IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2012-07-24

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jelknerreplaceafill, good morning!15:33
replaceafillgood morning jelkner15:34
jelkneri'm in class15:35
jelknerbut i want to talk cando with you15:35
replaceafillok, i just replied to your last email15:36
jelkneri'm talking skills with students now15:40
jelknerwe need to talk about how they view their skills15:40
jelknerthere should be a way for them to see all section skills at once15:41
replaceafillah, got it15:42
replaceafillyes, right now, they see each worksheet15:43
jelknershould i read your email before we talk more?15:51
jelknerthe teacher workflow for grading is important15:51
jelkneri'm finding it really cumbersome now15:51
jelknerwhat i usually do is ask students to work on a project15:51
jelknerthen i sit down at the computer with their web page and schooltool open at the same time15:52
jelknerand i search their work looking for evidence of skills15:52
jelkner"ahh, look, a group selector, let me give her credit for that..."15:53
jelknerbut as it is now15:53
jelkneri have no idea where that skill is15:53
jelknerall i see is little numbers15:53
jelknerand i have to mouse over to find the skill15:53
jelknerwhat's worse15:54
jelknerit may not be in the current "skill set"15:54
jelknerso no i have to change that15:54
jelknerbefore i can continue searching15:54
jelknerit took me a loooong time to evaluate skills15:54
jelknerlike my brother often tells me15:54
jelkneri'm the "perfect idiot user"15:54
jelkneri'm slow15:54
jelknerso if it works for me, it will likely work for others15:55
jelkneranyway, i figured this was what summer testing was all about15:55
replaceafillnow that i think of, i believe the "score" option you get the bug from won't help here15:55
jelknerso i'm doing it15:55
replaceafillbecause it would show you only a single worksheet15:55
jelknerin the old cando15:56
replaceafilli think you want the old "cando" student gradebook15:56
jelknerwe could see all skills in a section15:56
jelknerboth teachers and students will want that15:56
replaceafilli remember15:56
jelknerwe don't really care much about the groups15:56
jelknerwe care about the section skills15:56
jelknerstudent question, brb15:57
replaceafilljelkner, did you check the "Skills Pop-up" dialog?15:57
jelknerbut i can do that now15:59
jelkneras teacher?15:59
replaceafillin the View group on the left15:59
jelkneror student?15:59
jelknerhold on15:59
replaceafillas a teacher15:59
replaceafillbelow the radio buttons15:59
jelknerso i'm here16:01
jelknerwhere is the "skills popup dialog?"16:01
replaceafilloh sorry16:02
replaceafillin your version is under16:02
replaceafillCourse Skills -> View16:02
replaceafillbelow Year16:02
jelknerahh i see it16:02
jelkneri looks nice16:02
replaceafillit looks weird16:02
jelknerbut it really doesn't help me16:02
jelknerwith the problem16:02
jelknersince i'm still click click, clicking to see that is going on...16:03
jelknerthe way the old cando worked was fine in this regard16:03
jelkneri would say we need that back16:03
jelknera single scrollable page with all skills open16:03
jelknernot collapsed16:03
jelkneror at least the ability to open collapsed groups16:04
jelknermore than one16:04
jelknerso that the open group doesn't collapse when you open another one16:04
jelknerotherwise, the system keeps hiding from me what i want to see16:04
jelknerthis is where being an idiot user comes in most handy ;-)16:05
jelkneri can't remember from one minute to the next which group a skill is in16:05
jelknerso when it collapses, i forget :-(16:05
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dreichreplaceafill, is there an easy way to find out if a person is an instructor by username?16:49
replaceafilldreich, no16:50
replaceafillyou need to check the instructor_sections16:50
dreichthat's not so much fun16:51
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dreichreplaceafill, I'm still working on the same thing17:47
dreichand I can't find any better option than writing a new schooltool xmlrpc method to check if a user is an instructor or not17:47
replaceafillwhat would your method do?17:48
replaceafillto know if the person is an instructor?17:48
dreichcall getPersonInfo17:49
dreichand then see if instructor_sections is not empty17:50
replaceafillthat's what i said, isn't?17:50
dreichpretty much :P17:50
dreichit just took me a while to get that you meant through schooltool17:51
dreichbecause I can't just call get_user_info straight, it does an auth thing that fails17:51
replaceafillyou need to understand that pyquiz follows ST about security17:52
replaceafillin ST you can't be checking other's people info17:52
replaceafillif you're not authorized to do so17:52
dreichcan I even not check whether or not they're instructors?17:52
replaceafillso the question becomes: do you need to know if the "current" user is an instructor?17:52
dreichno, I need to look up by username17:53
replaceafillfor the sharing stuff?17:53
dreichi need a list of people who can be shared with17:53
dreichI could list everyone, but we don't want students being shared quizzes accidentally, and that makes the interface messy17:53
replaceafillfrom ST security POV teachers should only be allowed to share quizzes with other teachers in the same section17:55
replaceafillunless the ST security settings are modified17:55
dreichwe'll want to talk to jeff about this, I didn't know that17:55
replaceafillagain, pyquiz follows ST on this17:55
replaceafillif you need pyquiz to do something different you need another persistent mechanism17:56
replaceafilllike storing user info on the pyquiz side17:56
replaceafill-1 on that from me17:56
replaceafillbut it's up to the user :)17:56
replaceafillor, the customer ;)17:56
replaceafilldo you have a testing instance for ST?17:57
dreichI'm fine with pyquiz following ST, but that looks like it might cause some problems with Joe's stuff17:57
dreichyeah, I do17:57
dreichof schooltool.pyquiz17:57
replaceafillas manager go to the Server tabs17:57
replaceafillthen Security17:57
replaceafillyou'll see the "default" security settings17:58
replaceafillsome of them can be changed17:58
replaceafilllike "everyone sees everyone" in the system17:58
replaceafilland so on17:58
jelkner-1 from customer on storing user information in pyquiz17:58
jelknerwe aren't rewriting ST17:58
jelknerthat's what *it's* for!17:59
replaceafillthen you have to adjust to its security settings17:59
replaceafillbut again, it's possible to modify those17:59
replaceafillit's just pretty restricted by default17:59
replaceafilldreich, try playing with those settings and call the xmlrpc methods18:00
replaceafillsome authorization fails should go away18:00
dreichok, i'll give that a shot, thanks!18:00
replaceafill(depending on what you'r trying to see)18:00
pgulleyis there anyway to modify the security settings via xmlrpc?18:01
replaceafillno(t yet) :)18:01
replaceafillyou could add those18:01
replaceafillif you need them18:01
replaceafilland have the permissions to do it18:02
replaceafilli mean, a teacher may not be able to do it18:02
replaceafillbut a teacher who is also an admin would18:02
replaceafillthat's ST security model by default:18:04
replaceafill"Existing user accessed by administrator. All the sections are listed:"18:04
replaceafill"Existing user accessed by one of her teachers. The only sections18:04
replaceafilllisted are the ones the teacher has access to:"18:04
replaceafilland so on18:04
pgulleyright. I don't like the idea of having pyquiz functionality hinge on settings buried inside of ST, but if we had a pyquiz manager user who could fetch that information?18:05
pgulleyits a little complecated.18:05
pgulleyit's a lot complecated actually18:05
replaceafillyou could allow ST admins to log in to pyquiz18:05
replaceafillbut i think the manager should do it in ST side18:06
replaceafillif needed18:06
replaceafillof again18:06
replaceafillor again*18:06
replaceafillyou design a sharing system that uses groups in ST for example18:06
replaceafilland you change the group security setting in ST18:07
pgulleybut we want that information to be accessible to teachers who aren't necessarily  managers. without opening up a huge hole in the security of ST.18:07
replaceafillpgulley, you don't open a security hole18:07
replaceafillit's standard functionality18:07
replaceafillif you want that in pyquiz, you probably want it in ST18:08
replaceafilli mean, if you want pyquiz teachers to see each other18:08
replaceafillmaybe you're ok with ST teachers seeing each other too18:08
pgulleybut then you have some functionality of pyquiz which will break if schooltool settings are changed.18:09
replaceafillthen you disable that functionality18:09
pgulleyfair enough18:09
replaceafillmake it optional18:09
replaceafillbut guys, these are just my 2 cents :)18:10
replaceafillthis is software development18:10
replaceafillyou can do anything you want ;)18:10
pgulleyhahah, no I think you're right here.18:11
replaceafillalso consider, we have schooltool.pyquiz18:12
replaceafillwhich is an application setup18:12
replaceafillso it means it can have its own settings18:12
pgulleythe alternative is incredibly hackish. This way, as long as we make it break gracefully it should be fine.18:12
pgulleyoh true18:12
replaceafilllike you can add a zcml file to completely modify ST behaviour18:12
replaceafilland then you'll be sure pyquiz have that enabled18:12
replaceafillall those settings you see in ST at /access_control.html18:13
replaceafillcan be completely customized on schooltool.pyquiz18:13
dreichwait, though, the only relevant setting i see at /access_control is 'list of users'18:14
replaceafilli mention this as an alternative to "making your functionality disable on conditions"18:14
dreichwhich isn't quite what we want18:14
pgulleythat does make it much nicer18:14
replaceafilldreich, see Group information18:14
replaceafillagain, you could share quizzes with anybody in the Teachers group18:14
dreichah, ok18:15
dreichso we'll need to write an xmlrpc method to get all the members of a given group?18:16
replaceafillif you go that route, yes18:16
replaceafillif pyquiz user is in groupFoo, then pyquiz user should be able to list all users in groupFoo18:17
pgulleyis there a "teachers" group?18:17
pgulleycool, problem solved.18:18
replaceafillsee /groups view in ST18:18
dreichreplaceafill, could you tell me how to use a zcml file in ST.pyquiz to let people see everyone in their group?19:39
replaceafillgrep for "everyone_can_view_group_info" in the schooltool branch19:40
replaceafillyou'll see the security setting19:41
replaceafillchange it to True by default19:41
replaceafillin schooltool.pyquiz19:41
replaceafillyou may need an includeOverrides directive for that19:41
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aelknerreplaceafill, hey21:14
replaceafillhey aelkner21:14
aelknerwe were supposed to be meeting?21:14
aelknercould you post the link to your demo instance in the meantime?21:15
replaceafilli think dwelsh didn't reply to our emails21:15
aelkneri see you didn't wipe the db and load the new skills i sent21:16
aelkneryou're waiting for welsh on that, right?21:16
replaceafillnot yet21:16
replaceafilli don't want to get in the middle of their testing21:16
replaceafilli did put the new file in the vps folder21:17
aelknerah, cool, i was just about to ask that :)21:18
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replaceafillaelkner, your changes in my dev sandbox:
aelknerah, thanks21:54
th1areplaceafill, aelkner: Was there a meeting?22:27
replaceafillwe're on it22:27
th1aThis really doesn't have to be that bold.23:10
th1aWe need to back off on the section permissions.23:16
th1aaelkner: You just need to clean up the description formatting there.23:17
aelknerth1a, sorry, i must have missed something, what description?23:19
th1aIn the skill.23:19
replaceafillthe current view23:19
replaceafilldwelsh is showing23:19
* replaceafill goes to get lunch!!!23:39

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