IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2011-12-14

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olegbI have installed schooltool2 and i am able to use it on the localhost - but i am not able to use it from other computers on the local network. The server doesn't have a firewall running - any settings i have missed to open the schooltoolserver to the local net ?10:22
olegbok, changing the server setting in paste.ini from to does the trick …10:27
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olegbsorry - run away keyboard16:28
th1ahi menesis, yvl, replaceafill, aelkner.16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
* th1a spent yesterday in bed.16:32
th1aFeeling a bit better today.16:32
aelkneri've been struggling with a cold lately, perhaps it's the same thing16:33
th1aSo, not much for me to report.  aelkner?16:34
aelkneri got the course worksheet deployment stuff to work and have it loaded on demo instance16:35
aelknerbut i'd rather go over it with a fine comb after the meeting16:35
aelkneri'm sure you'll want me to change some text16:35
aelkneralso, perhaps you'll ask me to add a small feature if you feel it is needed16:35
th1aOK good.16:36
yvlgood morning16:36
th1ahi yvl, menesis.16:38
replaceafilli kept working on the translation of the book16:38
replaceafillfinding/fixing i18n issues16:38
replaceafillmost of the widget filter templates were missing some i18n:* directives16:39
replaceafillso i fixed that16:39
replaceafillalso removed/fixed some paragraphs from the english book16:39
replaceafillth1a, i guess you're receiving the diffs right?16:39
replaceafilli saw you're subscribed to that branch16:39
replaceafillth1a, some out of date parts:16:40
th1aAlthough I have to remind myself to actually look at them.16:40
th1aWell, after a certain point, the whole rest of the book is out of date.16:40
replaceafillth1a, right16:40
replaceafillalso noticed something after you updated the pack database instructions16:41
replaceafillthe pack database success dialog should not allow to be closed16:41
replaceafillif you hit ESC or press the X button on it16:41
replaceafillwhen you see it16:41
th1aI don't follow.16:42
replaceafillyou get back to the packing the database message16:42
replaceafillwith the spinner16:42
replaceafillinstead of getting redirected16:42
th1aAh.  OK.16:42
replaceafilli did that for the success dialog after changing the password16:42
replaceafillhiding the X button on the dialog16:42
replaceafilland setting it not to close on ESC16:43
replaceafillkind of hackish, but it works :/16:43
replaceafilli'll do the same for the pack database dialog16:43
replaceafillth1a, i guess i'm only missing the gradebook, journal chapter now16:43
replaceafillthat include screenshots16:44
replaceafill(that's what it takes more time)16:44
replaceafillthen i'll move on to fix the actual i18n issue i've been reporting16:44
yvlfor the sake of curiosity, did you try writing selenium "tests" that make the screenshots?16:44
th1aI didn't this time.16:44
replaceafillyvl, no16:45
th1areplaceafill:  I probably won't have the gradebook and journal updated until the end of the week.16:45
replaceafillth1a, ah ok16:45
th1ayvl:  Ultimately, that was more of a time sink than a benefit.16:45
th1aIt was an excellent way to procrastinate though!16:46
replaceafillah, finally, making the screenshots has also helped me to find some unstyled buttons and other css that i need to fix16:46
replaceafillthat's it for me16:46
th1aSo you can just work on the i18n bugs for a while?16:46
replaceafillth1a, yes16:46
replaceafilland css16:47
th1aThanks replaceafill.16:47
menesisI had to finish the other project16:47
th1aThat's fine.16:48
menesisit is done now16:48
menesisfor schooltool I only fixed make coverage16:48
menesisthat was failing on buildbots16:48
menesissince I updated zc.buildout to 1.5 last week16:49
menesisnot sure what are my priorities for next week16:49
th1aWell, in general, you have a decision to make.16:50
menesisI planned to make a 2.0.1 release for xmas16:50
menesisand there is stuff that could be backported to older versions, at least the xls import/export fixes, contacts in xls16:51
th1aYes, we have a few bugs that could go in a bugfix release.16:51
th1aThe larger decision for you is whether you want to work on new packages that automate sys admin tasks.16:52
th1aLike, for example, automatic backup to Ubuntu One.16:53
menesisyes, other bugs that are important are improving the existing "schooltool" package16:54
menesismake sure it upgrades from lucid16:54
menesisnot sure about Ubuntu One16:54
menesisit is for personal stuff16:54
th1aWell, if we have to pick one backup service, I'd say that would be a good one to pick.16:55
menesisbut some kind of backup is needed. at least documentation how to do that.16:56
th1aYes, we could start with just better sys admin documentation in the book.16:56
th1aApache, HTTPS, etc.16:56
menesiscurrently there is only the location of database documented, do what you want with it..16:56
th1aThat's stuff that I can edit but not write from scratch.16:56
menesisalso, copying live db is not a good idea, "repozo" script has to be used16:57
menesisbut I don't know this stuff either, I'm not a sysadmin really16:58
olegbapropos HTTPS - anywhere I can read about how to use it with schooltool ?16:58
menesisis a bug about proxying through apache16:59
olegbah, thanks17:00
th1aOK, I'm creating a bug on the SchoolTool book for you menesis.17:00
menesisth1a: I just posted the bug17:01
menesisolegb: see
menesisit has instructions about configuring apache and https17:01
th1aOh, I thought that bug was for olegb17:01
menesismight be old17:01
menesisbut that's what admins that deploy schooltool have written17:02
th1aSo consider that your task.17:03
th1aI'll edit the text.  Just get it all down and in the same place.17:03
menesisth1a: ok this is a broader task17:03
menesismultiple instances is hard to do currently.17:03
olegbth1a: hehe, I though so too :-)17:03
olegbmenesis: thanks17:03
menesisthat is also a task for me17:03
menesisto make it easy create/run many instances on ubuntu17:04
th1aI don't think that's something that has to be "easy."17:05
th1aIt implies a serious deployment that has some technical capacity and can follow some instructions.17:05
th1aWon't panic at the sight of a configuration file.17:06
menesiswell.. you can bin/make-schooltool-instance foo ; bin/start-schooltool-instance foo from source checkout17:06
menesisbut not in ubuntu17:06
th1aI'm just saying it isn't as high a priority for easiness as, say, HTTPS.17:07
th1aWhich, tbh, everyone should always use with SchoolTool.17:07
th1aHave a clearer idea of priorities?17:08
menesishttps implies self-signed certificates and the need to ignore warnings every time you restart the browser :/17:09
menesisth1a: documenting and fixing sysadmin stuff?17:10
th1aI guess packaging debt first, if any, then that.17:10
menesiswhat about bugfixes for older releases? I have been postponing that for a few months now17:11
th1aNow is a good time to catch up on things that you have been putting off.17:11
th1aSo yes, if you want.17:12
menesiswill see17:12
menesisbut yes, it is clearer now17:12
th1aYou have a certain amount of discretion.17:12
menesisthat's a few parallel tasks17:12
th1aThanks menesis.17:13
yvlI hit a forest of walls :)17:13
yvlwith the relationship views17:14
yvlI don't know how verbose should I be on describing what's the problem17:14
th1anot -vv17:15
yvlok :D17:15
yvlat first, the most simple UI thing to do seemed just not reloading the whole page17:15
yvlclick on (+), it appears in say, section members and everything's peachy17:16
yvlwell, it's not peachy17:16
yvlthere are basically two ways to do that17:16
yvl1) disable the whole page area after hitting (+)17:17
yvlit means, both tables, their buttons, searches, batch tabbing17:17
yvlbut it's very close to a page reload, and a good question if it's worth the trouble17:17
yvl2) allow users to click on buttons asynchronously17:17
yvlclick add user, get a spinner,17:18
yvlclick two more add users17:18
yvland they get resolved in whatever order the server responds17:18
yvlbut both tables are cross-dependent17:18
yvland it's pure hell to implement17:18
th1aI see.17:18
yvlI can't stress the hell part enough17:18
th1aIt seems like the batching makes it worse.17:19
yvla basic thing to note17:19
yvluser events, when asinchronous, are executed in order A17:19
yvlserver gets those events in order B17:19
yvland browser receives responses in order C17:19
yvlgood luck updating the tables17:19
yvlit would be bad even without batching/search available at the time some user is being added/removed17:20
yvlso we either do nothing, or do some UI changes17:20
* yvl had a favorite option 4 hours ago :)17:21
yvlbut now I'm not so sure17:21
yvlthe option was to put two links in Actions of a, say, section17:21
yvl"Add members"17:21
yvl"Remove members"17:21
yvlthey open a jquery dialog17:21
yvlwith a searcheable table17:22
yvlwhere you can put members the way you are now17:22
yvland then hit confirm17:22
yvlthere's even a slightly nicer version of this:17:22
yvlyou see the relationships view the way it is now17:22
yvlclick (+) on John17:22
yvlget a jquery dialog17:22
yvlAdd Users17:23
yvl[name] [surname] [id]17:23
yvlJohn Johnson stud15417:23
yvlAdd More17:23
yvl----table of selecting more users---17:23
yvland a confirm button somewhere17:23
yvlthis might not look like much change17:23
yvlbut the essence is that the top list of users to add17:24
yvlis not related to database17:24
yvlhence, less racing conditions17:24
yvl(unless some other clerk is adding/removing members)17:24
th1aI think I like the explicit "Add members" rather than popping a dialog when you hit "+"17:24
th1aOne thing I'd say is that the relationship view is the one thing we've gotten some negative feedback about in flourish.17:25
yvlwell, it would also have "Add Instructors", but it's something17:25
yvlthat's to be expected, considering how other things look/work ;)17:26
th1aSo I wouldn't mind a full do-over to make everyone happy.17:26
yvlif I can be a bit more verbose...17:26
yvltwo things17:26
yvlthere's another idea I'd like to play with on paper at least17:26
yvlconsidering we'll have student photos soonish17:27
yvlapps like Facebook and Linked-in have a certain way to manage people17:27
yvlbasically you get a list of people (with photos)17:27
yvland for each person there's a marker of some sort17:28
yvldisplaying if the person is "in" or "out"17:28
yvlif we change membership view to one table17:28
yvland add "Current Members" to the filters17:28
yvlor somewhere more explicit17:29
yvlwe can have a "state" table cell17:29
yvlthis approach might prove useful when implementing our next features17:29
yvllike... substitute teachers for one17:29
yvlyou don't just add/remove a person anymore17:30
yvlthere are more options, like "substitute"17:30
yvlalso, users might want to add open-ended substitutions17:30
yvlstart being substitute on Mon17:31
th1aProbably a sketch would help at this point.17:31
yvland we'll see when the original teacher can get back to work17:31
yvlok, to put one more thing on the table17:31
yvlignas made a good point today17:31
yvlto quote "users17:32
yvl"Users don't complain when they have to add members.  They complain when they have to add them the second time"17:32
yvland we had such complaints already17:32
yvlon memberships, activities and so on17:32
yvlthere's clearly a pattern we need to figure out17:33
* yvl done with putting things on the table part ;)17:33
yvlcomments? :)17:33
yvlwhile you guys are thinking... ;)17:34
th1aI could use a sketch at this point -- and basically this project can't grow indefinitely.17:34
th1aAlso, I'm feeling very wooly-headed right now.17:34
yvlyou're speaking my mind :)17:34
yvlok, so if anyone comes up with some ideas, please draft17:35
yvlI'll probably put something on paper today and send photos tomorrow :)17:35
th1aOK.  Cool.17:35
th1aThanks yvl.17:35
aelkneryvl, i like the idea of benefiting from the highly user-reviewed patterns in Facebook17:35
aelknerthey do handle state changes a lot17:36
aelknerthat's all i got :)17:37
th1aaelkner:  Can we take up your changes at 11:00?17:38
* th1a needs to lie down for a minute.17:38
th1aThanks guys, have a great week & weekend!17:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:39
replaceafillthanks everybody17:39
replaceafillget well th1a17:39
yvlthanks guys17:39
yvlget better th1a!17:39
th1aok aelkner, what am I looking at?18:04
aelknerok, one sec18:06
aelknerfirst off, there is no Customize linkset18:06
aelknerand just now it occured to me, i could create one18:06
aelkneri think we already have an example18:06
aelknerwhere we don't render it if it has no links18:06
aelknerso, for now, no gradebook, no Customize linkset18:07
th1aJust a sec.18:07
aelkneroh, and i realize this might not be the best time to go over every detail18:07
aelknerconsidering how you feel at the moment18:08
aelknerso stop me any time you want, and we can pick it up later tonight18:08
aelkneri, too, could use a nap after we go over this18:08
th1aIdeally, these activities don't have due dates.18:08
aelkneri couldn't say that they did, but what if a teacher wanted to set up everything18:09
aelkneri couldn't make that call, but if you'd like to have me pull it, i can18:09
th1aIs due date always required?  How'd that happen?18:10
aelknerhm, let me check the gradebook18:10
aelknerok, same in the gradebook18:11
aelkneri don't know why we didn't notice that sooner18:11
th1aIt shouldn't be in either.18:11
aelkneri can change the interface, IActivity, to have due_date not required18:12
aelknerthat, luckily does nothing to any data18:12
aelknershould we keep the due_date field in the course activity add view, or remove it18:13
aelknernow that it is optional, it would match the gradebook18:14
aelknerand that can be a plus for usability18:14
th1aOh... leave it there for now.18:14
th1aI kind of want Worksheet Templates in the main content area above Deployed Worksheets.18:15
aelknersounds like a good idea, so no Customize linkset needed18:15
th1aIt is just slightly inconsistent with the School page.18:16
th1aMaybe we should make the same change there.18:16
aelknernot a bad idea, either18:16
th1aOK.  Do that.18:16
aelknerspeaking of being consistent, i had some thoughts about empty table messages18:16
aelkneror lack there of in School tab templates view18:17
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aelknerwhatever message we use for that in course templates, the same pattern should be used in report sheet templates18:17
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aelknerconnectivity issues i see18:18
th1aI think replaceafill wanted each empty message to be specific.18:18
th1aThere are no people.18:18
th1aThere are no sections.18:18
th1afor i18n reasons.18:18
aelknerThis year has no report sheets deployed.18:20
aelknerah, i got to fix that one, didn't notice18:20
aelknerthat was copied from report sheet version, not edited18:20
aelknerin any event, the message has two things to translate, the thing and the state of it having been deployed18:21
aelknerin the case of templates, there is only the thing18:22
aelknerThis year has no worksheets deployed.18:22
aelknerthat one is what is currently in the course version18:22
th1aWhen are you going on vacation?18:24
aelknerwe leave for italy next thursday evening, but that might as well be considered a travel day18:25
aelkneri was thinking next wed as my last day18:26
aelkneri get home jan 818:26
aelkneralso, a travel day, of course18:26
aelknerso i can meet you on the 9th18:26
aelknerah, that's monday18:26
aelknerok, so i'll be at the meeting, then18:26
th1aOK, so here's the way I REALLY want this to work from the user's perspective now.18:27
th1aOK, so IF I am a course leader and I'm teaching a section of this course.18:28
th1ajust a sec18:29
th1aI should have an action that will:18:31
th1a1) convert the current worksheet activities to a course worksheet18:31
th1a2) give me a dialog that lets me select which terms to deploy it to.18:31
th1aSo essentially one step deployment from the gradebook.18:32
th1aMake sense?18:32
th1aAlso: this is important -- we need to make sure that these worksheets are copied over into a new year if the courses are copied.18:33
aelknerso, last point, first18:36
aelkneri was thinking about that but didn't know how you were going to want that18:36
aelknerso copy both the templates and the deployment to the next year18:37
th1aThe templates.18:37
th1aLet's leave it at that for now.18:37
aelknerthat'll work18:37
th1aSince the term structure might even be different.18:37
aelkneri need to address the issue in the current year about a section being added after a course deployment is made18:38
aelknerlike with report sheets, where i set up a subscriber, i need that for course deployments18:38
aelknerthe tricky part about that is that in the case of report sheets, the section created event was enough18:39
aelknerto deploy the report sheets to the section18:39
aelknerin the case of course deployments, the section has to have that course in it's list of courses18:39
aelknerand i haven't tracked down when that gets set18:39
aelknerso i'll have to figure that out, but, we'll just copy templates forward to next year18:40
aelknerok, now for the points 1) and 2)18:40
aelknerso, if i am a course leader, sitting in the gradebook for whatever current worksheet of a curren course18:41
aelkneri need a, what, Action link?, that brings up a dialog that allows selecting the terms18:42
th1aSure Action.18:43
aelknerand then adds the current worksheet as a template (or not) and deploys a copy to the course for the selected terms18:43
aelkneri guess the template copy is not necessary?18:43
th1aIt makes it a template and deploys it.18:44
aelknerok, sounds good18:44
aelknerit's just a step-saver18:44
aelknerAction link text?18:45
th1aDeploy as Course Worksheet18:45
aelknerproblem with our lnksets is the two line wrap18:46
aelkneri was glad when you wanted to move Customize Worksheet Templates from action for that reason18:46
aelknerDeploy to Course?18:47
aelknerthat might fit on one line18:47
th1aThat could work.18:48
th1aTry that.18:48
th1aI don't have a problem with running into two lines if there aren't a lot of links anyhow.18:49
aelknerok, we could go with Deploy as Course Worksheet18:50
th1aStart with that.18:50
aelknerso while we are talking about taking a snapshot of the current worksheet and deploying18:51
aelknerthe user will always have to recover if they change their mind after deploying18:52
aelknereven the slightest change to a title, they need to redeploy, hide old deployment18:52
aelknerthis is true for report sheets, of course, but i wanted to offer it up for comparison18:53
th1aIf you need to do that, you have to go to course.18:54
aelknerto hide the old one18:54
aelknerone thing, though, i jsut relized18:55
aelknerthe id of a worksheet added by a user is one type18:55
aelkneri then have had the report sheet ids look different18:56
aelknerso that a user could create one that collides in id with the report sheet18:56
aelkneryear_term_index, as you remember from the hide discussion18:56
aelkneranyway, i chose 'course'_courseid_term_index for course deployments18:57
aelknerso i guess it'll be ok, i can change the current worksheet's id 'in place'18:57
aelknerto be that of the matching deployed id for all the other sections18:58
aelkneryou didn't need to know that, actually :)18:58
aelkneri just heard a little bell off that i had to make sure that changing a worksheet does not break grades18:59
th1aI don't want to hear about your data model problems.18:59
th1aAll set?19:00
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aelknerso that's a cool new addition that i can do19:01
aelknerand i have a week yet before leaving19:01
aelknerwe don't have go over any more of the text now if you'd like to rest again19:01
aelkneri know i'd like to take a nap soon19:01
aelknerbut if you want, we could continue with text19:01
aelknerat least one quick thing:19:02
aelknerthe activities listed in the report sheet templates view have in the scoresytem column19:02
th1aWe can sort the text out later.19:02
aelknerComment or genreated19:02
aelknerbut i thought, maybe having the min max would be more helpful19:03
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aelknerthis was my silly attempt to improve on 'generated':19:04
th1aWhat does generated mean anyhow?19:04
aelknerranged values scoresystem19:04
aelkneryou came up with Full credit as a title for Max19:05
aelkneri just know how to present the labels, values in a cell of a table19:05
aelkneraj, the column label, silly me19:05
aelknernot when Comment can be mixed with generated19:06
aelknercan we tweak what i came up with in the course case?19:06
th1aJust the (0 / 100) is fine.19:06
th1aIt isn't that hard to understand.19:07
th1aOr just 0 - 10019:07
aelknerdefinitely include the ()?19:07
th1aJust the numbers.19:07
aelknerok, cool19:07
th1aIt is pretty obvious.19:07
aelknerso i can do the same for report sheets19:07
aelknerok, we can leave other text for later19:08
replaceafillmenesis, i'm getting test errors in devmode and sampledata related to in flourish trunk19:09
replaceafillpython2.7 on 11.1019:09
th1aAll set aelkner?19:10
menesisreplaceafill: apidoc dependency is conditional, should not get any errors19:10
* aelkner goes to take a nap19:11
menesisreplaceafill: but email me the tracebacks, will fix19:11
replaceafillmenesis, kk19:11
replaceafillmenesis, btw, do you know if it's possible to set the LANG=C in ubuntu?19:11
replaceafilli have to change my system language settings every time i want to run the tests19:11
replaceafilllog out/log in back...19:12
replaceafillin Debian, i only used: LANG=C bin/test19:12
menesisreplaceafill: apidoc is in the buildout.cfg [test] section, so should not get any errors19:13
menesisit is possible, of course. maybe try LANGUAGE=C bin/test19:13
menesisbut why you need that at all?19:13
replaceafilli get spanish output in one (some?) test if i don't set it19:14
menesisthere were 3 tests failing19:14
menesisin test_main19:14
menesisbut I have fixed that long ago19:14
replaceafilli'll try LANGUAGE19:15
* replaceafill is getting the apidoc errors to email them to menesis19:15
replaceafilloh, it's zope.deprecation's fault apparently19:16
replaceafillmenesis, log sent19:17
replaceafilli'll try the LANGUAGE setting now19:17
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replaceafillmenesis, with no LANG*19:23
replaceafilland Spanish Ubuntu session19:23
replaceafilli'm trying LANGUAGE=C make testall now19:24
replaceafillmenesis, great! LANGUAGE=C did it :)19:26
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menesisI moved all messages to avoid them translated in tests. except this one.19:36
menesisI also downgraded zope.deprecation to 3.4.119:36
replaceafillmenesis, thanks 0 failures, 0 errors now19:50
menesisreplaceafill: fixed the translated test output20:03
replaceafillthanks, i'll pull20:03
* menesis bye20:10
replaceafillbye menesis20:11
replaceafillth1a, should this be a primary (teal) button?
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th1areplaceafill:  Yes.20:23
replaceafillth1a, kk20:23
replaceafillth1a, english question :)20:39
replaceafillis 'non-closeable-dialog' correct?20:39
replaceafillor at least kind of? :)20:39
th1aUm... not really.  What are you referring to?20:39
replaceafilli want to set a css class for dialogs that can't be closed by the X button or ESC key20:39
replaceafillbut i can't think of a good name :(20:40
replaceafillah, that works :)20:40
* replaceafill goes to get lunch, back in 1h20:41
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