IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-06-11

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th1ahi aelkner, yvl, replaceafill.16:31
jelknerwhat, the lurking jelkner doesn't warrent a "hi"?16:32
yvlgood morning guys16:32
th1aOnly paid staff are greeted.  ;-)16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
th1ahi jelkner.16:32
jelknerhi th1a16:33
jelknerdwelsh said richmond was awesome116:33
th1aYes, very good all around.16:33
jelknermore great news16:33
jelknerwe've getting a lot of that lately16:33
jelkneranyway, just wanted to say good morning16:34
jelknergo on with your meeting16:34
th1aWe knocked out some importer issues.  Welsh and Glenda really went over the process closely.16:35
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th1aaelkner:  Did you work on that at all over the weekend?16:36
th1ahi menesis.16:36
aelknerth1a, i started working on the importer changes we discussed, only got started though16:36
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aelknerdid you come up with any new decisions since we last spoke?16:37
aelkneryou said you were going to think about the whole keys vrs titles issue and reimporting, etc.16:37
th1aThe section importer is going to be the tricky part.16:37
th1aI think we should consider separating creating the sections and assigning students.16:37
aelknerinteresting, go on16:38
aelknertitle matching?16:38
th1aWell, it makes it easier to have one step to create multi-term sections.16:38
th1aExplicit ID's can be optional on import.16:39
th1aShouldn't be harder to automatically generate for schools.16:39
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th1aAlso it will be more sane if in the not too distant future we need to include section enrollment information.16:41
th1aIncluding that in the current form would really be a mess.16:41
aelknerso, how do you mean separating creating sections from assigning students, separate sheets?16:41
th1aOne sheet has one line per section.16:42
th1aAnd the second sheet assigns students to section id's.16:42
aelknerwhat is included besides courses, term, title and description?16:42
th1aOr one line per multi-term section.16:42
aelknerresourses, titmetables, they take up multiple lines16:43
th1aOK then.16:43
aelkneri guess you're saying that they go in the same table as the students16:43
th1aaelkner: I don't necessarily come up with all the details before making suggestions.  ;-)16:44
aelkneri understand, i'm just asking16:44
th1aThe main thing is that I think we'll need to separate the creating sections and assigning students steps.16:45
aelkneri think the FlatSectionsTable has many benefits, namely supporting adding students, resources, timteblas16:45
aelknerit's just the title matching that seems to be an issue16:45
th1aThis might work better with comma-separated lists in some of the cells though, rather than multiple lines.16:45
th1aI think it is less of an issue simply because when it is one importer for the whole thing, there's more guessing in general going on.16:46
th1aLike when you switch to a new section, etc.16:46
aelknerresources can definitely be a comma-spearated list of ids, but timetables is a table of day, period tuples16:46
th1aI feel comfortable saying "If you import a bunch of sections with no id's, they're going to be added as new sections."16:47
th1aMaybe timetables should be a separate sheet too.16:47
aelkneragain, with titles or ids?16:48
th1aWe don't have to hash all this out now, you've got other things to do first.16:49
aelkneri can show you the textarea that i added to the form after the meeting if you like, for styling suggestions16:50
aelkneri just took the existing errors and put them there for now16:50
aelkneri know that they will change to be grouped and all, but you could look at the testarea and the form16:51
th1aAnything else, aelkner?16:51
aelknerthen perhaps we could talk on the phone about the changing of the various sheets16:51
aelknernothing else for me16:52
th1aThanks aelkner.16:52
th1amenesis_:  Are we ready for a bugfix release?16:52
replaceafilli have a question for menesis_ about that16:53
menesis_I had difficulties merging only the wanted fixes16:53
replaceafillmenesis_, i need to branch series 2.1 of all trunks, correct?16:54
th1aIs everything lumped together too much in the commits?16:54
menesis_Because of many random "merge trunk"16:54
menesis_So I have not finished that yet16:55
th1aHm... ok.16:55
th1aSo basically you're having to do more manual fiddling this time?16:55
menesis_The only things I wanted to skip are Flat section table16:55
menesis_And gradebook css/js changes16:56
menesis_But I'll probably merge flat sections16:57
menesis_But not make it default exporter16:57
th1aThat's fine.16:57
th1aOK, so send me a link to the release notes when you're ready with that.16:58
menesis_Question: I'd like to rename that sheet to Simply "Sections"16:59
menesis_There is a branch where i have done that17:00
th1aYes, I was thinking that...17:00
th1aI guess the other factor here is that this section importer is probably going to almost completely change in the very near future anyhow.17:00
menesis_replaceafill: yes. 2.1 branches to make sure it looks OK17:01
replaceafillmenesis_, kk17:01
replaceafillmenesis_, another quick question17:01
th1aMaybe we shouldn't release it for that reason.17:01
replaceafillare we going to support 2.1 for a while?17:01
aelknerrenaming FlatSectionsTable to Sections would make sense, we'd just need better logic17:01
replaceafillmenesis_, i was thinking of adding the helper to print the gradebook for 2.1 tests, like we have in trunk17:02
aelknerfor finding the old style Sections sheets17:02
replaceafillbut i'm not sure if it's worth it17:02
th1aWe will need to support 2.1 for a while.17:02
th1aIt is in Ubuntu LTS and CL.17:03
menesis_aelkner: I have done that17:03
replaceafillth1a, maybe we should add stests to it then (currently it doesn't have any)17:03
menesis_replaceafill: more tests for 2.1 are welcome17:04
th1aYes, but not an immediate priority, unfortunately.17:05
replaceafillmenesis_, i just wanted to make sure i didnt break anything :)17:05
replaceafillin the layout of the gradebook i mean17:05
replaceafillnp, i'll keep my manual testing then :/17:05
th1amenesis_:  Would it screw things up now to just not include the new sections sheet in the bugfix release?17:06
th1aSince it is all changing anyhow?17:06
menesis_No, I will manage that17:07
menesis_Could not decide what to do17:07
aelknermenesis_, did you merge your changes into trunk yet17:08
aelkneri mean, if you added logic for finding old sections sheets, i'd be interested in seeing that and using it myself17:08
menesis_replaceafill: if there are tests in trunk, merge/copy them17:09
replaceafillmenesis_, kk17:09
menesis_But don't need new one17:09
menesis_aelkner: no. In my xls branch17:10
aelkneri'm looking at it now17:10
th1aOK... can we move on?17:13
aelknermenesis_, i'd do the check in the import_data method, and i'd have it match anything that matches Sections*17:13
aelknerbut not equal to exactly Sections17:13
menesis_I'm done17:13
th1aBy next week there should be three new section import sheets anyhow (at least...).17:14
menesis_aelkner: why?17:14
aelkneryeah, so we'll handle the sheet matching when we know what we are matching17:14
aelknermenesis_, never mind, like th1a said, it's going to change17:15
th1athanks menesis_17:15
yvlI took the Fri off17:17
yvlsorry about that17:17
yvlon the journal front, there are two things left17:17
yvlevolution and gradebook reports17:17
yvlI should be done tomorrow if I don't encounter anything unexpected/forgotten17:18
yvldone Wed if I do17:18
yvlI plan to start working on long running processes after that, unless you have other tasks for me17:18
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yvlmy report was so impressive, it blew th1a's internet connection away :)17:19
th1aMy babysitter arrived and I'm trying to switch computers.17:20
th1a_OK.  Sounds good.17:20
th1a_We'll have to walk through the journal changes wednesday?17:21
yvlwe can17:22
th1a_Actually I'll probably have some suggestions at that point.17:22
yvlbut it's pretty much straightforward17:22
th1a_So yes, let's plan on that.17:22
th1a_Oh, also, we're probably going to be doing a hangout with welsh by default every wednesday.17:22
th1a_Until we get everything settled.17:23
th1a_So maybe we can do a hangout demo internally for the journal too.17:23
th1a_Thanks yvl.17:23
replaceafilllast week we had a schooltool installation/configuration workshop at MINED (ministry of education)17:24
replaceafilli trained 4 of their IT staff members on it17:25
replaceafillon friday, 2 people from their training teachers personnel attended the workshop17:25
replaceafilland i showed them how to use every part of ST17:25
replaceafilleven though it's a little overwhelming (so many things to know in 2 hours), they were very pleased with ST17:26
th1a_Were these people who have worked with their current SIS?17:26
replaceafillnot really17:27
replaceafillthey're in a different office at MINED17:27
th1a_I'll be curious to hear from people who have used both.17:28
replaceafillyou know17:28
replaceafillthe director of education technology told me on friday that if i wanted to meet someone from their SIS office, he could arrange an appointment17:28
replaceafilli said i'd think about it17:28
aelkneri agree with th1a that comparing the two is important17:29
aelknerwhat the people at that meeting say will really tell us what we have17:29
th1a_I'm sure there's some interdepartmental politics involved here.17:29
replaceafillth1a, absolutely17:29
aelknerthat would be the first time that happened then :)17:30
replaceafillanyway, i could have access to their SIS i think17:30
replaceafilli just don't see if that's relevant to us17:30
replaceafilli mean...17:30
replaceafillidk :)17:30
th1a_We aren't initially targeting schools that are already using that, right?17:30
replaceafillno, as i told you in my first email, there's opportunity because they're not really using it nation wide17:31
replaceafillwe could land in some schools that don't have even internet connection17:31
replaceafillbut they'll have ubuntu servers in the schools17:31
replaceafilltheir SIS can't work like that17:31
th1a_Well, definitely you should review it at some point.17:32
replaceafillthat's really one point in ST's favor17:32
replaceafillbeing able to run locally for the schools17:32
th1a_Perhaps before blundering into some kind of political crossfire.17:32
replaceafillthat's what i want to avoid :(17:32
replaceafilli'm bad a fighting :P17:32
replaceafillit was a nice workshop17:33
replaceafilli started to feel like i can train people on this :)17:33
replaceafilland on friday i worked on the css changes for the gradebook 2.117:33
replaceafilli'll push/request merge that today17:33
th1a_replaceafill:  I want to do some gradebook fiddling with you.  Perhaps this afternoon?17:34
replaceafillth1a_, i also saw your email about the third-nav change in the gradebook17:34
replaceafillright :)17:34
replaceafilli'll be here17:34
replaceafillany specific time?17:34
th1a_OK, that's good for me.17:34
th1a_Two and a half hours from now?17:35
th1a_1:00 my time?17:35
replaceafill11 mine, sure17:35
* replaceafill done17:35
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replaceafillth1a_, btw i'll probably go with the IT guys to Chalchuapa on Thursday17:36
replaceafillthey're going to demo ST on their own and get requirements from the teachers17:36
replaceafillthey're going to confirm today/tomorrow17:36
* replaceafill done again :)17:37
th1a_OK, one last issue.17:37
th1a_Testing import/export more thoroughly.17:37
th1a_We need to do it, even if it is a bit hacky.17:37
th1a_Or if we have to build some extra testing machinery.17:37
th1a_What do we need?17:37
aelkneroh, yes, testing exports17:38
aelknerright now we only do unit tests on exports17:39
aelknerthose tests were there from before i started working on them years ago, so i'm not sure if there is a technical reason for not having functional tests17:39
aelknerperhaps, in selenium, it would be easier17:40
aelkneror possible even?17:40
aelknerdoes anyone know how we can test for the file returned rather than the html payload?17:40
yvlhmm, I haven't :)17:41
yvlI think it may be quite easy though17:41
yvlwell somewhat easy17:41
yvlor maybe not17:42
aelknereasier now that it's selenium and not zope TestBrowser, right?17:42
* yvl shrugs17:42
yvlmy bet is that it was easier with TestBrowser17:42
replaceafilli remember i looked for it and found no "easy" solution17:42
yvlbut maybe it's as easy now as it was17:42
yvlwell, you can always get the response, take the body without headers17:43
yvlfeed it to string io17:43
yvland open it with xlwt17:43
yvlor something along the lines17:43
aelknerthat's the idea, we just need someone to code it :)17:43
yvlthen again, with the live browsers that might be a tiny bit different17:44
yvlI can look into it if you want17:45
yvlor you can look at it :)17:45
th1a_Well, we need it.17:45
th1a_Before we need long-running processes.17:46
yvlok :)17:46
th1a_It isn't good to have our most error-prone procedure our least well tested.17:46
yvlso I'll check17:46
th1a_Or perhaps the latter explains the former.17:47
aelkneryvl, that would be a great help, thanks17:47
yvlof course, we can do integrational style tests17:47
yvlthat may be even better17:47
aelknerwell, i'd say that would be a separate step17:47
yvlas in - doctests running on functional layer17:47
yvlthe environment would be identical to functional tests, only without the actual http server17:48
yvlbtw, aelkner, what did you mean by having no export tests?17:49
aelknerwe only have them as unit tests, and they cheat by calling methods within classes17:50
aelknerthat doesn't properly test the end to end of the views17:50
aelkneri would say that creating a different functional testing infrastructure with no http server is a whole other subject17:50
yvlbut we already do that17:51
aelknerall we need is to be able to query the file contents as easily as we query the dom noe from within selenium tests17:51
yvlsee schooltool/export/tests/test_export.py17:51
aelknerwe could add a mehod that returns the STringIO objects and then the txt file could take it from there17:52
yvlnow that I think of it, I can't find many benefits17:53
aelkneryvl, i was referring to the when i spoke of the unit tests17:53
yvlso they're not17:53
yvlentirely unit :)17:53
aelknersee how it actually calls the format_whatever() method instead of calling the export17:53
yvlbut the thing is, that whole machinery is up at that point17:53
yvlso if you wrote something that executes the import or export view17:54
yvlyou could easily check within the live system17:54
aelknerit's a unit testing environment for views, it's not a true functional testing environment17:54
yvla lie17:54
yvlwell, mostly a lie17:54
yvlas environment - it is true functional17:55
yvljust without the serving part17:55
yvlthe one with the browser and the javascript and all17:55
aelkneryeah, that part17:56
aelknerthat's what we need17:56
aelknerbecause we wnat to test the user experience and make sure it works17:56
yvlI'll look into that17:56
aelknerthanks, i can code the logic for calling into xlrd from within the txt file17:57
yvlI just thought it was worth mentioning, that we17:57
th1a_How are we testing the user experience?17:57
aelknerth1a, we use selenium17:58
th1a_User experience isn't the problem here.17:58
th1a_Data loss is.17:58
aelknerok, granted, but you'd agree that a functional test that does what a user does would help17:58
yvlwell, I would agree with aelkner that testing functionally would be better17:59
yvlI mean I do :)17:59
th1a_OK, so yvl is looking into it after we wrap up the journal changes and before long-running processes then?17:59
yvlor tomorrow morning18:00
yvlif it's easy, i'll do that immediately18:00
th1a_OK.  Thanks yvl.18:00
th1a_See you guys Wednesday.18:00
* th1a_ drops the bag of gravel.18:01
replaceafillthanks everybody18:01
aelknerthanks guys, cya wed18:01
yvlsee you guys soon18:01
aelknerreplaceafill, could you post a link to one of your demo instances please?18:02
replaceafillaelkner, any?18:03
aelknerreplaceafill, check this out18:04
aelknergo to the import xls view from chrome and look at the screen real quick as it loads18:05
aelknerit shows the spinner and then it disappears18:05
aelknerit doesn't work that way in firefox, weird18:05
replaceafilli've seen it in the Server section18:05
replaceafillmaybe we should add the element through js instead of just showing it18:06
replaceafilli think it's because chrome is more aggressive loading resources18:06
replaceafilllike loading the html and the css in parallel18:06
aelknercan we load it with html that says it's hidden, then use js to unhide?18:07
replaceafillaelkner, i also think we're about to get rid of those hacky spinners18:07
replaceafillwhen yvl works on the long-running processes18:07
aelknerok, never mind then18:07
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aelknercan you please choose a file from our stests directory, like errant_flat_sections.xls18:08
aelkneror, if that's a problem, i could wipe the instance and you could choose a sections file from the demo you just gave18:09
aelkneri just want you to see the textarea come up some how18:09
aelkneri made it 8 rows even if there are only two errors because i figured it should have a consistent size18:10
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aelknerand, ofc, if it has 100 rows, it won't grow18:10
aelknerit'll just have the scroll bar18:11
aelknerof, and i added a generic message to replace the formerly listed error messages18:12
aelknerany change suggestions for that and the style of the textarea?18:12
th1a_Just email me a sheet.18:13
aelknerbetter yet, i just wiped the instance, try any sheet you have around that isn't years_terms so that it fails18:16
aelknerthe sections sheet would be the most likely to have more than eight errors18:17
aelknerth1a, do you have any of the demo sheets handy?18:17
th1a_OK, I have errors.18:17
th1a_How much control do we have over the text in the red box?18:18
aelknerhow do you mean control?  what it says, how it looks?18:18
th1a_What it says.18:19
* th1a_ is just used to being told we can't directly control certain things, much to his chagrin.18:19
aelknerthat won't happen here18:19
aelknerhere's the new logic18:19
aelknerit used to list every error as a separate div, errors are collected from calling the various importers18:20
aelknernow i just moved the logic of displaying the errors to the textare18:20
aelknerthe red div has only one of two errors:18:20
aelkner1) no data provided18:20
aelkner2) ... the following errors:18:20
aelknerwhat i put in the textarea will change to the grouped errors we discussed18:21
aelknerbut i was wondering about your thoughts on the english of message 2)18:21
th1a_OK, so anyhow, we'll need to add more explanatory text at some point, but we won't worry about that yet.18:21
aelknerah, yes, the <p> that would appear below the textarea, right?18:22
th1a_I don't know at this point.18:22
th1a_So this should probably go by sheet.18:22
aelkneryes, i was just about to ask you about that18:22
th1a_A little header for each sheet.18:22
aelkneryou mean a textarea (with h3 before it) for each sheet?18:23
th1a_No just18:23
th1a_School Timetables18:23
th1a_Invalid Usernames in:18:23
th1a_A2, A3, A4, etc.18:23
th1a_A2 - A24618:24
th1a_Use the range.18:24
th1a_And if we knew why they were invalid, even better!18:24
th1a_(that would be a big help)18:24
aelknersome of the messages we have kind of depend on the local context of the cell18:25
aelknerERROR_UNKNOWN_DAY_ID = _("is not defined in the 'Day Templates' section")18:25
aelknerERROR_DUPLICATE_HOMEROOM_PERIOD = _("is the same homeroom period id as another in this day")18:25
aelknerthese messages btw are already translated and released as this18:26
aelknerand you can see that each message assumes that the sheet name, cell start the sentence18:26
th1a_We can add/change those as necessary to make the whole thing work better.18:27
aelknerbasically, we're going to need to throw the old ones out to get the new ones18:27
aelknerit's a different context, so the sentence is different18:28
aelknerbut i'll work it out18:28
aelknerbut your idea about sheets, ----, each error type before a : is what i was thinking, too18:29
aelkneri'll just have to come up with new sentences, and we'll need to have them retranslated18:29
th1a_that's fine18:31
aelknerok, so no problem with the top sentence or css of anything so far?18:32
th1a_aelkner:  I can't really design these things all at once.18:33
th1a_Let's get the text area right and go from there.18:33
aelkneryes, see what it looks like filled in, ok18:33
aelkneri'll let you know when i have the new contents18:34
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replaceafilldo we have an xls with the verso skills?20:33
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th1aOK, I'm here replaceafill.20:48
th1a(had to switch computers again)20:48
replaceafilli just started ;)20:49
th1aOh, this is for can do.20:49
replaceafillonly for cando?20:50
th1aUm… initially.20:50
th1aOr I guess that's a problem isn't it.20:50
th1aOK, we'll try it for everything.20:50
replaceafillok, i also used the gradebook because i dont have an xls with the verso skills20:50
replaceafillwith long titles20:50
replaceafilldo you have one?20:51
th1ano, we can use this.20:51
replaceafillth1a, reload21:09
replaceafillinstead of an actual <select> element21:09
th1a_I think this could work.21:10
replaceafillthe thing with <select>s is that they're pretty hard to style21:10
replaceafilluniformly across browsers21:10
replaceafill(or maybe that has changed lately) :)21:11
th1a_I wasn't literally thinking it needed to be a <select>21:11
replaceafillah good :)21:11
th1a_Can we make the whole area clickable?21:12
replaceafilllet me try21:13
th1a_Welsh likes it aside from the fact that he's confused it isn't actually CanDo.21:17
th1a_It is very difficult to get feedback on one exact change.  ;-)21:18
th1a_What are you doing now replaceafill?21:42
replaceafillmaking the list not to hide when you click the tab :(21:43
replaceafilli found the issue21:43
replaceafilli'm fixing it21:43
replaceafillif you try it now, it displays but hides at the same time21:43
replaceafillalmost done21:43
replaceafillth1a_, i want to start over, there are some things we don't need anymore if we remove the sliders21:54
replaceafilldo you want me to change another thing?21:54
replaceafillbesides the third-nav bar?21:55
th1a_Well, I'd like to play with the info box.21:56
th1a_I still want it to float somehow...21:56
replaceafillah ok21:56
replaceafillwe do need skills for that...21:57
replaceafilli'll use the autism center's21:57
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th1a_Maybe for the sake of prototyping make this a dialog?22:01
th1a_ideally with no title bar.22:01
replaceafillalways teacher00122:03
replaceafilla dialog?22:03
th1a_Or maybe just a floating div is just as easy.22:04
th1a_Can you make the current div float right at the top of the page.22:04
replaceafillbecause you want it moveable?22:04
th1a_Well, not really.22:04
replaceafillhold on22:04
th1a_(not really movable)22:04
th1a_(or maybe)22:04
replaceafillhhmm i can float above the header...22:13
replaceafillthe header has higher z-index than the page/grid area22:14
replaceafillbecause of the shadows...22:14
replaceafillth1a_, can you see it?22:25
replaceafillwe have 3 huge horizontal parts in the page22:27
th1a_It seems to be floating below the header?22:27
replaceafillheader, page, footer22:28
replaceafillheader has higher zindex22:28
replaceafillthan the page22:28
th1a_Can you add another layer?22:28
replaceafilli can move it with JS, but it loses the css22:28
replaceafillit just needs rewiring22:28
replaceafillof the rules22:29
replaceafillth1a_, reload22:37
replaceafillit moved to the left :D22:37
replaceafillth1a_, this would need to be "closable"22:40
replaceafillsince it blocks the tabs22:40
replaceafilllook at how it looks blocking all the tabs :)22:43
* replaceafill goes get lunch, bb in 30 mins22:56
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* replaceafill is back23:40
replaceafillth1a_, did you see the div over the tabs?23:41

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