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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4256: | 02:51 |
|---|---|---|
| povbot | /svn/commits: Base setup for site-wide calendar. | 02:51 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4257: | 02:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Base setup for site-wide calendar. | 02:52 |
| th1a | Is Zope3 svn wonky? | 02:53 |
| th1a | srichter: Is there something wrong with Zope3 svn? | 03:01 |
| srichter | no | 03:04 |
| srichter | not that I know of | 03:04 |
| srichter | Tim changed the ZODB versions, so you probably have to recompile | 03:04 |
| th1a | My connection keeps closing unexpectedly. | 03:04 |
| srichter | *shrug* | 03:05 |
| tvon | tis workin here | 03:05 |
| th1a | I meant something wrong with subversion, not the code. | 03:05 |
| tvon | er, no it's not | 03:05 |
| tvon | just got that on Zope3/src/ZODB | 03:05 |
| srichter | that would be a good mail to send to zope3-dev and see whether anyone else experiences this | 03:05 |
| srichter | oh, I see | 03:05 |
| th1a | I'm getting it at random points. | 03:05 |
| srichter | hold on, I check | 03:05 |
| srichter | mmh, works for me | 03:06 |
| tvon | I updated again and it worked | 03:10 |
| th1a | I'm trying to do a fresh checkout, and it is just too much I think. | 03:11 |
| th1a | I guess if I do a svn up from the incomplete checkout it gets everything. | 03:20 |
| tvon | yeah, thats working for me | 03:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4258: | 03:26 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Generation script for site-wide calendar | 03:26 |
| tvon | shit | 03:45 |
| tvon | er, crap | 03:45 |
| * tvon shrugs | 03:45 | |
| tvon | ah, nm | 03:49 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4259: | 03:58 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Generation for application calendar/timetable | 03:58 |
| bskahan | they're extending daylight savings time in the US ... | 04:00 |
| bskahan | going into effect this fall | 04:01 |
| * tvon cant wait to ditch externals | 04:10 | |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4260: | 04:51 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: app title in page title/footer. | 04:51 |
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| *** marcin has joined #schooltool | 09:35 | |
| marcin | hi all | 09:35 |
| marcin | anybody here? | 09:35 |
| th1a | I was just getting ready to go to bed... | 09:36 |
| th1a | What's up? | 09:36 |
| marcin | th1a, hi | 09:36 |
| marcin | th1a, I got two questions | 09:36 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 09:36 |
| marcin | th1a, 1. is there something like a sample data for schooltool? | 09:36 |
| th1a | Ah... there was, but there isn't currently. That'll be back soon. | 09:37 |
| th1a | We went through some major changes, and it is hard to keep all the little details together. | 09:38 |
| marcin | th1a, ok then my second question is ekkhhhm about money | 09:39 |
| th1a | Yes? | 09:39 |
| marcin | th1a, I've seen bounties on schooltool page (like this http://www.schooltool.org/bounties/timetabling/) | 09:39 |
| marcin | th1a, are there still available? | 09:39 |
| th1a | Ah, right. | 09:39 |
| th1a | Well... not bounties as such. | 09:40 |
| th1a | Are you a Python/Zope developer. | 09:40 |
| th1a | ? | 09:40 |
| marcin | well currently I'm Java developer but I want to switch | 09:41 |
| marcin | and I learn Python now | 09:41 |
| th1a | Right. We have two small teams of experienced Python developers, and we aren't actively looking for more. | 09:42 |
| marcin | unfrtunately my project for google summer of code was rejected so I'm looking for some other opportunities to hack some code | 09:42 |
| marcin | (and to get some bounty for this maybe ;) ) | 09:42 |
| th1a | If we were, the top priority would be Python/Zope3 development experience. | 09:42 |
| th1a | So... the short answer is no, we don't really have any active bounties. | 09:43 |
| marcin | well that's sad | 09:43 |
| th1a | :-( | 09:43 |
| marcin | (and a little suggestion - maybe some bounty for uptading your website and removing these old bounty informations ;) ?) | 09:44 |
| marcin | (just a joke) | 09:44 |
| th1a | Well, I've been planning on that. We're kind of stuck in an endless loop waiting for a server upgrade, at which point I'm going to cull out a lot of the current content. | 09:45 |
| tvon | on the upside, by the time we get a server plone 2.1 will be out | 09:46 |
| th1a | Also, the bounties were Mark's idea, and since he pays for this, I have to be careful about yanking his stuff. | 09:46 |
| th1a | tvon: It is looking that way. I think debconf and the LaunchPad launches pushed us back a couple more weeks. | 09:46 |
| th1a | LaunchPad is looking better though, at least. | 09:47 |
| tvon | I'm a bit excited to see that released | 09:47 |
| th1a | I want to move to bazaar. Sort of. | 09:47 |
| tvon | yeah, I have the same feelings | 09:48 |
| th1a | Did you watch the video of Mark at Debconf? | 09:48 |
| tvon | mhm, no, it's sitting on my desktop | 09:48 |
| th1a | It is a must-see. | 09:48 |
| tvon | how long is it? | 09:48 |
| th1a | Apparently, he's even richer than I thought. | 09:48 |
| tvon | could be a nice companion to the exercise bike | 09:48 |
| tvon | heh, oh? | 09:48 |
| th1a | An hour. | 09:48 |
| th1a | He talks quite frankly about his life and plans. | 09:49 |
| tvon | ah | 09:49 |
| th1a | The objective is to reassure the Debian geeks, so he kind of has to lay it all out. | 09:49 |
| th1a | So it is quite informative. | 09:49 |
| th1a | OK, I'm really going to bed now. | 09:50 |
| tvon | ttyl | 09:50 |
| * tvon thinks Mark should do all his speaking in a space suit | 09:51 | |
| marcin | tvon, so this guy is your sponsor? | 10:10 |
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| skaith | hello all | 10:12 |
| skaith | hello th1a | 10:12 |
| skaith | th1a : some time to discuss 1à minutes ? | 10:12 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4261: | 10:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: fixing left offset in IE | 10:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4262: | 11:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removing the footer-at-bottom CSS hack. This is currently required to avoid a bug in firefox 1.0.x that causes odd stacking to occur when mixing an absolute positioned body (as the hack requires), an absolute positioned element (as the calendar requires) and form fields under the element (our form fields). The issue appears to be fixed in Deer Park but that doesnt do us much good. | 11:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: FWIW, the footer never worked in KHTML anyways (at least not Konq). | 11:08 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4263: | 12:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added error checking to SlotEntryStep. | 12:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4264: | 12:44 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: getSessionData takes a view as an argument again. | 12:44 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4265: | 13:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Unwedged functional tests, added a branch to test named periods. | 13:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4266: | 13:34 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Implemented the step that asks if start/end times vary based on day of week or day in cycle. | 13:34 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4267: | 14:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Unbroke functional test. | 14:01 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4268: | 14:21 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Separated RotatingSlotEntryStep and WeeklySlotEntryStep. | 14:21 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4269: | 14:23 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Removed CycleStep.update which is not really useful any more now that we have WeeklySlotEntryStep. | 14:23 |
| jinty | hoi srichter, re zpkgtools for schooltool | 14:29 |
| * jinty 's battery dies | 14:31 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4270: | 14:34 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic fix. | 14:34 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4271: | 14:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Reverted revision 4269. It appears that CycleStep.update will come in handy for Albertas. | 14:36 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4272: | 14:50 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: "Put periods in order if all days same" step. | 14:50 |
| srichter | jinty: I am here | 14:51 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4273: | 14:55 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Renamed time_slots{,1,2} to time_slots{_simple,_rotating,_weekly}. Implemented requiredPeriods properly. | 14:56 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4274: | 15:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made the periods in order view remember the selection when redisplayed due to errors. | 15:10 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4275: | 15:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Merged time_slots_simple, time_slots_weekly and time_slots_rotating to time_slots, which is now a list of day descriptions(sequences of periods). | 15:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4276: | 16:00 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic fixes. | 16:00 |
| srichter | th1a: is elementary school in the US from 1-6 and middle school from 7-8? | 16:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4277: | 16:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: DRY - Don't Repeat Yourself. | 16:09 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4278: | 16:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another small DRY refactoring. | 16:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4279: | 16:22 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refer to steps by their names rather than numbers. (Besides, the 1st step has nothing to do with weekly/rotating cycles -- the 1st step is where you enter the title). | 16:22 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4280: | 16:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Split up createSchema, updated it to cope with new semantics (day_names is now always in session). | 16:32 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4281: | 16:37 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Reorder periods if days are different | 16:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4282: | 16:42 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed unit test failure. | 16:42 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4283: | 16:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Hooked up the last question! Hurray! | 16:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Now all we have to do is to make everything work. | 16:54 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4284: | 17:00 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Finished my incomplete refactoring in rev 4278. | 17:00 |
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| alga | bskahan: take a look at the title of http://localhost:7080/terms or whatever :-) | 17:07 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4285: | 17:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactoring: untangle FinalStep.dayTemplates a bit. | 17:08 |
| bskahan | alga: thanks | 17:13 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4286: | 17:18 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Weekday are now translated properly in CycleStep.update. | 17:18 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4287: | 17:20 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: A dict lookup is more Pythonic, besides it raises an exception rather than returning None when the cycle is something that it should not be. | 17:20 |
| bskahan | th1a: ping | 17:26 |
| th1a | Good morning. | 17:37 |
| bskahan | hey tom | 17:38 |
| th1a | Hi Brian. | 17:38 |
| bskahan | do you have a written story for overlaying student sections? tvon isn't around and I can't find a copy | 17:41 |
| th1a | Oh, perhaps that didn't get written. We exchanged some email. Let me see. | 17:41 |
| * bskahan is finally getting over jetlag | 17:42 | |
| bskahan | pydev plugin for eclipse looks like it improved alot in the last 6 months | 17:43 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4288: | 17:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed the error handling in the simple order selector. | 17:46 |
| th1a | bskahan: Forwarded the updated stories. | 17:47 |
| bskahan | th1a: thanks | 17:50 |
| th1a | It isn't anything complex. | 17:51 |
| bskahan | "In fact, the | 17:51 |
| bskahan | sections should probably always show up as options on the main menu view." | 17:51 |
| bskahan | what does that refer to? | 17:52 |
| bskahan | oh, the menu doesn't have "Sections" | 17:52 |
| bskahan | the reason I did that was because the "Courses" menu item also displays sections | 17:53 |
| bskahan | (grouped by Course) | 17:53 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4289: | 17:59 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed ftest to handle the last question. | 17:59 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4290: | 18:00 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Refactored FinalStep.createSchema helper methods to have unit tests and accepts arguments explicitly rather that digging in the session. | 18:00 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4291: | 18:10 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated FinalStep.modelFactory to handle a third case (rotating cycle with time slots based on day in cycle rather than day of week). | 18:10 |
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| skaith | hello | 18:23 |
| pcardune | eldar, i'm here | 18:23 |
| skaith | th1A online ? | 18:24 |
| skaith | no ok see you all | 18:24 |
| skaith | mgedmin ? | 18:24 |
| skaith | bye | 18:28 |
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| mgedmin | ? | 18:30 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4292: | 18:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Made FinalStep.createSchema pay attention to period order. Coincidentally this fixed the failing ftest. | 18:35 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4293: | 18:38 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Implemented the restriction in WeeklySlotEntryStep: if a rotating timetable cycle is selected and slots vary based on day of week, each day must have the same number of slots. | 18:38 |
| pcardune | will there be any addition to the relationship api to allow for one to many relationships? | 18:40 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4294: | 18:41 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic fix. | 18:41 |
| srichter | mgedmin: how can I run tests of a particular pacakge with the schooltool test runner. the --dir or -s option does not exist | 18:41 |
| srichter | :-( | 18:42 |
| pcardune | --search-in | 18:42 |
| pcardune | and then the path to the package | 18:42 |
| gintas | -s does exist | 18:42 |
| srichter | ok, it is not documented | 18:43 |
| srichter | search-in is | 18:43 |
| srichter | ok, got it | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | pcardune, I have no plans to add such an api | 18:44 |
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| srichter | you guys should port the coloring stuff to Zope 3; it is nice ;-) | 18:46 |
| th1a | Coloring? | 18:46 |
| srichter | of the test output | 18:47 |
| th1a | Ah. | 18:47 |
| pcardune | there's coloring? what option is that? | 18:47 |
| pcardune | mgedmin, very well then, i guess we will extend it ourselves then... | 18:48 |
| srichter | -c | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | I was thinking about that too | 18:51 |
| gintas | use -C on terminals with light background | 18:51 |
| srichter | it really makes the output more readable; it would be a great improvement | 18:52 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4295: | 18:58 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Added a file type hint for vim. | 18:58 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4296: | 19:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated FinalStep.createSchema to deal with different period orders on different days, at least with the weekly cycle. | 19:08 |
| th1a | mgedmin: Have you thought about how that will need to be represented in XML? | 19:09 |
| *** bska|mobile has joined #schooltool | 19:09 | |
| th1a | Those cycles? | 19:09 |
| mgedmin | what cycles? | 19:10 |
| th1a | Schedules with different sequences of periods within the cycle. | 19:11 |
| mgedmin | those are all representable with our current xml, since yesterday | 19:11 |
| th1a | You mean, you changed the XML yesterday. | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | alga did | 19:12 |
| th1a | OK. That's what I wanted to know. | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | th1a, I've a question for you | 19:13 |
| th1a | I should send some new examples to Andy@ReportLab then. | 19:13 |
| mgedmin | one of the three penultimate steps in the timetable workflow has a comment | 19:13 |
| mgedmin | "the layout of this form should be[sic] reflect the schema created on the slot/time form." | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | what if the user said that classes begin and end at the same time each day? | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | then the slot/time form was a single list of start/end times | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | there's no grid | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | can the sequence of periods each day be different in that case? | 19:15 |
| mgedmin | and if so, will it depend on the day in cycle or on the day of week? | 19:15 |
| th1a | Let me summon my diagram. | 19:15 |
| *** bskahan has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| * mgedmin nods | 19:15 | |
| th1a | That screen will either need the custom grid created on the slot/time form, or it will need to generate a simple one from the list of start/end times. | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | was that your answer? | 19:18 |
| th1a | I hope so. | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | ok, then | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | imagine this: | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | I choose "rotating cycle", enter 3 day names | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | say that classed begin and end at the same time each day | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | enter 4 slots | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | say that periods are named, and enter 6 period names | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | then I say the sequence of periods each day is different | 19:19 |
| th1a | OK... | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | now I have to specify the order in the grid | 19:20 |
| th1a | Yes... | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | my question: should the grid have 3 columns (for 3 days in the cycle), or 5 columns (for week days) | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | if I had chosen to say that classes begin on different times on different days | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | I would have given an extra choice between the two grids | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | even if I then would have entered the same times for each day | 19:21 |
| * mgedmin pauses | 19:22 | |
| mgedmin | perhaps I'm looking too deep | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | does the weekly grid even make sense here? | 19:22 |
| th1a | I think the key here is that you have to say whether or not the schedule varies b the day of the week or day in the cycle. | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | I think it doesn't | 19:22 |
| th1a | That's in the diagram. | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | yes, but that step is skipped if I say classes begin at the same time each day | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | and, actually, if I say that | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | and then if I say that period order varies by the day of the week | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | then I do not have a rotating cycle at all | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | both times and period names depend only on the day of week | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | and the day name doesn't indicate anything | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | so maybe I can just assume that in this specific case (rotating cycle, same slots, different period order) the grid will have days in cycle, and not days of week | 19:24 |
| th1a | Right. | 19:25 |
| th1a | As my friend Chris Lehmann wrote yesterday: Scheduling is pedagogy. In fact, it is one of the most powerful pedagogical tools we have at our disposal. How we structure our school day... what choices we make in the ways in which our students move through their day... affects everything else we do. | 19:25 |
| th1a | http://www.beaconschool.org/~clehmann/MT/archives/003248.php | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | ok | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | that's solved then | 19:26 |
| th1a | ;-) Good. | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | uh oh | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | I think I see another problem | 19:26 |
| th1a | :-( | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | remember that weird example? 4 days in cycle, periods go A,B,C,D in the first day, B,C,D,E in the second one, etc. | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | but slots depend on the time of day | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | I do not think you can represent this example with your diagram | 19:27 |
| mgedmin | since the slot grid will be based on weekdays | 19:27 |
| mgedmin | but period order should depend on days in cycle | 19:27 |
| * mgedmin thinks of a possible solution | 19:28 | |
| mgedmin | if we changed the last question to | 19:28 |
| th1a | There is a note that says "for a rotating cycle that varies by day of the week, each day must have the same number of slots." | 19:28 |
| th1a | I think that covers the problem. | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | that covers a different problem | 19:29 |
| th1a | If you can enforce that restriction. | 19:29 |
| th1a | Which form is the problem here? "Put the periods in order for each day:"? | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | yes | 19:30 |
| th1a | That form doesn't have to indicate the start and end times of the slot. | 19:30 |
| th1a | So if that varies by day of the week, it doesn't matter. | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | the problem is when I want the period time to depend on the day of week, but the period order to depend on the day in the cycle | 19:30 |
| srichter | mmh, schooltool's test runner cannot count ;-) | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | srichter, can't it? | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | the zope 3 one doesn't | 19:31 |
| srichter | Jim fixed the doctest counting so that every code snippet in a doctest is a test | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | ok | 19:31 |
| srichter | (its more rewarding ;-) | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | I fixed that in a different way | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | ;) | 19:31 |
| srichter | how so? | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | one doctest is 1 test | 19:32 |
| mgedmin | th1a, do you understand what I'm driving at? | 19:32 |
| srichter | mmh, ok | 19:32 |
| th1a | I think so, but I don't think it is a problem. | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | if you say so | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | it's just that this schedule was one of the examples that we based our initial design on | 19:34 |
| th1a | Oh, we can do that schedule. | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | if it's ok when it's not representable, then that's fine | 19:34 |
| * mgedmin pauses | 19:34 | |
| mgedmin | how? | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | can you give me a walkthrough? | 19:35 |
| th1a | Are we worrying about the forms or the underlying data model? | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | the forms | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | the model can represent that example | 19:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | do you remember the example? | 19:36 |
| mgedmin | all lessons shortened to 30 minutes on Wednesdays because of baseball | 19:36 |
| mgedmin | or something like that | 19:36 |
| th1a | That's the example from our school, so I know it well. | 19:36 |
| mgedmin | ok | 19:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4297: | 19:36 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cosmetic fixes. | 19:36 |
| th1a | I'm saying the "Put the periods in order for each day" form | 19:36 |
| th1a | only has to set the sequence each day. | 19:36 |
| th1a | In the cycle. | 19:37 |
| th1a | It doesn't need to know what the start and end times in each day of the week are. | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | ok | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | good | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | uh oh | 19:37 |
| th1a | Now do we have a problem with the data model? | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | in a minute | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | let's establish that I should disregard the comment about the layout matching the slot/time form layout | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | and always have a grid of days in the cycle | 19:38 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | I think there might be a problem with the data model... | 19:40 |
| mgedmin | the data model doesn't know about slots | 19:41 |
| mgedmin | it knows about period names and times | 19:41 |
| mgedmin | I'm confused | 19:42 |
| th1a | I had a feeling it was going to come to this. | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | I'll chew on it and come back here later | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | perhaps I remember the example incorrectly, because I'm sure it used to be representable | 19:42 |
| th1a | Yes, I'm confused about that too, because I know we at least thought we could do it, but now I can't see how it is possible. | 19:43 |
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| erchache | th1a: netboot runs on ubuntu? | 19:43 |
| th1a | netboot? I have no idea. | 19:44 |
| erchache | im triying to install the other server via netboot because doesnt have floppy/cdrom bay | 19:44 |
| erchache | i install dhcp3 an tftpd on my old laptop | 19:44 |
| erchache | and runs | 19:44 |
| erchache | but when are on mirror select to download packages doesnt run | 19:45 |
| bska|mobile | erchache: its possible to install ubuntu that way, that's how I did it | 19:45 |
| bska|mobile | I used the debian documentation to do it, iirc | 19:45 |
| erchache | yeah | 19:45 |
| erchache | i do too | 19:45 |
| erchache | but when i select mirror fails | 19:46 |
| erchache | ask for proxy or similar | 19:46 |
| bska|mobile | probably ask in #ubuntu | 19:46 |
| erchache | i think is a bug | 19:46 |
| erchache | im doing now | 19:46 |
| erchache | is a opteron and im using amd-64 | 19:47 |
| erchache | but at first kernel load good | 19:47 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4298: | 19:47 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another test for different period order. | 19:47 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4299: | 20:06 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed the number of slots on the periods order (complex) form. | 20:06 |
| alga | alga to office, alga to office | 20:06 |
| alga | anything else to do? | 20:06 |
| th1a | You might need to re-write the tiimetabling data model. | 20:07 |
| alga | :) | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | alga, read the backlog | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | alga, do you now enforce unique day and period names? | 20:13 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4300: | 20:15 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Updated FinalStep.createSchema to handle different time slots. | 20:15 |
| mgedmin | the answer is "no" | 20:15 |
| pcardune | anyone, with functional tests, if the server returns that fun little page that says "A system error has occured" how can i see the error without running zope and looking through the web interface | 20:15 |
| mgedmin | >>> print http("""...""", handle_errors=False) | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | I don't know why that isn't the default | 20:16 |
| pcardune | oh, very very good | 20:16 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4301: | 20:17 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Fixed ftest. | 20:17 |
| th1a | We generally need to get SchoolTool to spew its errors more visibly. | 20:17 |
| eldar | there was Falsh | 20:18 |
| eldar | oops, wrong window | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | th1a, agreed | 20:19 |
| pcardune | if arguments are passed through the url, like foo.html?bar=w00t... how do you access bar from the browser view class? | 20:21 |
| eldar | shouldn't they be in request? | 20:23 |
| alga | th1a: presentation of errors is just a view in the skin. easy | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | eldar, they are | 20:26 |
| pcardune | mgedmin, as in like self.request['bar']? | 20:26 |
| th1a | I think everyone would be very happy if the traceback showed up on the web interface when you have an error. It isn't perfect security practice, but I'll take easier debugging right now. | 20:26 |
| pcardune | th1a, amen to that! | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | I was very happy with the custom error view in schooltool 0.9 | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | or 0.8 | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | the one that was twisted based | 20:27 |
| alga | mgedmin: yep. periods and slots are tied in our model | 20:28 |
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| mgedmin | alga, I finished createSchema | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | (I hope) | 20:29 |
| alga | cool | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | what else is left? | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | - enforce unique day/period names | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | - functionally test at least 4 paths through the graph | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | - play with the view manually and try to break it | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | ? | 20:30 |
| alga | yep, pretty much | 20:31 |
| alga | maybe: | 20:31 |
| alga | - check slots for sanity | 20:31 |
| alga | 12:50-1:35 is an error :-) | 20:31 |
| eldar | umm does anyone know where the variable will be stored after being passing by url | 20:32 |
| eldar | like ?eval=test | 20:32 |
| eldar | where do i get the eval? | 20:32 |
| alga | view/request/eval | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | the request | 20:32 |
| alga | self.request.form[['eval'] | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | self.request['eval'] also works | 20:33 |
| eldar | no | 20:33 |
| eldar | request['eval'] gives key error | 20:33 |
| pcardune | ok, so in a functional test, how do you pass stuff like that? "POST /blah.html?bar=foo | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | of course not | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | GET /blah.html?bar=foo | 20:33 |
| pcardune | oh... i can't believe i didn't see that | 20:33 |
| pcardune | that really is embarrassing | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | if you use POST, you have to specify form values in the request body | 20:34 |
| alga | eldar: see posts on our ftests | 20:34 |
| pcardune | (that is what i get for copy/past) | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | waitasec... | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | what happens if I have <form action="somehtml?bar=1" method="POST">? | 20:34 |
| pcardune | that would create a problem presumably | 20:34 |
| alga | can you do that? | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | I'd expect to see both bar and other form values... | 20:34 |
| tvon | TestRequest ? | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | although that's bad style | 20:35 |
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| pcardune | off-topic: is schooltool compatible with lynx? | 20:39 |
| th1a | mgedmin: How much of a problem do we have with the data model? | 20:40 |
| th1a | pcardune: The intent is that SchoolTool is compatible with Lynx. I haven't looked at our calendar layout under Lynx, however. | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | that depends on the requirements | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | the data model cannot vary period times and order independently | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | they are either both tied to day of week, or to the day in cycle | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | so the yellow comment in the pdf was correct | 20:43 |
| th1a | So we couldn't model the example we were discussing all along. | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | no | 20:48 |
| th1a | That point has caused me much confusion over the past year. | 20:49 |
| mgedmin | me too | 20:54 |
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| th1a | Actually, maybe I've confused myself a bit... | 20:55 |
| th1a | So the only case we can't do is a rotating cycle that doesn't match the days of thew week going over a weekly pattern of changing start/end times. | 20:57 |
| th1a | And even if we did that, it would be really hard to display it as a table, for example. | 20:57 |
| th1a | The completed timetable. You'd need two tables. | 20:58 |
| th1a | Maybe I've forgotten and we used a weekly rotation. | 20:59 |
| th1a | I think the case we can't do is extremely uncommon, since it is so difficult to even describe as a table. | 21:02 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4302: | 21:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Post events to schoolwide calendar when an emergency day is replaced. | 21:03 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4303: | 21:08 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another walkthrough in the ftest: different period order in different days. | 21:08 |
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| th1a | I'm going over to school to see if my memory is deceiving me. | 21:20 |
| *** th1a is now known as th1a|school | 21:20 | |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4304: | 21:24 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Make sure period and day names are unique. | 21:24 |
| pcardune | how do we get testing to stop on the first error? | 21:30 |
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| mgedmin | try passing -1 to the test runner | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | then, when it doesn't work, find the place where you create your DocTestSuite | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | and make sure its optionflags argument includes doctest.REPORT_ONLY_FIRST_FAILURE | 21:33 |
| pcardune | ok | 21:33 |
| pcardune | thanks | 21:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4305: | 21:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another walkthrough: different time slots. | 21:33 |
| pcardune | what if that doesn't work? -l isn't a recognized command | 21:35 |
| pcardune | oh wait... it's -1 | 21:36 |
| pcardune | nvm | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | hehe | 21:37 |
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| th1a | Nope, our school uses the schedule we can't model :-( | 21:42 |
| th1a | I'm going to poke around the code and see if I can figure out some options. | 21:43 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4306: | 21:58 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Illustrate the tests, otherwise it's impossible to keep them straight. | 21:59 |
| srichter | th1a: Steve just suggested having a Zope 3 bug day. I guess since ST benefits from the release, would it be possible that the ST team could participate in a bug day? | 22:04 |
| th1a | Well, I think your question is will we pay them to participate in a Zope 3 bug day. | 22:05 |
| srichter | yes ;-) | 22:05 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4307: | 22:13 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another walkthrough. | 22:13 |
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| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4308: | 22:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Sixth and final walkthrough. | 22:33 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Now all the nodes and all the edges in the workflow graph have been traversed at least once in functional tests. | 22:33 |
| mgedmin | woohoo | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | th1a, it appears that we're done | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | it's a first | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | I don't remember any other proposals that we managed to finish before the deadline | 22:37 |
| * mgedmin pauses | 22:37 | |
| mgedmin | otoh there may be bugs... | 22:38 |
| th1a | Well, we're done aside from the fact that we realized that one use case we thought was covered hasn't worked for a year and a half and isn't an easy fix, right? | 22:38 |
| mgedmin | yes, there is that too | 22:38 |
| th1a | ;-) | 22:38 |
| th1a | But I should have nailed down that problem a long time ago, too. | 22:39 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4309: | 22:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Cleaned up outdated TODOs and XXXes. | 22:46 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4310: | 22:49 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Another obsolete TODO (implemented elsewhere) | 22:49 |
| srichter | th1a: btw, here is the final workflow I came up with: | 22:54 |
| srichter | +----------+ +----------+ | 22:54 |
| srichter | +------------> | Pass | --> | Graduate | --> E | 22:54 |
| srichter | | +----------+ +----------+ | 22:54 |
| srichter | V | 22:54 |
| srichter | +--------+ +----------+ +----------+ | 22:54 |
| srichter | S --> | Enroll | --> | Complete | <----> | Fail | | 22:54 |
| srichter | +--------+ +----------+ +----------+ | 22:55 |
| srichter | | | 22:55 |
| srichter | | +----------+ | 22:55 |
| srichter | +------------> | Withdraw | --> E | 22:55 |
| srichter | +----------+ | 22:55 |
| srichter | (switch temporarly to monospace font) | 22:55 |
| * mgedmin whispers, "why temporarily?" | 22:55 | |
| th1a | That's what I was just thinking... | 22:55 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: * mg committed revision 4311: | 22:55 |
| povbot | /svn/commits: Renamed the old "wizard" view name to complexadd.html. Updated links and surrounding text. | 22:55 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I assume that most people do not use monospace font all the time; I don't! :-) | 22:56 |
| srichter | btw, you can think of activities like Zope 3 events | 22:57 |
| th1a | If you don't use monospace, you might as well be using Windows! | 22:57 |
| th1a | Anyhow... so "Complete" is sort of a neutral state. | 22:57 |
| srichter | you then register workitems (like event listeners) that need to be completed before going to the next event | 22:57 |
| srichter | "Complete" is the state that needs manual interaction | 22:58 |
| th1a | Each block is called an "activity?" | 22:58 |
| srichter | yes | 22:58 |
| srichter | so "complate" is a verb in the sense of "completing" | 22:58 |
| th1a | Do the transitions have a special name in this scheme? | 22:58 |
| srichter | it is the activity of the student completing the level | 22:59 |
| srichter | you can give transitions an id, but it is not that useful | 22:59 |
| srichter | transitions only have conditions | 22:59 |
| srichter | all the work is really being done in an activity | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | th1a, could you look at the new timetable wizard? | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | I'm not entirely sure the case with a rotating cycle that has slots defined by weekdays works as expected | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | I'll try to look at it again tomorrow, when my brain works again | 23:02 |
| th1a | I think something like "pending" is better than "complete" | 23:02 |
| th1a | mgedmin: I'll take a look. | 23:02 |
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| srichter | th1a: but pending is a state not an activity | 23:04 |
| th1a | Oh... ok. I have yet to make the conceptual shift here... | 23:05 |
| srichter | MAybe I should call it "Completing" or "Executing" or something like that | 23:05 |
| th1a | I'm thinking this works for a manual process, but you'd need another state to start using it dynamically. | 23:06 |
| srichter | no, you would simply make "Complete" a sub-workflow | 23:07 |
| srichter | that contains the complexity that goes into it | 23:07 |
| srichter | wfmc allows for this | 23:07 |
| srichter | (our implementation might not, but it should be fairly straightforward to add) | 23:08 |
| th1a | My brain wants a state machine. | 23:08 |
| srichter | yep :-) | 23:08 |
| srichter | once you get it, it very obvious ;-) | 23:08 |
| th1a | So I shouldn't be trying to picture "where" the student is between when they pass one grade and complete the next one? | 23:08 |
| th1a | That's just not relevant? | 23:09 |
| srichter | that's not relevant | 23:09 |
| srichter | when the manager says: Student X passed, the workflow will progress to the "Pass" activity | 23:09 |
| srichter | the "Pass activity has several | 23:10 |
| srichter | the "Pass" activity has several automatic work items: | 23:10 |
| th1a | One other issue is that after you withdraw, you may re-enter the system, so it isn't necessarily an end state. | 23:10 |
| srichter | 1. Make an entry in the history | 23:10 |
| srichter | 2. Set the current level to the next one | 23:10 |
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| srichter | 3. If no next level is available forward to the graduate activity | 23:10 |
| srichter | 4. set the student status "Enrolled" (if necesary) | 23:11 |
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| srichter | if you do not want a student to be forwarded to the next level automatically: | 23:11 |
| srichter | 5. Wait for user input okaying progress to next level | 23:11 |
| srichter | 1-5 are work items that are completed during the pass activity | 23:12 |
| srichter | note that I can attach any amount of workitems to an activity | 23:13 |
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| th1a | That seems fine, with the possible exception of my last comment. | 23:15 |
| srichter | well, noone said you cannot enroll again | 23:16 |
| srichter | but withdraw usually means you are out of the scool | 23:16 |
| srichter | ah, I just noticed: | 23:18 |
| th1a | I guess the way it works now is fine for the moment. | 23:18 |
| srichter | the "Enroll" activity will also require a manual input. | 23:19 |
| srichter | it will let you set the initial level you are at | 23:19 |
| th1a | Once we have a stronger sense of what "enrolling" means in the system we might change it a bit. | 23:19 |
| srichter | Again, then "Enroll" just becomes a sub-process, which WfMC supports nicely | 23:19 |
| th1a | Right. I'm getting that. | 23:21 |
| srichter | I think this is the true strength of WfMC | 23:22 |
| srichter | It allows you to evolve a process without necessarily conflicting with what you have | 23:22 |
| th1a | I'm glad we're trying this route. | 23:23 |
| th1a | I think it is going to be really powerful. | 23:23 |
| srichter | I think it will be very cool | 23:23 |
| srichter | I'll send you the README.txt I am developing right now later this week, so you can see how far I am | 23:24 |
| th1a | OK. | 23:24 |
| srichter | oh, I also forgot to tell you: the level container has a validate() method that verifies the correct setup of level graphs | 23:24 |
| mgedmin | see ya | 23:25 |
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