IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2012-01-30

*** ignas_ has joined #schooltool02:00
*** alga has quit IRC02:09
*** ignas_ has quit IRC02:32
*** aks has joined #schooltool04:52
*** aks has quit IRC05:09
*** aks has joined #schooltool05:09
*** yvl has joined #schooltool10:00
*** aelkner has quit IRC10:40
*** Khalsa has quit IRC10:40
*** Khalsa has joined #schooltool10:41
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool10:52
*** alga has joined #schooltool12:03
*** ignas_ has joined #schooltool13:25
*** ignas_ has quit IRC13:44
*** ignas_ has joined #schooltool14:34
*** menesis has joined #schooltool14:45
*** menesis has quit IRC14:46
*** aks has quit IRC15:58
*** hjbehling has joined #schooltool16:08
hjbehlinghi, is the CAS module still being actively developed? (or are there other attempts to make schooltool auth plugable into other systems ldap, etc?)16:10
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool16:17
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool16:19
yvlhey hjbehling16:20
hjbehlingyvl: hi!16:20
yvlat the moment CAS module is not dev focus16:20
hjbehlingare there plans for pluggable auth?16:20
yvlbut it should work, as well as ldap16:20
hjbehlingldap auth is available?16:21
yvlthere are plans to bring those up-to-date, but not immediate ones16:21
yvlldap auth *should* work16:21
yvlthough we haven't tested it for a while16:21
hjbehlingare there directions anywhere?16:21
hjbehlingis LDAP auth built-in or do I need to download a plugin16:22
hjbehlingI'd actually prefer to do LDAP authbut I would be willing to do CAS in order to integrate schooltool into my SSO environment16:22
yvlit's not built in, and I'm afraid not documented as well16:23
* yvl is trying to remember the status...16:23
yvlactually, we're having the annual ST sprint next week16:24
yvlI'll bring this up, if it's ok16:24
*** aks has joined #schooltool16:26
hjbehlingthat would be awesome16:27
hjbehlingi'll take a look at this plugin and see if i can get it to work16:27
yvlok, so here's this
hjbehlingi tested the CAS plugin a while ago (with jasigCAS) and there was a small bug involving the site identification string that ST sent to CAS16:28
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:28
hjbehlingI was going to try to modify the code but I didn't have time16:28
hjbehlingbut I'd really like to get ST running for our equipment checkout so I'm going to make time to focus on it again16:29
* th1a notices his xchat was disconnected for some reason...16:29
yvlso... you downloaded CAS and put a slug, right?16:29
yvlyou could try doing a similar thing with LDAP16:30
th1ahjbehling:  The extent to which CAS and LDAP are a priority is directly proportional to the number of people who ask about it.16:30
hjbehlingcool, i'll try it16:30
th1ahjbehling:  Do you use something for SSO now?16:31
hjbehlingth1a: gotcha16:31
yvloptions are listed in README and the mail to schooltool-developers16:31
yvlhope it helps16:34
hjbehlingth1a: we have a working kerberos+ldap SSO for webmail and system logins16:34
hjbehlingi've used apache2-mod-auth-kerb for a small number of sites16:34
* th1a is trying to remember what kerberos would do for us...16:34
th1aWhere "remember" means checking wikipedia...16:34
hjbehlingkerberos can be used as a backend to CAS, or LDAP16:34
th1aThe thing about this stuff is the standards tend to be not quite standard enough.16:35
yvlwell, LDAP is quite widely used, IMHO16:35
th1aSo it is the kind of thing that it is hard to provide free support for.16:35
yvlbut I might be very wrong :)16:35
th1aI'm not saying they aren't widely used.16:35
th1aJust that at least 10 years ago, certain LDAP's didn't work together in certain configurations.16:36
hjbehlingright, it seems like the most popular is for apps to support Active Directory Auth, which usually means they support LDAP auth16:36
th1aIt just makes it hard for us to support remotely.16:36
hjbehlingand if you can check passwords in LDAP, you can have LDAP check passwords in Kerberos... which sounds really convoluted but imo worth it16:37
th1aSo at this point our CAS and LDAP "work" but the overall situation discourages me from trying to completely polish and promote them, since I don't have a lot of faith that they'd ever work without often requiring site-specific tweaks to setups we don't know about or understand..16:38
th1aHowever, we should help people who are serious about SchoolTool use them.16:38
hjbehlingcool. well i'll try out the ldap plugin and see where it gets me16:39
th1aOK.  Don't hesitate to ask when you get stuck.16:39
th1aThis is the kind of thing our developers should offer as paid support.  ;-)16:39
hjbehlingfrom what i remember the CAS plugin was really close to working but it wasn't adding a forward slash to the FQDN of the refering site (or was adding the forward slash) and that was stopping me from getting it going16:39
hjbehlingalthough if LDAP works then CAS is one less thing I have to worry about16:40
th1aThat's what I'd say.16:40
th1aActually, one reason I liked pushing CAS is it makes the support easier for us.16:40
hjbehlingjasigCAS is a serious pain... and i wasn't able to get anywhere with rubyCAS16:40
th1aThere are just a couple CAS servers we have to talk to instead of myriad LDAP setups.16:41
th1aOn the other hand, if CAS doesn't work, it is a bad idea.16:41
hjbehlingdo you use java or rubycas?16:41
th1aYou know, the one site we really used CAS with actually ended up writing their own in PHP!16:41
th1aSo that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.16:41
th1aI guess the bottom line is if you aren't using it for anything else, don't worry about it.16:42
th1aIt would probably be easier to add kerberos support to SchoolTool (I'm guessing).16:42
hjbehlingyeah i'm just not comfortable working in java/tomcat16:42
* yvl too :D16:42
hjbehlingtoo much messy configuration, poor debuging16:43
th1aI should probably not encourage CAS at this point.16:43
hjbehlingi wish there was a cas server in python16:43
hjbehlingthen i might have a fighting chance16:43
th1aIt doesn't seem like it has gotten critical mass as a standard.16:44
th1aWhen I started this kind of work I was really excited about being a good citizen and supporting open standards whenever possible.16:45
th1aUnfortunately, it is almost always a waste of time and money.16:45
th1aExcept for a few key (and usually simple) things.16:45
hjbehlingmaybe that's a good thing.. :) it would be great though if there was  something out there that would work like it does in theory.. but ldap seems to fit the bill pretty well16:46
th1aOK, hjbehling, this is actually our developer meeting time, so I probably should start that.16:46
th1aNo problem.16:46
th1ahi yvl, aelkner, replaceafill.16:46
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:46
yvlgood morning guys :)16:47
th1ayvl:  Did you send the links about the ajax lists to aelkner & replaceafill?16:48
yvlumm, no16:50
yvland edit members link there:
th1aSo here's my feeling right now.16:51
yvlit su***! :D16:51
th1aI don't think this works as an evolution of the current view.16:51
* yvl does not object16:52
th1aI would pause to note that changing this view in the first place was all my idea, so all this is on me.16:52
th1aBasically, we need to spend an afternoon at the white board in Arlington re-thinking these views from scratch.16:53
th1aIn particular whether or not the add/delete/edit view needs to be the main view for a group.16:53
th1aOr, I guess it isn't.16:54
th1aBut what that relationship should be.16:54
th1aThat is, we should start with the group view and define how the edit views work in relationship a little more clearly.16:56
th1aMaybe use an accordion on the main group view, etc.16:56
th1aOr some other js widgetry.16:57
* yvl can't imagine what an accordion could do there, but - sure16:57
th1aI'm just brainstorming.  We can do this next week.16:58
th1aOne question, yvl:  it doesn't work to have two dynamic lists where you can delete above and add below, right?16:58
yvlit's a bit tricky16:59
th1aBut if you couldn't delete from the current list, could you (fairly easily) have dynamic adding?16:59
yvlmostly from the user experience part16:59
th1aThat is, if you had an ajax add view and ajax delete view?16:59
th1aBut don't try to do them both at once, is that easier?16:59
yvlfrankly, I'd like to have some grouping behaviour17:00
yvlbut let's chat live17:00
yvlit'll be faster17:00
yvlin any case17:00
th1aNow is a good time to stop.  ;-)17:00
th1aWhat do you want to do the rest of the week?17:00
yvlit would help a lot if you guys thought a bit how you imagine that view to work17:01
yvlnow that's a good question, th1a17:01
th1aYes, I'm thinking.17:01
yvlthanks! :)17:01
replaceafillcould i request selenium work?17:01
replaceafilli mean, for yvl :)17:01
* yvl does not have a fast PC at hand17:02
yvlmine broke last month17:02
replaceafillyvl, do tests pass in a slow pc?17:02
yvlbut I can look at it anyway17:02
yvlbtw, I spent most of today looking at Django VS Pyramid17:03
yvljust something I'll bring up at the sprint17:03
yvlno need to make a decision, just to think about it a bit17:03
yvlok... so I'll look at Selenium17:04
yvlwhat else...17:05
yvlcan I take a short look at CanDo?17:05
th1aWe need to triage what is worth salvaging and what should just be re-written.17:06
th1aThat'll be a major topic of conversation.17:06
yvlmy thoughts exactly17:06
yvlok, if I run out of things to do, I can always get to fixing bugs17:06
th1aThe biggest design question is how to store each evaluation of a competency.17:07
th1aRight now it is just one score per person/competency, right?17:07
* yvl thinks so17:07
th1aWe need much better tracking of each evaluation, even though that will mostly be hidden from the user unless they want to drill down.17:09
aelkneryes, there is only one score per comp at the moment17:09
yvllike history?17:09
th1aSo that could just be a list but maybe something else.17:09
aelknera time-soreted list would be needed17:09
th1aAt least.  Maybe a set of separate indexed objects.17:10
th1aWe have to talk through the more complicated use cases.17:10
th1aAnd what performance needs to be optimized.17:10
yvlgood points17:11
th1aBear in mind that competencies that are evaluated by multiple teachers are important.17:11
th1aAnd that teachers will want to see in their gradebook *their* evaluations.17:11
yvlthanks, this is useful info17:11
yvlvery useful, actually17:12
yvlit's looking to be a busy sprint :)17:13
th1aI'd say the simplest implementation is a list of scores per standard for each person.  The most complicated is a separate object for each evaluation.17:15
th1aI want aelkner to be able to write tests after the sprint.17:17
th1aSo if there are specific issues/questions aelkner, now would be a good time to air them.17:17
aelknerwe all need to be ale to write tests, not just me17:17
aelknerso far, we haven't really written any for flourish17:18
aelknerbut i don't any specific questions, just waiting to follow someone's lead on flourish tests17:19
aelkneri remember that datepicker is holding us up though17:20
yvlone more reason for me to look at Selenium :)17:20
yvland lang. settings17:20
yvland something else17:20
aelknerreplaceafill was right to ask yvl to look into that17:20
yvlapologies for delay on my side17:21
th1areplaceafill filed bugs, right?17:21
th1areplaceafill & yvl:  Stay in sync on this please.17:21
yvlwill do17:21
* replaceafill is setting up an oneiric vm17:21
replaceafillwant to try a slower "pc" :)17:22
yvloh, and if you pointed me to how reproduce 1. of the bug17:23
yvlit would be great17:23
yvlthe modal buttons part17:23
replaceafillyvl, i remember i stop the person test in that part17:23
replaceafilllet me check17:23
replaceafillline 21317:24
replaceafillalthough the test is out of date now i think17:24
replaceafillsince the password edit form changed later17:24
yvlok, I'll try that one17:25
yvllet's catch up tomorrow @ default meeting time on IRC17:26
replaceafilland about 3.17:26
replaceafilli think the right env variable should be LANGUAGE in ubuntu17:26
yvlI think I'll just disable translations17:26
replaceafillbut i didnt try it yet17:26
replaceafillyes, that would be better :)17:26
yvlprobably ;)17:27
replaceafill2. is hackable17:27
replaceafillsetting the dates first17:27
replaceafilland then the title17:27
replaceafill(at least in the add year form)17:27
yvlI think we just need some waitFor style helpers there17:28
replaceafilllet me know if you want me to test anything you change17:28
replaceafillth1a, could we have a couple of hours during the first day of the sprint for questions to yvl? :)17:29
replaceafilllike asking his opinion on stuff17:29
replaceafilli've put two bugs on pause because of that17:30
replaceafill(the demo fields ones)17:30
replaceafillkk, thanks17:30
th1aSaturday is kind of business.17:30
th1aWe'll do the CanDo stuff during the week.17:30
th1aSo Sunday can be more general ST stuff.17:30
th1aI'm working on the agenda and will send out the hotel info, etc.17:31
th1aWe have a studio and a suite.17:32
yvlwas about to ask that :)17:32
th1aSo someone has to sleep in a sofabed, but nobody has to share a room.17:32
th1areplaceafill got the sofa last year.17:32
replaceafill2010 :P17:33
th1aI keep thinking that was last year.17:33
* yvl can take the sofabed if need be :)17:33
th1aIt is yours yvl.17:33
th1aSome things go by age.   ;-)17:34
th1aThanks yvl.17:35
replaceafilllast week i worked on the css bug17:35
replaceafillstyled the /mygrades view17:35
replaceafilland also found a new error in the description demo fields17:36
replaceafillit was a missing class declaration17:36
replaceafillthat prevented the form from accessing the error's properties17:37
replaceafilli didnt report a bug, just fixed it and put a comment in the old bug17:38
replaceafill(although the cause was different)17:38
replaceafillthen i moved to make the gradebook look like a spreadsheet17:38
replaceafillremoving the extra padding for cells17:38
replaceafilli changed our border rules in css17:39
replaceafillborder: 1px solid #cccccc;17:39
replaceafillto border-width, border-style and border-color rules17:39
replaceafillso border-color could be on colors.css17:40
replaceafillwhich makes more sense to me17:40
replaceafillsmall stuff17:40
replaceafillalso took a look at this one:
replaceafilli was thinking about just marking the average menu17:41
replaceafilland setting an special rule for it, to move it to the left17:41
replaceafillinstead of looking for a general solution that adjust the menus automatically17:41
th1aThat sounds fine.17:42
replaceafill(that was a topic for conversation during the sprint for me btw)17:42
replaceafillcool, i'll do that then17:42
replaceafilli think that's it17:42
th1aOne question: if you started now how long do you think it would take to fix this date format nightmare?17:43
replaceafilli can have something ready to show on the wed meeting17:44
replaceafilli can stop css fixes17:44
replaceafilland move to that back17:44
th1aI'd rather get the dates fixed.17:44
replaceafill(i kind of inverted the order this past week)17:44
replaceafillwill work on that then17:44
th1aOK.  Thanks replaceafill.17:44
aelkneri got the transcript request modal to work17:45
aelknerthere is a need to fix ST.dialogs.submit17:46
aelknerright now the $.ajax() call has a success handler, but no error handler17:46
yvlthere are more places like that17:47
aelknerthat means, if the request template has a silly typo, hitting Download just results in a blank modal17:47
yvland there's also the session timeout issue17:47
aelknerright, so we need to talk about that kind of stuff at the sprint17:47
aelknerluckily, i was able to figure out what the typo was in firebug, just time consuming17:48
yvlit's a < week's worth of a fix17:48
aelknerthat's what i meant before about modals being difficult, not that they are not doable, just slow17:48
aelknerbut anyway, we'll have that sped up before too long17:49
aelkneranyway, the pdf comes up now, but it doesn't have any data in it17:49
aelknerso i moved onto the layout view17:49
aelkneri thought that adding Transcript Layout to Customize would be appropriate17:50
aelknerright below Report Card Layout17:50
aelknerth1a, as per our conversation last wed, i thought that eventually a transcript17:50
aelknertype would need to be a dropfown in the layout view17:51
aelknerbut for now we can assume that it is the first one we come up with17:51
aelknereventually, the choice of transcript type would potentially change the17:51
aelknerset of choices that follow it17:51
aelknerassuming that we have just the first simple form of transcript we17:51
aelkneronly have one drop-down (so far) that the user needs to choose from17:52
aelknerthat is, the report activity source for the term final grade data17:52
th1aWell, there is with or without gpa in terms of type.17:52
aelknerwell, before introducing type, i thought i'd get the simplest one to work for starters17:53
aelknerand that would be, just showing the one and only one score for each section attended17:53
aelknerbased on the choice of which deployed report sheet activity is to be the source17:54
aelknerso the output would be a table with two columns, course and grade17:55
th1aI'm just saying I don't think it gets more complicated than that except you have to decide if there will be a gpa or not.17:55
aelknerwith the term being a breaker for visual aid17:55
th1aJust remember that only the last term in a linked section should count for the score.17:55
aelknerah, so don't show scores for earlier terms for linked sections?17:56
th1aAt least that's what we'll try to get away with.17:57
aelknerok, that helps because there was going to be the issue of term score versus final score17:57
th1aThe last term is the final score.17:57
th1aSo anyway, get something simple going for me to look at to make sure you don't spend the week marching in the wrong direction.17:58
aelknerso for now the Transcript Layout view will have just the one drop-down to select deployed report sheet activity17:58
aelknerand we can discuss type when we have the simplest one working17:59
aelknerso i'm clear on what to do, and i'll press on with it this week17:59
th1aOK, so we can close on a nice round minute...17:59
th1aHave a good couple of days and see you guys Wed.18:00
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:00
yvllooking forward to it!18:00
aelknerthanks guys18:00
yvlsee you guys soon!18:00
replaceafillthanks everybody18:00
aelknercya wednesday18:00
*** aks has quit IRC18:37
*** Khalsa has quit IRC19:33
replaceafillyvl, confirmed, if i set my VM to 40% cpu, the categories stest passes :)20:34
replaceafill(no dialog in that one though)20:35
replaceafillif i set the VM to 100% cpu, the test fails sometimes20:35
th1areplaceafill:  I just sent a reply to Cambodia.20:51
*** ignas_ has quit IRC21:32
replaceafillth1a, nice reply, thanks21:40
*** jelkner has quit IRC23:30

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!