IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2012-05-11

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replaceafillmenesis, the hexes.svg file is missing in the .tar.gz from LP17:21
replaceafillmaybe we need to include *.svg in
menesisoh, really17:22
menesisconsequently missing in the deb package17:22
menesisreplaceafill: yes, ass *.svg17:22
replaceafillkk, will do17:22
replaceafillis there anyway to create the tar.gz from a dev sandbox?17:24
replaceafilli mean, to test if the hexes.svg file gets included?17:24
replaceafillah, make release :)17:27
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eeinunder actions there is no test email just pack database.  i just enabled email17:48
th1aeein: On what page?  What version of SchoolTool do you have?17:50
eeinahh nm there is an actions within the email section17:50
eeini hit done which took me out of the email section17:51
th1aI see.17:52
eeinemail isnt going, does that show in /var/log/maillog?17:59
eeinany logs i can read to determine why?17:59
th1aI doubt it.  SchoolTool is just a client.17:59
th1aI mean, I doubt it is in the log.17:59
th1aIs there anything in the queue?18:00
th1aThat is, in SchoolTool's mail queue?18:01
eeini just logged in to the email addresses webmail so the account is active and working18:02
th1aSo the messages are stuck in the queue?18:02
eeinI removed the account from schooltool but no change18:03
th1aI would think Zope is logging the changes.18:03
th1a(we're getting beyond my understanding)18:03
th1areplaceafill: ayt?18:03
th1aDo you have any clue about this?18:03
replaceafilleein, can you check the stuck message? i remember it has a "reason" for the failure18:04
* replaceafill goes check the exact name of the field :)18:04
th1aWhere is the stuck message?  In the queue?18:04
eeinhmmm host -t MX isnt resolving on the server so thats probably why :-)  not sure why not but let me see what i can find18:05
replaceafillbtw, the field is called Status in the email view18:05
replaceafilleein, ok18:05
eeinhmm i forget where is the resolv done on ubuntu18:06
eeinnormally i would do /etc/resolve.conf18:06
eeinnm found it just not familiar with ubuntu server18:23
eeinsorry this isnt going well for me, im trying to import users in the teacher group and get lastname_f is not a valid username19:17
eeindo i have to make a contact first?19:18
replaceafilleein, are you using the csv importer for that?19:34
replaceafillmaybe you have a header row in your csv file?19:34
eeinno, i also tried just pasting in the text19:35
eeinmy desktop currently is windows so maybe its putting in a newline or something19:35
eeini can try it with a linux mint one19:35
replaceafillthe first column in your csv file should match /persons/username19:36
eeinreplaceafill, do they need to be done in people before a group?19:36
replaceafillyou can only import "existing" people19:37
replaceafillinto groups19:37
eeinthats what i thought (first thought contacts but then found people) but since i need to add the whole school first i am cleaing up that csv that contains everyone19:38
eeinjust a thought but what makes it kinda confusing is when you click School and get the Your School page they groups look like hyperlinks but Poeple doesnt, at least not on my monitor19:39
replaceafillbasically the "Import Members CSV" option only needs usernames in each row19:39
eeinreplaceafill, ^19:39
eeini dont know if its just the text or what or maybe that groups displays a count19:40
eeinPeople does too but its written below rather than a count like a table19:41
eeincould just be me but my brain saw groups and i clicked on it, maybe if the error had a gentle nudge like "did you add these people already" with a hyperlink19:42
eeinbringing you to the people section19:42
eeinso if you did it wrong you know more clearly why19:43
eeinhmm is there a way to mass delete users?20:18
replaceafilleein, no :(20:19
eeinso what do you do at the end of a year with students?20:19
eeinprobably about 200 kids per grade for me20:19
th1aJust don't add them to the student group for the next year.20:20
th1aAlso we are going to be adding enrollment statuses, so you'll be able to mark them as "graduated" etc.20:21
th1aIt is one of the remaining big features on the list.20:21
eeini was likely to leave them in, one question is there a way to have a disapline feature like 3 lates to class auto assigns a detention20:21
th1aI think we should probably get rid of the csv import and make people use the .xls, because frankly we're not really staying on top of supporting the old csv import.20:22
th1aeein:  No, nothing like that at this point.20:22
eeinth1a, is it complicated for me to make my own features?20:22
th1aUnfortunately, yes.20:23
th1aThat's really been the biggest failing of the project -- the code is just very difficult to get into.20:23
eeinwhat about medical records like allergens20:24
eeinkeeping track of school nurse visits etc20:25
th1aYou have a lot of flexibility to create "demographic" fields.20:26
eeinbut are these fields visable to all groups?20:26
eeinok i havent gotten that far yet :-) still trying to clean up a user list20:27
th1aNo problem.  Where are you erin?20:28
th1aI'm in Providence, RI.  replaceafill is in El Salvador.20:28
eeinthis looks exciting, i think it could be a great solution, keeping track of displinary action would be a great feature though, i would be happy to try and help20:29
eeinwhat is the code in?20:30
th1aIt is Python, which is generally easy, but the framework is Zope 3, which is both arcane and unpopular.20:30
replaceafilldemographics are visible to all groups if you don't "limit" them20:30
th1aotoh, it works pretty well.20:30
th1aPeople aren't visible to all groups at all by default.20:30
eeini spelt it wrong20:31
eeinoh nm :-)20:31
replaceafillth1a, i mean, if you create a demo field and you don't limit it, you can set the value for any person20:31
eeinill have to look at Zope 320:32
th1aI think erin is asking about access control.20:32
eeinyes, i may not want every teacher to know of a students medical issues but i would like pertinant staff to know20:33
replaceafillah, got it20:33
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th1aBasically, access to information about an individual student is limited to administrative groups and teachers who have the student in a section.20:34
th1aSo it isn't appropriate for things that NO teacher should see.20:34
th1a(at this point)20:35
eeinit would be nice if "fields" could have access control so the administrators can assign and deny as needed20:36
th1aYes.  It becomes overwhelming though.20:37
eeindoes it?20:37
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th1aWe had super-granular permissions at first, and then even trying to explain how they work to non-technical users becomes hopeless.20:38
eeini guess the "best" way without knowing how things are constructed is to have a template page that permissions are set on, then all students fields have that control20:38
th1aI'd say we'd have to think about how to map it to how users are thinking of the exact sort of problem they're trying to solve.20:39
eein...maybe an all access by default...while not a great security measure as most often its deny by default it does get past the "i'm not going to use that feature" hurdle20:41
th1aFor primary and secondary schools we have to be very limited by default.20:42
eeinyes i am looking at this for secondary20:43
eeinis assinging fields by group a difficult thing? i would think this a pretty straight forward thing20:44
th1aAssigning fields to only show up for people in particular groups?  Or for access control?20:45
th1aI'm trying not to get the issues confused...20:45
th1aWe recently added the ability to make certain fields only show up for people in the student and teacher groups.20:46
eeinwell i guess im thinking of both, i imagine in my mind selecting a field then having a way to add the group, once added on the right a dropdown that grants access read and or write20:47
th1aIt is certainly doable, but it isn't something that would be particularly quick and easy.20:49
th1aIt wouldn't be a good place to start with SchoolTool.  ;-)20:49
eeinso say the nurse get read access to the parents phone numbers field, the administration and front office have read and write  but other groups do not need this info so it does not show20:50
th1aBasically at this point "other groups" can't really see anything at all about a student anyhow.20:51
eeinlike teachers20:51
th1aNot ALL teachers.20:51
th1aTeachers with a relationship can see details about the student.20:51
eeinyou mean teachers that have a student assigned to them20:51
eeina scheduled class20:52
th1aBasically.  Also those with an advisor relationship.20:52
th1aThe case we can't handle now is just the "medical info that should ONLY be available to the nurse and maybe the school administration" one.20:53
eeinand what about grades, do advisor teachers see a students grades20:53
eeinnot just the teacher of the student20:53
th1aWell, you should refer to
th1aI can't remember offhand.20:54
th1aDefinitely feedback on the default settings and what should be changeable is welcome.20:55
eeinnp well i would love to help the project any way i can20:55
th1aWe appreciate it.20:55
eeinthe one thing i did see was possibly giving a better error for adding users by skipping to groups before people are added20:57
th1aThat makes sense.20:58
eeinthe highighted table column names Group and Members drew my eye to that section and i missed People20:59
eeini looked at it and said "yeah i want to add teachers" :-)20:59
th1aI see.21:00
eeinth1a, one more access question, is it possible to have a sub give attendance for a class without access to the grades?21:01
eeinor is attendance not a feature?21:02
th1aWell, substitute teachers are not yet a feature, that's the problem.21:03
th1aYou can take attendance.  It may be too basic for a US school at this point though.21:03
th1aBasically you're bringing up all the points for the next year and a half of development.21:03
eeinwell i'm looking at Zope 3, i know a little python and  i would love to give some of my time to make those things happen21:07
th1aWe'd certainly be happy to have you contribute.21:07
* th1a is just a little beaten down by the number of people who've not made it over the Zope 3 learning curve.21:08
th1aIt is a bit like the EVE learning curve:
th1aNot to be discouraging...21:08
eeinwell better than emacs21:10
eeinth1a, what is the homeroom functionality that is not working?21:40
th1aBasically it would make the attendance for that period set the attendance for the day.21:53
eeinah but you can have a kid absent for a period though21:53
eeinlike if they cut class21:54
th1aWell, if you cut homeroom you're going to be marked absent for the day.21:54
th1aThat's pretty much how homeroom works.21:54
th1aOf course, then there a whole workflow of dealing with the kid arriving at school later, etc.21:55
th1aWhich doesn't exist.21:55
th1aSo it is just a placeholder.21:55
* replaceafill is glad he created README.selenium.txt :)22:36
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