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| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 08:39 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is http://schooltool.org | 08:39 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by Aiste at Mon Oct 18 11:47:26 2004 | 08:39 | |
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| *mgedmin thinks about making calendar events mutable | 18:05 | |
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| *mgedmin wants to add __len__ to ICalendar | 19:25 | |
| th1a | SteveA: We're unsure about how to approach adding icons to SchoolBell. | 19:33 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | I'm assuming that we'll eventually pay someone to make a set for us, | 19:33 |
| th1a | but in the meantime it would be good to steal some from GNOME or other GPL'ed projects, just to get us going. | 19:34 |
| tvon|x31 | at least the gnome icons will match (since we're using the HIG colors) | 19:38 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 15 22:36:36 2004 | ||
| -->You are now talking on #schooltool | 22:36 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool is http://schooltool.org | 22:36 | |
| ---Topic for #schooltool set by Aiste at Mon Oct 18 11:47:26 2004 | 22:36 | |
| freakazoid | would it make any difference in whether private events were blocked for a different user who has access in the ACL? | 22:37 |
| th1a | I think the default is going to be for SchoolBell to only run the browser interface. | 22:37 |
| freakazoid | my wife saw all my private events as "busy time" only | 22:37 |
| th1a | I don't think they are different. | 22:37 |
| freakazoid | ok | 22:37 |
| freakazoid | I will file a wishlist item or something | 22:38 |
| th1a | The distinction about what "private" means is tricky. | 22:38 |
| th1a | We're looking at this from the point of view of a school. | 22:38 |
| freakazoid | yeah | 22:38 |
| bska|mobile | freakazoid: is PST -8 from UTC? | 22:38 |
| freakazoid | bska: yes | 22:38 |
| bska|mobile | thanks | 22:38 |
| freakazoid | th1a: How about separate ACLs? | 22:38 |
| th1a | It just gets more complicated, inevitably. | 22:39 |
| freakazoid | actually, with the separate ACLs, I'd suggest a separate URL for the "public" version of the calendar rather than showing it differently based on who's looking at it | 22:39 |
| th1a | I think that's probably a good idea, but I'll have to think about it. | 22:41 |
| th1a | Right now, "public" means "visible to anyone with 'view' permission" | 22:42 |
| th1a | "private" means "visible only to you" | 22:43 |
| th1a | Which isn't useful if someone other than you has "add" or "modify" permission. | 22:43 |
| bska|mobile | evolution, and I think, outlook handle free/busy vs. public/private seperatly | 22:43 |
| bska|mobile | free/busy is used for scheduling while public/private is more of an ACL concept | 22:44 |
| th1a | It seems to me that one solution would be to say that people with "add" or "modify" permission can also see "private" events. | 22:44 |
| bska|mobile | maybe only modify | 22:46 |
| bska|mobile | modify implies being able to see an existing event, but "add" could be used by an admin assistant to add a new event | 22:47 |
| th1a | Right. But then we get into that overwriting situation that freakazoid is worried about. | 22:48 |
| th1a | Maybe you need "modify" permission to add events via iCalendar file. | 22:49 |
| th1a | Perhaps you should only be able to "add" via the browser or XML. | 22:49 |
| bska|mobile | I think that would hurt a bit | 22:50 |
| th1a | Well, the idea is that if you have "add" and not "modify" you're only semi-trusted. | 22:51 |
| freakazoid | Hrrm | 22:51 |
| freakazoid | Let's assume separate URLs first of all | 22:51 |
| freakazoid | because giving you different data depending on who you are seems broken | 22:52 |
| bska|mobile | I'm not sure seperate URLs are required | 22:52 |
| freakazoid | it's confusing though | 22:52 |
| freakazoid | same url should be same data | 22:52 |
| bska|mobile | the visibility/editability can be handled in schooltool | 22:52 |
| bska|mobile | depending on your authentication | 22:52 |
| freakazoid | IMHO the ability to see private events should be a separate issue from modify permission | 22:53 |
| freakazoid | since I may want someone to be able to see all of my events but not change my calendar | 22:53 |
| bska|mobile | I tend to agree | 22:53 |
| bska|mobile | concerned about how to handle complex ACL in the UI for a non technical user though | 22:54 |
| th1a | OK. Just trying to think of ways to keep it simple. | 22:54 |
| freakazoid | I'm not sure it even makes sense to have an ADD acl | 22:54 |
| freakazoid | adding to a calendar but not being able to modify what you just added doesn't make much sense | 22:55 |
| th1a | It's more of a resource booking overlap. | 22:55 |
| bska|mobile | th1a: that's something seperate I wanted to talk about | 22:55 |
| th1a | You can add a reservation to use the library, but you can't remove someone else's. | 22:55 |
| freakazoid | resource reservations need to have owners | 22:56 |
| th1a | They do. | 22:56 |
| freakazoid | aah | 22:56 |
| th1a | Or they can, at least. | 22:56 |
| freakazoid | so add makes sense in that context | 22:56 |
| freakazoid | it doesnt' make sense for my personal calendar | 22:56 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 22:56 |
| freakazoid | unless once someone adds an event they can also modify that event | 22:57 |
| bska|mobile | accept in the context of a superior adding something to everyones calendar | 22:57 |
| freakazoid | if they add it they should be able to modify or delete the same event | 22:57 |
| *bska|mobile nods | 22:58 | |
| freakazoid | calendaring is hard :) | 22:58 |
| freakazoid | ok, I've opened two bugs, now for a feature | 22:58 |
| th1a | Yes, managing this project has gotten a little weird for me in that regard. I'm here for the school administration stuff, I don't have much inherent interest in calendars! | 22:59 |
| bska|mobile | it gets more interesting as you beat your head against it | 22:59 |
| th1a | I suppose. Booking resources I have more of a feel for. | 23:00 |
| bska|mobile | outlook doesn't support iCal does it? | 23:01 |
| freakazoid | it uses vCalendar for free/busy time but that's all I know of | 23:02 |
| freakazoid | it can send meeting requests in vCalendar format if you put it in internet mode | 23:02 |
| bska|mobile | freakazoid: thanks, that's what I was afraid of | 23:03 |
| freakazoid | I am pretty sure it's not capable of publishing the entire calendar in any standard format | 23:03 |
| freakazoid | th1a: Calendaring is a very big thing though | 23:04 |
| freakazoid | th1a: There is no good calendar server out there | 23:04 |
| freakazoid | at least, not one that interoperates well with standard clients | 23:04 |
| th1a | Oh, I see the value in it, and I think it is a great strategic move for us. | 23:04 |
| freakazoid | unless OGO or eGroupWare does. I haven't tested either. | 23:04 |
| freakazoid | cool | 23:04 |
| bska|mobile | th1a: good future bounty for school* - zidestore adapter to fake an exchange connection | 23:04 |
| th1a | zidestore? | 23:05 |
| bska|mobile | the exchange adapter used for open groupware | 23:05 |
| freakazoid | bska|mobile: The value may be low though because it only implements the WebDAV interface with I believe Outlook won't use without a commercial plugin | 23:05 |
| freakazoid | err s/with/which | 23:05 |
| bska|mobile | freakazoid: you may be right, I haven't looked into it in quite some time | 23:06 |
| bska|mobile | the OGo outlook adapter is $25 per user, iirc | 23:06 |
| freakazoid | Yeah,you need Zidelook or Bynari Connector | 23:06 |
| freakazoid | :( | 23:06 |
| freakazoid | actually it does look like OGO will work with iCalendar clients | 23:07 |
| freakazoid | looks like egroupware will too | 23:08 |
| bska|mobile | imap/ldap/schoolbell with thunderbird/sunbird would get you pretty close to an open source exchange/outlook replacement | 23:08 |
| freakazoid | I'd rather use Schoolbell though | 23:08 |
| freakazoid | OGO will get you that all in one package | 23:08 |
| freakazoid | I've already done the IMAP/LDAP thing with other software | 23:09 |
| *bska|mobile nods | 23:09 | |
| freakazoid | specifically Postfix, Cyrus, and OpenLDAP | 23:09 |
| freakazoid | I don't know why I need a "framework" for every application I have | 23:11 |
| freakazoid | egroupware supposedly has great calendaring but crappy webmail | 23:11 |
| bska|mobile | egrouware/phpgroupware are both nice | 23:12 |
| freakazoid | Being written in PHP is a major handicap from my point of view though | 23:12 |
| freakazoid | PHP needs to be eradicated from the planet | 23:12 |
| bska|mobile | :) | 23:12 |
| freakazoid | If you really need PHP to make it easy enough for you to write a web app because you're a content developer, you shouldn't be writing web apps | 23:13 |
| freakazoid | even better, if you need to learn a little bit of programming for a quick hack, you should at least use a real programming language for it that's actually capable of being used for more than just quick hacks | 23:14 |
| freakazoid | Maybe we need a mod_psp | 23:14 |
| freakazoid | based on cheetah | 23:14 |
| freakazoid | make it look just like PHP except that it's python internally | 23:15 |
| bska|mobile | freakazoid: take a look at webware | 23:15 |
| freakazoid | webware is cool | 23:15 |
| freakazoid | except I have no interest in PSP myself :) | 23:16 |
| freakazoid | combining code and content is bad | 23:16 |
| freakazoid | I guess you can use regular cheetah templates with webware too | 23:16 |
| freakazoid | IMHO skunk is cooler than webware | 23:17 |
| freakazoid | but it doesn't seem to be maintained any more | 23:17 |
| freakazoid | and STML sucks | 23:17 |
| freakazoid | I don't want a templating language that looks like HTML | 23:18 |
| freakazoid | one thing I don't like about ZPT | 23:18 |
| bska|mobile | ? | 23:18 |
| bska|mobile | being xml based? | 23:18 |
| freakazoid | STML is Skunk's templating language | 23:18 |
| freakazoid | yeah, there's no reason for it | 23:18 |
| freakazoid | what if you want to generate something other than XML with it? | 23:19 |
| freakazoid | Cheetah is much more concise as well | 23:19 |
| freakazoid | though it's not cross-language | 23:19 |
| freakazoid | Whereas ZPT isn't really tied to Python | 23:19 |
| freakazoid | ZPT is the second least bad templating system I know of :) | 23:20 |
| freakazoid | ok, time for lunch | 23:20 |
| th1a | freakazoid: thanks for your input. | 23:22 |
| *mgedmin googles STML | 23:23 | |
| th1a | mgedmin: Are you going to be working on all-day events? | 23:24 |
| mgedmin | probably not | 23:25 |
| mgedmin | timezones are higher in the priority list | 23:25 |
| *mgedmin fails to find a representative example of STML, looks at the first chapter of the reference manual, and goes away unimpressed | 23:26 | |
| th1a | OK. | 23:26 |
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| freakazoid | I joined the mailing lit | 23:38 |
| freakazoid | err list | 23:38 |
| th1a | cool | 23:39 |
| freakazoid | is the main discussion list for dev discussion? | 23:39 |
| th1a | It can be. | 23:39 |
| th1a | There's not enough traffic overall to subdivide. | 23:39 |
| freakazoid | Is that the appropriate plac eto be if I'm intersted in development? | 23:39 |
| freakazoid | ok | 23:39 |
| th1a | Someday... | 23:40 |
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