IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2015-09-04

*** khildin has quit IRC00:49
*** replaceafill has quit IRC03:27
*** povbot has joined #schooltool04:02
*** povbot has joined #schooltool06:34
*** khildin has joined #schooltool09:30
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool17:15
th1ahi replaceafill.18:19
replaceafillhey th1a18:22
th1aOK, permanent crown in place.18:23
th1aHad a little cement stuck between the teeth that was a bitch to get out.18:23
th1aSo that took a little while.18:24
th1aOK, so how are we doing on estimating these tasks for Fran?18:26
replaceafilldo we have the requirements for streams?18:26
th1aAh, let's discuss that.18:27
replaceafillfrom peas18:27
replaceafillit was streams and...?18:27
replaceafillthe dashboard, right?18:27
th1aYeah.  Right.18:27
th1aMan, I was very scattered yesterday.18:28
th1aI ended up having to put the vat on my personal credit card.18:28
th1aI'm going to get SIELibre a credit card.18:28
th1aCouldn't get the UK tax site to take our debit card this time.18:28
replaceafilli thought we already had one18:29
th1aWe have a debit card.18:29
replaceafillgot it18:29
th1aI'll get one from the same bank, pretty much just for this purpose.18:29
replaceafillmakes sense18:29
th1aOK, so I'll look at the dashboard more this afternoon and try to come up with some ideas.18:30
th1aStreams then...18:32
th1aSo, basically associating a stream with one or more *sections*.18:33
replaceafillstream has members18:33
replaceafillwith status18:33
replaceafilllet's enumerate the requirements :)18:34
replaceafillwhat about the access to the streams?18:34
replaceafillschool page, from the school year section18:34
th1aOK, let me back up.18:35
th1aDo we have streams?18:35
th1a*me loses track of these things...*18:35
replaceafilleeh no18:35
th1aWe haven't created these special groups yet.18:35
th1ado we need special groups?18:35
th1aOr should we just do this for all groups?18:35
replaceafilli mean, they're group-ish in the sense they have members18:36
th1aRIght now streams are groups?18:36
replaceafillyeah, streams are just groups18:36
replaceafilland usuallly when we present Streams popups or whatever, we just filter default groups out18:36
th1aOK.  I guess I'm the one who has been advocating for making streams separate.18:37
* th1a is loading this discussion into working memory.18:37
th1aOK, so let's assume that streams are just special groups.18:38
replaceafillshould streams be attached also to levels?18:38
th1aYeah, probably, but I don't think it is an immediate case.18:38
th1aI think we should probably take the opportunity to make streams their own objects.18:39
th1aIf we can squeeze it in.18:39
th1aOtherwise, essentially a student's membership status in a stream has to be propogated to the attached sections.18:40
replaceafilli think they should be a separate object18:41
th1aThey wouldn't HAVE to be.18:41
th1aBut it is an unnecessary short cut at this point to keep them as regular groups.18:42
replaceafilli agree18:43
th1aAlso, we'll have to think about how statuses will map.  Would it be sane for streams to just have the same statuses as sections?18:44
th1afor enrollment.18:44
replaceafillwe have:18:45
replaceafillinactive, active, and completed18:45
replaceafillas "meaning" codes18:46
replaceafillfor sections18:46
replaceafillwe haven't used the completed one18:46
replaceafilli remember there's a viewlet for completed courses...18:46
th1aOK, "completed" doesn't make sense in that context.18:47
* replaceafill stands corrected18:47
replaceafillwe have a completed courses viewlet18:47
replaceafillthat displays only when you are member of a completed section18:47
replaceafilli mean18:48
replaceafillyou're a member of a section and you have a completed status :)18:48
replaceafillyou mean completed doesn't make sense for streams?18:48
replaceafillor for sections?18:48
th1aOh, ok, wait.18:49
th1aOK, so if you make a change at the section level (to a student enrollment) it doesn't propogate back to the stream at all anyhow.18:49
th1aIt is a one way relationship.18:49
th1aSo I'd say streams should share section enrollment statuses.18:50
th1aKeep it simple.18:50
th1aIf you change a student's enrollment status for a stream, it is sent to the sections.18:50
th1aThat's it.18:50
replaceafillso, we need a /streams view18:52
replaceafillwith tabs for years18:52
replaceafilllike /sections and /groups18:52
replaceafilladd view, with just title + description18:53
replaceafilla view on the stream to "edit" sections18:53
replaceafillnot sure if we need two separate steps for adding and editing18:54
th1aWe usually end up needing two.18:55
replaceafillit'll be a relationship view, right?18:55
replaceafilli mean18:55
replaceafillrelationship between the stream and the sections18:55
replaceafillwe don't have two steps for relationship views18:57
replaceafillit just starts empty18:57
replaceafill(for the current table)18:57
replaceafillwhat happens to current members when you relate/unrelate sections18:58
th1aYes, whatever it takes, replaceafill.18:58
replaceafillchanges propagate18:58
th1aI would say yes but we should ask Fran.18:59
replaceafilland new members of the stream pick the current related sections19:00
replaceafillagain, streams should be accessed from School19:00
replaceafillmaybe between Subjects and Subject sections?19:01
replaceafillCourses and Sections in standard ST19:01
replaceafillwhat else...19:02
th1aThere's not that much to it.19:03
replaceafillhave live search like courses and sections, right?19:05
th1aOK.  Do you want me to update the blueprint based on this discussion?19:05
replaceafill(meaning we need a catalog)19:05
th1aProbably it should have all the same functionality.19:05
replaceafilli'm breaking my notes down19:05
th1aIf you've got the notes maybe just paste them in.19:05
replaceafillto get estimate each part19:05
replaceafilloh no19:05
replaceafillmy notes are usually IRC copy/paste19:05
replaceafillwith little adjustments19:05
th1aThat's all I'd do!19:06
replaceafill(need catalog, table formatter)19:06
th1aWhy don't you paste them in and I'll clean 'em up.19:06
replaceafillok, let me try to clean them19:06
th1aIt is a white board!19:06
replaceafillcan you please look for the blueprint19:06
th1aI just renamed it.19:08
replaceafillLink streams to particular classes to allow... ?19:09
replaceafillso, it's a requirement19:09
replaceafillstream <-> level19:10
th1aWell, we'll need further discussion.19:11
th1aWhat is a "Class?"19:11
th1aOK. Maybe we just need to discuss this further before we take it any further or write down estimates.19:14
th1aOh, this isn't in the rising milestone anyhow.19:16
th1aBUt it is one she mentioned was a priority.19:16
th1aOK, anyhow.19:16
replaceafillok, improve:19:17
replaceafillah crap19:18
replaceafill sta\19:18
replaceafilltemporal \19:19
th1aOK.  Thanks.19:19
th1aAll right, a lot of these rising things are probably simple but we still have questions about.19:19
th1aDid you spend any time with the app api?19:20
replaceafilli was working on the package19:20
th1aThis is an android app.  Maybe we can get a copy.19:20
replaceafillputting the logo, etc19:20
th1aMaybe if you have time work on that?19:20
replaceafilli was thinking of just poking the api19:21
replaceafillfrom postman and python script19:21
replaceafilli was thinking of starting by querying the "data model"19:21
replaceafilland go from there19:21
replaceafilli also started the teacher/student/school attendance score system preference work19:22
th1aI mean, at some point.19:22
replaceafillwe'll need it anyway19:22
replaceafillto allow plugins to use their own scoresystems19:22
replaceafillwe still need feedback on the other things i guess19:23
replaceafillall i have (concrete) is the score system for rising19:23
th1aWe should be able to nail most of these down quickly after the chat on Monday.19:24
replaceafillnot sure if we had a conclusion on the comments?19:24
replaceafilli mean, assessment - comments19:25
replaceafilloh sorry19:25
replaceafilli should talk blueprints ;)19:25
replaceafilloh yeah19:25
replaceafillthat's what you said in the meeting19:25
replaceafillthe "long asked for" part :)19:25
replaceafillbut i'm not sure how are we going to handle19:26
th1aRealistically, it should be like double click on any of the cells in all our gradebooky things, and add a comment to the score.19:26
th1aIt should just be universal.19:26
replaceafilllike it should work on the journal too?19:27
th1aI'd "pay" for a few SIELibre days if we could get it done.19:27
replaceafilland cando, etc19:27
th1aI mean, these are the kind of things I said 10 years ago.19:27
replaceafilldefine "pay"...19:27
th1aNot charge Fran.19:27
replaceafillah ok19:27
th1aAs in, give you LESS money.  ;-)19:27
replaceafilli'm not sure about the double click part19:28
replaceafillbut in any case19:28
replaceafillleaving UI out19:28
th1aDouble click or right click.19:28
replaceafillwouldn't just annotating the score work19:28
replaceafilloh wait19:28
replaceafillscores have history19:29
replaceafillit's not the score19:29
replaceafillit's the evaluation19:29
replaceafillwould you need different comments for the history?19:29
th1aFor each evaluation?19:30
replaceafillgradebook cell = evaluation19:30
replaceafillevaluation has score history19:30
th1aYou'd need to record them in the history, yes.19:30
replaceafillcan you explain the UI for that case19:32
th1aI mean, it would come up in the history view?19:32
replaceafillhistory is stored as a list19:32
th1aYeah, it would be in the list.19:33
replaceafillbut i mean, the input19:33
replaceafillfrom a blank unscored cell19:33
th1aWe might need a no score evaluation for that case?  Comment only?19:33
replaceafillwe can have an UNSCORED evaluation19:34
th1aBascially the comment would be on the visible score.19:34
replaceafilllooking at the code19:34
th1aScore first, comment second.19:34
replaceafilli think this should be done at the Evaluation object level19:34
replaceafillcan i think about it and we come back to it later19:36
replaceafilli'd like to see what's possible with the object being in a list19:36
replaceafill(for the history)19:36
replaceafilli'm brain-f***ed with the UI part19:36
replaceafillbut i kind of see the annotation part19:37
th1aIt seems like the choices are right click or double click to get a dialog.19:37
replaceafilli didn't see your score first, comment second19:37
replaceafillthat makes sense19:38
replaceafillenter 95, click Save19:38
replaceafillscore is saved and put in history19:38
replaceafillright click on readonly 9519:38
th1aI think that would do.19:38
replaceafilladd comment19:38
replaceafillor edit comment if it exists19:38
replaceafillgot it19:39
replaceafilli think there's a bug for this...19:39
replaceafilli'll look for it later19:39
th1aI guess my question would be whether it is sane at all to think of it as being a general part of evaluations plumbing.19:40
replaceafilloh, look at Justas comment19:40
replaceafillabout using notes for this19:41
replaceafillwell, in any case19:41
replaceafillthankfully we share evaluations between the gradebooks19:41
replaceafillcando, journal19:41
th1aYeah, we used to have notes on everything!19:41
th1aVery early.19:41
replaceafillthey're all go to the persons IEvaluations annotation19:41
replaceafilli remember on my first tasks in 2009 was helping someone with their notes evolution!19:42
replaceafillwhen notes were not even there yet19:42
replaceafilli mean19:42
replaceafillWe're looking at adding comments about grades, etc. this year.19:43
replaceafillFran said she'll get feedback for the behaviour stories, right?19:44
replaceafillnew demographics should be stratightforward once we know what to add19:44
replaceafilland how many fields, etc19:45
replaceafillalso expecting feeback from her team?19:45
th1aAll right.  I wired you your pay yesterday.19:47
replaceafillah yes19:47
th1aI've got to send a revised invoice to Denise, but she's got the purchase order cleared, so we should get paid by them soon.19:48
replaceafillah cool19:48
replaceafilli guess Denise will come up with feedback about the filters soon19:49
th1aHopefully not out of left field.19:49
th1aI need to go get my dashboard book out of the attic.19:50
replaceafilloh, i sent Fran a question about the fees issue19:50
* replaceafill done19:50
th1aThanks replaceafill.19:51
replaceafillthanks th1a19:51
th1aAfter digging around the attic, the dashboard book was on my shelf the whole time.20:31
*** khildin has quit IRC20:57
*** khildin has joined #schooltool22:18
th1aayt replaceafill?22:38
replaceafillth1a, yes22:47
th1aI think it should be fine to just do the dashboard as web pages.22:48
th1aI was thrown off a bit on my first scan through.22:48
th1aLike, the assessment is essentially the same thing twice.22:48
th1aI have some ideas for improving the assessment part though.22:49
th1aFran's design resembles several of the examples of bad dashboard design in my book.  ;-)22:50
replaceafillwhat about the print option?22:50
th1aI think that should be ok.22:52
replaceafilltemperature field in the check_in model for teachers in the mobile app23:26
th1aYeah, it is.23:27
replaceafilldiscrete (0.1) range goes from 35.5 to 40.023:27
th1aThat's what it is.23:28
*** khildin has quit IRC23:28
th1aI'd be interested in using something like this for the assessment section, one graph per subject with the points being sections.
replaceafilli think we should stick to simple bars at the beginning23:32
replaceafillunless we find the right type of library23:32
replaceafillto output those23:32
replaceafilli just remember how time consuming the cando charts were23:33
replaceafill(similar to that one)23:33
th1aWell, bars won't do it.23:33
replaceafillthis is where she wants colored tables, right?23:34
replaceafillthe assessment part23:34
th1aI'd just like this dashboard to actually be good.23:39
replaceafillmaybe you could mock a prototype :)23:42
replaceafilland i just put the right values in place23:42
th1aI want to ask her some questions.23:42
th1aIn particular, the rows could be courses or streams.23:43
th1aLooking at her fake data I would say they should be courses (subjects).23:43
th1aBut that may just be the way her fake data is laid out.23:43
th1aSomething like this might be more useful for the Enrolment section:
th1aMaybe something like this:
replaceafilldo we know what kind of integration Fran is talking about with the mobile app?23:48
replaceafillwho's sending data where?23:49
th1aMostly pulling to SchoolTool.23:49
th1aWell, sending enrollment, pulling data.23:49

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!