IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2012-01-18

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th1areplaceafill:  Maybe "Reorder" for the subtitle on the view you mentioned yesterday.16:19
replaceafillth1a, right16:19
replaceafilllevels use "Change Order", maybe they should use the same16:20
replaceafilli mean, "Reorder" in all of them16:20
th1ahi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
th1aOK, replaceafill, would you like to start?16:35
replaceafilli'm almost done with flourishing cambodia, reports are the last part16:35
replaceafillbut yesterday i realized something with demographics + the catalog16:36
replaceafillthose are the demographics fields cambodia depends on16:36
replaceafillcheck for instance
replaceafillnotice that the title and selection list are values entered by the user16:37
replaceafillthat means they're going to be in the language of the user16:37
replaceafilland the catalog so far looks for those values in english16:37
replaceafillso, the index will not work as expected16:38
th1aThis is a general problem, correct?16:38
replaceafilland only happens with selection fields16:38
replaceafilldates and integers and bools work great16:38
replaceafilli was thinking we need something with a key + title16:38
th1aI don't understand why the catalog would know what language was being used in the first place.16:38
th1aIt doesn't just see strings?16:39
replaceafillyes, titles16:39
replaceafillbut we would need to change the code to adjust to khmer for example16:39
replaceafillor if someone uses spanish, then to spanish, etc16:39
replaceafillagain, a key + title would be better in my opinion16:39
replaceafillthe user could edit the title16:40
replaceafilland leave the key alone16:40
replaceafillor something like that16:40
replaceafilli came up with this:16:40
replaceafillsee the selection list16:40
replaceafillit's not pretty16:41
replaceafilli have to test it but i think it will work16:41
replaceafillin this case the catalog would look for the number instead of the string16:41
replaceafilli mean, instead of the title16:41
th1ato be honest, I'm not following this at all.16:42
replaceafillsorry, maybe i'm not being clear16:42
th1aWhy does the catalog care about language at all?16:42
th1aCan the selection list be translated?16:42
replaceafillth1a, i thought about making the list translatable, but it will break if they edit something16:43
th1a(I don't think it needs to be translatable)16:43
replaceafillactually, i reported that problem in the general case16:44
replaceafillby default, selection lists contain i18n messages16:44
replaceafillso you see them in your language while editing16:44
replaceafillbut the field titles are shown in english, for example in the person index view16:44
replaceafillit's a i18n issue still to be solved16:45
replaceafillcontinuing with the catalog16:45
replaceafillthe catalog gets the demographics value for a person, right?16:46
replaceafillthat value comes in the language of the selection list16:46
replaceafillif people in cambodia modify the selection list, the value will come in khmer16:46
replaceafilland the search code is looking for english16:46
replaceafill(from the default value)16:47
th1aSo basically what I've learned is that search algorithms are language aware.16:47
replaceafillif they involve demographics, yes16:48
replaceafillcambodia does16:48
replaceafillthat's why i need a piece of data that's not language aware16:48
replaceafilllike a key16:48
replaceafillthat i can look for16:48
th1aPresumably there is some reason that they need to be language aware?16:48
replaceafillit's just that we use demographics fields to store the data16:49
replaceafilland users can change that16:49
replaceafillthey will need to change that16:49
replaceafillto make them in khmer16:49
th1aI don't understand why this is an issue for demographics and not, say, names.16:49
replaceafillbecause you don't index names and use them in reports16:50
aelknerto bad yvl is not here for this discussion16:50
th1aCould the user set the language in the demographics edit form?16:51
replaceafillth1a, you mean set the values of the selection list?16:51
th1aI mean say "These values are in Khmer."16:51
replaceafillnot by default, but what's the advantage of that?16:52
th1aThen the index could know the language?16:53
th1aOr does it only work for English?16:53
replaceafillit's content16:53
replaceafillsimpler example16:53
replaceafillsuppose we allow people to enter first name and last name16:53
replaceafillwe index those16:53
replaceafillbut in the report we look specificly for a value16:54
replaceafillbut we're setting names in spanish16:54
replaceafillso, Tom becomes Tomás :)16:54
replaceafillit's the same issue16:54
th1aWhy is the report looking for Tom at all?16:55
replaceafillbecause that's the default value it was used on initialization16:55
replaceafillwhen the demo fields were created16:55
th1aWell, if we set it to the right value, we're fine, right?16:55
replaceafillabsolutely, but we'll need to ask for the right values in khmer16:56
replaceafilli mean, ask chandara and friends16:56
th1aSo... isn't that a sufficient solution?16:56
replaceafillit would work, but i think we still have the general problem16:57
replaceafillif it's a problem at all16:57
replaceafillto me, it is16:57
th1aThe problem is in trying to have a bilingual interface.16:57
th1aWhich we haven't really discussed as a requirement (either way).16:57
replaceafilli'll ask them for the translations to initialize the app with those16:57
replaceafilland adjust the search to them16:58
th1aWhat adjustment has to be made?16:58
replaceafillnot many, just the init subscriber and the census report16:59
th1aSo... how much more time on Cambodia this week?16:59
replaceafilli can work on something else while i wait for their reply17:00
replaceafillthere are still css bugs17:00
th1aIt is ready for them to look at?17:00
replaceafillin english at least17:01
replaceafilli'll also write the instructions for them to set up their instance17:01
replaceafilllocal instance17:01
th1aSo our attitude about this -- I'll write the mail -- is that it is ready and if they don't want to deal with it now, it is ok.17:01
th1aIt is optional for the time being.  I can't really tell how far along they really are with the current version.17:02
replaceafillaccording to their online instance not much17:02
th1aOne suspects.17:02
replaceafillok, i'll start with the instructions then17:03
replaceafillthat's it from me17:03
th1aYou can do more CSS.  Also, can we meet about web stuff tomorrow?17:04
th1aAn hour after the regular meeting time?17:04
replaceafillth1a, sure, why not today?17:04
th1aOr today.17:04
replaceafillth1a, i can use a change of work17:05
th1aOK.  Today then.17:05
replaceafillcool, after the meeting?17:05
th1aI just have to remember what I was thinking about...17:05
th1aThat's fine.17:05
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:06
aelkneri fixed some bugs, and i have two left17:06
aelkneri couldn't reproduct the problem17:07
aelknerin other words, it may not be a problem aymore17:07
aelknercould you do a manual test and make the bug invalid if it is?17:07
aelknernot right now necessarily17:08
aelknerbut that's the one bug17:08
aelknerthe other one,
aelknerthat one looks like an interesting one to do, take me a while17:08
aelkneri thought to add a task to take yp some time17:09
aelknerreplaceafill, re our discussion monday about setting up tests17:09
aelknerthe datepicker was essential for getting years set up, unless17:09
aelknerwe do a XLS import!17:09
aelknerit just occured to me that one can get lots of test data loaded that way17:10
replaceafillaelkner, i thought about setting a test view to set up the years and terms17:10
replaceafilleither way17:10
aelknerthe reason i realized about the xls idea was that i've been thinking about tests in general17:10
th1aI added a comment to
aelknerand how the whole clicking around, multiple transactions could be really wasteful timewise17:11
aelknerand we may prefer xls import for setting up tests, also really time-saver writing tests17:11
replaceafillaelkner, from conversations with yvl on this topic, i think he has an idea for data setup in tests17:11
aelknerbut yvl should be involved in that discussion17:11
aelkneryou know, he should share his ideas17:11
aelknerlike in writing :)17:11
th1aWould adding filldown back in really take much time?17:11
aelknerit could take a couple days, you know because of the whole modal thing17:12
aelknerunless we expand the menu implementation17:12
aelknerwhich doesn't bring up new modal, just unhides fields17:12
th1aIt would be a pretty simple modal.17:13
aelknerthe modal itself, one field, submit, cancel is trivial17:13
aelknerthe machinery for getting it up and down seems to be rocket science17:14
aelknersomething that yvl probably wasn't sure how to explain17:14
aelkneri could jump into my own investigation and perhaps invent my own rocket science17:14
aelknerbut that would take a couple days at least17:15
aelknerreplaceafill, your thoughts?17:15
th1aBecause it is from a menu?17:16
aelkneri can't explain what yvl did, only he could17:16
aelknerthere seemed to be a need for some kind of js variable17:16
aelknerand it had to be changed in many different places17:17
aelknercode spinkled about17:17
aelknervery easy to make a mistak and spend half a day debugging in firefox17:17
aelknerthat is the experience that i'm basing my estimate on17:18
th1aOur many examples are not helpful?17:18
aelknerright, no examples17:18
aelknerthat's why i ask replaceafill, do yoju know of an example that i'm missing?17:19
replaceafillaelkner, example of...?17:19
th1aAn example of a modal?17:19
aelkneryes, and how would you characterize the various scenarios17:19
replaceafillof a modal?17:19
aelknerof all the js that needs to be inline to support calling one up17:20
aelkneris there a reason that we could have a simple view class that we could include inline17:20
aelknerjust one line of .pt source17:20
aelkner<tal:replace content="some view of some context">17:21
aelknerand that view could render all the js based on easy to configure variables17:21
th1aHaven't you done other modals?17:21
aelkneri have, and just by luck, i would say17:21
aelknerone other i think, i can't remember which17:21
replaceafilldon't know if it would helpful to you, but check the password edit view17:22
replaceafillit redirects you to a modal17:22
replaceafill(not sure if that's whay you need)17:22
aelknerredirects to modal?17:23
aelkneri thought modals just come up on top17:23
replaceafillvisually :)17:24
replaceafillchange her password17:24
replaceafilland you have several examples in the multiterm sections17:25
aelknerum, clicking on the password doesn't bring up a modal17:25
replaceafillfor linking them, i mean17:25
replaceafilldid you *change* the password?17:25
aelknerit just brings up a new view like any of our others17:25
aelknerum, no :)17:25
aelknerah, there you go17:26
aelknerso i could look at what you did and see how it goes17:27
aelknerthanks replaceafill17:27
replaceafillagain, not sure that's what you need17:27
replaceafillbut at least it's an example17:27
replaceafillthe dialog is set as a view on the global app17:28
replaceafilland the password edit view redirects you to it17:28
aelkneris there a lot of js prinkled about?17:28
replaceafillno, not much17:28
aelknerok, so i'll look into that17:28
th1ajquery itself is well documented.17:29
aelknerjquery is not an issue, just the integration into the pt and view class17:29
aelkneralso, choosing how to handle various events17:30
aelknerthe more esoteric and spread out the solution to events is17:30
aelknerthe more time it takes to make new/fix bugs17:30
aelknerso we'll see17:31
aelkneranyway, i was going to ask replaceafill about testing17:31
aelkneryou already wrote one in schooltool core, right?17:31
replaceafillapp and basicperson i think17:31
aelknerdoes bin/test pick it up, or do you need to add an option?17:31
replaceafillyou need to set up the selenium runner in buildout.cfg17:32
replaceafillyvl sent an email with the instructions to the dev list17:32
aelknerhow do i search this site?17:33
* replaceafill is looking for the configuration, but i don't think i have an instance with one in this laptop17:33
aelkneris there a better way to find yvl's email?17:34
replaceafillExperimental Selenium testing machinery17:34
replaceafillTuesday, September 20, 2011 8:22 AM17:34
aelknerhow did you find that, did you click on each month?17:35
replaceafilli just remember aelkner17:35
aelknercan you post a link to it?17:35
aelknerto the email?17:36
replaceafillcan't you search your inbox?17:36
aelknerbut thanks for the revision, that helps17:36
aelkneri can try my inbox17:36
replaceafillbtw, we don't use schooltool-dev anymore :)17:36
replaceafillwe use launchpad now17:36
* th1a rolls his eyes.17:37
aelknerok, i found the email17:37
aelkneri can start with that17:37
aelknerth1a, could you think of more bugs to add to my cirical queue as the week goes on?17:38
th1aYou're going to be working on transcripts.17:38
th1aI was thinking you should try to find one of yours.17:39
th1aDo you have your college transcript somewhere?17:40
aelkneri think about that box i have from time to time17:40
aelknerone of those things that you don't want to throw out17:40
th1aLook in your box.17:40
aelkneri haven't dug it up lately, but it would be fun to do that17:40
th1aIt might be worth the trouble, since then you wouldn't be confused about what anything meant, compared to if you just had a random example.17:41
aelknerok, i can start to think about transcripts17:41
aelknerthat could be a big enough task to give you a break from coming with small ones17:42
th1aIt is not so much a matter of giving me a break as meeting our goal for the next release.17:43
aelknerwell, there's that, too17:43
th1aYou should be able to do most of it with current data.17:43
th1aThere are a few things which need elaboration.17:44
aelknershould it be based on report card data, report sheets?17:44
th1aIn the data model, but we can do most of it.17:44
aelkneralso, it is multi-year17:44
aelknerit just occured to me, doesn't a transcript depend on a consistent data source year over year17:45
aelknerlike a predictable report sheet to look at, regardless of course17:45
th1aAll courses get the same report sheets.17:45
aelknerwe're talking final grades only17:45
th1aBasically we'll need something that lets you set per year which score (only one) shows up on the transcript.17:46
th1aIn each year.17:46
aelknerperhaps report sheets is not the best thing to use17:46
th1aNo... it has to be report sheets.17:47
aelknerwell, in thoery, we need one sheet that has one activity17:47
aelknerand that activity would be the final grade17:47
aelknerbut no need to deploy a template each year17:48
aelknerbecause that level of control has no benefit and leaves wholes open17:48
aelknerfor difficulty finding data that the report is looking for17:48
th1aaelkner, it isn't that different from a report card.17:49
th1aIt should be the same data.17:49
th1aOnly less.17:49
th1aThere are a few tricky parts.17:49
th1aLike, you don't want the first semester grade of a two semester course.17:49
th1aSo we'll have to think about those cases, but really it is more up to the user to set it up in a way that makes sense.17:50
aelknercould you play the user and start a bug in launchpad with a sort of script that you would follow17:50
th1aOr maybe we use some logic ourselves and only look at the last grade in a linked course.17:50
aelkneri think if you thought about one script, you would see the problem right away17:51
aelknerexplaining how the program is supposed to find the info17:51
th1aHere's the script,17:51
th1aI go to setup transcript.17:51
th1aThere's a form with a line for each year.17:52
th1aIn each year I can pick one and only one of the report sheet scores like I would in report card layout.17:52
th1aExcept I have to pick one.17:52
th1aAnd I need to do that for each year in the system.17:52
th1aThen I hit print.17:52
aelknerah, layout transript17:52
aelknerthat make sense17:53
aelkneronly one user action per year17:53
aelknerthe whole flexibility setting up report sheets is already a task that is done17:53
aelknerand the user just needs to point to it17:53
aelknersounds perfect17:54
th1aThere will still be some multi-term section trickery, but that should get you started.17:54
aelknerthey have to pick the activity which is specific to the term anyway17:54
aelknerthat's the way the report card works, they pick the activity which implies the term17:55
th1aYes but a transcript doesn't have intermediate grades, and a report card does.17:55
th1aSo it is a bit trickier.17:56
aelknerhow would you define it?17:57
th1aI think we can just use the last section of any group of linked sections and that'll work.17:57
th1aIgnore the earlier ones.17:57
th1a(for grades)17:57
th1aReally though, look for your transcripts first.17:57
aelknerthat'll keep me busy17:58
aelkneri'm done with my report17:58
th1aOK.  Thanks aelkner.17:58
th1aIn other news, is offering SchoolTool hosting.17:59
th1aI'm going to send them an email.17:59
th1aTo say hi.17:59
th1aOK, thanks guys.18:03
th1aaelkner:  Let me know if you have questions.18:03
th1aHave a good week & weekend.18:03
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:03
* th1a needs a snack.18:04
th1areplaceafill:  Want to get started?18:17
replaceafillth1a, sure18:17
th1aOK, first, here's an app bug matt g. just asked about a few minutes ago.18:18
th1aIn /settings there should be an edit pencil next to Outgoing email and Calendar.18:19
th1aI mean, it is a little inconsistent with how we do it in /school, but I think it is a good idea.18:19
replaceafilllink + pencil?18:20
replaceafillor regular text + pencil?18:20
replaceafillbecause outgoing email takes you to the email overview, not the email settings form18:20
replaceafilli can see the pencil for calendar though18:21
th1aOK, just do that then.18:24
th1aI'd keep the text as a link too, otherwise, fine.18:30
replaceafillah ok18:30
replaceafillth1a, changes done18:36
replaceafilli changed some other inconsistencies in levels view "New Level" -> "Level", etc18:37
th1aShifting to the book...18:38
th1aI don't think we need the in-page table of contents in the sidebar.18:38
th1aIt is more confusing than helpful.18:38
replaceafillhhmm ok18:38
replaceafillshould we expand the content area?18:39
replaceafillto fill that space?18:39
replaceafilljust taking the sidebar out then18:39
th1aThere is still next and previous.18:40
replaceafillgot it, just taking out the "table of contents"18:40
th1aMaybe we should put the overall contents in there instead.18:40
th1aunder the next/previous18:41
replaceafillmaybe some interlinear space for the section titles18:51
replaceafillor bullets18:51
th1aJust take it out for now.18:52
th1a(the contents)18:52
replaceafilljust previous and next18:52
th1aThat's fine for now.18:52
th1aSo my mom pointed out we don't have contact info on the home page!18:56
th1aWell, we need an about page.18:56
replaceafillah, k18:56
th1aEssentially, we need to port the one from the app.18:56
replaceafillwe have
replaceafillmaybe update it?18:57
th1aOK, I can  update that, but we need a link.18:58
th1aPerhaps Contact in the header.18:58
replaceafillthat takes you to about.html?18:58
replaceafillafter Documentation?18:58
th1aYes, but I guess I should write that first.18:59
th1aNow, on the homepage, try what Vinny suggested: I think that if you remove "SchoolTool:" from the header, you could shift everything up about 5px. I also would recommend removing "SchoolTool:" because it is inconsistant with the lowercase19:00
replaceafillth1a, like this:
th1aDo you think that's sufficient?19:05
replaceafillnow i see a big gap between the slider and the secondary titles (what's new, etc)19:05
th1aWe should just tighten it up as much as and ubuntu.com19:06
th1aI think it could be bumped up both above and below the slider -- a bit.19:06
th1aMove it up a little above too.19:11
th1aSay, 8px from where we started.19:11
replaceafillthat part is using ems, so i removed the 0.5em margin-top19:13
replaceafillyou can compare with the current version19:14
th1aI think it looked better with more space above and below.19:14
th1aJust the first change.19:14
replaceafillok, reverting...19:14
replaceafilljust took out the "schooltool:" and the <br /> below the title19:16
th1ajust change the spacing ABOVE the title.19:17
replaceafilllike that?19:18
replaceafilltook out "schooltool:" and removed the margin-top from the title19:18
replaceafilli remember why we put that much space above the title19:20
replaceafillthe translated version was longer19:20
replaceafilland it hit the search box19:20
replaceafillbut with no "schooltool:" it fits well now19:20
replaceafillnow seems more "evenly" placed19:21
replaceafillalmost same margin top and bottom of the title19:21
th1aOK, I'll ask Vinny what he thinks before we switch it.19:21
replaceafillunfortuantely, now i see huge gaps everywhere :(19:21
th1aAt this point, my eye is completely fucked anyhow.19:23
th1aThis is why I'm not a designer.19:23
th1aOK, we can stop for now...19:25
replaceafillheh, someone using schooltool in a tablet
th1aIt should work fine.19:49
replaceafilli think he's using the old skin19:50
replaceafillthe journal in the old skin "simulates" the input field19:50
replaceafillit's pure javascript19:50
replaceafillwith keypressed et al19:50
replaceafillno explicit <input > tags19:50
replaceafillmaybe that's why he doesn't get the screen keyboard19:51
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th1areplaceafill:  Do you recall us losing the dd/mm/yyyy format?21:21
th1adid we used to have it?21:22
replaceafilli remember we decided to change to yyyy-mm-dd format to make the zc.datetimewidget happy21:22
replaceafilland not mess with locales21:22
th1ai thought we did21:22
replaceafillth1a, yes21:22
th1afor display21:22
replaceafillwe used to have it21:22
th1aWe still have choices for displaying dates.21:22
replaceafillwe use unicode(date_value) in most places now for display21:22
replaceafillin my opinion everything should be tied to the preference setting21:23
replaceafilland avoid the zc.datetimewidget completely21:23
th1aThat is the idea of preferences.21:23
replaceafilli tried that with cambodia21:24
replaceafilland it works21:24
replaceafillusing z3c.form data converters21:24
th1aAh, I see.21:24
replaceafillbut havent' discussed it with yvl yet21:24
replaceafilli want his opinion on that21:24
th1aYes, we probably should do it.21:24
replaceafillsome of my thoughts on the subject:
replaceafillbut in conclusion, it's doable21:26
th1aI remember.21:26
th1aWhoa, I need to update (or trash) the history.  :-D21:47
replaceafillyou're missing 3 years now :D21:48
th1aI know, that'd take some research!21:48
th1aI'm glad gives you the option of finding the "ancient Zope website."22:23
th1areplaceafill:  I pushed an update to the about page in the book.23:04
replaceafillth1a, kk23:07

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