IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2015-12-14

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th1ahi replaceafill.17:31
replaceafillhey th1a17:31
th1aHow was your weekend?17:33
replaceafillall the linodes were restarted :O17:34
th1aYes, did you get the warning about that?17:34
replaceafilli didn't pay attention to the dates though17:34
replaceafilluntil i saw the reboot emails17:34
replaceafilleuropeafrica is going to restart tonight i think17:35
th1aI don't think any of our current clients is uptight enough to require a warning.17:36
th1aDo you know anything about this:
replaceafilli don't understand the first part17:40
replaceafillabout the two passwords17:40
th1aI think he thinks we just copy the LDAP password into SchoolTool and then use SchoolTool auth.17:41
th1aDo we use the local copy as a fallback or something?17:42
replaceafilli don't think so17:42
replaceafilli kind of remember i tried that last time we talked ldap issues17:42
replaceafillpasswords are hashed in ST17:43
th1aBasically, our LDAP implementation is actually checking the LDAP server every login, right?17:44
replaceafillyes, i think so17:44
th1aAll right...17:45
replaceafilloh, and passwords are hashed using sha-117:46
th1aSo shall we discuss Fran's new year requirements.17:46
th1aWrite some blueprints?17:46
th1aOK, first new thing is in row...17:49
th1aOh... shoot.17:49
th1aOh, right.17:50
th1aGot confused for a sec.17:50
th1aOK row 12 - streams.17:50
th1aOK, so just for reference, the thing about streams is that they might be rearranged in a number of ways.17:50
th1aLike, they might have the same kids but a new title, or they may need to split or merge streams from year to year.17:51
th1aSo that's why it definitely needs the full spreadsheet treatment.17:51
th1aNow, the idea is to create a template from the previous year's streams.17:52
th1aI think this can go as a report on the steam page?17:53
th1aThat makes more sense to me than anything else.17:53
th1aThat'll do for starters.17:53
replaceafillonly one stream at a time?17:53
th1aAll of them -- so the streams index page.17:54
th1aSo the link could be "Export streams from previous year"17:54
th1aAnd description "This creates a spreadsheet of the previous years streams and enrollments, updated for this year.  You can edit this sheet and then import it from the "?" link on the School page."17:57
th1aI don't remember what the link says in the new version.17:57
replaceafillfor the xls importer?17:58
replaceafillImport XLS17:58
th1aMake sense?18:00
th1aIt should work with the current importer, of course.18:00
replaceafillso, what's the user supposed to do with the export?18:00
th1aChange it around as necessary.18:01
replaceafillwould the export automatically set the new year in the exported sheet?18:01
replaceafillwhat about the date for membership?18:02
replaceafillbeginning of the year?18:02
th1aReady to move on?18:03
th1aOK, I don't think we really changed this after the email discussion.18:04
th1aYear migration/promotion proposal18:04
replaceafillwhat do you mean?18:05
th1aI mean, regarding promoting students, that's the email thread.18:06
th1aThat is, in our discussion we didn't add anything important.18:06
th1aIn our skype discussion, that is...18:06
replaceafillwe're going to split the form functionality18:06
th1aCan we do that with the tertiary navigation tabs for the two forms?18:07
th1aOne link from the main page for "Promotion"18:07
th1aThen Promotion | Graduation tabs?18:07
replaceafillmain page as in School page, right?18:07
replaceafillin the year section18:07
replaceafillso, promotion is just for modifying levels18:08
replaceafillit only shows students who can advance levels18:08
replaceafilldate widget18:08
replaceafillto change them all18:08
replaceafilli mean, a single date widget18:09
replaceafilland that's it, right?18:09
replaceafilland Graduation18:10
replaceafillkind of the same18:10
replaceafillbut will only show students in the last level?18:10
th1aAnd it just needs checkboxes.18:11
th1aI guess the levels one should...18:11
th1aMaybe it really should just have checkboxes too.18:11
th1aDouglas Cerna | 3 | promote to level 4 [ ]18:12
th1aThat would cut down on possible weirdness and confusion.18:12
th1aAccidentally skipping a level, etc.18:12
replaceafilloh you mean for the Promotion tab?18:12
replaceafillwe assume you cannot go from 3 to 5 right?18:13
replaceafillwhat about people who leave?18:14
replaceafillyou mark them individually?18:14
replaceafilli mean18:14
replaceafillfrom their person page18:14
th1aThis is just for promotion.18:14
replaceafillso the checkbox is to be explicit about the change18:14
th1aAnd if you want something special like jumping a grade that's rare enough to not complexify this form.18:14
th1aThe whole idea is some people aren't promoted.18:14
th1aBut most are.18:14
replaceafillshould the checkbox go in the last column?18:15
th1aI'd think.18:15
replaceafilland are we going to add "select all/select none"?18:15
th1aThey should be selected by default.18:15
replaceafillah ok18:15
th1aOK, the one catch is that she wants the promotion as of the first day of the following year, and graduation as of the last day of the previous year.18:18
th1aIf you follow me.18:18
replaceafillyou run promotion from the empty year, right?18:19
replaceafillor from the full one?18:19
replaceafilli don't see that difficult18:19
replaceafillwe just need to decide where to put the links18:19
th1aI think it is more of an end of year activity.18:19
th1aI would put it in the previous year.18:20
th1aThere may be some tweaking of that.18:20
replaceafilldoesn't match streams, but ok18:20
replaceafillin any case we can detect the previous/next years18:20
replaceafilland set the dates accordingly18:20
th1aThe placement may end up getting rearranged.18:21
th1aHer notes on 14-17 are a little confusing.18:22
th1aI don't think anything new is necessary.18:22
th1aJust bringing the groups across.18:22
replaceafillwe didn't discuss the Graduation tab?18:23
replaceafillbut it's the same ,right?18:23
replaceafilleven the checkboxes?18:24
th1aAlso, I guess in both cases we're just talking about what the *default* date should be.18:24
th1aYes, definitely checkboxes for graduation.18:24
th1aAnd it can just be:18:24
th1aName | Graduate?18:24
th1aDouglas Cerna | [ ]18:24
th1aI guess we might need ID in those forms too because of duplicates.18:25
th1aDuplicate names.18:25
replaceafilloh good point18:25
replaceafilloh i remembered something18:28
replaceafillhold on18:28
replaceafillah never mind, the GRADUATED state is already there18:29
replaceafillok, moving on?18:29
th1aHer notes on 14-17 are a little confusing.18:30
th1aI don't think anything new is necessary.18:30
replaceafillshe means the "add school year" form, right?18:30
th1aExcept to check to make sure we aren't bringing across inactive students/teachers.18:30
th1aThat form might not be smart about statuses.18:30
replaceafillquestion again becomes about dates18:31
replaceafilliirc that form uses "today" to set states18:31
* replaceafill checks18:31
th1aThat really should be the beginning of the new year.18:32
replaceafillyeah, it just uses .add(...)18:32
replaceafillno date18:32
replaceafillthat needs to change18:32
replaceafillok, small changes to that view18:34
replaceafillmoving to row 18?18:34
th1aThat's the stream excel we already discussed.18:35
replaceafilli'm not clear about the format18:35
replaceafillof the sheet18:35
replaceafillstream groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!18:35
replaceafillis this for the group simulation of streams?18:36
replaceafillthe one we use in some places18:36
replaceafilllike fees?18:36
th1aWell, we need to get everyone onto real streams.18:36
replaceafillno wait18:36
th1aThey're not going to start next year on fake streams.18:36
replaceafillproblem is fees18:36
replaceafilliirc that's the biggest change18:37
th1aWe'll have to discuss that with Fran in Jan.18:37
replaceafillor maybe i'm just misinterpreting th row18:37
replaceafilland stream group means something else to her18:38
replaceafillon friday i understood this new importer would set up sections?18:38
replaceafillsomehow from streams18:38
th1aRow 23?18:39
replaceafillno, 1818:39
replaceafilloh, never mind18:39
replaceafillrow 23 is what we discussed, not 1818:39
th1aI mean, it is a good point that some of them may still be on "group" streams.18:40
th1aWe just have to get them off that.18:40
replaceafillso, should we assume here we're not going to use groups anymore?18:41
th1aWe can't start another year with that.18:41
th1aStreams will be in 3.0.18:41
replaceafillthen row 18 is unnecessary, right?18:41
th1aIt is redundant.18:41
th1aI think "new addition" might mean to her instructions, or something.18:42
th1a22 is no change.18:42
th1a23 -- we already decided that we can't do this with a spreadsheet?18:43
replaceafillright, because of the dropdowns18:43
th1aOK, so I was thinking about this.18:43
th1aWe can hold off for Fran, but I think the most obvious way to do it is to create a form off the individual stream page.18:44
th1aWhere you have a row with:18:44
th1aSection ID ________ | Course | Instructor18:45
th1aMaybe a column for Section Title too.18:45
th1aThe alternative would be to do this per course, selecting the streams.18:45
th1aBut I tend to think it would be done from the stream.18:45
replaceafillyeah, makes sense to see all the students first i guess18:46
replaceafillthe goal is to create several sections at once, right?18:46
replaceafillfrom the same set of students18:47
th1aIt would have a set number of rows, I think.18:47
th1aLike 12 rows.18:47
replaceafillor Add rows functionality?18:47
th1aNo, I don't think we need that.18:48
replaceafilli don't like leaving the term out of this18:48
replaceafillbut if it's ark specific...18:48
th1aTerm would complexify it.18:49
replaceafillthe Instructor dropdown would be people from the teachers group, right?18:49
th1aSince we don't know how many terms, etc.18:49
replaceafilli mean, kind of like the add section view: start term and end term18:50
replaceafillmaybe we could make it smarter enough18:50
replaceafillit's there's only one term, prefill18:50
replaceafillor even don't show18:50
replaceafillprefill read only makes sense to me18:50
replaceafilland it'd work for ark18:50
th1aOK, you could do that.18:51
replaceafillwhy do we give control on the id of the section?18:52
replaceafillin this form18:52
th1aDo they generally use it?18:52
replaceafilljust for the importer i'd think18:52
th1aI was thinking they did.18:52
th1aThis is like an importer, functionally.18:53
th1aJust not... importing.18:53
replaceafilllet's add it and ask her when we show it to her18:55
replaceafilli don't see meaningful ids, at least in rising18:55
replaceafillthat is, meaning section ids18:55
th1aWe could do subject-stream to generate id's.18:55
th1aOK, so Assessment sets need a checkbox on the add form.18:57
th1aI hope that doesn't make your brain explode.18:57
th1aIdeally they'll link to subjects as well.18:57
replaceafillthe subjects part does :S18:57
replaceafilli mean, it's just big18:58
replaceafillshouldn't be complicated18:58
replaceafillif they just carry weights18:58
th1aJust bringing it all across as is.18:58
th1aWe might only want to allow Assessment Sets to come over if Subjects are checked.19:01
replaceafilloh, sections created from the stream page should get linked to the stream19:01
replaceafillso when someone new is added, etc19:01
replaceafilladded to the stream*19:02
replaceafillfinally fees19:02
replaceafillmanually done19:02
replaceafillat first glance this looks like more than 3 days th1a19:03
replaceafillwe're "fixing" promotion on us, right?19:03
th1aWell, yes.19:03
replaceafillfixing as do it again :)19:03
replaceafillbut not graduation?19:03
th1aI mean, the original form was supposed to do both.19:04
replaceafilloh ok19:04
replaceafillso that whole part is on us19:04
th1aThat's the one thing that we just totally dropped the ball on.19:04
th1aPretty much the only part though!19:04
th1aOK. Let me make these blueprints.19:05
th1aAnything else?19:05
replaceafillno, that's it19:05
replaceafillquick question19:05
th1aI'm going to be working on the paper this week.19:05
replaceafillwhy do they need the export streams functionality?19:05
replaceafillcan't they just take the streams sheets from the exporter?19:05
replaceafillthe school exporter19:06
replaceafilland edit that?19:06
th1aI think just not having all the other sheets and having to reset the dates will be less stressful.19:06
replaceafillbecause all the smart work the exporter would do is to set up the new year ids, right?19:07
replaceafillso they can focus on the students i guess19:07
* replaceafill done19:08
replaceafillfortunately this is way clearer now :)19:08
th1aYeah, it is not doing a lot to the sheet -- so hopefully it is easy for you to create.19:08
th1aThanks replaceafill.19:09
replaceafillthanks th1a19:09
th1areplaceafill: Can you look over the blueprints and let me know if I'm missing anything.19:39
th1aI think it boils down to four tasks.19:40
replaceafillth1a, ok19:40
replaceafillth1a, don't we need the section title in the stream-section-form?19:42
th1aDo we?19:42
th1aI mean, do they use them?19:42
replaceafillthey use custom titles19:42
th1aOK, I'll add that.19:43
replaceafillotherwise it's impossible in the current navigation to know what is what19:43
replaceafillfrom the gradebook for instance19:43
th1aWe could generate it if one isn't provided.19:43
replaceafillsure, that's what the add view does19:44
th1aWe've not done a gradebook import for ARK, right?19:49
th1aJust checking.19:54
replaceafillth1a, i think everything we discussed is there19:54
replaceafill(in the blueprints)19:54
th1aOK, cool.19:54
th1aI tend to think we should just hold off on the section creator.19:54
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th1aI don't think there is any way to simplify the others if she was worried about expense.19:59
replaceafillme neither20:00
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th1aIt would, by the way, make several people happy if we could fix the excel export row limit issue before Christmas (if we have some time now).20:20
replaceafillwhat's the plan with these ark blueprints?20:25
replaceafillwait until january?20:25
replaceafillth1a, ?20:26
th1aOh, well, starting them now except the section creator.20:26
th1aSorry if that wasn't clear.20:26
replaceafillah ok20:27
replaceafillare we going to estimate the blueprints?20:27
replaceafillor just go ahead and say "this took X"20:27
replaceafillchanges to add year form looks like 2-4 hours20:28
replaceafillbut one thing i just noticed20:28
replaceafillis that assessment sets is ark specific20:28
replaceafillwe need either to override the view20:29
replaceafillor allow plugins to modify it20:29
th1aShe's offline, so whichever.20:29
th1aMight as well just say "this took X"20:29
th1aWe could have a different work around for sets if that would be easier.20:30
replaceafillwhat kind of work around?20:30
th1aLike a link from the Assessment Sets page.20:30
replaceafillthat's definitely easier20:31
replaceafillleave the view alone20:31
replaceafillthe assessment sets part is basically this story20:31
replaceafillthe other two items are 1 hour20:31
replaceafilland a separate link would be 2-3 hours probably20:32
replaceafillcan you update the blueprint?20:33
replaceafilli guess this should be done from the *new* year, right?20:33
replaceafill"copy from past year" or whatever20:33
replaceafillfeel free to use coherent link titles :D20:34
replaceafillthe streams template also sounds like 2-4 hours20:36
replaceafillso i could start with these two20:36
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