IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-10-24

*** replaceafill has quit IRC00:19
*** menesis has quit IRC14:35
*** menesis has joined #schooltool15:25
*** menesis has joined #schooltool15:26
*** amithkk has quit IRC15:38
*** amithkk has joined #schooltool15:59
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool16:20
th1ahi menesis, yvl, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
yvlgood morning16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aOK, let's start with replaceafill.16:31
replaceafilli fixed the cando gradebook to sort activities by label16:32
replaceafilli'm now fixing the score student view16:32
replaceafillwhere validation doesn't work16:33
*** khildin has joined #schooltool16:33
replaceafilli also investigated a 404 reported yesterday by jelkner16:33
replaceafillif the section doesn't have any skills associated, students get a 404 for their grades16:34
replaceafillthere is no mygrades view for projects either16:34
replaceafilli think there should be one, right?16:35
aelknerthat would be consistent16:35
khildinQ: is 2.3 also available for lucid?16:35
th1areplaceafill:  yes.16:35
th1akhildin:  We have a handy table:
replaceafillyesterday i helped dwelsh to set up joe youcha's server16:36
replaceafillfor the building to teach courses16:36
replaceafilli imported their skills too16:36
replaceafillthey're going to use projects a lot apparently16:37
replaceafillso i hope we get some good feedback16:37
khildinwell... I saw 1.6 was for lucid and I have 2.1 running... (in this table it shows 2.1 is developer version)16:37
khildinso I was a bit confused16:37
menesiskhildin: no, not for lucid.16:37
replaceafillyvl, i have a question about how to handle IEP16:37
replaceafillbasically IEP tells the system "this skills should be optional for this person"16:38
replaceafilleven if the skill is required16:38
replaceafilli was thinking of creating a relationship person <-> skill16:39
replaceafillwith the IEP skills16:39
replaceafilland i think this should be handle at the report level16:39
replaceafilli can't see it in the gradebook16:39
replaceafillbut that leaves the checking responsability on the developer16:40
replaceafilllike, every time you create a report you have to take IEP into account16:40
replaceafilli'm not sure if that's the right approach16:40
replaceafillwhat do you guys think?16:41
aelknerwe could use a method of some sort for iterating over skills16:42
replaceafilli think this should also take into account "equivalent" skills for IEP skills16:42
aelknerthat takes the student into account, as an argument, right?16:42
replaceafillaelkner, correct16:43
replaceafillwhen checking for required skills16:43
aelknerreplaceafill, are you saying you use the skill's equivalent attribute for IEP?16:44
yvlit's a good question where it is best to store the "customization"16:44
replaceafillaelkner, i think we should16:44
aelknerwhat was the original intention of that attribute?16:45
yvlI would store them on person's annotations, in a persistent dict(s) section_int_id <--> worksheet <--> customizations16:45
aelknerthat sounds like what replaceafill did in old cando which makes sense16:46
yvland customizations would simply True/False for skillset/skill16:46
yvlif memory serves me well, that's how we decided to implement it16:47
yvlbasically same way as old cando16:47
replaceafillright, it's the old way16:47
aelknerequivalent was intended for year over year skills matching, right yvl?16:47
yvlequivalent was intendet for equivalent skills16:47
replaceafillbut that leaves us with "check IEP at report time", right?16:47
yvlit can be used for year over year also16:47
yvlyes, replaceafill16:48
replaceafillaelkner, in my head you could have skill A equivalent to skill B in the same year16:48
replaceafilllike in different courses16:48
yvlagain, a helper that iterates section taking in mind IEPs would be great16:48
th1aI think we are going to need to be clear about different skills that are practically equivalent and copies of the same skill.16:48
th1aThey are two different things.16:48
yvl+1 for being clear16:49
replaceafillif we take section into account when storing the customization, maybe we don't need to handle equivalent skills?16:50
yvlbut I don't know definition for "copy"16:50
th1aIn practice we don't have any different but equivalent skills at this point.16:50
replaceafillsince it's like saying "this is IEP for this student IN THIS SECTION"16:50
replaceafillth1a, i was thinking about multi-term sections actually16:51
yvlthat would be easiest, replaceafill16:51
yvlyou can also customize by-course16:51
yvlthat is also not that hard16:51
yvlbut that excludes projects then16:51
replaceafillok, with this feedback i think i'll have something working to show for monday16:52
replaceafilli'll go this route16:52
replaceafillthanks guys16:52
* replaceafill done16:53
yvloh, and a small note on using relationships16:53
yvlscrap that16:53
yvlnot important16:53
* replaceafill was waiting for a "don't use them" :D16:53
yvlyes, this time :D16:54
replaceafilli won't :)16:54
th1aOK, so assuming we're going to wait for that fix, we'll probably do a CanDo bugfix in 1 week?16:54
replaceafillth1a, yes16:55
th1aOK, thanks replaceafill.16:56
aelknerok, so it looks like things are ok with glenda, and she is just waiting for the sorted gradebook labels16:57
aelkneri started working on the nodes tables, and i have a number of questions16:58
aelknerfirst of all, we have four situations where we search for nodes, and they are not well-defined as of yet16:58
aelknerwe have the Nodes Container view, which we are changing to show skillsets and skills16:59
aelknerwe have the view for adding child nodes to nodes which has a search of its own16:59
aelknerwe have the course skill assignment view which needs to search nodes as well16:59
*** khildin has quit IRC17:00
aelknerok, never mind the fourth case because the document views don't have node search17:00
replaceafillaelkner, i know of a forth one17:01
aelknerah, ok, thanks for mentioning that one17:01
th1aOK, so let's call those A, B, C, and D.17:01
th1aIn which ones are skillsets and skills relevant or applicable?17:01
th1aD, right?17:02
aelknerreplaceafill, i'm not familiar with the project case, can you explain what's needed there?17:03
replaceafillaelkner, basically, you first search for a course node17:03
replaceafillin theory it can be also a cluster17:03
replaceafillthen you drill down until you get to the skill you want17:04
aelknerright, so that's the same as the course skills assign case, right?17:04
replaceafillyes, but with an extra level17:04
replaceafillin course assign, you get until skillset17:04
replaceafillin projects you get until skill17:04
th1aDo you ultimately want to get to skillsets and skills?17:04
th1aIf so, why not search for them directly?17:04
th1abtw, looking at screens really helps with this kind of thing.17:05
aelkneri think in the course skills case, the user is looking for specific nodes first before selecting skillsets, skills17:05
th1aWell not necessarily.17:05
th1aYou might just know what you're looking for.17:06
aelknerreplaceafill, what do you think?17:07
th1aThe only reason not to be able to go straight to skillsets or skills is if it isn't relevant at all to the task.17:08
replaceafillfor projects i can see it yes17:08
th1aOtherwise it is like requiring the user to search for the folder name instead of the file name.17:08
replaceafillteacher could know exactly the title of the skill17:08
replaceafill"Recognize and identify polynomials."17:10
replaceafilli don't need to know that's under Pre-algebra skillset17:10
replaceafillbut i do want to assign something about polynomials17:10
replaceafillto my project17:10
aelknerso are we saying that this is a case for mixed nodes/skills search?17:11
th1aI guess so.17:12
aelknerreplaceafill, i did a search for NodesTable and found the SkillsetNodesTable you wrote17:13
aelkneri didn't find the same thing for projects17:13
replaceafilllet me check17:13
replaceafillaelkner, ProjectSkillSearchView17:14
replaceafillwhere ocntainer is the nodecontainer17:15
replaceafillbelow you have SkillSearchTable(NodesTable)17:15
aelkneri see, thanks17:16
aelknerok, here's the thing:17:16
aelknerfirst, we have a number of table classes that depend on the current NodesTable in model.py17:17
aelknerthat table does not mix skills in17:17
aelknerand it seems that only the case of the Search tab do we need to mix them in17:18
aelknerin course,py, SkillsetNodesTable does not derive from NodesTable, so it has its own logic17:18
aelknerso we need to reign in these various cases and decide what we want to do17:19
aelknerbut also, we have this issue:17:19
aelknerthe layers checkboxes are something that we list in various ways17:20
th1aWhat about the B and C cases you mentioned at the beginning?17:20
th1aDo you ever need to find skillsets or skills in those cases?17:20
aelkneri would say B, C and D are the same case17:20
aelknerin that no mixin of skills is needed17:20
aelknerreplaceafill, isn't that right, in case D, you have a multi-step view there17:21
aelkneryou even said:17:22
aelkner# XXX: use a step approach similar to timetable wizard!17:22
th1aDidn't we decide D was a mixed case?17:22
th1aLike, 10 minutes ago?17:22
aelknerwe have existing code, so i'm going by that17:22
replaceafillimho projects need both search/browsing (drilling)17:23
th1aWas there any point in having that conversation or asking our opinion?17:23
aelknerthe situation needs definition, so hence the conversation, so whatever you mean about that...17:24
th1aSearching for nodes but not skillsets or skills is just an artifact of our data model that won't make sense to users.17:24
th1aUNLESS it happens to be a view where only nodes are ever relevant.17:24
aelknerreplaceafill, do you think that we agreed that ProjectSkillSearchView needs to be reworked?17:25
replaceafillabsolutely, to use your new logic17:25
replaceafillif you can find the skill right at the start, you don't need the drilling part17:26
aelknerso, if the new NodesSearchTable that I'm creating (different from NodesTable)17:26
replaceafillmaybe a (+) button or checkbox + button17:26
th1aIt is like saying "you can't search for resume.pdf directly, you have to search for Documents and then find it."17:27
aelknerwell, the + you're talking about is a special case for adding skillsets or skills to projects17:28
aelknerthat is not the same case as just searching for them17:28
aelknerthe + doesn't have a meaning from the Search tab view17:29
th1aRight now, you can add skillsets or skills, right?  you just have to search the node and navigate.17:29
replaceafillaelkner, all i'm saying is, if you just found the skill you wanted, it should be possible to add it right there, without an extra step17:29
th1aIf anyone could show us an example of what we're even talking about that would be REALLY HELPFUL.17:29
replaceafillth1a, correct17:29
* replaceafill checks his instances17:29
th1aOr if aelkner can do a screenshare hangout...17:30
* replaceafill hates firefox doesn't give me http://17:31
replaceafillAdd -> Skill17:31
aelknerright, so see how that view is very different, not something that is the same as the general mixed search17:33
th1aYeah, that should find skillsets and skills.17:33
th1aThe search isn't so much different as where you go after, right?17:33
aelknerthe search only finds nodes, then where you go after is the skillsets for a given node17:33
replaceafillor children nodes17:34
replaceafill(if it's a cluster)17:34
yvlright, there are skill and skillset checkboxes, but they do not work17:34
th1ayvl:  EXACTLY.17:34
aelkneryes, those checkboxes are not meaningful17:35
aelknerbecause the view is looking for nodes17:35
th1aYour task is to make them work aelkner, that's the entire point.17:35
aelknerby making it work, you mean completely rewriting what replaceafill did17:37
aelknerbecause the paradigm the user goes through presently is completely different than just searching17:37
aelknerit's not like we code a NodesTable and reuse it in the projects skills assignment view17:38
aelknerit just can't be that way17:38
th1aIt isn't that different.17:38
th1aRight now you go table > node > skillset > pick skill.17:39
th1aThere is no reason you can't go table > skillset > pick skill17:39
yvl> (pick skills, click submit button)17:39
th1aor table > skillset > skill preselected.17:39
th1aIf the user clicked on a skill.17:39
th1aThat wouldn't require any completely new views.17:40
yvlth1a, I hope you understand, that it's just not an hour's work17:40
aelknerthanks yvl, that's what i was getting at17:40
th1aI'm aware that I've spent more than an hour talking about it.17:40
th1aRight now it is like going into a grocery store and searching for "Apples" and getting "Not found."17:41
th1aYou have to know to search for "Fruit"17:41
th1aSo it is a pretty major problem.17:41
yvltry finding tomatoes :P17:41
th1aIt isn't like we spent a lot of time writing the current views to filter stuff out for a reason.17:42
th1aAnd we changed our mind.17:42
th1aWe were just following the path of least resistance.17:42
yvlhmm, one thing pops into mind17:43
yvlthere are some 20 pages now17:43
yvlthere will be more pages if we list all skillsets17:43
yvlwe need a skill caltalog :)17:44
yvlor it may get sluggish17:44
aelkneri didn't even get around to mentioning that, yes!17:44
aelkneri already coded the special NodesSearchTable that mixes in the skills17:44
aelknerand it's SLOW17:44
replaceafillwell, there's one skills catalog17:44
replaceafillthat i committed by mistake :(17:44
yvloh, good17:47
aelkneris that catalog already in place, i mean was the evolve script written to add it in?17:47
replaceafillaelkner, you don't need evolution for changing catalogs now17:47
replaceafillthey're versioned17:47
aelknerchanging them, yes, but adding them you need one, right yvl?17:47
yvlall magic17:47
aelknerah, cool17:47
replaceafillblack magic ;)17:47
yvlchange the "version" string, at it reindexes17:48
aelknerok, so i should use the catalog to speed up the mixin of skills, that helps17:48
yvland it reindexes17:48
replaceafillone problem i remember having with this catalog was17:48
replaceafillit indexed project skills17:48
replaceafillmaybe interface needs to be changed or something17:48
yvlactually, you need a bit more custom catalog here17:49
yvlI don't think we need to search for all skills from everywhere17:49
yvlor... maybe we do17:49
yvlor not.17:50
yvlno, not.17:50
yvlbut we do need a catalog with a filter more customized than by interfac17:51
yvlalso - maybe it's worth considering a catalog that also indexes nodes17:51
yvland has attribute "type" or something17:51
replaceafillis it possible to have catalogs that index more than one type of object yvl?17:51
yvltype being skill/node/projectskill17:52
replaceafilllike nodes + skills?17:52
yvleverything is possible if you believe!17:52
yvlbut yes17:52
yvlI think this is getting to the point where the task will get reassigned to me ;)17:53
th1aSo... should yvl work on this?17:53
yvlat least to some extent17:53
replaceafilli can definitely see this search/drilling as plumbing17:53
yvlso... I accept :)17:53
th1aOK, so can aelkner still work on the views or is he blocked now?17:54
yvlI'd say blocked17:54
yvlsince you'll still want to remake them to use catalogs17:54
aelknerthere is still and issue that i didn't mention that we should consider17:55
aelknerthe whole layers concept is not well defined17:56
aelknerwe have these documents that allow us to have special views for adding nodes, skillsets, skills17:56
th1aIt is a data model issue.17:56
aelknerbut having the custom names appear in the all buttons and lists17:56
aelknerbut the SkillSet and Skill layers are not real layers for nodes17:57
yvlyes, by design17:57
aelknernot real layers for anything, actually, because Skillsets and Skills have no layer attribute17:57
yvlyes, by design17:57
aelknerso, how do we know what a layer means17:58
aelknerwhen we are building the list of checkboxes for the filter17:58
aelknerhow do we know that a layer is really for a skill?17:58
th1aThere are layers, skillsets and skills.17:59
yvlwasn't it coded somewhere?17:59
yvllike : layers, two last things are skillsets, skills17:59
th1aIt doesn't seem like a difficult problem.18:00
aelkneryvl, so that view adds two layers, SkillSet and Skill18:01
aelknerputs those layers in the document hierarchy18:01
aelknerok, so what you're saying is that i should use the reverse relationship between layers and node18:02
aelknerto find the document node that relates to that layer18:02
aelknerand then use the psotion of that layer in that document's hierarchy to know it is a skill layer?18:02
yvlthere are not supposed to be any skills in nodes18:02
yvlskills are supposed to be in skillsets18:02
yvlskillsets are supposed to be *linked* to nodes18:03
yvlnodes have layers18:03
yvlnodes should not be linked to skill layers18:03
yvl"skill" layers should not exist18:03
aelknerbut they do18:03
yvlI don't remember the exact implementation18:03
yvlso they are fake then18:03
aelkneras do skillset layers18:03
th1aYou can iterate through the layers in the system, then do skillset and skill, then (if we want to be nice) iterate through the documents to find out other terms used for Skillset and Skill and note them in parentheses, which I think we already discussed.18:03
aelknerth1a, as one iterates thought the layers, one finds the SkillSet and Skill layers18:04
yvlone is supposed to KNOW they are fake18:05
*** ignas has joined #schooltool18:05
aelknerwell, the definition of a layer does not include that fact18:05
th1aWho created these skillset and skill layers?18:05
th1aAnd why?18:05
yvlI *guess* those were created to contain custom skill / skillset names.  You can call them barrrels and buckets if you will18:06
aelkneryou did18:06
aelknerth1a, look, we had to fit a square peg into a round hole to get document views to have18:07
aelknercustom names for skillsets and skills18:07
aelknerso we needed to create bogus layers18:08
th1aI just would have added the names as attributes to the document.18:08
aelknerwell, you've seen this design for months now, and you haven't objected18:08
aelknerit's in the skills import as well18:08
aelknerthe idea of adding the names as attributes to the document is a nice idea18:09
th1aI didn't SEE it.18:09
aelkneri wish i had thought of it18:09
yvlaelkner, really now18:09
yvlif you had listened18:09
yvlwell, anyway, the past is the past.18:09
aelkneryes, but i'm really starting to regret that we have these skillset and skill layers18:10
aelknerthey just don't make sense and are hard to work with when we talk about global search18:10
yvllook, I see two ways to implement the custom skillset and skill naming18:11
th1aFrom the user's point of view, they don't care if they have multiple checkboxes for the differently labeled skills.18:11
th1aIf there is an "Outcome" line and "Skill" line and "Competency" line, and it actually correctly differentiates between them, that's a feature anyhow.18:11
th1aThat is, assuming they're all skills.18:12
yvl1) add attributes to document model, hack all tables that list skills to also list "skillset" and "skill" - so users would understand18:12
yvl2) use fake layers, but *other* code needs to know, that they are the two bottom layers, they are not supposed to have other parents or children than specified18:12
yvland they don't have nodes linked, ever18:13
* yvl done18:14
th1aI don't care about how it is implemented as long as it works.18:15
aelknerwell, we've used fake layers for a while now, so we're kind of married to that18:15
th1aAnd we don't waste a ton of time.18:15
aelknerthe time to have objected to that was months ago, not now18:15
aelknerso as yvl said, 2) is the way18:16
yvlmy point was that either path was not trivial and needed extra work18:16
yvl2) is a little bit more maintenance costly18:16
aelkneryes, thanks yvl, that's been my point for bringing this up, it's not trivial18:16
yvlbut we have it working mostly18:16
th1aI have no idea how the current implementation works, so I'll stay out of it.18:16
yvlwe can keep on with (2)18:17
aelkneri think we have to18:17
th1aSo should you work on that now aelkner?18:18
aelknerit should be me, i just needed some support on my decisions, so that's why i brought up the issues18:19
th1aDo you feel supported?  ;-)18:19
aelkneryvl, i'm glad you saw the issue of:18:19
aelknerbut *other* code needs to know, that they are the two bottom layers18:19
yvlglad to be on the same page :)18:20
th1aOK.  And I thought this would be a short meeting...18:20
th1aThanks aelkner.18:20
aelkneri'll just use the documents to know about the bottom two layers18:20
aelknerok, i'm done18:21
yvlfirst, I worked on thumbnails and the tiny issue that photos do not refresh after change18:22
yvlit turns out I poked a paper bag that had poo in it18:23
th1aIs that a Lithuanian idiom?18:23
yvlno :)18:24
yvlbut it describes my... evalution of situation quite well18:24
yvlin any case, I accidentally started some work I did not intend to do for few months18:24
yvlbut it's needed work18:24
yvl(and I already tabled it today)18:24
yvlthe thing is, that Matt brought up some time ago issues with Zope serving static resources18:25
yvlI think we'll have more uploaded/generated resources as soon as celery deploys18:25
yvland we do have some already with photos18:25
yvlso it would be really good to prepare for...18:26
yvlimplementing a tiny thing to serve them18:26
yvlnot a zope instance, just serve from disk18:26
yvland lookup what to serve in zope18:26
th1aSo it would just be from Apache?18:27
yvlI think we'll just use flask again18:27
yvlbecause apache needs to be configured externally18:27
replaceafilli mean, where did you use flask before?18:28
yvlI use it to serve json task results in celery branch18:28
replaceafillisn't that bottle?18:28
replaceafillor are they the same?18:28
yvlok, maybe it's bottle18:28
replaceafillah :)18:28
yvlno, but one evolved from another18:28
replaceafillit's just that i remember checking the code and seeing bottle :)18:28
yvlanyway :)18:28
yvlit would be quite similar to serving with Apache18:29
yvlso images will reside somewhere like18:29
yvlwhich gives you a nice "Save As" as an extra18:30
yvlthis also solves the non-refreshing photo thing18:30
yvlthat was happening, because after upload, url to the image was not changing18:30
yvlas in persons/manager/photo.jpg18:30
yvlso browsers didn't even bother to check if it changed18:31
yvluntil you visit the site next time18:31
yvlor hit F518:31
yvlthere was another bug18:31
yvland it is a cautionary tale18:31
yvlbe careful when you copy-paste code18:31
yvland be AFRAID of bare excepts18:31
yvlthere was a bug, that ended up ignoring If-Modified-Before header18:32
yvlbecause the code inside try: except: was broken python18:32
replaceafillouch, my bad18:32
yvl(and the code would not have worked anyway I think)18:32
yvlwell, happens to all of us18:32
yvljust a cautionary tale18:33
yvlI ended up with thing that also needs evolution to update all photos18:33
yvland finishing some of the views18:33
yvlI think its 0.5-1.5 days worth of coding18:34
yvlI'm getting cautious, because unexpected things were piling up18:34
yvlso, I tabled it today, and went to look at reports18:34
yvl(well, late today)18:35
yvlthe report design bible is... scarce for my taste18:35
yvland missing some info18:35
yvlfor example, what to do if gradebook report has many students18:36
yvland it fills in exactly 1.5 pages18:36
yvlbut it is so wide18:36
yvlthat it should have // continued part spread in 3 pages?18:36
yvlwe should end up with... 6 pages?18:36
yvlin what order?18:36
th1aI think we're as well equipped to deal with that as Vinny.18:37
th1aThat's not a graphic design problem.18:37
th1aThis is just meant to be equivalent to the Ubuntu Web Guidelines.18:37
yvlthat's the thing - Ubuntu Web Guidelines set the bar too high18:38
yvljust those little details18:38
th1aIt isn't a complete specification of any of the reports, and Vinny throws in some of his own ideas about, say, what should go in the report card.18:38
yvlso, I tried to see what "bricks" this thing is made of18:39
th1aYeah, don't look too deep.18:39
th1aIt is a style guide.18:39
yvlthere's of course the awesome and complex gradebook brick18:39
yvlgrid + continuation handling + slanted headers + proper page splitting + text if splits18:40
th1aActually, he went off the reservation with a lot of it.18:40
yvlI vaguely remember reportlab being able to handle all this - but in python and it was hairy18:40
th1aYeah... he's not paying us to implement it for him.18:41
th1aWe paid him for some ideas.18:41
th1aSo... we can ignore or defer them as needed.18:41
yvlI just wanted to potint some points that may cause trouble18:41
yvlthe reports do look beautiful in my opinion18:42
th1areplaceafill looked at the diagonal type issue, as I recall.18:42
replaceafilldidn't get too far though18:42
th1aIt IS something that would be useful in a LOT of reports, so I'd spend up to a week on it if necessary.18:42
yvlth1a, do you think we could invest in those tiny beautiful things, like slanted text and such?18:43
yvlin my opinion - reports sell18:43
th1aSlanted text in particular, yes.18:43
th1aOtherwise you get shitty abbreviations that parents don't want to decipher.18:43
yvlwell, at least they helped selling Ivija a lot18:43
yvlI liked what replaceafill did18:44
yvlno, really18:44
yvlnow, we can split those parts to separate viewlets18:44
replaceafilli want "flourish" reports ;)18:44
yvland, for example, register person/title/school thingy to only report cards and other relevant18:45
yvlI think our first task with it will be trying to remake most of the design doc in our code18:46
yvlwithout thinking too much about viewlets or anything18:46
yvlor even actual info18:46
yvlI'd really like to get RML first18:46
yvlthat renders like the doc18:46
yvlreporlab is bitchy, so we'll have to be flexible on this one18:47
yvland by flexible I mean - do proper plumbing :D18:47
yvlso that writing new reports would be as little painful as possible18:47
yvlwell, at least not a nightmare18:47
yvlso, now I have 3 tasks on my hands:18:48
yvlcatalogs for skills and nodes18:48
yvlfinish with images / thumbnails / file catalog18:49
yvlRML for design doc18:49
yvlth1a could kindly set the priorities ;)18:49
yvlbtw - I would call open season for writing RML18:49
yvlI do have some experience with reportlab (4 years ago),18:50
th1aWell, we need to get the catalog done, unfortunately.18:50
th1aI don't think there is a rush on the images but you might want to just wrap up the oose end.18:51
yvlbut even if our RML work duplicates, it would be good for all of us I think18:51
yvlth1a, I can table images, if you promise to let me finish them some two weeks later18:51
yvlbefore moving to another thing18:51
yvl(and ending up digging them up 8 months later)18:52
th1aOK.  They don't block anything else, unlike catalogs and RML.18:52
yvlcode tends to rot left alone18:52
th1aI know.18:52
yvlcatalogs, then RML18:53
yvlif replaceafill or aelkner has spare time18:53
yvland wants to write RML for some pages of design doc18:53
yvlthat would be swell - especially as they have th1a in same timezone18:54
yvland as this does not need to use any real data, or any real yet-to-implement infrastrucure18:54
th1aI'm not sure precisely what you mean yvl.18:54
replaceafillrml from scratch?18:54
yvlit won't clash18:54
yvlkind of18:55
aelkneryvl, you mean creating rml directives, right?18:55
aelknerso that we can use them in templates as tags18:55
yvlno, just writing in something like "static html" in the old days18:55
yvlfor example18:55
yvltake page 6 from design doc18:55
yvland try to write some page in schooltool that renders exactly that in pdf18:56
yvlfake data, lots of copy paste18:56
yvlgoal is so that it would look like the design doc18:56
th1aI think we should just work from our real reports.18:56
yvland then you can ask th1a to judge if it's good enough18:56
th1aWe don't need to make fake ones.18:56
replaceafillyvl, using the current/existing pdf base view?18:57
yvlwell, we can use real reports18:57
yvlmy main point was - to find the quirks and kinks of reportlab18:57
yvland to find patterns that can be extracted for reus18:58
th1aHow does this  relate to what replaceafill already did?18:58
replaceafillcould that be used as base?18:59
yvlbut I don't think the list (table?) conforms well to the design doc at the moment19:00
replaceafillit doesn't have all the elements at all19:00
replaceafilljust row hightlighting i think19:00
replaceafillpositioning maybe19:00
replaceafillof headers, etc19:00
yvlfor tables - also sub-section title19:01
yvlthere could also be  "continued on the next page >" thingy19:01
yvlmany small things, and most of the time they won't cause trouble19:01
yvlI want to know which ones and why will cause it19:01
yvlbefore we write plumbing and many reports19:02
yvlbut that's just my take on it19:02
th1aWe have simple real reports to start on.19:02
yvl(also, please try using loooooooooong titles everywhere)19:02
yvlas for real reports - whatever is simpler/faster19:03
yvlas for section roster - simple, easy, good report for real data19:03
replaceafilljust small comment19:04
replaceafillare we going to use "cm" as unit for reports?19:05
replaceafillwe used to use "inch", right?19:05
yvlI'm european, so... :D19:05
yvlyou know what I vote for.19:05
replaceafilli vote for cm19:06
yvlbut in real life it doesn't matter19:06
yvlit's better when it's consistent19:06
replaceafillalso, most of the "bible" is in cm :)19:06
th1aI assume metric makes more sense.19:07
th1aI have no real opinion on it.19:07
replaceafillcm it is! :D19:07
th1aCan we move on yvl?19:07
* yvl done19:07
th1aThanks yvl.19:07
th1amenesis:  I had no idea it would take this long to get to you!19:07
*** yvl has quit IRC19:08
*** yvl has joined #schooltool19:09
menesisI have one new feature for the philippines project19:09
yvlnetsplit :/19:09
menesisthat I was implementing since yesterday19:09
menesisbefore that, made a table to map ubuntu/ppa/schooltool versions19:10
th1aThat was a good idea.19:10
menesisand that's all19:11
menesisth1a: anything you want me to do after I finish the philippines feature?19:12
th1aAh... nothing in particular.  We'll need a CanDo bugfix release next week.19:12
th1aThanks menesis.19:12
th1areplaceafill:  I need to settle on some skills for demo/doc purposes.19:12
th1aDo you have Joe's?19:13
replaceafilldo you want me to set up a new instance?19:14
replaceafillwith them?19:14
th1aNo, I need the skills themselves.19:15
th1aThe CTE ones are too massive.19:15
replaceafillthe xls?19:15
replaceafillah ok19:15
replaceafilli'll send you the xls19:15
replaceafilli have programming skills also19:15
replaceafillmath and algebra19:15
replaceafillfrom jelkner's pilot19:15
th1aThrow those in too.19:16
th1aOK.  THANKS GUYS.19:16
replaceafillthanks everybody19:17
th1aHave a great week/weekend.19:17
aelknerthanks for everyone's patience with the layers issue19:17
th1aThat was an unexpectedly epic meeting...19:17
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.19:17
aelknergreat weekend everyone19:17
yvlgood weekend to all19:17
yvlgood meeting19:18
yvlbut good :)19:18
yvl(too long though :D )19:18
aelknerlots of weighty topics coevered19:18
th1ayvl was feeling chatty.19:18
aelkneri appreciated chatty yvl19:19
yvlLooking at backlog... Oh.  Chatty.19:19
yvlsee you all Mon :)19:20
replaceafillth1a, sent19:22
aelknerth1a, your cell phone sucks at your house19:24
th1aYeah, I was just checking.19:25
th1aThis sucks.19:25
aelkneri got your call, but you weren'r there19:25
th1aI know.  I was just trying to talk to Welsh and making sure it wasn't something with him.19:26
aelknercan you get a repeater or something to solve your situation?19:26
th1aWell, it is kind of ridiculous.19:27
th1aEspecially since my wife has had an AT&T iPhone for two years with no apparent probems.19:27
aelknercould it just be your office?  she doesn't make calls from there, right?19:28
th1aI was just standing outside.19:28
replaceafillit's the iphone5! let's try an android :D19:28
aelknermust be the phone then19:28
th1aWell... I guess it could be the phone.19:29
replaceafillrebooting, brb19:36
*** replaceafill has quit IRC19:36
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool19:39
*** ignas has quit IRC20:05
*** menesis has quit IRC20:19
th1aaelkner: ayt?22:31

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!