IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2013-08-12

*** yvl has joined #schooltool08:47
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replaceafillyvl, ping09:08
yvlhey replaceafill09:08
replaceafillhey yvl good morning :)09:08
yvlgood evening :)09:08
replaceafillyou have like 10 mins?09:08
replaceafilli guess you know about VA latest problem09:08
replaceafillabout importing skills09:08
replaceafillthey have some changes in the 2013 versions09:09
replaceafilland we need a way to "hide" stuff09:09
replaceafillwe already had a retired attribute for skills09:10
replaceafilland Tom suggested we should also add it for skillsets09:10
replaceafillso i added it, and changed the importer to look for it in the SkillSets sheet09:10
replaceafillchanged the batch assignment view to ignore nodes with retired skillsets09:11
replaceafillbut i hit a problem with the project search09:11
replaceafilli mean, when you add a skill to a project09:11
replaceafillbecause it uses the catalogs09:11
replaceafilland i don't know how to do it without loading everything up09:12
replaceafillfirst of all09:12
replaceafillwhat do you think it's the appropriate solution for this?09:12
replaceafilli mean, for the whole issue09:12
yvlthe most obvious two approaches would be09:13
yvl1) only catalog non-retired skillsets09:13
yvlthis would work everywhere by magic, but you'd need extra catalog if you ever wanted to query old skills09:13
yvl2) add 'retired' attribute to skillset catalog09:14
yvland in the views, use intersection of all not-retired sets and skills you searched for09:14
yvlindexes have this useful values_to_documents IIRC09:15
yvlso you'd just need to pick all 'retired' values_to_documents of False09:15
yvlI'd prefer 2 over 109:16
replaceafillgreat! because 2) is what i started :D09:16
yvlbut if you want to do 1, I'd add extra catalog called active skillsets, and replace the old one with it where needed09:16
replaceafillbut i didn't know where to put the check09:16
replaceafilli thought it was in the table filter09:17
replaceafillbut then i didn't know how to actually filter the skillsets by "retired"09:17
yvlcatalog['retired'].values_to_documents[False] should give you intids of all active skillsets09:19
replaceafilli guess is around here:09:19
replaceafillor here specifically:09:19
replaceafillbut then i get a question, what about nodes? shouldn't they also be filtered?09:20
replaceafilla course node for instance09:20
replaceafillwhich all skillsets have been retired09:21
replaceafillsame with skills, which are contained in a retired skillset09:21
yvlmaybe we should add a subscriber that retires all skills of the skillset when it's retired09:24
yvlbut yes :)09:25
yvlvalid questions09:25
yvlprobably yes, we should filter them also09:25
yvlmaybe even add a checkbox "[ ] show retired entries" near the search field09:25
yvlI guess it's up to Tom09:25
replaceafilli'll add the subscriber09:27
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pgulleyreplaceafill, I've got the fitler pushed16:34
pgulleyto lp:~nano3-14/schooltool.quiz/quiz.ui16:34
replaceafillpgulley, ah ok, i'll check it16:35
replaceafillpgulley, don't we already have a taken function?16:37
pgulleyah, yes.16:38
pgulleyjust fixed it. silly oversight on my part16:41
replaceafillpgulley, isn't the course dropdown supposed to show you "courses"?16:41
replaceafillthis is showing sections, right?16:41
pgulleyyes and yes.16:42
pgulleythis was something I didn't quite understand- in what cases will those be different?16:42
replaceafillin a multiterm year16:43
replaceafillyou don't use the .current_term filter in courses if you show term checkboxes16:44
replaceafillalthough i don't think that current_term is actually being used...16:44
pgulleyyou're right, I'll fix the sections/courses16:47
pgulleyand fix other redundancies16:47
pgulleywill a section ever have more than one course?16:52
replaceafillin theory yes16:52
replaceafillbut we currently only associate one16:52
pgulleyokay. so this should work with that. I can do.16:54
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hoffmanhi replaceafill, menesis, yvl.16:58
hoffmanHow was your vacation menesis?16:58
yvlgood morning Tom16:58
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:58
menesisvery good16:59
hoffmanOK, I see you have a party.16:59
*** hoffman is now known as th1a16:59
menesisgood weather all week16:59
menesisexcept hit a storm on our way home16:59
th1aAnything quick to report yvl?  I mostly have to talk to replaceafill today.16:59
yvlrevived School tab17:00
th1aWe have to calm down Dave and Glenda.17:00
yvlmostly done with permissions17:00
yvlhad to resort to view permissions and they are a bit iffy17:00
yvlschool tab now visible to admins and clerks, but only part of it is viewable17:00
yvland things are not editable there mostly17:00
yvlwhile allowing term reports, noticed that viewlet proxy machinery allows too many report links to pass through17:01
yvlfixing that now17:01
* yvl done17:01
yvlsome reports they want are per-student per-gradebook17:02
th1aOK. By "part of it is viewable" do you mean some things are omitted but the view overall works?17:02
yvlso instead of gradebook I'll have to display a table with links17:02
yvllinks will be same as student dropdown17:02
yvlstudent_name _reports_ _score_history_17:03
th1aThat's so the admin or clerk can navigate to an individual student report?17:03
* yvl done now.17:03
th1aI'm not exactly sure when we'll meet again -- I don't know if getting on campus wifi is going to be a headache.17:03
yvlI can keep myself busy17:04
th1aI'll keep you posted and then hopefully will have a whole walkthrough wed/thurs/fri?17:04
yvlThu is bank holiday here17:04
yvl(almost forgot...)17:04
yvlso Wed or Fri17:05
th1aHm... I'm arriving in Glasgow Tuesday morning so I should be able to at least get to a cafe Wednesday AFTERNOON.17:05
yvlalso, I'd like to take a vacation first two weeks of Sep17:05
th1aBecause the meeting is in the AFTERNOON.17:05
yvlYES :)))17:06
th1ayvl:  OK, that should be fine.17:06
yvlsee you soon then17:06
th1aI'll try to do Wednesday.17:06
th1aIf I can't get on the internet at all... I won't send you an email.  ;-)17:06
replaceafillwe can meet in the morning your time th1a17:06
replaceafilli can stay up late or get up really early :)17:06
replaceafilli mean, just for the meetings17:06
th1aI don't mind meeting in the afternoon.17:07
th1aLet's keep it the same time for the moment.17:07
th1aI don't think I have anything in particular for menesis.17:07
th1aWe'll need to have what replaceafill is working on in the daily trunk releases, but I think the whole idea is that menesis doesn't need to do anything in particular for that.17:08
menesisyes, trunk ppa is updated automatically17:09
th1aOK, menesis and yvl are excused.  Happy birthday POV!17:09
menesisfrom trunk branches17:09
yvlthanks th1a17:09
menesisI have made releases of everything before vacation17:09
yvlhave a great trip!!!17:09
th1aYes, thanks menesis.17:10
replaceafilli have a question for yvl17:10
yvlstill here :)17:10
replaceafillyvl, how do you check if an specific attribute has changed in a susbscriber adapter17:11
replaceafilli mean, there's already a subscriber to check for changes in the global skillsets17:11
replaceafilli'd like to add a check against retired being changed from false to true17:12
replaceafilland react accordingly17:12
yvlI think it would be ok to just check for true17:12
yvlif retired, make sure skills are also retired17:12
replaceafillah ok17:12
th1aSorry, I was on the phone.17:21
th1aOK replaceafill, where are we from your point of view?17:22
replaceafillwe need to make a few decisions17:22
replaceafillbut i'll tell you what we currently have17:23
replaceafill1. changes are done, it receives a suffix with the year17:23
replaceafillwhich sets the id and title for the document17:23
replaceafillso they will be able to navigate better17:23
replaceafill(separated docs)17:23
replaceafill2. i also added the retired attribute for skillsets17:24
replaceafillupdated the importer/exporter17:24
replaceafill3. batch skill assign works for courses17:24
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replaceafillit now filters based on retired skillsets17:25
replaceafillhere's the first decision we have to make17:25
replaceafillthat view uses nodes for the matching17:25
replaceafillnodes have no notion of retirement17:25
replaceafillthey only have a relationship to skillsets17:25
replaceafillbut i suppose they should not be included in searches17:26
th1aI think they need a retirement attribute.17:26
replaceafillnodes too?17:26
th1aI mean, unless that is more of a can of worms than I realize.17:27
replaceafillactually it'd make it easier to code, i think17:28
replaceafillif you just check the node's attribute17:28
replaceafillinstead of searching for each skillset related17:28
th1aJust make it all explicit.17:28
replaceafilllet me check that sheet17:28
replaceafillsince we're adding retired everywhere, maybe we should retire documents :D17:29
replaceafill(lame joke)17:29
replaceafilli see, we can add the retired column to nodes17:30
replaceafilli'll do that17:30
replaceafillyvl suggested adding a subscriber17:30
replaceafillwhen you retire a skillset, all its skills get automatically retired too17:30
replaceafilli guess we'll need the same for nodes?17:30
replaceafillbut it's trickier in this case imho17:31
replaceafillnodes have relationships to skillsets17:31
th1aNo, just leave it explicit.17:31
replaceafillin the UI retired attributes should only be set during edit, right?17:32
th1aBeing able to retire skills through the skillsets does mean our retirement spreadsheet can be smaller.17:32
replaceafilli mean, not at creation time17:32
th1aI don't see the use case for creating a retired skill.17:32
replaceafillcool, me neither17:33
replaceafillok, visible vs retired17:33
th1aNot a big deal either way.17:33
replaceafillright now17:33
replaceafillwe have this view for course skills17:33
replaceafillSet Required/Visible17:33
replaceafillbasically, it allows you to change the retired attribute for course skills17:33
replaceafillbut we call the column Visible17:33
replaceafillshould we use that same wording17:34
replaceafilli mean, everywhere?17:34
th1aIs it literally retiring them?17:34
replaceafillwell, it just sets the attribute to true17:34
th1aOK, I guess we should be consistent.17:35
replaceafilland makes the gradebook to ignore them17:35
replaceafillis it ok if the spreadsheet says Visible?17:35
th1aWhich spreadsheet?17:36
replaceafillSkillSets, Skills and now Nodes too17:36
replaceafillthey all have the Retired column17:36
replaceafillshould we call the column "Visible"?17:37
th1aOh, wait.17:37
th1aSo "retired" is in the code but "visible" is in the UI, and that's consistent right now?17:37
replaceafillwell, the only part we've used it in yes17:38
replaceafillcourse skills17:38
replaceafillretired in the code, visible wording in the UI17:38
replaceafillthe spreadsheets have the column called Retired17:38
replaceafillyvl suggested adding an option to search to show you retired stuff17:38
th1aWe really should use "Deprecated" in the UI.  That's the best term.17:39
th1aOf course, that has the opposite meaning of "visible" in terms of logic.17:40
th1aHow does that even work now?17:41
th1aVisible and Retired are already opposites.17:41
replaceafillyou go to any course, Skills, Set Required/Visible, two checkboxes for each skill17:41
replaceafillwhat you actually set is required and retired17:42
replaceafillthere's no "visible" or something like that17:42
replaceafillin the gradebook code, if the skill is retired we just skip it17:42
th1aSo unchecking visible causes the skill to be marked retired?17:42
th1aSo you should be able to undo that flip and just make it "Deprecated"17:43
replaceafillnot sure i get that last part17:44
th1aWhatever in the code is switching a checked visible box into an unchecked retired attribute.17:45
th1aI'm probably to blame for this btw.17:45
replaceafillwe all are th1a :)17:46
th1aI need replaceafill to keep track of these consistency issues.17:46
th1aOK, so, make sense?17:47
replaceafillno, sorry17:48
replaceafilli don't understand how we're going to add Deprecated instead of Visible17:48
th1aVisible is not actually stored in the data model.  Retired is, right?17:49
th1aSo that view is translating anyhow, right?17:49
th1aFalse retired = true visible.17:49
th1aSo just make it do false retired = false deprecated.17:49
th1aThat shouldn't be hard?17:50
replaceafillmy point is, in that context is *hiding*17:50
replaceafillin the course skills context17:50
th1aYeah, just let it act the same way.17:51
th1aThat should be fine right?17:51
th1aWhat else would happen when you deprecate a course skill?17:51
replaceafillright now, nothing else17:51
replaceafillok, i added it to my notes17:52
replaceafilllast: workflow17:52
replaceafillhow are they going to work with all of this?17:53
th1aSo use deprecated throughout the UI and the spreadsheets.17:53
replaceafillth1a, kk17:53
th1aIn what sense?17:53
replaceafilli guess they'll first need to export the existing skills?17:53
replaceafillchange deprecated columns17:53
th1aOH, right.17:53
replaceafilland reimport17:54
replaceafillunfortunately, this fails in one part, equivalences in the importer17:54
replaceafilli just found this issue17:54
replaceafillso i'm not sure what's causing it17:54
th1aVA CTE is going to provide the deprecation spreadsheet.17:55
replaceafilli thought so17:55
th1aBut this time you might be doing it for them.17:55
replaceafillbut what about ACC custom skillsets?17:55
replaceafilli found like 1517:55
replaceafillwhich are not in verso17:55
th1aThey shouldn't need to automatically deprecate them.17:59
th1aUnless they are as crazed as VA CTE.18:00
th1aIt is a highly abnormal use case.18:00
replaceafillok, so the workflow doesn't include export18:01
replaceafillwe create the spreasheet for them18:01
th1aCan you run the script against the verso database?18:01
th1aAhg.  I have to go for a bit.18:01
replaceafilli have things to do, np ;)18:01
th1ahi replaceafill.18:21
replaceafillhey th1a18:23
th1aSo can you run the script yourself against verso or only they can do it?18:23
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replaceafillsince friday, i've been trying to run it, but from here it always timouts18:24
replaceafilli tried running it in the vps18:24
replaceafill(since it has a better connection)18:24
replaceafillbut there it gets into a memory error :(18:24
replaceafilli remember aelkner mentioned the same in the past18:24
th1aDo you want to send a copy to Lee/Glenda and let them try it?18:25
th1a(mostly Lee)18:25
th1aOK, do that please.18:25
replaceafillbut don't know how to phrase the "don't do anything else after this" :D18:25
th1aYou want to get the results from them and to go through the rest of the process yourself.18:26
th1aThey've done their share of beta testing at this point.18:26
replaceafillah ok18:26
th1aJust tell them you can't complete the script because of your network timeouts.18:27
th1aAnd basically we should be able to get these fixes into the trunk PPA by?  Wednesday?18:27
replaceafilli'll shot for tomorrow, it was definitely more complicated than i expected :(18:28
th1aDon't worry about Glenda not wanting a deprecation step.18:28
replaceafillbut yes, wednesday is ok18:28
th1aIf they want to deprecate everything, it is another step.18:28
replaceafillright, i noticed she doesn't want extra steps18:28
th1aIf they want a simpler process they need a simpler process!18:28
th1aOK.  I'm leaving you in charge of this operation replaceafill.18:29
th1aJust let them know what is going on.18:29
th1aI'll shoot off a short email before I go.18:29
replaceafillhave a good/safe trip th1a18:30
th1aThanks replaceafill.18:30
th1aOK... gotta go!18:30
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:30
replaceafillsee you18:30
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pgulleyreplaceafill! sorry, I pushed those changes a while ago- you were in a meeting.21:56
replaceafillpgulley, looks good at first glance22:00
replaceafilla basic test would be nice ofc22:00
pgulleyokay, I'll write one tomorrow morning.22:10
* replaceafill goes to get lunch, bb in ~1h22:34
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