IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2013-08-14

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th1ahi yvl16:09
th1a*tap* *tap*16:13
th1aThis thing on?16:13
menesisth1a: hi!16:15
menesisyes we can see you :)16:15
th1aI'm having a little trouble bootstrapping myself onto the Campus VPN.16:16
th1aHaving general bootstrapping problems... I think the IT info desk is inside the library, which wants you to have an ID to get in, but I need to get online to get an ID, etc.16:16
th1aI'm not sure if I mentioned we're living on campus.16:16
menesisdoes IRC work? or you had to resort to a web client?16:17
th1aI'm just on a Windows box in the 24 hour study center.16:17
th1aThat's the best I can do so far.16:17
th1aBut I must say, in 2013 a javascript IRC client is pretty much indistinguishable from a native one, although I don't know if I'll get it to beep at me.16:18
menesisso you couldn't connect your computer to the internet yet16:21
th1aI just found a forum posting with the VPN settings for Linux, so I'm going to sit here and try that later.16:22
th1aI didn't really have time or brain cells to deal with it yesterday at length.16:22
th1aThe one thing I did learn is that if you're going overseas for a year, paying for the somewhat pricey international data plan in the first month probably is worth it.16:23
th1aFor the first month, at least.16:23
th1aIt is kind of hilarious how useful modern devices become without an internet connection.16:24
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replaceafillgood mor.... afternoon! :)16:26
th1aHi replaceafill.16:26
th1a2:30 here.16:26
replaceafillhow was the trip th1a?16:26
th1aI got up at noon.16:27
th1aVery smooth, really.16:27
th1aI'm just happy I got back to sleep after being up from 2:00 to 4:00 AM.16:27
th1aThe funny thing is that Boston > Glasgow via Iceland is just a 4.5 and 2 hour flight.  It is too short to sleep.16:28
th1aIt'd make more sense to fly to Iceland during the day, hang out for the evening, and do the rest the next morning.16:29
th1aCan I have a few minutes to check my mail guys?16:30
th1aHave to finalize our house rental...16:34
th1aSorry about that.16:37
th1areplaceafill: Did you email Glenda about the year-end report?16:37
replaceafillth1a, yes16:38
th1aIs is just under the year?16:38
replaceafillno, under School16:38
replaceafillshe wasn't using the trunk ppa16:38
th1aOK, I figured.16:38
replaceafilli checked her instance16:38
th1aIt just annoyed me that I couldn't straighten that out before I left.16:38
th1aSo she's testing on trunk PPA now?16:39
replaceafillthat's what i asked them last niht16:39
th1aOK, thanks for sorting this out.16:40
replaceafilli just have one issue left16:41
th1aOne very strange thing right now is that there is some kind of international summer session going on, which is literally 100% asian.16:41
th1aI've come to Scotland to be surrounded by Asians.16:41
th1aOK, go ahead replaceafill.16:42
th1aSorry to interrupt.  ;-)16:42
replaceafillso, it's about layers16:42
replaceafilli used the same layer structure for the 2013 XLS16:42
replaceafillthat makes the search tables to show duplicated layers16:43
replaceafillbecause the function sees two documents16:43
replaceafillwhich is correct16:43
replaceafillbut confusing imho for the user16:43
th1aWhen you are searching what you see what?16:44
replaceafilllet me get a screenshot16:44
replaceafilli tried to set up a testing instance16:45
replaceafillbut the process takes too much memory16:45
replaceafillgets killed in the vps :(16:45
th1aThe importer?16:46
replaceafillwhen you try to deprecate the 2012 skills16:46
replaceafilla minute please, installing gimp :)16:48
th1aI might fall asleep.  It is stuffy in this room.16:48
replaceafillthat's Search in the Skills page16:50
replaceafillbut it's the same when you're adding a skill to a project for example16:50
replaceafillit should be the same when you add a skill to a course (but that's still a pending bug)16:50
replaceafillso you see Skill, Skill in the layers column16:51
replaceafillbecause the 2012 and 2013 documents use the same layers16:51
th1aThat image is not working for me on this computer for some reason.16:52
replaceafilli can mail it16:52
th1aI guess.16:52
th1aSometimes screenshots make things easier...16:53
th1aSo... are you just not filtering retired skills?16:55
replaceafillyes, retired skills are filtered16:55
replaceafillthis are not retired16:55
replaceafilli'm saying that the logic for the layers column shows every document the skill is related to16:56
th1aSo... that's just a bug?16:56
replaceafilland since both documents use the same layer structure, the column finds both16:56
th1aIt is just kind of oddly coded?16:56
replaceafillwell, since it's the first time we check multiple documents...16:57
replaceafilli mean, we just hadn't seen it16:57
th1aIt just seems like a bug to me.16:57
replaceafillwhat should the column do?16:58
th1aI don't know why it is interested in Documents at all.16:58
th1aUnless we also wanted to filter by Document.16:58
th1aWhich I don't even think we can do.16:58
th1aI think the fact that this cares about documents at all is a bug.16:58
replaceafillit's this notion of hierarchy documents have16:59
th1aThat doesn't seem relevant to me.16:59
th1aWhat things have these keywords and these layers.  That's it.16:59
replaceafilli'll check that part more carefully17:00
th1aThis may have been conceived of as a search within the document at some point.17:00
replaceafilli just saw that it was happening there and pdb a little17:00
replaceafilli'll try to "fix" it17:00
th1aOK... don't assume there is a good reason at all to think about what document something is associated with.17:00
replaceafilli tried to duplicate the layers17:01
replaceafillto bypass this17:01
replaceafilland that produced the right layers column17:01
replaceafillbut duplicated checkboxes :(17:01
replaceafillbut i guess the first option is the right one17:01
replaceafilland we just have to fix the column17:02
th1aI think there is just some tortured logic going on inside.17:02
replaceafillsecond question17:02
replaceafill(sorry for taking so much time...)17:02
th1aI'm going to fall asleep.17:02
replaceafillare we going to care about multi year equivalences th1a?17:02
replaceafilli'm not even sure if we should discuss this...17:03
th1aYes, unfortunately.17:03
th1aI don't really want to bring it up with Glenda until she asks about it.17:03
th1aBut it would be good to have the answer.17:03
th1aI mean, it should be pretty straightforward aside from requiring a giant input, right?17:04
th1aOr maybe we can write another magical matching script.17:04
replaceafillthe input part is what makes it complicated imho17:04
replaceafilli was thinking the same :)17:04
th1aYou're matching ID's?17:04
replaceafilli mean, we're going to need to match somehow17:04
replaceafillid's are different17:04
replaceafillbecause include the year17:04
th1aThere's a pattern though, right?17:05
th1aLet's use regex!17:05
replaceafilland an external id attribute17:05
replaceafillwhich i'm not sure if it's the same17:05
th1aOK, don't get too obsessed.  We'll figure it out, but not right now.17:06
replaceafilli think i should check both year XLS and give it some though17:06
replaceafilli still have some pending issues:17:06
replaceafillchanged the visible option in course skills17:07
replaceafillto use deprecated17:07
replaceafillthe gradebook ignores retired skills17:07
replaceafillbut not retired skillsets17:07
replaceafillhere we have some of a clash i guess17:07
replaceafillsince worksheets have this hidden attribute17:07
replaceafillbut we don't have UI to customize that17:08
replaceafillso it's not a priority i guess17:08
replaceafillbut i'll see what i can do17:08
th1aI'm not sure what you mean.  What is happening from the user's perspective?17:08
replaceafillthey see the skillsets17:08
replaceafillbut they're all empty17:08
replaceafilli mean in the gradebook17:08
th1aThat seems like a priority.17:09
th1aWhy is that happening?17:09
replaceafillbecause the gradebook just checks if the worksheet is hidden17:09
replaceafillnot "retired"17:09
replaceafillin this case worksheet = skillset17:10
replaceafillso cando will need to check for both i guess17:10
replaceafilltests are probably broken17:11
replaceafillthat's something i like to fix th1a17:11
replaceafillah and found a css color issue in /schoolyears/activate.html17:12
th1aYes, you can clean these things up.17:12
replaceafilland yesterday while i was waiting for an import to finish, i checked:
th1aWhy are retired skillsets assigned at all?17:13
th1aThere is also a question from Chile in Spanish.17:13
replaceafillth1a, this happened after you retire them17:13
replaceafillah damn, i forgot to reply to that17:14
replaceafillhe's asking if we could include the chilean score system in ST17:14
th1aIs it strange in some way?17:14
replaceafilli just need some "i have no idea" wording17:15
replaceafillit's the kind of questions i don't like ;)17:15
replaceafill"i don't think we can..."17:15
replaceafillbut i'll see what i CanDo!17:15
replaceafill(lame joke)17:15
replaceafillok i'm done17:16
th1aDoes he want it preset so he can distribute it with that score system?17:16
replaceafillso he doesn't have to set it up everytime i guess17:16
th1aIf he is serious about distributing SchoolTool in Chile we could make a package.17:16
replaceafilli can promise that? :)17:16
replaceafilli was going the "it's not generic enough to be included" route17:17
th1aYes... but ask him to explain what his plans are.17:17
replaceafillah ok17:17
replaceafilli will ask17:17
th1aYou also have to think of the marketing side, replaceafill.  ;-)17:17
* replaceafill needs a customer support book ;)17:17
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:18
th1aWe want to encourage people interested in multiple schools.17:19
th1aOK, yvl?17:20
yvlhi :)17:20
yvlI pushed security updates to trunks17:20
yvlthat fixes VA requirements except clerk/admin access to teacher reports17:21
yvlthen I got stuck on access to those reports17:21
th1aI can imagine.17:22
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yvlI'd like some input from you17:23
yvlso we can either discuss a bit now17:23
yvlor if you're sleepy, I can compose an email tomorrow morning17:23
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* yvl decided to work tomorrow17:23
yvland we're on a similar timezone now :)17:23
replaceafill(sorry, electricity failure)17:23
th1aGo ahead.17:23
yvlfirst, a minor thing17:24
yvlSchool tab action links17:24
yvlnow clerks and admins see only Customize / skills17:24
yvland they can't actually edit them, but they can search17:24
th1aSounds right.17:25
th1aI mean, notwithstanding the need for an overall reorganization of the page.17:25
yvlso there are other things they should have access to - maybe17:25
yvlImport XLS?17:25
yvlReport Card Layout?17:25
yvlSchool Gradebook Archive?17:26
yvlResource Attributes?17:26
yvland so on17:26
th1aBasically, we want to make the clerk relatively safe from someone mucking about.17:26
th1aAnd we're kind of assuming real power users are both site managers and clerks.17:27
th1aReport card layout is a tossup.17:27
th1aImport also.17:28
yvlwell, it would be nice to go through each of these links anyway17:28
th1aDiscuss them?17:28
yvlmore you tell me who should be able to do what :)17:28
th1aYou mean "go through" as "discuss" not "follow link"17:29
yvlsorry, /me is somewhat fuzzy for some reason17:29
th1aIf you have time yvl, perhaps we should let yvl go and then just hammer through it.17:30
th1aJust let menesis go.17:30
th1aI mean.17:30
th1aIt is fuzzy because I'm not sure how much the roles should overlap.17:30
* yvl too17:30
th1aAs long as the default manager is both roles, we shouldn't need to overlap much.17:30
yvlI don't think I can add much value to discussion though17:31
th1aThe weird thing about making import for site manager only is generally he doesn't actually do the individual tasks.17:31
th1aBut it just seems kind of... site manager-y in terms of complexity.17:31
th1aThat is, site manager generally wouldn't add sections, etc.17:32
th1aok menesis?17:32
menesisI have looked at older branches lying around17:33
menesislike old skin cleanup17:33
menesisfound an unmerged gradebook branch updating it for journal-scoresystems rewrite17:34
menesisnoticed that journal tab was broken by journal rewrite17:35
menesisfor student17:35
menesisfixed both the tab, and the view17:35
th1aAh.  Thanks.17:35
menesisalthough it is very basic..17:35
menesiswhile testing noticed the new autocomplete17:37
menesisit gets in the way a little...17:37
menesisreplaceafill: I expected TAB would move to the next cell17:38
menesis(to the right)17:38
menesislike in spreadsheet17:38
replaceafillah right17:38
replaceafillth1a told me to behave same as return17:39
th1aYes, I asked replaceafill about that17:39
replaceafillimho the autocomplete should be a user preference maybe17:39
replaceafillsomething you can disable17:40
th1aOh, I meant just that it should be like return insofar as it "works," not actually have the same affect.  ;-)17:40
th1aBut yes, probably letting people disable it would be best.17:40
replaceafilli can make it move the right17:40
replaceafilla la Calc17:40
replaceafillkk will do17:40
menesisdon't think I have anything else done17:41
replaceafillmenesis, i love how packages are now built from trunk btw :)17:42
th1aYes.  Glad we can get changes to Glenda that way.17:42
menesisa few packages copied or versions bumped here and there that I missed for the release17:42
* menesis done17:42
th1aThanks menesis.17:43
th1aOK, I guess I just need to keep yvl a little late.17:43
menesisyes.. daily builds are very good for testing. should have done this last year.17:43
th1aIn the meantime, I'll catch you guys on Monday.  I should be pretty settled and ready to rip by then.  Also, the girls' school starts next Tuesday so I should be able to maintain focus for longer than I have in a while!17:44
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:44
replaceafillthanks everybody17:44
yvlthanks guys17:44
yvlso I realized, that it would be easiest if I made a small spreasheet of actions / permissions17:46
th1aYes, you could do that.17:46
yvldoing :)17:48
th1aOK.  I'm going to focus on getting my iPhone on the network then.17:49
menesisreplaceafill: I have pushed the TAB change17:50
replaceafillmenesis, ah thanks!17:50
replaceafillth1a, i know we have some more pressing stuff to deal with, but could i work on quiz a little next week?18:00
replaceafilljelkner starts his set up on aug 30th18:00
replaceafillfor next year18:00
th1areplaceafill: Yes.18:01
replaceafillkk thanks18:01
replaceafillok, french time!18:01
replaceafillsee you later guys18:01
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yvlth1a, shared initial doc18:03
yvlI guess I should also go through each link in sidebar18:03
yvland write down all items from there too18:03
yvlbut not today18:04
yvlso another thing18:05
yvlreport access18:06
yvlthing is, we have Gradebook, Skills and Journal18:06
yvlfor each sectoin18:06
yvlGradebook is single18:06
yvlCanDo expands to Projects and Skill Sets18:07
yvlJournal expands to Attendance, Homeroom and Scores18:07
yvleach of these 6 items is divided into "worksheets"18:07
yvland for each student, we have some links18:08
yvlwe have18:08
yvlGradebook / Worksheet / Student: Score History18:09
yvlGradebook / Worksheet / Student: Report18:09
yvlCanDo / Skill Sets / Skill Set / Student: Score History18:09
yvlCanDo / Skill Sets / Skill Set / Student: Report (web page, leads to competency sertificate pdf's and so on)18:10
yvlCanDo / Projects / Project / Student: Score History18:10
yvlCanDo / Projects / Project / Student: Report18:10
yvland for Journal18:11
yvlJournal / X: History18:11
yvlwhere X - attendance / homeroom / scores18:11
th1aWhat's  your feeling about the whole thing?18:11
yvldropdowns?  tables?18:12
yvlmaybe add something18:12
yvlin section view18:12
yvlif you can't edit section18:12
yvli.e. if you can't get to editable gradebooks18:12
yvlor frankly18:12
yvlit would be best to just write read-only versions of all gradebooks18:13
th1aThat may be the right answer.18:13
th1aClerks may just need a search box as their landing page under those tabs.18:14
th1aAnd read only views that have report links.18:14
th1aDoes that make sense?18:14
th1a(it may not)18:14
yvlthere are two roads to take18:15
yvlone is write read-only versions of gradebooks18:15
yvlclerks would have to go to section, go to it's gradebook, click on student, click report - to get the report18:16
yvlis to write some search somewhere18:16
yvlbut I've no idea how to write one18:16
th1aWell, say we have read-only section gradebooks.18:17
th1aClerk clicks on Gradebook.  The only problem is we don't know which gradebook they want to see, right?18:17
yvlthe problem is that18:18
yvlto switch to another student18:18
yvlclerk first has to locate proper section of that student18:18
yvlprobably search student, expand his sections, click on some section, click on it's CanDo / Gradebook / Journal link in sidebar18:19
yvlor he can search sections directly18:19
yvland when he's in the right gradebook,18:20
yvlclick on worksheet18:20
yvlclick on student's name18:20
yvlclick on report18:20
yvlclick on pdf in sidebar18:20
yvljust realised something :)18:21
yvlread-only gradebooks are easiest way to implement access to those reports18:21
yvlbut if we want search...18:21
yvlbasically, we should write separate search views for each report18:22
yvlnow Report Overview (the one that lists all reports) takes us to very root places18:22
yvlall student reports takes to schooltool/people18:22
yvlso... proper implementation would be18:23
yvlsay, you click on certificate of competency18:23
yvlyou get dropdowns of year,18:23
yvland search boxes for skill set and student18:24
yvlok, that would be a considerable amount of work18:24
yvlok, it's getting late18:25
yvlany ideas? :)18:25
th1aWell, there is a reason this hasn't happened already.18:26
th1aAnd it is kind of just a matter of "Well, what SHOULD a clerk see when he clicks this tab."18:26
th1aIn addition to generally trying to fix report selection entirely.18:27
th1aSo maybe we should limit the task to something reasonably useful and not confusing to sit under the tab.18:27
yvlthat would be good18:28
th1aLike, search for which read-only gradebook you want to look at and thus ultimately run reports on.18:28
yvland that is the thing I'm stuck at ;)18:28
yvlwell, you can search for a section now18:29
th1aYeah, it isn't rocket science.18:29
yvlso... we should just write read-only versions of gradebooks then18:30
yvlthis will also take some dev, btw18:30
yvlthey're kind of written with editable-only attitude18:30
th1aIt seems kind of inevitable.18:31
th1aWell, hopefully it will be reusable across the gradebook views relatively easily.18:32
yvlI wouldn't put too much hopes on that18:33
th1aOK.  I'm fried.18:33
th1aI'll answer your permission questions later.18:33
yvlI'll work on read-only gradebooks then18:34
th1aThanks yvl.18:34
yvlthanks th1a18:34
th1aI'm out.18:34
yvlgood luck settling in18:34
yvland see you soon :)18:34
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