then? | 21:04 |
| srichter | yeah, you don't need a factory | 21:05 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 21:05 |
| srichter | the addform will do the right thing | 21:05 |
| srichter | you specify the content type there anyways | 21:05 |
| srichter | I mean you specify the class | 21:05 |
| th1a | This little game seems to finally have given me the right hook to get deeper into Zope 3. | 21:06 |
| srichter | cool | 21:06 |
| th1a | After many false starts. | 21:06 |
| srichter | well, you need a project | 21:07 |
| srichter | that is always true | 21:07 |
| th1a | The problem has also been that I have no interest in writing calendaring code. | 21:07 |
| th1a | Or aptitude, for that matter. | 21:07 |
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| th1a | Aiste: Eek! Jennifer just pointed out that I set up our meeting on her birthday (Aug. 9). | 21:22 |
| th1a | Clearly I need to keep a more complete calendar. | 21:23 |
| Aiste | :) | 21:23 |
| Aiste | we can push it to 10-11 | 21:23 |
| alga_ | yep | 21:24 |
| th1a | Perfect. | 21:24 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 21:24 |
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| th1a | Our guidebook calls the mayor of Vilnius "wacky." | 21:58 |
| th1a | As of 2003. | 21:58 |
| srichter | hi hi | 21:59 |
| srichter | that's hilarious | 22:00 |
| bskahan | heh | 22:03 |
| th1a | It doesn't look like his office webcam is up anymore. | 22:03 |
| bskahan | zuokas? | 22:04 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | have you heard the story of 500 yellow bikes? | 22:06 |
| th1a | Jennifer just read it to me. | 22:06 |
| th1a | We tried one of those in Helsinki (well, the green Helsinki version). | 22:07 |
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| srichter | yeah, those guidebooks are pretty good | 22:11 |
| th1a | Lonely Planet. | 22:13 |
| srichter | yeah | 22:13 |
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| th1a | srichter: I've got a custom container, which holds a BTreeContainer, then another custom container. | 22:51 |
| th1a | Do I need to declare the permissions for the BTreeContainer in browser/configure.zcml? | 22:52 |
| srichter | to make security declarations simpler, only have custom BTreeContainer derived containers | 22:52 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:52 |
| th1a | I guess. | 22:54 |
| th1a | Doesn't seem that simple, actually. | 22:54 |
| srichter | why? | 22:54 |
| th1a | New class, new interface... | 22:54 |
| srichter | no, only new class | 22:54 |
| srichter | but what it gets you is unique security for this container | 22:55 |
| th1a | So just: | 22:55 |
| srichter | if you make security assertions on BTreeContainer, then all BTreeContainer instances will use those | 22:55 |
| th1a | Does this need to implement an interface? | 22:56 |
| th1a | IContainerSomething? | 22:56 |
| srichter | no | 22:56 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:57 |
| srichter | but it will be better if you have one | 22:57 |
| srichter | then you can register views on the interface instead the class | 22:57 |
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| th1a | srichter: So if I create a new interface (ICompass) to contain ICompassPoints, do I need to do ICompassPointContained as well, or is that overkill? | 23:21 |
| srichter | it's better for consistency | 23:22 |
| th1a | Not good for verbosity ;-) | 23:23 |
| srichter | right, it's due to this dumb recusive problem | 23:23 |
| srichter | you want to say ContainerX can contain ItemX but also ItemX can be contained by ContainerX | 23:23 |
| srichter | one you have to define first | 23:23 |
| th1a | I suppose the way I'm doing this maximizes the feeling of boilerplate. I created a bunch of objects that don't do anything at all yet other than sit inside each other in a fairly complicated way. | 23:49 |
| srichter | yeah | 23:49 |
| srichter | its better if you do one thing at a time | 23:50 |
| th1a | You can tell Zope 3 is written by programmers who'd rather write Python boilerplate than HTML boilerplate. | 23:50 |
| srichter | he he, how? | 23:51 |
| th1a | Just because it seems like a lot of work until I remember that I haven't written a single page template yet. | 23:52 |
| th1a | Which I get sick of. | 23:53 |
| th1a | Which I got so sick of I spent months trying to learn XUL and then wxPython. | 23:53 |
| th1a | Which convinced me that ZPT, XHTML & CSS aren't so bad after all. | 23:54 |
| srichter | ah, I see | 23:54 |
| srichter | XUL and XBL just sucks | 23:54 |
| th1a | It is bizarro world. | 23:54 |
| srichter | I think if you use the component architecture with wxPython or any other GUI framework, it could be cool | 23:54 |
| th1a | Until you try to figure out why your wxPython interface doesn't work on MacOS X, then you have to kill yourself. | 23:56 |
| srichter | well, I think those issues could be better overcome with the CA | 23:57 |
| srichter | so that woul dprobably be a reason to use Qt | 23:57 |
| srichter | I have heard good things about its compatibility to other OSs | 23:57 |
| srichter | I am just too lazy to learn them, because Web UIs are much faster to develop | 23:58 |
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