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| tvon | is checkins.st.o down intentionally? | 04:54 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | Not to my knowledge. | 04:54 |
| tvon | I think its been down a while | 04:59 |
| * tvon shrugs | 04:59 | |
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| mgedmin_ | Anthony Baxter, the Python release manager says this about timezones: | 16:12 |
| mgedmin_ | `anthonyregebro: Really, really, really: Use UTC everywhere, and convert to a timezone at display-time.15:49 | 16:12 |
| mgedmin_ | `anthonyTimezones are only for display. | 16:12 |
| mgedmin_ | `anthonyYou will find your code is much saner and much more robust. | 16:12 |
| * tvon nods | 16:14 | |
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| tvon | mgedmin: have you looked into z3 generations much yet? | 16:33 |
| tvon | I'm wondering if we should go ahead and create a migrations/ directory with scripts for each iteration | 16:34 |
| tvon | and maybe toss a method into main.prepareDatabase that checks what version we have and what migrations need to be done | 16:35 |
| mgedmin | I have looked at the generations proposal a while ago, but not recently | 16:37 |
| mgedmin | it sounds like a good idea | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | new_application_object = upgrade0_8to0_9(old_application_object) | 16:38 |
| jinty | bskahan: my problem last night boils down to one question, what happens when schooltool 0.9 starts up and finds a 0.7 database? Is this different from what happens when 0.9 finds a 0.8 database? (hmm.. ok, 2) | 16:42 |
| bskahan | at the moment its not different | 16:44 |
| bskahan | that's something I want to change | 16:44 |
| mgedmin | I wish we had added an attribute application_root_object.db_version = '0.8' when we released 0.8 | 16:44 |
| tvon | yeah, having the version in there would be nifty | 16:44 |
| mgedmin | but back then we thought db backwards compatibility was not important before 1.0 | 16:45 |
| tvon | I think generations solves that | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | yes | 16:45 |
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| bskahan | in schooltool.main there's the choke point between 0.6 and 0.7, I want to add one between 0.7 and 0.8 | 16:45 |
| bskahan | unless we know that it always works | 16:45 |
| jinty | bskahan: so, in otherwords, 0.9 is compatible with databases from 0.7 and 0.8? | 16:46 |
| bskahan | no | 16:46 |
| bskahan | ;) | 16:46 |
| jinty | pity | 16:46 |
| bskahan | that's why I want to add something | 16:46 |
| jinty | btw: if you add a number that has to be changed at release time, pleas make sure I know about it | 16:47 |
| bskahan | ok | 16:47 |
| bskahan | don't think there's anything like that | 16:47 |
| * jinty goes to find out what happens to /vawhen 0. | 16:48 | |
| jinty | oops | 16:48 |
| jinty | ok, so 0.9 will be compatible with 0.8, but not 0.9? | 16:49 |
| jinty | change second 0.9 to 0.7 | 16:49 |
| bskahan | ;) | 16:49 |
| bskahan | compatible is a bad word | 16:49 |
| bskahan | there's some degree of migration from 0.8 to 0.9 | 16:50 |
| bskahan | but some data will be lost | 16:50 |
| * mgedmin dreams about a functional test for 0.8 to 0.9 migration | 16:50 | |
| jinty | ok | 16:50 |
| jinty | and 0.7 > 0.9 is a lost cause? | 16:50 |
| bskahan | so far | 16:51 |
| bskahan | unless it magically worked from 0.7 -> 0.8 | 16:51 |
| jinty | doubt that... | 16:51 |
| * mgedmin imagines a small Data.fs created with 0.8 checked into the repository, and a python script that makes a copy of that Data.fs, starts the server, and then verifies that the conversion succeeded. The script is not run by default when you do 'make ftest' as it could be time consuming | 16:52 | |
| * jinty dreams of packages not including zope 3;) | 16:54 | |
| * tvon dreams of ponies and butterflies | 16:57 | |
| tvon | Did we come to a decision IRT X3.0 vs X3.1? | 16:58 |
| tvon | IIRC it seemed clear that we had to use 3.0 if we wanted to get the package in where we want to get it in (eg, Ubuntu main) | 16:58 |
| tvon | in which case, are there z3 packages for debian at the moment? | 16:59 |
| mgedmin | I would prefer 3.1, but if it is not released in time, I have no qualms about going back to 3.0 | 17:00 |
| jinty | how much work would it be? | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | not much, I hope | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | hm... | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | did zope 3.0 have a working pluggable authentication service? | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | we were planning to base schoolbell's authentication on that | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | if we can't, we will have to find another solution | 17:02 |
| tvon | 3.1 has some nice additions that aren't in 3.0 as I understand it. It will be hard to not use them | 17:03 |
| jinty | it would also be nice to keep options open. | 17:03 |
| * jinty doesn't like the complaining part of release manager | 17:04 | |
| tvon | heh | 17:04 |
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| bskahan | mgedmin: pau wasn't released with 3.0 | 17:08 |
| bskahan | not sure if that means it didn't work | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | how can it work if it isn't there? | 17:18 |
| bskahan | it was in subversion | 17:19 |
| bskahan | not sure why it didn't get released | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | erk | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | I do not like that zope 3.0 subversion differs from zope 3.0 release tarball | 17:21 |
| tvon | heh, yeah. I saw some discussion about that on z3-dev, did they "fix" that? | 17:21 |
| bskahan | pau got renamed today | 17:23 |
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| bskahan | so using svn for development might be a pain to back down to 3.0 for a release later | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | yes | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | if we decide to stick with 3.0, we should change the svn:externals property to point to the 3.0 branch soon | 17:24 |
| * bskahan nods | 17:24 | |
| bskahan | I think we have to | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | if jinty tells me that there is no chance to get schoolbell 1.0 in ubuntu without switching to 3.0, I will do that now | 17:25 |
| bskahan | the impression I got was that 3.1 will release well after the end of february, but I could be wrong | 17:25 |
| jinty | woah! schoolbell will be in ubuntu, the question is whether it should be in supported or not | 17:26 |
| bskahan | what is ubuntu's EOL? 18 months? | 17:26 |
| tvon | Can it get into 'main' using a z3 svn snap? | 17:26 |
| th1a | I don't think we're going to be ready to get in main. | 17:27 |
| jinty | tvon: there is no 'main' in ubuntu, supported or universe | 17:27 |
| tvon | oh | 17:27 |
| tvon | jinty: then by 'main' I mean 'supported' | 17:27 |
| th1a | I don't think we will be ready to be supported. | 17:28 |
| * mgedmin nods | 17:28 | |
| * jinty nods | 17:28 | |
| th1a | We should think longer term. | 17:28 |
| tvon | Okay, then 3.0 is a moot point I think | 17:29 |
| jinty | a moment tvon: schoolbell 1.0 packages will contain a lot of zope | 17:30 |
| jinty | later, the schooltool 1.0 packages will come and need to use schoolbell modules and zope | 17:31 |
| jinty | but the two zopes will be different if we continue as now. | 17:31 |
| jinty | then things get very messy. | 17:32 |
| th1a | We'll have to put out SchoolBell 1.1 packages when Zope 3.1 comes out. | 17:32 |
| bskahan | aren't we going to run into debian versioning problems again that way? | 17:32 |
| jinty | Im trying to avoid that. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Argh. | 17:33 |
| jinty | th1a: so what you are saying is that schoolbell 1.1 and schooltool 1.0 are released out when zope 3.1 is released? | 17:36 |
| th1a | I'm just brainstorming here. | 17:36 |
| bskahan | what was the target date for ST 1.0? | 17:36 |
| th1a | Zope 3.1 should be out long before ST 1.0 (September 2005). | 17:37 |
| * bskahan nods | 17:37 | |
| th1a | And really, SchoolTool is the greater priority in the long run. | 17:37 |
| jinty | will there be releases of schooltool in between, i.e. 0.10 ...? | 17:38 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:38 |
| jinty | and these will need a copy of the schoolbell and zope modules around | 17:39 |
| th1a | We will release "SchoolTool Calendar" in the spring, which will just be SchoolBell plus the existing timetable and attendance functionality. | 17:39 |
| th1a | jinty: I imagine so. | 17:39 |
| th1a | mgedmin understands how the parts will fit together better than I do. | 17:40 |
| jinty | mgedmin: proposal, only increment the zope trunk revision on releases of schoolbell. | 17:42 |
| jinty | and ship zope in schoolbell only | 17:43 |
| th1a | I do think we'll standardize on 3.1 for a while. | 17:46 |
| th1a | My impression is that there are a lot of improvements in 3.1. | 17:46 |
| th1a | Enough to make it worth the bother, but after that we should be more sane. | 17:46 |
| bskahan | I agree with that assesment of 3.1, but I'm concerned about it not being released when schoolbell 1.0 comes out | 17:49 |
| * jinty thinks he should relax a bit. Maybe drink less coffee.... | 17:50 | |
| th1a | That is the problem. | 17:50 |
| jinty | is there an ETA for 3.1? | 17:50 |
| bskahan | not really | 17:50 |
| th1a | But I don't want to spend time rewriting our Z3.0 code to use features in Z3.1 | 17:50 |
| th1a | This is why SchoolTool originally wasn't dependent on Zope 3 :-) Too much of a moving target. | 17:51 |
| th1a | However, I'm much more worried about getting to where we need to be in six months. If we carry bloated .debs for a few months, it is ok with me. | 17:52 |
| th1a | And I'm not worried about getting out of Debian unstable in the next few months. | 17:53 |
| th1a | We're just unstable. | 17:53 |
| th1a | At this point. | 17:53 |
| bskahan | http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2005-January/013040.html | 17:54 |
| jinty | I agree, with the bloat comes complexity and bugs, I have proved it. | 17:54 |
| bskahan | 3.1 thread | 17:54 |
| th1a | I'll defer to mgedmin's judgment about whether or not we should use 3.0 or 3.1 right now. He knows way more about it than me. | 17:55 |
| * mgedmin reading backlog for past 40 minutes | 18:26 | |
| mgedmin | I'd like to defer to jinty's judgment | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | 3.1 would be nicer, but I don't think 3.0 will be too bad | 18:34 |
| bskahan | mgedmin: new_person.calendar = old_person.calendar will work? | 18:34 |
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| * jinty will think about it a while and give an answer later. | 18:35 | |
| mgedmin | bskahan, let me think a bit | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | you'd also have to also do new_person.calendar.__parent__ = new_person | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | iterate over all events, find those that have an owner attribute, and replace them | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | same for context | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | it would be simpler to just do | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | for event in old_person.calendar: | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | if event.owner: event = event.replace(owner=old_to_new_object_map[event.owner] | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | if event.context: event = event.replace(owner=old_to_new_object_map[event.context] | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | new_person.calendar.addEvent(event) | 18:38 |
| bskahan | ok | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | assuming you have a dict 'old_to_new_object_map' that contains all persons and resources at least | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | (there was a bug in my second if statement) | 18:39 |
| jinty | ok: | 18:42 |
| jinty | assumption 1: zope 3.1 will be out before schooltool 1.0 | 18:42 |
| jinty | assumtion 2: we are not trying to be in any kind of stable/supported distro before schooltool 1.0 | 18:43 |
| jinty | then we can continue moving towards zope 3.1. | 18:44 |
| jinty | but, I need some stability for the packaging. | 18:44 |
| jinty | specifically I need schooltool releases to be compatible with the zope and schoolbell libraries in the previous schoolbell release | 18:45 |
| jinty | Therefore I would propose to freeze the zope external revision between schoolbell releases. Until 3.1 comes around, then stick with that. | 18:46 |
| jinty | for a while. | 18:47 |
| th1a | That sounds reasonable to me. | 18:47 |
| jinty | And this will only need to start from the release of schoolbell 1.0. | 18:50 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:50 |
| jinty | great mgedmin? | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | sounds reasonable | 19:00 |
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| th1a | Time to go dig out again, they plowed under the corner in front of my house last night. | 19:58 |
| * tvon thinks th1a is just building snow forts | 19:58 | |
| tvon | "dig out the car", indeed | 19:59 |
| tvon | :) | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | pics! | 20:00 |
| jinty | Do we have to copy *.js files to the package as well? | 20:02 |
| mgedmin | I think so | 20:03 |
| jinty | oh dear | 20:04 |
| jinty | point of information: all of the functional tests pass if the schoolbell.js file is missing. but the web interface is broken. | 20:07 |
| tvon | mhm, whoops | 20:08 |
| * bskahan misses the battery applet from ubuntu warty | 20:13 | |
| tvon | cpufreq got some new icons | 20:22 |
| tvon | as did volume applet | 20:22 |
| jinty | kudos, I think the new ui looks really good. | 20:31 |
| * jinty will be going home soon and not able to be around tomorrow | 20:32 | |
| jinty | just in case someone was thinking of releasing 0.9 | 20:33 |
| bskahan | jinty: thanks | 20:34 |
| bskahan | heh | 20:34 |
| bskahan | mgedmin: do you want to add a database version attribute now? | 20:40 |
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| mgedmin | bskahan: yes | 20:48 |
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| th1a | http://www.flickr.com/photos/58943557@N00/tags/snow/ | 21:37 |
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