IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-05-14

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th1ahi yvl.16:00
yvlhi th1a16:05
yvlgot carried away here16:05
yvlgimme 3 mins16:05
yvlso... I'm not sure how to do a proper debriefing16:12
th1aOh, me neither.16:12
th1aHow'd it go?16:12
yvlHelder summed it up quite well16:14
yvlin his email16:15
th1aWhat's the situation with their patches now?16:16
th1aAre they able to get more into a separate egg?16:16
yvlat the moment, patches are not applied16:17
yvlthey wouldn't do anything anyway16:17
th1aOK, so at what point are they now?16:18
th1aHow long does it seem like it will take to get 2.1 ready and pushed?16:18
yvlwe created an egg that works as an app (i.e. with custom skin inherited from flourish) that handles edgebox authorization16:18
yvlth1a, you should really ask Helder these type of questions16:19
yvlit all was pretty techy16:19
th1aYes, but, are they still pretty early in the process?16:19
yvldepends on what "the process" is and what "early" is16:20
* th1a sighs.16:20
yvlone might say... yes?16:20
yvlthey have a lot of resources th1a, and good resources16:20
yvland AFAIR they have the skills to shorten the dev process by pulling more resources if needed16:21
yvlso they already packaged the dependencies, which is a (big) chunk of work16:22
yvlthey made ST running16:22
yvlwe have an egg with example customizations that demonstrates auth (SSO) with edgebox16:22
yvlthey haven't started porting the patches, but most of the patches won't be needed anymore16:23
yvlsince you did a good job with UI16:23
yvlST upgrade may be driving this release of education appliance16:24
yvlor maybe there will be other things, that depends on how things progress on their side16:24
yvlthey also plan to add more reports16:25
yvland either provide us with definition what they want16:26
yvlor implement the actual reports and submit the changes to us16:26
th1aAh, ok.16:27
th1aWe should probably let them know about the impending report styles.16:27
th1aAnd send them that guide.16:27
yvlwhich guide?16:27
th1aWell, the final draft should be done today(ish).16:28
yvlah :D16:28
yvlI thought I missed something16:28
yvlumm, what else...16:28
th1aThe report style guide.  Did you see an earlier draft of it?16:28
yvlsome of our UI quirks are a blocker for them16:28
replaceafillsorry for interrupting16:29
th1areplaceafill beat me to it.16:29
yvlnp, thanks man16:29
yvllike - the relationship views16:29
yvllike - that redirect to the login16:29
yvlsuch things are a WTF in this century ;)16:29
yvl(they were polite enough not to call it this way)16:30
th1aWell, I guess I've never had a sense of what the right way to do the access denied thing.16:30
yvlbut the good thing is that they're going to go through everything with their UI guy16:30
th1aThat's definitely something where I just need to be told what to do.16:31
yvlso they may have some suggestions16:31
th1aWell, it is good that we have it down to a discrete screwed up things rather than a screwed up application.  ;-)16:32
aelkner_morning guys16:32
yvlI couldn't agree more16:32
th1aOn that note... hi replaceafill, aelkner_, menesis.16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:33
th1aOK replaceafill, would you like to start?16:34
replaceafilli have a few questions for today :)16:34
replaceafillyvl, remember when i was trying to do the tabs ajaxy in the gradebook16:34
replaceafillbut i had a problem with the sidebar16:34
replaceafilland you recommended to "update" the sidebar too16:35
replaceafillso, i did that16:35
yvlwow :)16:35
replaceafillcould you log in:16:35
replaceafillas teacher00116:35
replaceafillit's still broken, but the tabs "work" :)16:35
replaceafillif you for example go to the Deployed tab16:35
replaceafillthe sidebar gets updated16:35
replaceafillor Sheet3, etc16:35
replaceafilli still have to create a new view for all of this16:36
replaceafilli actually did, but it's not in this version16:36
replaceafillso, my problem at this point16:36
replaceafillthe Reports section16:36
replaceafillthe viewlet manager for reports uses javascript16:36
replaceafillspecifically the ST.local object16:36
th1areplaceafill,  Is that instance up?16:37
replaceafillth1a, hhmm yes16:37
th1aOr, oh, it is the ERR_UNSAFE_PORT on chromium.16:37
replaceafillth1a, ah crap, maybe it's the port16:37
replaceafillsorry about that16:37
th1aIt is Satan's port.16:37
replaceafillso, if you go to another tab after loading the page16:38
replaceafilland you click "Gradebook Export"16:38
replaceafillinstead of getting the dialog16:38
replaceafillyou get the html for the dialog16:38
replaceafillbecause the two links in the Reports section have not been modified with JS16:38
replaceafillbtw, i'm inserting the sidebar using a plain:16:39
replaceafill<tal:block content="view/providers/page_sidebar" />16:39
replaceafilli'm not sure if i'm clear enough16:39
yvlcan you point me to the code whre you do replace the sidebar?16:40
yvlbecause it should execute the proper JS16:40
yvlunless we do it with document.ready :D16:40
replaceafillah ok, let me paste the diff16:40
yvlthen it probably does not bind :D16:40
replaceafillline 9116:41
replaceafillsorry i haven't pushed this to my branch, but it's just an experiment :)16:41
replaceafillline 15616:42
replaceafillfor the viewlet16:42
yvlhmm, I think the document.ready thing is the problem16:44
replaceafillhhmm i see16:45
yvlwe should use some different event for execute-script-once-dom-is-changed16:45
yvljquery has something I think16:45
yvlor maybe we can use some manual event16:45
yvlyes :D16:45
yvlneed to check16:45
yvlbut probably yes16:46
replaceafillok, i'll try to clean it too, maybe i find the problem then16:46
replaceafilli'll use .on()16:46
replaceafillok, thanks16:46
replaceafillsecond question16:46
replaceafilllet me get the line16:46
replaceafillsince i'm changing stuff and i dont want to break functionality16:47
replaceafilli started adding stests for the gradebook16:47
replaceafillfor the popups specifically16:47
replaceafillsee line 22016:47
replaceafillthe journal is getting included in the test16:48
replaceafilleven though the layer setup (stesting.zcml) doesn't include it explicitly16:48
replaceafillit's the check for journal_present in the gradebook16:49
yvlit's probably including something that includes autoinclude16:49
replaceafilli was blaming that ^16:50
yvlI think it's the zcml condition16:50
yvl"have schooltool.lyceum.journal"16:50
yvlI think that was an oopsy on my part16:51
yvlinstead of proper "provide feature" "has feature"16:51
yvlI suggested using "have module" instead16:51
replaceafillok, no biggie though16:52
replaceafilljust have to be aware of that in stests ;)16:52
yvlcould you fix that please?16:52
yvlsince you're at it anyway16:52
yvlthanks man16:52
* replaceafill checks his notes16:52
replaceafillah yes16:53
replaceafilli worked a little on this one:16:53
yvlbtw, awesome work so far replaceafill16:53
replaceafillyvl, :D16:53
replaceafilli found the cause for the bug, i'm going to fix it in my branch too16:53
replaceafillso i'll take that one16:53
replaceafillyvl, last question16:54
replaceafilli can use that to "detect" when the vielwet has been rendered like in the whole page, correct?16:54
yvlthat's the purpose16:54
replaceafillah cool! that really helps on ajax calls :D16:54
replaceafilland i finally understood the wrapper logic in table ;)16:55
yvlwow :)16:55
yvlcongratulations :D16:55
replaceafilli mean, templates16:55
yvlone can break a leg there :D16:55
replaceafillok, i just wanted to confirm that16:55
yvlwe really should have just rewritten table formatters16:55
yvlwrapping them was a long - but fun - process :)16:56
replaceafillfinally, i started with the report styles16:56
replaceafilli haven't gotten too far though16:56
replaceafilli did check aelkner_'s work on niepa16:56
replaceafillto rotate the text16:56
replaceafillusing plugins16:57
replaceafilli was expecting to have something simpler for us, like:16:57
replaceafill<td rotate="45">...</td>16:57
replaceafillbut i still don't know if that's possible16:57
aelkner_wouldn't it be nice16:57
replaceafillsame for row backgrounds16:57
yvloh yes it would :)16:58
replaceafillsomething like css classes16:58
replaceafill<td class="odd">16:58
yvlwell, it *is* open source, so... ;)))16:58
replaceafillbut it seems really hard to get :(16:58
replaceafillat least at first glance16:58
replaceafillbecause all the calculation you have to do to get a stinky blockspan16:58
replaceafillbut i'll keep looking16:59
replaceafillth1a, i hope to have an example for wednesday on the reports16:59
yvlit is still a big improvement over using plain flowables in python16:59
replaceafillyvl, definitely!16:59
th1aWe can come back to text rotation later.17:00
replaceafilli'm working on the table styles17:01
replaceafillat the moment17:01
* replaceafill done17:01
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:02
aelkner_i thought my email to the developer's list would serve as my report17:02
aelkner_did everyone see it?17:02
yvlcaps lock :D17:03
aelkner_NP :)17:03
yvlit looks you made good progress17:04
* yvl just wonders why you want to make a document object17:04
aelkner_th1a also sent a note on the subject, did you see it?17:04
aelkner_oh, i was assuming you did when i wrote mine, i was kinda leveraging on it17:05
th1aSoup and Documents is the title.17:05
yvloh, that17:06
yvlso the thing I do not understand, is what makes document object so special17:07
yvlif we created a layer "Document"17:07
th1aIt is primarily that it is the way users understand the entire process.17:07
yvllet me finish17:07
yvlif we created a layer "Document"17:07
yvland made sure it is always (again, automatically) the grandparent when creating layers from UI17:08
yvlthe user, when going to node creation17:08
yvl(it's called Document Model or something similar now)17:08
yvlwould always see17:08
yvlwould that make sense?17:09
th1aBasically, yes.17:09
th1aIt would also be nice to have some extra meta-data for it.17:09
aelkner_i think you're saying that the Document layer could be used as the document, right?17:09
th1aAuthor, date.17:09
yvlwell, the Document *node*17:09
th1a(author being the organization creating it)17:09
th1aVersion #.17:10
yvlATM it should be doable by updating title/description17:10
yvlbut true, metadata would be nice17:11
th1aWe could get by without it for now.17:11
th1aSince it won't really DO anything anyhow.17:11
yvlbut I can see uses for those17:11
yvlalso, "demographics" for nodes could make sense17:11
aelkner_ok, but let's talk about the document node for a second17:12
aelkner_what you are saying is that ui allows the user to create a document (what they see themselves as doing)17:12
aelkner_but we, in reality, would create a node17:12
aelkner_and that node would have the layer, 'Document'?17:12
aelkner_actually, i don't even know if i asked that right17:13
aelkner_what i'm really asking is, how does the user tell us what the layers are for the document17:14
yvlwhen user goes to create the layers ttw17:15
yvlwe silently check if there is a "Document" layer17:15
yvlif there is one17:15
yvlwe assign it as parent of the top layer the user entered17:15
yvlif it's not created there, we create it and then assign the top parent17:16
yvlwe can actually even be very nice17:16
yvland if layer with __name__ == 'document' is not created17:16
th1athe other reason we need the document is to know what to call skills and skillsets.17:16
yvlwe can put a text line, so that user could translate the word "Document" in his own language17:16
yvljust put that as extra on the bottom node17:17
yvlnodes :)17:17
yvlbottom layer17:17
yvlsorry for confusion17:18
* yvl done17:19
yvl*kchhh* over *kchhh* :)17:19
aelkner_what does that mean?17:20
th1aI think it would be helpful for the document to know its constituent layers and the desired names for skillset and skill.17:20
th1a(sound effect, aelkner_)17:21
aelkner_like a cash register?17:21
yvllike radio17:21
yvlhand radio17:21
yvlth1a, ok17:21
yvlfrankly, I don't care where you put it17:21
yvland thinking about it... yes, we can create a special node called Document17:22
yvlclass Document(Node)17:22
yvlif you want17:22
aelkner_i was already thing just that17:22
th1aI didn't want to say subclass.  ;-)17:22
aelkner_that Document would subclass node17:23
aelkner_so that the first level of nodes, Courses in the case of the demo, would have it as parent17:23
aelkner_right now, in the demo, they are all orphaned17:23
aelkner_nodes are all over the place, having various levels17:24
aelkner_but the user shouldn't have to think about them17:24
aelkner_only the documents17:24
aelkner_so we would need to have a way for the user to find them17:24
th1aWell, it is just a Documents view.17:25
aelkner_also, if the Document object subclasses Node, where does it live?17:25
aelkner_in the NodesContainer?17:25
aelkner_or do we create a DocumentsContainer?17:25
th1aaelkner_:  You and I can talk about how the Document ui should work.17:25
yvlin the NodesContainer17:25
th1aCan we talk about moving things out of years?17:25
yvllet's just move them out of years17:26
aelkner_we can all agree on doing that, and luckily we don't have to write evolution17:27
aelkner_because we don't have any beta testers yet17:27
aelkner_only thing is, how does the year know what document to use?17:28
aelkner_i mean, as i suggested in my note, when the user is assigning skillsets to courses17:28
aelkner_how do we know what document to use to serve them up the choices?17:29
th1aThere could be multiple documents per year anyhow.17:29
aelkner_how would that work?17:30
th1aThey'll just have to choose.17:30
yvlI think either we serve all, either we implement hiding, either we implement fake "deployment" to years17:30
aelkner_oh, ok, at the root level of the choice process, they would see the multiple documents17:30
yvlit's really up to th1a or a coin flip at this point17:30
th1aJust choosing from a menu of some sort is fine.17:31
th1aTypically a regular school will have different standards documents for different subjects.17:31
th1aSo I guess in the long run we'll do it that way.17:31
th1aOnce we have subjects...17:31
yvloh, /me remembered one thing I'd like to put on the table before the end of the meeting17:33
yvlplease continue17:34
aelkner_ok, so, we have decided that no new Document object is really needed, just a document layer17:34
aelkner_and any number of nodes for that layer17:34
aelkner_each of which would be its own document17:34
aelkner_actually, no17:35
aelkner_i'm still confused about something17:35
aelkner_we have theses layers17:35
th1aAre'nt we making a document subclass?17:35
aelkner_and they are capable of having parents17:35
aelkner_but there are any number of paths through the layers17:35
aelkner_so, for instance, in the case of the demo17:35
aelkner_course layer has child, competency group17:36
aelkner_the fact that it has no parent is problematic presently, but we could make the parent17:36
aelkner_be the document layer17:36
aelkner_so the document layer could be our root layer17:37
aelkner_and each of its children would represent a pathway though17:37
aelkner_for instance:17:37
aelkner_document ->17:37
aelkner_        Course ->17:37
aelkner_                       Competency Group17:37
aelkner_             Something other path17:38
aelkner_                       and its child17:38
yvlwell yes, the example will have to be remade17:38
aelkner_so Course and Some other path would be the two document types17:38
yvleach document node is like a version of the document17:38
yvlyou can make titles like17:38
yvl"Standards v1.2"17:38
yvl"Standards 2012"17:38
yvland so on17:38
yvlso the layer is called "Document"17:39
yvland it's nodes will be actual documents17:39
th1aDocuments define a set of nodes in a stricter structure than is required by the data model in general.17:41
yvlwell, no17:41
yvlthe UI defines that17:41
yvlto be precise17:41
th1aWell, the importer will have to as well, soonish.17:41
th1aYou'll have to be able to import a document.17:42
yvlyou can now17:42
th1aIt should be easy enough to force it to be a tree.17:42
yvlif the importer works, you can import a document now17:42
th1aWell, what I'M saying is that a document has to have a more limited data model, that's the point.17:43
yvlso... you want several importer formats?17:43
yvlwell anyway17:43
yvlit's not my place to ask17:44
th1aI don't want that per se but it might be necessary.17:44
th1aAlso, it might be what 95% of our users would prefer anyhow.17:44
th1aAgain, the CTE case is extreme it its complexity.17:44
th1aNot necessarily the best for everyone else.17:44
th1aBut I haven't thought about the importer format at all yet.17:45
aelkner_we can deal with that when the time comes17:46
aelkner_i'm not worried about special imports yet17:46
aelkner_better that we are sure about the data model and how we are using it first17:46
th1aI'm sure we'll come up with something.17:46
th1aaelkner_:  The most important thing is to think of this from the point of view of the school secretary sitting in front of their computer holding a book full of standards.17:47
th1aHow are they going to type this shit in?17:47
aelkner_either ttw or via import, right?17:47
aelkner_which one are you asking about?17:48
aelkner_ok, ttw, then17:48
th1aAnd if you say the word "node" or "layer" their brain will explode.17:49
aelkner_sorry, i need a five minute break, can we continue in 5?17:49
th1aActually, how about after lunch.17:50
aelkner_ok, but i still am not sure what yvl meant with the layers, so i'll need to ask17:50
aelkner_back in 517:50
th1ayvl: What are your plans for this week?17:51
yvlfor the rest of the week...17:51
yvlto look at IRC logs, find what you asked me to start working on17:51
yvland start working on it :)17:52
th1aScore history.17:52
th1aThat's it.17:52
yvlhow much of that you want me to implement?17:52
yvldata model17:52
yvlor some UI too?17:52
yvland if yes, how much? :)17:52
th1aThe UI pretty quickly overlaps with the gradebook.17:53
th1aThat is, there shouldn't be much UI outside that.17:53
th1a(and reports)17:54
replaceafillwe would only need to change the gradebook class, right?17:54
th1aSo you and replaceafill and I will need to discuss that.17:54
replaceafillto change evaluations17:54
th1aWe just need views that let you drill down to the history.17:54
th1ayvl:  I'd say make a really, really simple view of some sort that works for testing.17:55
th1aAnd then we'll talk about the real implementation.17:55
replaceafilland dont forget scoresystems ;)17:55
* replaceafill really hates working with them :(17:55
th1aThat's next, yvl.17:55
th1ahistory, unfucking score systems.17:55
yvlok, this we'll need to chat about a little17:56
th1ascore systems?17:56
th1aWell, that's next week (if things go well)17:56
yvlI don't remember the scope of the problem17:56
yvldoes it include the fact that it is only possible to use "point evaluation" in gradebook?17:57
th1aIf replaceafill doesn't know, probably nobody does.17:57
* replaceafill would be happy with just having properties for scores, instead of scores[0][2]17:57
th1aAll I ever knew was that something was fucked.17:57
replaceafilli don't remember that part17:57
replaceafill(the point evaluation part)17:58
th1aI don't remember that either.17:58
yvlthe scores you can enter in gradebook17:58
yvlcan you enter F ?17:58
* aelkner_ is back17:58
replaceafillfor the letter score systems yes17:58
th1aNot for a regular scoresheet.17:59
th1aNor is it desirable.17:59
th1aI thought there was some kind of "data model issue."17:59
yvlfrankly, I do not remember now18:00
yvlI'll have to look at the code again18:00
th1aThen just do whatever replaceafill asks for.18:00
replaceafillah, you mean a regular activity having letter scores18:00
replaceafillnow i understand yvl :)18:00
replaceafillyes, for the moment is only possible with deployed sheets18:01
yvlI actually start to worry about messing with those18:01
replaceafillsame with comment scores18:01
yvlyou obviously have some user requirements that are beyond my understanding of what a gradebook and a grade is18:01
yvland external activities also use "point score system" for some reason18:03
th1aThe entire premise of the gradebook is that it is based on points.18:03
th1aThat essentially defines it.18:03
yvlwe can really skip the unfucking the scoresystems part18:04
yvlas long as I don't have to work with gradebook, I don't mind :)18:04
yvland I'll repeat once again18:04
th1aWell, if replaceafill has scoresystem requests, he should make them this week.18:04
th1aI added that task because there seemed to be a consensus that there was something fucked about score systems.18:05
yvland I really can't see what was done on purpose for some reason and what was f'd18:05
aelkner_it had to do with the pythn classes18:05
aelkner_the fact that the views had to do silly computations and look at attributes18:06
aelkner_where i think you wanted to make some methods that cleaned things up a bit18:06
aelkner_and perhaps also, change the underlying attributes18:06
aelkner_but that's all i remember18:06
replaceafillok, i have one18:06
replaceafillin a extended letter score system18:06
replaceafillis A+ lower or higher than B-18:07
replaceafillask the score system :/18:07
aelkner_yeah, things like that18:07
aelkner_but yvl, it would only take looking at them and the gradebook to remind yourself what you meant18:07
replaceafillthank God i recorded some:
th1aWell, I'm sure you two can come up with your wishlist this week.18:08
th1aI'm not going to make yvl go looking for it.18:08
yvlbtw, how can one grade a comment score system?18:08
th1aIn what sense?18:08
replaceafillscore activity18:08
replaceafillor student18:08
th1aIt is just a comment.18:08
yvlhow can I enter the value18:09
yvlbecause I can't18:09
replaceafillscore the student18:09
replaceafillclick student name, score18:09
th1aWe should have a dialog come up when you click the cell though.18:09
yvlthat's the trick18:09
th1aOr at least a menu.18:09
th1aThere is pretty much an infinite list of gradebook refinements.18:10
yvland is there a reason why deployed worksheets can have activities with score systems18:10
yvlbut normal ones cannot?18:10
yvlso if you have 1-10 score system in Lithuania18:10
th1aBecause you need to enter gradebook grades in a scoresheet.18:10
th1aI mean, in a report sheet.18:11
th1aBasically, we just don't really want to have to do a ton of calculations with letter grades.18:11
th1aIt is stupid and who knows how it is really supposed to work?18:11
th1aWe may do it someday.18:12
th1aBut, ug.18:12
yvlah, now I remembered what was making me sick ;)18:12
th1aWhat is "B" plus "S-" ?18:12
yvlbut ok, we won't do that this time18:12
* replaceafill is curious18:13
replaceafillyvl, what was it?18:13
yvlnevermind :)18:13
aelkner_no, please, what was it?18:13
yvlthe whole thing should be implemented thinking about activities like simplified excell sheet cells18:14
yvlso you have a cell, a data type, and a formula18:14
yvlif there is a rule that defines what "B" plus "S-" is, the call can have a value18:14
yvlif there is no such rule, the cell cannot has a value18:15
yvlit's like asking18:15
yvlin excell18:15
yvlwhat is "2 + Tuesday" ?18:15
yvlwell it is an error, that's what :D18:15
yvlbut that does not mean that you cannot multiply, say 80 by 150%18:15
th1aThis is just something I don't want to get into now (which is why yvl said "nevermind").18:16
aelkner_i was just curious18:16
yvland I really wanted a simplified version of that, so that we could pile on it later18:16
yvlbut nevermind ;)18:17
th1aWell, I'm ok with a little data model cleanup now.18:17
yvlit would be good if th1a thought about following use case a little:18:18
yvlsay, we're importing external activities from Moodle, or something else18:18
yvlhow would this work from user's perspective?18:19
th1aIn what sense?18:19
yvlwhat will happen, if the score is "F" in Moodle (or some other LMS)18:19
yvlstep by step18:19
yvlhow does the user add/deploy/conjure an external activity18:19
th1aWe currently require a % and a point value.18:20
th1aI believe.18:20
yvlso, just convert "F" to a %18:20
yvland then use the % * point value18:20
th1aI think the point value is set on our end and we expect a % score.18:20
yvlaverage those18:20
replaceafillth1a, correct18:20
yvland convert back to "F" in deployed18:20
yvlthe user will never see F, if he adds a score from Moodle?18:21
yvlinstead of F he will see 10 (or 1, depending on configuration)18:21
th1aATM, Moodle would have to send us a % value, and it would show up as a point value in our gradebook.18:22
yvlso that is the intended behaviour18:22
yvlwhatever the users enter in other systems18:23
th1aThe sheet as a whole can convert the average to a letter grade.18:23
yvlso, users can enter grade F in a deployed sheet18:23
th1aWell, here's the thing -- our gradebook is the one that has to do the math to integrate the Moodle score with other grades, so I really prefer to have the math be transparent.18:23
yvlbut can not see F imported from Moodle18:23
yvlbecause we chose to restrict that18:24
yvleven if you can deploy a report sheet18:24
yvland can enter grades like F18:24
yvlyou cannot see an F imported from external activities18:24
th1aOur role here is to integrate the scores and make clear mathematical calculations based on them.18:24
yvlI just wanted to be sure18:25
th1aThey already know they gave the kid an "F" in Moodle.18:25
yvlbecause it does sound weird to me18:25
th1aIn the end, we may have to change it, but I don't want to do a ton of non-mathematical math.18:25
yvlI'm ok with this :)18:26
aelkner_non-mathmatical math, interesting concept :)18:26
th1aTeacher's gradebooks are not bound by the rules of mathematics.18:26
yvlshould they be?18:27
th1aIf we want to maintain our sanity, yes.18:27
th1aNon-mathematical math requires a paid support contract.  ;-)18:27
th1a(literally, actually)18:28
yvlit still kills me that one can enter F for reporting, but cannot import it from external systems18:29
yvlkind of defeats the purpose18:29
yvlso, I'll work on score history and on something that replaceafill and aelkner_ asks me to18:30
th1aOne issue is that "F" represents a range of values but ultimately has to be expressed as a single value.18:30
yvlthen why do you allow the user to enter it?18:30
yvlif you have an issue with that?18:30
th1aIn the end, you convert to a grade.18:31
yvlin a deployed worksheet?18:31
yvlsorry guys, this just does not compute for me18:31
th1aAlso, the point value of a letter grade may be in an entirely different range as its input value.18:31
yvlI can see a worksheet, write an F in it18:31
yvlbut I cannot import an F in it18:31
yvlI have to manually look at Moodle18:32
yvland write an F in it18:32
th1aIn the US, an "A" represents 90% to 100% (for example), but if you do a calculation with it, it is worth "4"18:32
yvlread what I wrote18:32
yvlyou don't see a problem with a fact that users can enter an F in a cell, but cannot import an F in a cell?18:33
th1aThe deployed report sheet is for the purpose of creating reports.18:33
yvlyou don't see a problem with a fact that users can enter an F in a cell, but cannot import an F in a cell, for the purpose of reports?18:33
th1aI think what you are asking for is a new feature of report sheets.18:33
th1aNot of worksheets.18:33
yvlwell, anyway18:34
th1aOK, yes, that is a different and more complicated feature.18:34
yvlif you say so18:35
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yvlsorry, I'll stop trolling now18:35
th1aThe question would be whether you expect to do this Moodle import on ALL the relevant users automatically (more complicated) or have individual users link their report sheets to an external source manually.18:36
th1a(also probably with complications)18:36
th1aOK.  I'm talked out.18:37
* th1a is kind of assuming menesis doesn't have much to report...18:38
yvlreally, I do appreciate you explaining me this18:38
th1aI'm happy to.18:38
menesisth1a: true18:38
th1aOK then.18:39
th1aSee you guys Wednesday.18:39
yvlthanks guys18:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:39
replaceafillthanks everybody18:39
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replaceafillin /sections why don't we call the Size column "Students"?20:03
th1aWe should!20:15
replaceafillwill do :)20:15
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th1aaelkner_: ayt?22:02
th1aOK, so where are we?22:04
aelkner_well, you know, there was a lot said today on a lot of subjects22:05
aelkner_i don't think the whole document node thing was fully defined22:05
aelkner_i mean, i was hoping that we would agree that a document object would tell22:06
aelkner_us what the levels are, but the way yvl said it, we would have a document node that had a document level22:06
aelkner_but which levels came after was not clear to me, or how the user would specify them22:07
th1aBasically I feel like yvl has no huge objections and we can plow ahead.22:08
aelkner_you mean, just do it whatever way we see as reasonable, right?22:08
aelkner_ok, well, the first thing i want to do to the code is move levels and nodes out of years22:09
aelkner_that, in itself, will take a couple days, and then i could think about how to do the document in the meantime22:09
aelkner_but if you want to discuss the ui for documents now, we could certainly do a little prep there22:10
aelkner_it might help me in my thinking about documents in the model22:10
th1aThe main thing is we just need a form that lets you add an arbitrary number of levels and give them names.22:10
aelkner_an ordered list on the form denoting the hierarchy, right?22:11
aelkner_how does the user call up the form, we are to support more than one, what's the ui for that?22:12
th1aThere will be a Skills Documents container.22:12
th1aYou'll get there from the customize sidebar.22:12
aelkner_from the School tab22:12
aelkner_ah, the sidebar22:13
aelkner_next to report sheet templates, right?22:13
th1aPretty much.22:13
th1aThat whole view may need a refresh soon.22:13
th1aBut in the meantime, put it there.22:13
aelkner_what whole view, the School tab?22:13
aelkner_ah, i see22:14
aelkner_ok, but yeah, that seems like the place for now22:14
aelkner_then we would 'deploy' a document to the school year as yvl had suggested, kinda what i was saying last year22:15
aelkner_same as the way we deploy report sheets22:15
aelkner_last week, not last year22:15
th1aI don't understand why that is necessary in any way.22:16
aelkner_oh, ok, perhpas you have something else in mind22:16
th1aBesides keeping the list of available documents short, but that's not an immediate problem.22:16
th1aEventually you  *might* have a bunch of obselete skills documents, but that's very much a long term issue.22:17
aelkner_so, regardless of year, when the user is interested in finding a skillset to assign to a course22:18
aelkner_they will be offered up the global document list to choose from22:18
aelkner_is that what you are saying?22:18
aelkner_i mean, if there is only one document, we could start them out at the root of that document22:20
aelkner_but if there are more than one, they would need to choose22:20
th1aI guess, tbh we don't really know what that interface looks like at all, right?22:21
aelkner_that's why i'm bringing it up now, to plan how it would look22:22
aelkner_to point is:22:22
aelkner_as with report sheets templates, you create them in one place, use them in another22:22
aelkner_it kinda goes hand in hand22:23
th1aIt will probably be determined by the design of replaceafill's awesome skills browser task, coming soon.22:23
aelkner_ah, ok, he will handle it when the time comes wth his task, i won't worry about it22:23
aelkner_i can just make sure we have the global templates (so to speak)22:23
aelkner_ok, sounds good22:24
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