IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2014-02-12

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replaceafillworking with layouts/templates is really really painful...19:13
th1ahi replaceafill.22:00
replaceafillhey th1a22:00
th1aSo, the visit to London went pretty well.22:02
replaceafillah glad to hear22:02
th1aNo direct business coming from it though.22:03
th1aAt this point.22:03
th1aWe met the people who do this thing:
replaceafillseems similar to what critical links does, right?22:04
th1aWhich is more impressive in their demo than in looking at the site.22:05
th1aBasically, there very sharp about how they set up their school servers, and they are very diligent about writing bash scripts for everything (including CGI).22:05
th1aIt is, literally, 100% bash.22:06
th1aI think.22:06
th1aBut it sets up an English school network quite tidily.22:06
th1aIn particular it lets you set up a multi-server setup easily.22:07
th1aBackups, etc.22:07
th1aKerberos single sign on.22:07
th1aThey switched to Samba4 this year too, which is also impressive.22:08
th1aSo anyhow, they're going to add SchoolTool probably.22:08
th1aAnd also probably some of the people we were meeting with are going to try selling it.22:08
th1aThey're just the admins in a Dover primary school.22:09
th1aBut we looked at it with a guy who does Windows services, including for schools, and he was blown away.22:09
th1aPound signs were in his eyes...22:10
th1aIt is amazing how a little modern boilerplate CSS can make some bash scripts look polished.  ;-)22:10
th1aThey have a nice mobile version of the web interface too.22:10
th1aThe English market in general is weird.22:12
th1aThere has always been a more or less monopoly SIS player -- SIMS, and they've got that massive spec that certainly doesn't encourage new players, and overall things are probably MORE microsoft dominated than the US.22:12
th1aotoh, the way English schools are being reorganized, a lot more costs are being shifted into school budgets rather than county budgets, particularly for IT, so there is an opportunity, and the Linux tools have improved faster than Windows.22:14
th1aSo it is interesting.22:14
th1aOne specific thing is we'll probably end up helping them get kerberos working.22:15
th1aFor SchoolTool single sign on.  Either that or they can get Apache to do that already, if we know how to have Apache handle SchoolTool login.22:15
replaceafillapache as in basic http?22:16
replaceafilli mean, basic access?22:16
th1aNo... I mean, Apache does the auth via kerberos, and then there is some kind of remote authentication that you can do with Apache.22:16
replaceafillah, got it22:16
th1aKerberos -> Apache -> SchoolTool.22:17
th1aSo whichever is easier.22:17
replaceafillsounds like an interesting job :)22:17
th1aThey obviously understand Apache better than SchoolTool, and the Apache side is probably not too complicated.22:17
th1aAlso we'll have to brush off our recommendations for adding users remotely, etc.22:17
th1aThat is, so that when they add a user to the system, the user is added to SchoolTool.22:18
th1aI'll try to line up a chat.22:20
th1aThat's pretty much my report.22:20
replaceafillover here i've been *fighting* the gradebook layouts22:21
replaceafillit seems like they were never tested in a multi year environment22:21
replaceafilland i need that for the transcript22:21
replaceafillso after so debugging i finally nailed it:22:22
replaceafillcolumns = []22:22
replaceafilloutline_activities = []22:22
replaceafilllists used as class attributes...22:22
replaceafillso basically, each layout shares all the columns/activities22:22
replaceafillgiving you keyerrors everywhere in the view22:23
replaceafilli wonder why we didn't use regular containers for all this logic22:23
replaceafillthere's some integer index sequence22:23
replaceafillthat could have been solved with orderedcontainers imho22:23
replaceafillmaking the code lots lots lots!!!! simpler22:24
replaceafilli think we need evolution for fixing it22:24
th1aOK, gotta do what you gotta do.22:24
th1aI have a feeling that it was a bit of a rush when first implemented.22:25
replaceafilldon't you think it's worth implementing it right/simpler?22:25
replaceafilli know we don't have much time22:26
th1aIt certainly could be.22:26
th1aIt is really your call, Mr. Lead Developer.22:26
replaceafilli mean, if we're going to keep adding reports22:26
replaceafillok, ah22:27
replaceafilland i have a meeting tomorrow too22:27
replaceafillwith the Academia Britanica folks22:27
replaceafilli have to prepare a demo for them22:27
replaceafilli wanted to ask you, i think it's in an email somewhere...22:28
th1aI saw.22:28
replaceafillwhat's included in the $1200?22:28
replaceafilli was thinking that if they ask "money" i will refer them to you22:28
replaceafillis that ok?22:28
th1aJust a sec, let me see what I said in the mail.22:29
th1aAt this point I'm thinking hosting and service is $1,200.22:29
th1aDoes that seem reasonable to you?22:30
th1aThat's what we came up with for Telly.22:30
th1aI would, however, consider this to be a bit of an investment case for us, because a real, respected school in the El Salvador market could be a big deal.22:31
th1aSo it is not so much just a matter of trying to make a few bucks off one school.22:31
replaceafillhow should i answer the "but you don't have this we need" questions?22:32
replaceafill$50/hour for custom development?22:32
replaceafilli mean, should i even offer that?22:33
th1aBasically, it is like what I was saying in England yesterday.22:34
th1aIf they'll commit to it and put in some of the cost, we can supplement/backstop the rest.22:34
replaceafillah ok22:34
th1aWe'd have to get an idea of the scope.22:34
replaceafillthat's a good line ;)22:34
th1aIf the want, say, a finance module, we're not going to do that, probably.22:35
th1aBut if they just need some El Salvador customizations, we'd like to have those to break into the rest of the market anyhow.22:35
replaceafillgot it22:37
th1aI take it you agree that this would be very useful for growing the business in El Salvador.22:37
replaceafillwe'll see how it goes22:37
replaceafilloh definitely22:37
replaceafilli'm 100% on trying private schools22:38
th1aOK, so if it seems possible, we're not going to walk away from this for a small amount of money.22:38
th1aAlso, just try to find out about what other options they're using/considering.22:38
replaceafillyes, i have that question in my notes :)22:39
replaceafillok, that's it from me22:40
th1aOK.  So you're working through underlying bugs getting in your way with the transcript.22:40
th1aSo, the thing about talking to the school is you should be able to tell fairly quickly if their expectations are just *way* outside what SchoolTool can do now.22:41
th1aAnd in that case, I really don't try to push it.22:41
th1aBecause you can see it will just waste a lot of our time.22:42
th1aBut if it is plausible, we really want to go for this.22:42
th1aOK.  I guess that's it then.22:43
replaceafillthanks th1a22:43
replaceafilli'll go get a haircut to look somewhat ok for the meeting ;)22:43
th1aI'm going to be traveling Friday.  Jennifer's in-laws are here and want to see some of Scotland.22:43
th1aGood luck!22:44
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.22:44
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