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| pcardune | hello jelkner | 01:33 |
|---|---|---|
| jelkner | hi paul | 01:34 |
| jelkner | thla: tom, are you here? | 01:34 |
| jelkner | pcardune: paul, how are you doing? | 01:36 |
| pcardune | good | 01:38 |
| jelkner | eldar just finished the demo | 01:38 |
| pcardune | and? | 01:38 |
| pcardune | what is the out look? or the look out? | 01:38 |
| jelkner | and, i want to figure out how to get the feedback to everyone | 01:38 |
| th1a | Hey. | 01:38 |
| jelkner | hi tom | 01:39 |
| jelkner | are both of you up for a quick discussion of cando? | 01:39 |
| th1a | I have a bit of time. | 01:39 |
| pcardune | so do i | 01:40 |
| jelkner | ok, i'm waiting for dave to finish talking with aziz and jeff coupe | 01:41 |
| jelkner | so let me update you with a few things | 01:41 |
| jelkner | first, carol county maryland and virginia beach, virginia both want to use cando next year | 01:42 |
| jelkner | dave will be making visits to those counties to show it to them | 01:42 |
| jelkner | my concern now is communication | 01:42 |
| pcardune | between which parties? | 01:43 |
| jelkner | dave took detailed notes on eldar's demo, but right now they exist only in a text file | 01:43 |
| jelkner | between customers and developers | 01:43 |
| jelkner | dave welsh and you, primarily | 01:43 |
| jelkner | and i want to do it here so it is part of the record | 01:43 |
| pcardune | ok | 01:44 |
| th1a | It is ok with me if you use SchoolTool channels to discuss this stuff. | 01:44 |
| th1a | That way you get more eyes on it. | 01:45 |
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| dwelsh | ol | 01:46 |
| pcardune | hello dwelsh | 01:46 |
| dwelsh | hey | 01:46 |
| dwelsh | howrthings? | 01:46 |
| pcardune | (just fixed the bug for setting scores to '--' | 01:47 |
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| th1a | Hi Dave. | 01:47 |
| dwelsh | hey | 01:47 |
| dwelsh | Hope you're rested from NECC | 01:47 |
| jelkner | dave, could you sumarize your impression of cando in it's present state? | 01:47 |
| jcoupe | Hi everyone.. | 01:47 |
| dwelsh | The gang here has just worked with CanDo2/SchoolTool | 01:48 |
| jelkner | what is working the way you want, what isn't? | 01:48 |
| dwelsh | The gang being Eldar, Aziz, Elkner | 01:48 |
| th1a | Can I see this demo? | 01:48 |
| jelkner | paul, can you explain that to tom? | 01:48 |
| pcardune | http://cando.ypal.net:8080/schooltool/ | 01:49 |
| pcardune | you will see a "candotoo" link on the left, and everything there is what we've added | 01:49 |
| dwelsh | Looks good so far, with just a few minor data entry bugs | 01:49 |
| dwelsh | Also talked a little about nomenclature | 01:49 |
| th1a | I think I need a login. | 01:50 |
| pcardune | oh right... for now, just login to http://cando.ypal.net:8080/manage with gandalf/123 | 01:50 |
| pcardune | (we will change that) | 01:50 |
| pcardune | (soon) | 01:51 |
| dwelsh | Regarding the major nomenclature issue... | 01:51 |
| dwelsh | Before we used Competency GROUPS and SKILLSETS | 01:51 |
| dwelsh | Which I like better than TEMPLATES and SKILLSETS | 01:52 |
| dwelsh | GROUP being the whole list for a course like TV Production | 01:52 |
| dwelsh | SKILLSETS being the subgrouping of competencies for that course | 01:52 |
| pcardune | (skillsets are still used in that sense) | 01:52 |
| dwelsh | Correct. SKILLSETS are fine. | 01:53 |
| dwelsh | TEMPLATE is too generic a word in my view | 01:53 |
| dwelsh | not intuitive | 01:53 |
| th1a | I agree that "Competencies Templates" is problematic. | 01:53 |
| pcardune | really? my impression was that it made more sense (at least to me) | 01:53 |
| jelkner | not at all intuitive to me | 01:54 |
| jelkner | when i saw it, i had know idea what it was | 01:54 |
| dwelsh | TEMPLATES was lost on all of us here except Eldar. | 01:54 |
| th1a | pcardune: You are indeed a programmer :-) | 01:54 |
| pcardune | well, i don't like groups either, especially since there is already something in schooltool called a Group, and we dont want to imply any kind of association between those two things | 01:54 |
| dwelsh | I like even better GROUP and SUBGROUP | 01:55 |
| dwelsh | No confusion there | 01:55 |
| pcardune | ok, what about the word Competency vs. Skill? | 01:55 |
| th1a | Couldn't you use something like "Course Requirements?" | 01:56 |
| th1a | I mean, if the significance of the grouping is its relationship to a course? | 01:56 |
| dwelsh | Problem is, there are many more course requirements than just skill/competency acquisitionl | 01:57 |
| pcardune | th1a, and eventually, we want our software to be able to handle all types of evaluation, beyond just competencies | 01:58 |
| dwelsh | Competencies are skills | 01:58 |
| dwelsh | we go with competencies in VA because it is the VA term | 01:58 |
| jelkner | and to add to that, i want to use personalize competency lists in my independent study course next year | 01:58 |
| jelkner | so competencies would be per student, not per course | 01:58 |
| jelkner | we both agree that group and set are intuitive words to teachers | 02:00 |
| th1a | This also might make more sense if it was more integrated into the rest of SchoolTool. | 02:00 |
| jelkner | how? | 02:00 |
| th1a | Well, does the "Advanced Programming" template represent a course? | 02:01 |
| pcardune | th1a, yes, it deffinitly would. as of now, there are a total of 6 lines changed in schooltool code to make this all work... | 02:01 |
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| pcardune | jelkner, in the last version, you created a course, and directly from the course page, you had a link to the competencygroup | 02:02 |
| pcardune | at the moment, we are not touching that user interface stuff in any respect, because it is very likely to change/improve | 02:02 |
| th1a | OK. That's reasonable. | 02:03 |
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| th1a | Keeping your piece relatively self-contained is prudent in the short term. | 02:03 |
| pcardune | so, all that user interface stuff, kind of has to be done backwards | 02:04 |
| dwelsh | Straw vote here... we like competency group, and subgroups | 02:05 |
| pcardune | (it would be easier to integrate, but at this point, that means forking... and that is *bad* idea) | 02:05 |
| pcardune | i'll give in | 02:05 |
| jelkner | yeah! | 02:05 |
| jelkner | we need to move on, so competency groups and subgroups it is... | 02:06 |
| pcardune | done | 02:06 |
| dwelsh | Biggest data entry issues... | 02:06 |
| dwelsh | After you enter data in a field | 02:06 |
| dwelsh | and then return to that field to check data | 02:06 |
| dwelsh | the moment you click on your data, it DISAPPEARS! | 02:06 |
| jelkner | this is a bug | 02:07 |
| jelkner | a schooltool bug? | 02:07 |
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| jelkner | it was the most anoying part of the demo experience | 02:07 |
| dwelsh | well, besides Elkner's spelling | 02:08 |
| jelkner | paul, tom, can you confirm where this comes from? | 02:08 |
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| th1a | It is certainly not a bug that exists elsewhere in SchoolTool. | 02:08 |
| pcardune | which fields were you entering data into | 02:08 |
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| pcardune | (cando or schooltool)? | 02:08 |
| pcardune | i presume it was us | 02:09 |
| dwelsh | when entering Competency Subgroup headers | 02:09 |
| pcardune | we were just finishing that off when you walked in the door | 02:09 |
| dwelsh | as well as individual competencies | 02:09 |
| pcardune | oooh... that is easy to change | 02:09 |
| th1a | It happens when you are editing the competencies templates. | 02:09 |
| th1a | Do you have some javascript going on there? | 02:09 |
| pcardune | yeah | 02:09 |
| pcardune | it is us | 02:09 |
| pcardune | we can change that no problem | 02:10 |
| eldar | oh ok | 02:10 |
| eldar | i thought it was schooltool | 02:10 |
| eldar | sorry about that | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | Next data entry issue... | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | when editing a competency | 02:10 |
| pcardune | do you still want it to have the preentered values explaining what is supposed to go in the box? | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | one cannot change the group with which it is associated | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | would be nice to be able to do that. | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | I mean the SUBGROUP/SKILLSET with which it is associated | 02:10 |
| th1a | pcardune: I don't think that's good UI practice. | 02:10 |
| pcardune | sure you can, | 02:10 |
| dwelsh | SUBGROUP!!!!! | 02:11 |
| dwelsh | Skillsets are so 20 minutes ago!!! | 02:11 |
| pcardune | you can use the up/down buttons | 02:11 |
| dwelsh | Will up/down change subgroups associations? | 02:11 |
| gpaci | There should be a way to send diagrams as small text strings. | 02:11 |
| pcardune | oh... sorry... this nomenclature is getting to me | 02:11 |
| th1a | I'm going to drift in and out here... I'll read the backlog. | 02:11 |
| dwelsh | GROUPS.... SUBGROUPS | 02:11 |
| jelkner | thla: one quick thing before you go | 02:12 |
| jelkner | would it be possible to arrange to meet with some of the folks from baltimore some thursday before summer ends? | 02:12 |
| jelkner | a mini schooltool/cando sprint here at the school? | 02:13 |
| pcardune | ok, so you have a SUBGROUP with title "Basic Programming Skills", and in that group you have 3 skills, "a", "b", and "c", then you have another SUBGROUP, title: "Advanced Programming skills", with some other skills in that | 02:13 |
| pcardune | do you want to move "a" to "Advanced Programming Skills"? | 02:13 |
| dwelsh | right | 02:13 |
| dwelsh | yes | 02:13 |
| pcardune | yeah... up and down buttons | 02:13 |
| dwelsh | checking | 02:14 |
| pcardune | when it gets to a border, it jumps to the next one | 02:14 |
| pcardune | or previous one for that matter | 02:14 |
| jelkner | dave is trying this out... | 02:15 |
| th1a | jelkner: You'll have to ask them. | 02:15 |
| jelkner | could you send me a list of who "them" is? | 02:15 |
| jelkner | so i can contact "them" | 02:15 |
| th1a | tvon@etria.com and bskahan@etria.com | 02:16 |
| th1a | Tom and Brian. | 02:16 |
| jelkner | ok, thanks! | 02:16 |
| dwelsh | yes, up/down does work. | 02:16 |
| th1a | Brian is in New York a lot of the time now, however. | 02:16 |
| dwelsh | Like the way up/down will reverse whole SUBGROUPS | 02:16 |
| pcardune | yep :) | 02:16 |
| dwelsh | good job | 02:16 |
| dwelsh | Flexible score system is a cool idea | 02:17 |
| dwelsh | But at minimum will need helptext | 02:17 |
| pcardune | like those fun little strings that pop up when you mouse over? | 02:17 |
| dwelsh | I didn't mind those at all | 02:18 |
| gpaci | pcardune: Then what will I do 5 minutes later? | 02:18 |
| dwelsh | Or mouseover help menus | 02:18 |
| dwelsh | but keep it simple | 02:18 |
| pcardune | gpaci, then you can have fun with parsing html | 02:18 |
| gpaci | pcardune: Are you and Eldar done with scoring? | 02:18 |
| gpaci | Now that the big bug is fixed? | 02:19 |
| pcardune | gpaci, and dont be so sure of yourself | 02:19 |
| gpaci | Yeah: it might only take four minutes. | 02:19 |
| pcardune | dwelsh, it was a suggestion | 02:19 |
| dwelsh | You guys figure out how to do it | 02:20 |
| dwelsh | Just provide some help/documentation | 02:20 |
| pcardune | gpaci, delusions of grandeur... no, we are not done with scoring, need to figure out how to compare to values in zpt without python | 02:20 |
| pcardune | dwelsh, can do (no pun intended) | 02:20 |
| gpaci | pcardune: Without python? | 02:20 |
| jelkner | pcardune: let's focus on the customer meeting now | 02:20 |
| jelkner | programmer meeting later | 02:21 |
| dwelsh | Next issue... | 02:21 |
| dwelsh | Field lengths of id# and flag | 02:21 |
| dwelsh | id# needs to be about 12 characters long | 02:21 |
| gpaci | pcardune: jelkner's pulling me off you; Eldar and I will proceed without you. | 02:21 |
| dwelsh | flag needs only maybe 2 characters | 02:21 |
| jelkner | i think flags are configurable, then drop down | 02:22 |
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| pcardune | i agree with jelkner... i was going to make them drop down, | 02:22 |
| dwelsh | fine, just make id# longer | 02:23 |
| dwelsh | would be nice to be able to see whole id# when entering data | 02:23 |
| jelkner | pcardune: question - we have all the va state competency lists in xml | 02:23 |
| jelkner | when do we talk about importing them? | 02:23 |
| pcardune | today | 02:24 |
| pcardune | gpaci will be working on that | 02:24 |
| jelkner | great ;-) | 02:24 |
| pcardune | schooltool has its very own xml handling stuff which is *very* useful | 02:24 |
| pcardune | we will use it for fucntional tests as well | 02:24 |
| gpaci | Point me to schooltool's XML code. | 02:24 |
| eldar | lol | 02:25 |
| dwelsh | Almost done, guys | 02:25 |
| dwelsh | The big issue where we left off | 02:25 |
| dwelsh | Data entry most likely will happen on a spreadsheet view | 02:26 |
| dwelsh | with students on the lefthand side, and competencies on the top | 02:26 |
| dwelsh | Paul will recall that most of our changes to CanDo1 were to this spreadsheet view | 02:27 |
| pcardune | yes | 02:27 |
| dwelsh | The spreadsheet is what makes data entry fast | 02:27 |
| pcardune | that is the mark for the next big hurdle | 02:28 |
| dwelsh | It's really not practical to go into student views | 02:28 |
| pcardune | right, we just needed that as a foundation | 02:28 |
| pcardune | (bottom up) | 02:28 |
| dwelsh | They care about that view, but teachers care more about seeing all their students at once | 02:28 |
| dwelsh | The issue you guys will want to puzzle though... | 02:29 |
| dwelsh | Should you try to build a large spreadsheet | 02:29 |
| dwelsh | with all competencies going across the top | 02:29 |
| pcardune | i think that makes the most sense | 02:29 |
| dwelsh | Or should you show all students on left and a SUBGROUP of competencies? | 02:30 |
| dwelsh | or should you show all students on left and just one competency for grading purposes | 02:30 |
| dwelsh | Or maybe all three options??? | 02:30 |
| dwelsh | I like the big spreadsheet, with the totals at the end. | 02:30 |
| pcardune | all three options | 02:30 |
| dwelsh | But this spreadsheet can get awfully long | 02:30 |
| pcardune | i want to use javascript the way they do with gmail | 02:30 |
| pcardune | that rocks | 02:31 |
| dwelsh | Especially if you are showing full id#s at the top of the columns | 02:31 |
| pcardune | so you will be able to click off and on those views | 02:31 |
| dwelsh | Yes, all three options would be best | 02:31 |
| dwelsh | And if we keep an eye on palm pilot entry in the future | 02:31 |
| pcardune | it would be nice to have a way to make the id's formatted to be verticle... im not sure that can be done with html | 02:31 |
| dwelsh | We will want to see one column of skills at a time | 02:31 |
| pcardune | (that would really impress the guys in richmond) | 02:32 |
| dwelsh | yes, it would be nice. | 02:32 |
| dwelsh | small columns is actually the reason I like truncating the id's | 02:32 |
| dwelsh | i.e. forget the first part "TDI8690." | 02:32 |
| dwelsh | just show the 001, 002, 003 part | 02:32 |
| pcardune | of course | 02:32 |
| dwelsh | then append back on the TDI8690 part on reports | 02:33 |
| dwelsh | OK, you understand the issues. | 02:33 |
| pcardune | actually, in terms of data entry, the id field in place, is meant only for the 001 part... the TDI39283 applies to all of them, so there will be another field for that "prefix" | 02:33 |
| dwelsh | Clearly, you guys need to allow creation of courses and sections | 02:33 |
| dwelsh | and marry the students and competency groups to those | 02:34 |
| pcardune | that is done already by schooltool | 02:34 |
| dwelsh | right | 02:35 |
| pcardune | although the marriage between competency groups, evaluation objects, score systems, and everything else, is a one way marriage... the students and courses don't know about the existance of the cando classes... changing that is not going to happen | 02:35 |
| pcardune | in the near future, unless we fork... *bad* ideas | 02:35 |
| pcardune | *idea | 02:35 |
| dwelsh | one last issue to think about for the future... | 02:35 |
| dwelsh | We need the ability to activate and deactivate compentencies for scoring purposes | 02:36 |
| pcardune | i think that problem has been solved... with the '--' score entry | 02:37 |
| eldar | good | 02:37 |
| pcardune | it is similar to just not entering in a grade in most commercial grading applications that i've looked over teacher's shoulders to see | 02:37 |
| dwelsh | Yes, that would work | 02:37 |
| dwelsh | OK, any other input you guys need from me at this point? | 02:38 |
| pcardune | i dont think so... we have plenty to work on | 02:38 |
| dwelsh | If we implement CanDo2 this year, we will need it by the last week of August | 02:38 |
| pcardune | understood | 02:39 |
| pcardune | actually, the week before the last week | 02:39 |
| dwelsh | Great going so far. Keep it up. | 02:39 |
| pcardune | because the last week of august, i have college orientation and all that stuff | 02:39 |
| pcardune | dwelsh, development should be faster from now on, | 02:39 |
| pcardune | we have overcome most of the zope/schooltool learning curve | 02:40 |
| pcardune | hopefully will finish off the last of the hill with the XML parsing stuff | 02:40 |
| jelkner | ok, great paul, thanks! | 02:44 |
| pcardune | my pleasure | 02:44 |
| jelkner | now i'm getting george a copy of one of the xml files | 02:44 |
| jelkner | so he can: | 02:44 |
| jelkner | 1. look at the file format and verify that it makes sense | 02:45 |
| jelkner | 2. figure out how to import the competencies into cando | 02:45 |
| pcardune | (and change the nomenclature if necessary with his emacs skillz) | 02:46 |
| jelkner | in fact, if we agree the file format makes sense, we need to: | 02:46 |
| jelkner | 1. document it (jeff coupe?) | 02:46 |
| jelkner | 2. convince folks in va cte to use it (dave welsh) | 02:46 |
| jelkner | ok, paul, talk to you later... | 02:51 |
| pcardune | ok | 02:52 |
| pcardune | bye | 02:52 |
| eldar | ok, good night | 02:53 |
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| th1a | pcardune: I think you should consider forking off SchoolTool 0.11, which will be out in 2.5 weeks. | 03:02 |
| pcardune | what kind of functionality are you planning on adding after that? | 03:03 |
| th1a | The release candidate should be out on Tuesday, so really you could fork off that. | 03:03 |
| th1a | Well, after that it will be the big rearrangements to turn this into more of a general platform. | 03:03 |
| th1a | Defining how you add extensions like CanDo, for example. | 03:03 |
| th1a | Among other things... creating the basic application objects for the SIS. | 03:04 |
| pcardune | SIS? | 03:04 |
| th1a | Student Information System. | 03:04 |
| th1a | The whole demographics/attendance/gradebook/reporting system. | 03:04 |
| pcardune | after you have defined how to add extensions, would it be a good idea for us to reintegrate? | 03:05 |
| th1a | Right. | 03:05 |
| pcardune | ok, that does sound like a good idea | 03:05 |
| th1a | I wouldn't want to track our changes to the framework through August and September. They may be big architectural maneuvers. | 03:06 |
| pcardune | yeah, i remember you talking about that earlier | 03:06 |
| th1a | We'll want your input on that soon as well. What would make it easier to do things like CanDo with SchoolTool. | 03:09 |
| pcardune | absolutely, I could come up with a whole list of stuff | 03:10 |
| th1a | :-) | 03:32 |
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| gpaci | Help: I'm trying to import a module, and keep getting "ImportError: No module named zope.i18n", even though it's clearly on my PYTHONPATH | 03:58 |
| gpaci | Never mind: I added "zope" to the entry by mistake. | 04:00 |
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| srichter | th1a: can I assume that the 'manager' group will always be available? | 15:11 |
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| srichter | alga: can I assume that the 'manager' group will always be available? | 15:28 |
| alga | hmmm | 15:34 |
| alga | currently we don't have it AFAIK | 15:34 |
| alga | but it is possible | 15:34 |
| alga | if you do assume, add that group to the app initialization and create an evolution script | 15:35 |
| srichter | ok | 15:37 |
| srichter | I really need this because I need to give someone the workflow work to do; I could have the user select the group that manages the workflow, but I think this would unnecessarily clutter the UI | 15:38 |
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| erchache | hi | 16:00 |
| srichter | hi | 16:01 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4312: | 16:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: ReST syntax fix. | 16:10 |
| pcardune | hi | 16:19 |
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| mgedmin | hi | 16:40 |
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| bskahan | hi marius | 16:50 |
| pcardune | ok, i've got a weird thing happening, i have a <select> tag in a form, with name="foo", in the request object, instead of "foo":someval, it gives me ('foo',):someval, what is up with that? | 16:59 |
| srichter | that makes no sense | 17:01 |
| srichter | are you really sure? because the request parsing code is as old as Zope and has not changed in years | 17:01 |
| pcardune | then i saw somewhere else: u"('foo',)":someval | 17:01 |
| srichter | soemthing really fishy is going on | 17:02 |
| srichter | can you paste your HTML? | 17:02 |
| pcardune | oh wait... | 17:03 |
| pcardune | hold on, i might have done something royally stupid | 17:03 |
| pcardune | nope, i didn't do something stupid | 17:04 |
| pcardune | i will paste the html | 17:04 |
| pcardune | be warned, it is kind of long and ugly | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <select size="1" tal:attributes="name skill/marker"> | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <option tal:condition="python:skill['score'] == '--'" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | value="--" select="true">--</option> | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <option tal:condition="python:skill['score'] != '--'" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | value="--">--</option> | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <tal:var repeat="scorePos view/getScoreNames"> | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <option tal:condition="python:str(repeat['scorePos'].index) == str(skill['score'])" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | selected="true" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | tal:attributes="value repeat/scorePos/index" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | tal:content="scorePos">some score description</option> | 17:04 |
| pcardune | <option tal:condition="python:str(repeat['scorePos'].index) != str(skill['score'])" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | tal:attributes="value repeat/scorePos/index" | 17:04 |
| pcardune | tal:content="scorePos">some score description</option> | 17:05 |
| pcardune | </tal:var> | 17:05 |
| pcardune | </select> | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | what is skill['marker']? | 17:05 |
| srichter | I bet you that skill/marker returns (u'foo'.) | 17:05 |
| pcardune | marker = 'skill.%s.%s' % (index, skill_index) | 17:06 |
| pcardune | although i just found a stray comman at the end of that line... | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | ta da! | 17:06 |
| srichter | just print the value in the HTML and see what you get | 17:06 |
| pcardune | wow... that is weird... does that mean... a= 1, returns a tuple? | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | yes | 17:07 |
| srichter | of course | 17:07 |
| pcardune | that is screwed up, that should be illegal syntax or something | 17:07 |
| srichter | no, because you want to be able to say: return x, y | 17:07 |
| pcardune | yeah... that makes sense | 17:07 |
| srichter | and not return (x, y) | 17:07 |
| pcardune | but what's the use of a tuple with one thing in it | 17:08 |
| pcardune | (ok ok, i can see the uses... but still) | 17:08 |
| srichter | moral: when you get tuple instead of a simple var, look for trailing commas | 17:09 |
| Aiste | duh | 17:09 |
| Aiste | :) | 17:09 |
| srichter | :-) | 17:10 |
| pcardune | well, that's a new one on my list | 17:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4313: | 17:28 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Very minor change in ttschema XML representation: use empty <period /> tags rather than open and close tags with nothing in between. | 17:28 |
| srichter | are groups principals in SchoolTool? | 17:31 |
| srichter | (like it is for zope.app.authentication) | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | no | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | err, alga says they are | 17:31 |
| srichter | that's nice :-) | 17:31 |
| srichter | bceause then one can give the manager principal the permissions for the level promotion workflow screens | 17:33 |
| alga | one security issue, so to speak, is the fact that we grant the initial manager user the zope.Manage permission | 17:33 |
| alga | so he can do more than could be granted via our ACL view | 17:33 |
| srichter | ok | 17:33 |
| alga | manage services, see errors in the error servivce, etc | 17:33 |
| srichter | right | 17:35 |
| erchache | th1a: are you here? | 17:51 |
| th1a | Busy. | 17:54 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:04 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4314: | 18:41 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed typo. | 18:41 |
| th1a | Ah, mgedmin. I started to enter a bug report yesterday and got interrupted. | 18:41 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4315: | 18:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed system error in the ttschemas index when the user was not a manager. Provided a regression ftest. | 18:42 |
| alga | th1a: I'd like to chat about emergency days | 18:42 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:43 |
| alga | I see your point that they are a term action | 18:47 |
| alga | but they need to modify timetable schemas in order to make sense | 18:47 |
| th1a | I'm just looking at this from a UI point of view. | 18:48 |
| alga | OK | 18:48 |
| th1a | Is there a reason they have to be contained with the timetables? | 18:49 |
| alga | not particularly... | 18:49 |
| th1a | OK. You're just thinking like a programmer ;-) | 18:49 |
| alga | it was my inertia after having completed special days :-) | 18:49 |
| alga | I assume you want it fixed before the release, right? | 18:50 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:50 |
| alga | timetable schemas need to be modified in order to make sense after the term changed. | 18:51 |
| alga | should I modify all timetable schemas? | 18:51 |
| th1a | Oh.. I see. | 18:52 |
| th1a | I wasn't thinking of it that way. | 18:52 |
| th1a | I guess I see why you did it the way you did it now. | 18:54 |
| alga | the problem with my approach is that only one schema gets modified | 18:54 |
| alga | and you cannot repeat the process with other schemsa | 18:54 |
| alga | because the replacement day is not a non-schoolday anymore | 18:55 |
| th1a | On the other hand, you can often have cases where only kindergarten is cancelled in an elementary school, for example. | 18:55 |
| th1a | Or just night classes. | 18:55 |
| th1a | Oh. | 18:55 |
| th1a | Hrm. This is complicated. | 18:56 |
| alga | perhaps looping over all existing schemas is a sane thing to do | 18:56 |
| alga | does not cover all cases, but is consistent | 18:57 |
| th1a | OK, so in the cases I cited above, you'd need to use a special day for the kindergarten or night school timetables. | 18:57 |
| th1a | If you're making the day a non-school day, then it should apply to all schemas. | 18:57 |
| alga | I'm not, in fact | 18:58 |
| alga | making it a non-schoolday would make rotating cycle timetables shift | 18:58 |
| th1a | Ah. | 18:58 |
| alga | I'm just cancelling all periods for a certain day in the schema | 18:58 |
| alga | and post that schoolwide calendar event, of course | 18:58 |
| th1a | OK. I misread what you said -- for the other timetables you couldn't currently add the same replacement day. | 18:59 |
| alga | adding a replacement day is different | 18:59 |
| alga | it has to be made a non-schoolday, but the schema knows it's a special case and handles it | 19:00 |
| alga | it needs to know what day id to apply | 19:00 |
| th1a | Regardless, it still seems most sane to cancel school for all timetables. | 19:00 |
| alga | sure | 19:00 |
| alga | so, loop over all ttschemas | 19:00 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:00 |
| alga | ok | 19:00 |
| th1a | If it doesn't fit all cases, someone will let us know sometime in 2007. | 19:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4316: | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed Content-Length headers from POST requests in cal.txt and app.txt functional tests. These are not required and it is a good idea to omit them generally, because people forget to update the size after copy&paste. Just remember to leave a backslash at the end of the last line so that the newline is not submitted as part of a field. | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4317: | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: The case of a rotating timetable cycle with slots defined on a weekly basis used to produce incorrect timetable schemas. This is now fixed. | 19:02 |
| alga | :-) | 19:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4318: | 19:06 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Use the transaction module instead of the obsolete get_transaction(). | 19:06 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: The funny thing is that get_transaction was not even imported, which led to us finding out that the evil ZODB installs get_transaction as a builtin! | 19:06 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4319: | 19:11 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Hopefully fixed pdfURL unit test which failed when reportlab was unavailable. | 19:11 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4320: | 19:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed an undeterministic order bug in the tests. | 19:25 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4321: | 19:31 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made printer.png an indexed-color PNG to make transparency work on IE. | 19:31 |
| *** th1a is now known as th1a|lunch | 19:33 | |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4322: | 19:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Ignore log files. | 19:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4323: | 20:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made emergency days be accessible through terms, and affect all timetable schemas. | 20:03 |
| alga | th1a|lunch: I changed the emergency days the way we discussed | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin | take a look at http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot/ | 20:09 |
| *** th1a|lunch is now known as th1a | 20:09 | |
| th1a | Cool! What is it? | 20:10 |
| th1a | :-) | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | it's buildbot | 20:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4324: | 20:11 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Whitespace cleanup | 20:11 |
| th1a | It builds and runs tests automatically after each checkin? | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | yes | 20:13 |
| th1a | Nice. | 20:13 |
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| th1a | Why is it an IRC bot? | 20:14 |
| mgedmin | so it can complain when somebody breaks tests | 20:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4325: | 20:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Bugfix: weekly timetables with different slots on different days and periods designated by time had incorrect period designations (issue 314). | 20:22 |
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| mgedmin | see ya on Monday | 20:31 |
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| Aiste | bye | 20:32 |
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| srichter | th1a: the question is: how ready are you to see a README.txt file with a fully working promotion workflow? :-) | 22:17 |
| th1a | I'm moderately ready. | 22:17 |
| srichter | :-) | 22:18 |
| srichter | it's coming your way | 22:18 |
| th1a | Cool. | 22:18 |
| srichter | ok, should be there | 22:20 |
| srichter | the XPDL fiel you can view with JaWE | 22:21 |
| srichter | th1a: did you get the files? | 22:37 |
| th1a | Yes. I'm just taking care of some personal business for a moment. | 22:38 |
| srichter | ok, sorry | 22:39 |
| th1a | No problem. | 22:39 |
| th1a | http://tuttlesvc.teacherhosting.com/blog/blosxom.cgi/personal/music/407.html | 22:52 |
| th1a | srichter: Are the events in the history timestamped? | 23:13 |
| srichter | yes | 23:13 |
| srichter | I had to use ... in the tests because the time changes all the time | 23:14 |
| th1a | And it notes who took the action? | 23:14 |
| srichter | not yet | 23:14 |
| srichter | but that should be no problem | 23:14 |
| th1a | That would be good. Otherwise, it looks good. | 23:15 |
| srichter | ok | 23:15 |
| th1a | I'm glad you came up with a simpler implementation. | 23:16 |
| srichter | me too :-) | 23:16 |
| srichter | I understand the WfMC stuff much better now too | 23:16 |
| srichter | it is very well thought of | 23:17 |
| srichter | th1a: what is the initial user for schooltool? | 23:31 |
| th1a | manager | 23:31 |
| srichter | passwd? | 23:31 |
| srichter | th1a: passwd? | 23:33 |
| th1a | sorry... schooltool | 23:34 |
| srichter | thanks | 23:34 |
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