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| bskahan_ | http://moodle.org/ | 00:15 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | What about it? | 00:16 |
| th1a | Are you new to Moodle? | 00:16 |
| th1a | I've never actually done anything with it, but it is getting pretty huge. | 00:16 |
| bskahan_ | never seen it before | 00:17 |
| th1a | Yeah, it is the open source alternative to BlackBoard, etc. | 00:17 |
| th1a | PHP, unfortunately. | 00:17 |
| bskahan_ | interesting | 00:18 |
| th1a | I expect it to continue growing pretty quickly. | 00:18 |
| th1a | We'll need to address interoperating with them at some point. | 00:19 |
| * bskahan_ downloads | 00:19 | |
| tvon | anyone looked at Sakai? | 00:22 |
| th1a | I can't say that I have. | 00:23 |
| tvon | http://www.sakaiproject.org/ | 00:23 |
| th1a | I mean, I've looked at the website. I haven't actually tried out the application. | 00:24 |
| tvon | ah | 00:25 |
| tvon | was about to give it a whirl | 00:25 |
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| tvon | Is there some way to actually see tracebacks with the standalone servers that I'm missing? | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | tvon, go to /++etc++site, find the error service, check [x] copy tracebacks to console | 13:02 |
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| tvon | jesus | 13:03 |
| tvon | I didn't know that was in the standalone servers, thanks | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if we can devise a way to turn that on by default | 13:11 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if it should be on by default -- it causes tracebacks for innocent errors such as NotFound too | 13:12 |
| tvon | hrm | 13:12 |
| tvon | it should be possible via the config file | 13:12 |
| tvon | ideally | 13:13 |
| mgedmin | doable | 13:15 |
| mgedmin | I think | 13:15 |
| tvon | I'm not sure how you would define the difference between that and error-log-file though | 13:16 |
| tvon | I don't understand the difference myself | 13:16 |
| tvon | I assumed it was something along the lines of 'zope errors' vs 'app errors' | 13:17 |
| tvon | RFC: For person csv importing, I'm going with "username, title, optional password".. make sense? | 13:21 |
| bskahan_ | tvon: that's "username, Real Name, optionalpasswrd"? | 13:23 |
| tvon | bskahan_: yeah | 13:23 |
| bskahan_ | sounds right | 13:23 |
| tvon | cool | 13:24 |
| bskahan_ | "username, Real Name, optionalpasswrd, Base54 Encoded picture" seems cumbersome ;) | 13:24 |
| tvon | hah | 13:24 |
| bskahan_ | s/54/64/ | 13:24 |
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| tvon | so since we can't mutate a username if there is a duplicate, should we just rollback the whole transaction if there are duplicates in the csv? | 13:57 |
| bskahan_ | tvon: drop the duplicates | 14:00 |
| bskahan_ | and report them | 14:00 |
| tvon | I think it might be better to not add anything if there are duplicates | 14:31 |
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| tvon | It is probably easier for the user to edit their original CSV than to cut/paste whatever duplicates there are and edit them | 14:31 |
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| bskahan_ | anyone know how to clear the CSS cache in safari? | 15:05 |
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| SteveA | th1a: hello | 15:09 |
| SteveA | i have spoken to james troup, canonical's sysadmin. there's a machine for schooltool to use. use is shared with some other stuff, but that shouldn't be a problem. he'll come here and arrange things later today. | 15:10 |
| bskahan_ | SteveA: thanks! | 15:13 |
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| bskahan_ | tvon: 223 is 'fixed' want to take a look at it before I mark it resolved? | 15:14 |
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| tvon | sure | 15:21 |
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| bskahan_ | http://www.z3lab.org/sections/front-page/announcements/zope3-ecm-project | 15:57 |
| tvon | interesting | 15:59 |
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| srichter | yeah z3lab is the falme discussion of the month right now :-) | 16:41 |
| alga | bskahan: ZMI icon and favicon.ico for SchoolTool are still the litte bell | 16:41 |
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| bskahan | alga: thanks | 16:46 |
| bskahan | tvon: ZMI icon and favicon.ico for SchoolTool are still the litte bell | 16:47 |
| bskahan | ;) | 16:47 |
| tvon | nice | 16:47 |
| bskahan | i actually tried to simplify and shrink the zebra(?) at some point last week | 16:47 |
| bskahan | but I didn't have much luck | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | http://www.mechanicalcat.net/tech/roundup/svn-roundup | 16:53 |
| bskahan | mgedmin: that's pretty cool | 16:54 |
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| tvon | that is pretty spiffy looking | 16:59 |
| bskahan | tvon & th1a: should csv import of persons even allow inserting passwords? | 17:00 |
| tvon | I think so. if you are migrating from some other system for example | 17:01 |
| bskahan | plain text passwords in a CSV file just leaves a bad taste in my mouth | 17:01 |
| * bskahan shrugs | 17:01 | |
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| tvon | I'm not wild about the concept either, but I think it's just a bad taste and not a real issue | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | so, timetable exceptions should be diked out, as far as I understand? | 17:09 |
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| th1a | Diked out? | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | th1a, http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/D/dike.html | 17:19 |
| th1a | Not to be confused with "dyke." | 17:19 |
| th1a | But yes, timetable exceptions are diked out. | 17:20 |
| tvon | its a term that is better suited for text communications than open conversation | 17:24 |
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| th1a | bskahan: What was causing the form layout issue in Safari? | 17:25 |
| bskahan | th1a: float:left;clear:left | 17:25 |
| tvon | Safari was causing it :) | 17:25 |
| bskahan | having pretty forms with | 17:25 |
| bskahan | label: [ ] | 17:26 |
| bskahan | didn't work out | 17:26 |
| bskahan | so now its the standard | 17:26 |
| bskahan | label | 17:26 |
| bskahan | hints | 17:26 |
| bskahan | [ ] | 17:26 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | ignas showed me some fun mozilla behaviour with float:left; clear:left yesterday | 17:26 |
| bskahan | mgedmin: big long empty spaces? | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | label jumping down 1/2 the screen down and overlaying other text already there | 17:27 |
| bskahan | either I don't understand what clear:left is supposed to do or clear:* is questionably implemented | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | is there clear:*? | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | I only know about clear left/right/both | 17:28 |
| bskahan | meant clear:[left right both] | 17:28 |
| th1a | I discovered last night that the state of Indiana is planning a 1-to-1 computing initiative in their schools statewide using Linux desktops. | 17:32 |
| bskahan | i've run into that in seceral places | 17:32 |
| bskahan | th1a: have a link? | 17:32 |
| bskahan | that's pretty exciting | 17:32 |
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| bskahan | the "i've run into that in several places" -> clear:left/both bugs | 17:33 |
| th1a | bskahan: There's no link. It is all very stealthy. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Don't bother Googling for it. | 17:33 |
| bskahan | interesting | 17:33 |
| th1a | I'll forward an email about it. | 17:34 |
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| bska|mobile | th1a: now I see the 1:1 linux thing on k12osn | 17:55 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:55 |
| th1a | It doesn't sound like they're thinking thin clients, which is bizarre. | 17:58 |
| bska|mobile | yeah | 17:59 |
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| jinty | yay, only one issue left for schoolbell 1.1! | 18:07 |
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| bska|mobile | http://issues.schooltool.org/issue227 | 18:09 |
| bska|mobile | jinty ran off before he could explain that | 18:09 |
| bska|mobile | I'll apply those patches | 18:10 |
| bska|mobile | gintas: if I have a paragraph which is translated and the paragraph has some <strong></strong> elements in it | 18:41 |
| bska|mobile | what's the correct way to translate that? | 18:41 |
| bska|mobile | currently I have <p i18n:translate="">blah blah <strong i18n:translate="">foo</strong> blah blah</p> | 18:42 |
| bska|mobile | currently I'm thinking <p><span i18n="">blah blah</span> <strong i18n:translate="">foo</strong> <span i18n="">blah blah</span></p> | 18:43 |
| srichter | shrug | 18:51 |
| bska|mobile | srichter: either one works? | 18:51 |
| srichter | bska|mobile: use <p i18n:translate="">blah blah <strong>foo</strong> blah blah</p> | 18:52 |
| bska|mobile | yay | 18:52 |
| bska|mobile | thanks | 18:52 |
| bska|mobile | didn't really want to have to do it the other way, since there's more than one strong tag | 18:52 |
| srichter | if foo is not generated by TAL then it is okay to have HTML markup as prt of your striong | 18:52 |
| bska|mobile | makes sense | 18:53 |
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| erchache | rosetta schooltool es_ES translation are finished! | 18:55 |
| erchache | When are include into schooltool package? on schooltool 1.1 on 31th may? | 18:55 |
| bska|mobile | erchache: that's exciting | 18:55 |
| th1a | erchache: Excellent! | 18:56 |
| th1a | We are doing a "release candidate," i.e. beta release later today. | 18:56 |
| erchache | i should finish howtos on spanish | 18:56 |
| th1a | Hopefully we can include it. | 18:56 |
| th1a | I should finish howtos in English... | 18:56 |
| bska|mobile | can we make them the es translation instead? until we have other es_XXs? | 18:56 |
| erchache | i can do spanish howto before 31th may | 18:56 |
| * bska|mobile chuckles | 18:56 | |
| erchache | bska|mobile: i see other es_XXs files and dont be good | 18:57 |
| erchache | es_ES are the best | 18:57 |
| * bska|mobile nods | 18:57 | |
| th1a | erchache: You mean the work done on the others isn't so good? | 18:57 |
| th1a | The other Spanish translations? | 18:57 |
| erchache | i write to launchpad to solve this bug....we dont have spanish variants on our language....im spanish...i born on Sevilla, southspain | 18:57 |
| erchache | well....im not sure about this....but es_ES looks good | 18:58 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:58 |
| bska|mobile | If we have a 100% es_ES transalation that could ship in the package, couldn't we make that es so that all es_XX locales inherit that? | 18:58 |
| * bska|mobile is not sure how substantial the difference from es_ES to es_CO or es_AR would be | 18:58 | |
| erchache | ok, but i think spanish user must be only one dictionarie | 18:59 |
| erchache | this can injured to project for spanish users | 18:59 |
| erchache | i see before in other projects | 18:59 |
| erchache | wikipedia, enciclopedia libre | 19:00 |
| erchache | i work on both | 19:00 |
| erchache | and im admin for enciclopedia libre | 19:00 |
| erchache | for example....chile and peru are angry | 19:00 |
| erchache | and can be use language to make a flamewar | 19:01 |
| erchache | do you understand me? | 19:01 |
| * bska|mobile nods | 19:01 | |
| th1a | I see. | 19:01 |
| bska|mobile | you mean that if we make es_ES used as es, when someone expects es_PE (peru), they will not like getting es_ES? | 19:02 |
| erchache | yes... | 19:08 |
| erchache | or es_CO (colombia) | 19:08 |
| erchache | or es_CH(Chile) | 19:08 |
| erchache | and RAE, real academy of language, official spanish organization, doesnt like this | 19:08 |
| erchache | we are second language of the world, and too many people speak same language, with local meanings for some words.....and RAE wants to solve it... | 19:10 |
| erchache | if you say mouse | 19:10 |
| erchache | errrr excuse me | 19:10 |
| erchache | cola | 19:10 |
| erchache | uff very difficult to explain to english speaker | 19:10 |
| erchache | :( | 19:10 |
| erchache | sorry | 19:10 |
| bska|mobile | erchache: that's ok, I'm pretty sure I understand | 19:11 |
| erchache | well i'll take a coffee.....i'll back on 30 minutes :D | 19:12 |
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| bska|mobile | th1a: I have to go out for a few hours, if the sys admin from canonical is around later can you email me the information? | 19:19 |
| th1a | Sure. | 19:20 |
| bska|mobile | thanks | 19:20 |
| th1a | Although I was going to step out for a few hours to run some errands, too... | 19:20 |
| bska|mobile | heh | 19:20 |
| bska|mobile | SteveA: do you have Canonical's sys admin's email address? | 19:21 |
| SteveA | bska|mobile: yes | 19:22 |
| SteveA | he has very strong anti-spam filters, though ;-) | 19:22 |
| tvon | heh | 19:23 |
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| tvon | any tips on debugging 'method not allowed' errors when working on rest views? | 19:34 |
| tvon | er, REST | 19:34 |
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| tvon|x31 | silly wifi | 19:35 |
| tvon|x31 | any tips on debugging 'method not allowed' errors when working on REST views? | 19:35 |
| srichter | yeah, use import pdb; pdb.set_trace() | 19:35 |
| tvon|x31 | ah | 19:37 |
| srichter | using pdb you can narrow down the method that you are not permitted to use | 19:41 |
| srichter | most likely it will be a missing security declarations | 19:41 |
| srichter | most likely it will be a missing security declaration | 19:41 |
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| tvon|x31 | tis pretty nice | 19:47 |
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| tvon | srichter: thanks | 20:00 |
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| gintas | ping th1a | 20:03 |
| th1a | Yessir. | 20:04 |
| gintas | hi | 20:04 |
| th1a | What's up? | 20:04 |
| gintas | sorry to bother | 20:04 |
| gintas | I had a few questions about the UI of timetables as overlays | 20:04 |
| th1a | No problem. | 20:04 |
| gintas | there are two parts: | 20:04 |
| gintas | 1) choosing the timetables to display in the overlay portlet | 20:05 |
| gintas | 2) choosing timetables to overlay in the portlet itself | 20:05 |
| gintas | one solution would be to always show a person's timetable together with his/her calendar | 20:05 |
| gintas | but I think you said yesterday that this is not a very good idea, as the result would be cramped | 20:06 |
| gintas | is that correct? | 20:06 |
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| gintas | basically I don't want to clutter the UI too much | 20:06 |
| th1a | I'd say 1) it would be ok for the timetable to always be a choice in the person's calendar view, if that would simplify things. | 20:06 |
| gintas | it's not really an implementation problem, but a UI problem | 20:07 |
| gintas | that's why I'm asking for your input | 20:07 |
| th1a | But that you should turn it on and off like a regular overlay. | 20:07 |
| gintas | you mean we should have two rows (items) for each person, corresponding to his calendar and his timetable? | 20:08 |
| bskahan | can we call 'timetable' 'schedule' in the UI? | 20:08 |
| bskahan | or something less abstract than timetable | 20:09 |
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| th1a | Schedule is more common usage in the US. | 20:09 |
| tvon | yeah | 20:09 |
| tvon | unless tt is common elsewhere | 20:09 |
| th1a | gintas: I'm not sure I understand your question. | 20:09 |
| th1a | Maybe I'm missing something. | 20:09 |
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| th1a | I've been imagining that to the user, the timetable just appears like another calendar overlay. | 20:10 |
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| gintas | ok | 20:10 |
| gintas | that is sensible | 20:10 |
| gintas | but there's the problem of limited width of the portlet | 20:10 |
| gintas | squeezing in 'Gintautas Miliauskas' is hard enough | 20:10 |
| gintas | 'Gintautas Miliauskas' timetable' would be even worse ;) | 20:11 |
| th1a | Ah. | 20:11 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:11 |
| th1a | Actually, it should probably be the name of the timetable. | 20:11 |
| th1a | If timetable schemas have names now. | 20:11 |
| gintas | we would be showing the composite timetable, not some individual one | 20:11 |
| gintas | at least that's how I understand it | 20:12 |
| th1a | OK. That's right. | 20:12 |
| th1a | Then just "Schedule" should be fine. | 20:12 |
| gintas | one other suggestion was to add a second column of checkboxes, but that's unintuitive | 20:13 |
| gintas | would it be acceptable not to provide the function to overlay timetables of others? | 20:14 |
| gintas | btw, it's Albertas' birthday, so we're leaving early | 20:14 |
| gintas | let me think this over | 20:15 |
| gintas | bye | 20:15 |
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| th1a | It's already after 8:00 pm. | 20:15 |
| th1a | That's early? | 20:15 |
| tvon | heh | 20:15 |
| th1a | Say "happy birthday" to alga for me! | 20:15 |
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| * jinty notes that he is about to start releasing schoolbell | 20:47 | |
| th1a | Cool. So... will the release include the Spanish translation? | 20:48 |
| jinty | no, it hasn't been committed | 20:51 |
| jinty | unless someone does it now | 20:51 |
| th1a | Ah... | 20:51 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps I could. | 20:51 |
| th1a | Export as MO file? | 20:52 |
| jinty | great! | 20:52 |
| erchache | jinty: i do it! | 20:53 |
| jinty | no, you have to run ./get-rosetta-translations.py from the schoolbell dir | 20:53 |
| erchache | what need to commit spanish translation file? | 20:53 |
| th1a | erchache: You don't have commit access to the repository. | 20:53 |
| erchache | ok ok | 20:53 |
| erchache | :S | 20:53 |
| erchache | sorry | 20:53 |
| th1a | Oh, and then just commit? | 20:53 |
| jinty | with a manual look over the files before | 20:54 |
| jinty | this is the first real use of the script... | 20:54 |
| jinty | you will also have to add the files/directories to the repository | 20:55 |
| erchache | jinty: you say my translation is a alpha version until stay on a production environment? | 20:55 |
| th1a | This is all a test release anyhow. | 20:55 |
| erchache | uffff a very busy work day! | 20:56 |
| jinty | th1a: forgot to say change create_dir to true in get-rosetta-translations.py | 20:56 |
| erchache | my brain is converting on soup! | 20:56 |
| th1a | erchache: ??? | 20:56 |
| bskahan | I often have that problem | 20:56 |
| jinty | erchache: you can ask in spanish as well, my writing is bad, but I undertand well | 20:57 |
| tvon | jinty: ah, but *which* spanish? :) | 20:57 |
| * jinty notes his written english is bad as well:( | 20:57 | |
| th1a | jinty: Is German your first language? | 20:58 |
| jinty | tvon: my spanish! | 20:58 |
| tvon | es_BS | 20:58 |
| jinty | no, embarrasingly enough, english | 20:58 |
| th1a | But you lived in Germany? | 20:59 |
| jinty | tvon: do you mean BS as in Bull Shit or Brian Sutherland? | 20:59 |
| erchache | arrrghhh this look like a marx's brother conversation! | 20:59 |
| * bskahan thought jinty was in spain | 20:59 | |
| th1a | jinty is in Spain. | 21:00 |
| bskahan | jinty: you suffer from the BS problem as well | 21:00 |
| th1a | Usually... | 21:00 |
| tvon | jinty: the latter, but the former would do if that's your preference | 21:00 |
| erchache | what is BS problem? | 21:00 |
| bskahan | having the initials BS | 21:00 |
| bskahan | results in lots of bad jokes | 21:01 |
| jinty | th1a: I was born and raised in south africa, then lived in holland on the german border, then went travelling a while and ended up in spain | 21:01 |
| jinty | somehow it makes sense | 21:01 |
| th1a | Ah, this is all more complicated than I thought. | 21:01 |
| jinty | or it did at the time | 21:01 |
| th1a | Am I committing these to the trunk? | 21:03 |
| jinty | yep | 21:03 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:03 |
| bskahan | saving https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/schoolbell/unknown/+pots/schoolbell-ui/de/po | 21:03 |
| bskahan | should get-rosetta-translations be pulling schoolbell-ui files? | 21:04 |
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| jinty | we updated it a few days ago with the schoolbell.pot, it seemed easiest | 21:04 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 21:04 |
| bskahan | ok | 21:04 |
| jinty | though I have a directory filled with the old .po files if anyone is interested | 21:05 |
| th1a | Is there such a thing as en_USfr ? | 21:07 |
| jinty | eek | 21:08 |
| bskahan | spoken around southern louisianna | 21:08 |
| th1a | And Maine. | 21:08 |
| th1a | Should that be en_US ? | 21:08 |
| jinty | th1a: bug in get-rosetta-translations.py: missing comma and python string continuation | 21:09 |
| th1a | Yeah, got it. | 21:09 |
| erchache | tomorrow more! i left.... | 21:13 |
| erchache | :D | 21:13 |
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| bskahan | a technical question | 21:14 |
| bskahan | since we have es_ES, es_MX but not es or es_CO, what do colombian users see? | 21:14 |
| jinty | no translation as I understand it | 21:15 |
| * bskahan admits being woefully uninformed about internationalization | 21:15 | |
| bskahan | jinty: that's my understanding as well | 21:15 |
| bskahan | but if we had es then someone in es_CO would get the es transaltions, correct? | 21:15 |
| jinty | I think yes | 21:16 |
| jinty | As far as I am concerned it is a matter of guiding translators. | 21:16 |
| * th1a wonders if there is a quicker way to add all these files... | 21:19 | |
| bskahan | th1a: add them to svn? | 21:20 |
| jinty | The way things seem to be working out with rosetta, we might want to let our translators get in contact with the ubuntu translation teams. But I will send a mail to the list... | 21:20 |
| th1a | bskahan: Yeah. I'm almost done anyhow. | 21:20 |
| bskahan | are you adding all of them? | 21:20 |
| th1a | Well, I just did, although perhaps I shouldn't have. | 21:21 |
| bskahan | I was thinking only add the ones with substantial coverage to the release | 21:21 |
| bskahan | you can % svn add dir | 21:21 |
| bskahan | to batch add files | 21:21 |
| bskahan | but I'm sort of against adding them all | 21:22 |
| th1a | Well... what does one see if the translation is incomplete? A mix of English and the other language? | 21:22 |
| jinty | yep | 21:22 |
| bskahan | oh, nm then | 21:22 |
| th1a | On the one hand, unprofessional. On the other, probably more likely to make someone want to finish it. | 21:23 |
| bskahan | I can't get the es_ES translation running here | 21:23 |
| bskahan | got the files from rosetta, set the schoolbell.conf.in language to es_ES and the browser locale is es | 21:24 |
| th1a | OK. Should I commit all these? | 21:24 |
| jinty | bskahan: make update-translations | 21:24 |
| bskahan | jinty: I did | 21:25 |
| * jinty tries it | 21:25 | |
| jinty | ah, browser locale to es_ES | 21:26 |
| bskahan | damn, I don't have that installed | 21:27 |
| jinty | th1a: maybe wait until bskahan and I sort that out | 21:27 |
| th1a | Too late. | 21:27 |
| th1a | Committed. | 21:27 |
| jinty | ok | 21:27 |
| jinty | well then | 21:27 |
| bskahan | heh | 21:27 |
| jinty | bskahan: parhaps try af (afrikaans) | 21:28 |
| bskahan | grabbing some more locales for firefox | 21:29 |
| bskahan | only have en_US, en, es, and es_CO | 21:29 |
| bskahan | hrm | 21:43 |
| bskahan | tried es_ES, no luck | 21:43 |
| bskahan | trying af now | 21:43 |
| bskahan | af works | 21:45 |
| bskahan | is afrikaans related to german? | 21:46 |
| srichter | I think afrikaans is a dialect of dutch, but I am not sure | 21:49 |
| * jinty breathes fire on strichter for mouthing such obscenities about a language from his homeland | 21:51 | |
| jinty | s/strichter/srichter | 21:51 |
| jinty | sorry | 21:52 |
| jinty | It's one of the 11 official languages in south africa, but very related to dutch. | 21:52 |
| jinty | alnost without grammer though "i am, you am, he am, we am, you (plural) am, they am" | 21:53 |
| th1a | Nice. | 21:54 |
| jinty | and, I think, one past and one future tense | 21:55 |
| jinty | but beautiful sounding words which probably won't be in the schoolbell translations | 21:58 |
| jinty | bskahan: it appears that the es_ES .po has errors. | 22:01 |
| bskahan | th1a: what do you think about reverting that last commit and we'll only include translations that are know to be good? | 22:03 |
| th1a | I'm fine with that. | 22:03 |
| th1a | I'm hoping we can find a volunteer to deal only with translations soon. | 22:04 |
| bskahan | though how that's determined I'm not sure | 22:04 |
| jinty | is it necessary, it looks like they don't compile to .mo files | 22:04 |
| th1a | Or, we can put them all out now and retract ones that seem to cause problems. | 22:04 |
| th1a | Or just retract all of them because they don't work. | 22:05 |
| th1a | :-) | 22:05 |
| bskahan | th1a: that's fine too | 22:05 |
| bskahan | jinty: is what necessary? | 22:05 |
| jinty | to revert them | 22:05 |
| bskahan | no, I guess we can just pull out any that turn out to have problems | 22:06 |
| jinty | I dont even have a .mo file for es_ES because it didn't compile | 22:06 |
| jinty | thats why es_ES doesn't work and af does | 22:06 |
| bskahan | I'm concerned about what erchache said about the quality of the transalations | 22:06 |
| th1a | I'm concerned that if nobody looks at the translations they'll never get better. | 22:07 |
| jinty | I also don't think we have the qualifications to judge their quality | 22:08 |
| srichter | key to a quality translation is a glossary | 22:08 |
| srichter | that lives separate from the translations itself | 22:08 |
| srichter | this is very common procedure in the professional worls | 22:08 |
| srichter | this is very common procedure in the professional world | 22:08 |
| th1a | Do we need some kind of tool for that? | 22:09 |
| srichter | well, in an ideal world you would want a translation memory | 22:10 |
| srichter | but for free projects | 22:10 |
| srichter | a simple table is enough | 22:10 |
| srichter | the key is that every translator can edit it and add comments | 22:10 |
| srichter | such as alternative translations | 22:10 |
| th1a | Can you point out an example? | 22:12 |
| srichter | we have sucked at this yet, though we have started something like it for Zope 3 (though it is not even remotely complete or enough) | 22:15 |
| * srichter looks for URL | 22:16 | |
| srichter | really my wife should have this conversation with you, since she does this dort of thing as her job | 22:16 |
| th1a | OK. That would be helpful. | 22:20 |
| srichter | http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/GermanDictionary | 22:20 |
| srichter | I am almost embarrassed to provide this link | 22:20 |
| srichter | it is actually pathetic ;-) | 22:20 |
| th1a | Well, I just get caught up in trying to figure out the "right" way to do that kind of thing, and end up getting nothing done. | 22:22 |
| srichter | ok, the glossary is key | 22:22 |
| srichter | it will ensure that the translations are uniform | 22:22 |
| srichter | btw, I think KBabel provides some functionalityin this area | 22:23 |
| srichter | any translator working with gettext should use it ;-) it's an awesome tool | 22:23 |
| srichter | it has a catalog manager, some translation memory support (though I have not successfully used it), and nice status reports | 22:24 |
| th1a | catalog manager? | 22:24 |
| srichter | you can manage all languages with it | 22:25 |
| * jinty , not wanting to inturrupt, notes he will branch now. Leaving the broken translations in, sending a email to erchache about es_ES. | 22:27 | |
| th1a | Hm... I think Rosetta needs a built-in glossary. | 22:33 |
| bskahan | th1a: +1 | 22:33 |
| srichter | yep, in fact that would have been the first I would have implemented | 22:33 |
| jinty | +1 | 22:34 |
| srichter | Barry Wrsaw and I layed out a big translation manager framework once | 22:34 |
| srichter | (on top of Zope 3) | 22:34 |
| srichter | but once I heard about Rosetta I lost interest | 22:34 |
| * jinty also votes for checking if the *.po files compile to *.mo within rosetta | 22:35 | |
| srichter | that's the reason you should never compile a PO file with plain text editors | 22:36 |
| srichter | and rosetta should really store messages internally as objects, so it can keep track of history and alternative translations | 22:36 |
| srichter | this would in fact be the base functionality of a tramslation memory (TM) | 22:37 |
| srichter | also, translations should not be stored on a project basis :-) | 22:37 |
| srichter | but using categories | 22:37 |
| srichter | the projects a message string belongs to should be merely an annotation | 22:38 |
| srichter | this way reuse of translations are easier | 22:38 |
| jinty | silly question: does vim deal with PO files correctly? | 22:40 |
| srichter | I think it has a gettext mode, yes | 22:42 |
| srichter | though, you are not getting many of the nice features of KBabel | 22:42 |
| srichter | such as message numbering, jumping to the next fuzzy or untranslated message, etc | 22:43 |
| jinty | thanks, I'll keep KBabal in mind if the need arises for anything more than minor things | 22:45 |
| srichter | btw, here is Barry and my design documents on a Translation Web Service | 22:46 |
| srichter | http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/TranslationWebService | 22:46 |
| srichter | mmh, maybe I should start implementing it, since I think Rosetta did not get it right | 22:47 |
| srichter | such a tool would be really cool, because all current translation tools suck in merging translations | 22:50 |
| srichter | i.e. merge updated translations from release 1.0.2 into the 1.1 or trunk tree | 22:50 |
| jinty | merging translations is also going to be an issue with schoolbell and rosetta, if people are working on schoolbell translations in the repository and rosetta at the same time | 22:51 |
| srichter | jinty: yes | 22:53 |
| srichter | usually SVN does this automatically for you, but in this case | 22:53 |
| srichter | I am so annoyed I did not know about Rosetts when it was in the design phase; I would have loved to provide some insight | 22:54 |
| jinty | yep, I wanted to build merging functionallity into get-rosetta-translations, but thats probably conceptually the wrong way. | 22:56 |
| *** bskahan has quit IRC | 22:57 | |
| jinty | strichter: insightful chat, but I need some sleep... | 22:59 |
| *** jinty has quit IRC | 22:59 | |
| *** th1a is now known as th1a|errands | 23:41 | |
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