IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-04-18

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th1ahi aelkner, replaceafill, yvl, menesis.16:32
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:33
yvlgood morning16:33
th1aOK, menesis, how are we looking release-wise?16:34
menesisI spent last week in bed with a cold16:34
th1aFeeling better?16:35
menesisnevertheless, I have reviewed and merged the branches that I neglected for a few weeks16:35
menesis(not yet sound, but better)16:35
menesismerged translations, and report branches16:36
menesismade releases - schooltool 1.6.0b1 and gradebook 0.9.0b2 to match it16:36
menesissadly this means new strings and little time for translators16:37
menesisI have moved the translations that were in gradebook and are now in core16:37
menesiswill package and upload to ubuntu today16:38
menesisthe intervention refactoring is quite messy, have not merged any of it yet, but plan to shape it into a release as well16:39
th1aIs there anything that could happen that could make us *not* get into Natty universe now?16:40
aelknerhow is it messy?16:40
menesisa lot has changed but commits do several things at once, so hard to read16:42
aelkneri tried to keep my commits as simple as possible, but the changes were complex16:42
menesisat least, moving/refactoring/renaming has to be a separate commit16:43
menesisfrom bugfixes or new features16:43
menesisbecause if code is moved and then changed, it's hard to see what was changed16:44
aelknercan you point to a revision as an example?16:45
menesisbut the end result is what counts, will handle :)16:45
menesisjust not enough energy to do it last week16:45
menesisth1a: we are in natty. just the version is old. I will upload newer ones today.16:47
th1aOK, excellent.16:48
menesisFinal Freeze is on Thursday16:48
menesisof course, I could have done more stuff, and earlier16:48
th1aI did a fresh OS install on my laptop and everything worked fine, schooltool-wise16:49
menesisone can always make things better.16:49
menesisbut still, we are in, and it works.16:49
th1aWe'll focus more on exactly what gets in next time around.16:49
th1aI didn't want to overwhelm you.16:50
menesisI have overlooked a few branches that needed merging a month earlier than I did16:50
th1aWe'll do a better job on that end next time.16:51
menesisso some pressure when I neglect tasks I'm assigned is helpful16:51
th1aI was gentle this time through.16:51
th1aAnyhow, let's move on.16:52
th1aThanks menesis.16:52
th1ayvl:  By my records we're in the final week of your project?16:52
yvlok, with my report...16:53
yvldid rest of calendar integration last week16:53
yvlsection timetable evolution16:53
yvlcalendar event evolution (including modified descriptions and booked events)16:53
yvlnearly implemented exception days16:54
yvlstill a ton to do, so it's a good question if I make the deadline16:54
yvlthere's a lot of broken tests still16:55
yvljournal integration is not complete (though shouldn't be hard)16:55
yvlimport/export views are not done yet16:55
yvland there are other small loose ends left16:56
yvlwell, at least we will definitely have a working implementation at the end of the week16:56
th1aYes, please.16:56
yvlall the risky parts are done16:56
yvlthe rest is gruntwork16:57
yvljust a lot of it16:57
yvland I'm definitely burned out at the moment16:57
th1aWell, power through one more week.16:57
th1aI'm not going to be sweating the loose ends.  We just need to see something working.16:58
yvlI'd like to put a break on it after this week though16:58
yvland finish the cleanup another time16:58
th1aThat's what I'm thinking.16:58
yvlevolution seems to work though :)16:58
th1aI'm itching to get the UI work going.16:59
* yvl too16:59
th1aThat'll be next.16:59
yvlthere is also Critical Links stuff16:59
th1aI know, but I'm starting to fear we won't have time to get the UI done.17:00
yvlprobably something else17:00
yvlI agree it's on top of the list17:00
th1aI really want to have a new UI in the next release.17:00
yvlcan't blame you ;)17:00
yvlok, one more week.17:01
th1aKeep pushing.17:01
yvlwill do17:01
th1aAre you taking some time off next week?17:01
yvlI was thinking about that17:02
yvlif it's ok, I'll see how it goes17:02
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th1aFeel free.17:02
yvlI'll email you if I do take a short break17:03
th1aThanks yvl!17:03
menesisnext Monday is Easter holiday17:03
th1aaelkner:  Are you done now with the section linking project?17:03
th1aShould we meet next Tuesday?17:03
yvlthats fine by me17:04
menesisI think so17:04
th1aOK, Tuesday it is.17:04
aelknerth1a, yes, i'm done17:04
replaceafill+1 on tuesday meeting :)17:04
aelknertuesday's fine for me17:04
th1aSettled then.17:04
yvlaelkner, just please fix the tiny thing I emailed you about today17:05
yvlthe one with i18n17:05
aelkneryvl, are you talking about the div translate thing17:05
aelkneri have an issue with that17:06
aelkneri was trying to say in my email last week17:06
yvlI may have misunderstood17:06
aelknersentence order is not the same for all languages17:06
aelknergerman, for instance, puts verbs at the end17:06
aelknergod knows what khmer does17:06
yvlumm, and?17:07
yvlsection ${section_title} for term ${term_title}17:07
yvlcan be translated to17:07
yvlterm ${term_title} with section ${section_title}17:08
yvli18n:name does basically what you did in python17:08
aelknerright, because the translation string in whole is one uit17:08
replaceafillaelkner i guess it's the translator work to use your message names correctly17:08
aelkneronly in the python case17:08
aelknernot the page template17:08
yvli18n:translate specifies the message17:09
yvlinside it, dynamically generated elements must have i18n:name set17:09
yvlso that they get replaced with useful hints for translators17:09
yvland not section ${dynamic_content} for term ${dynamic_content}17:09
aelknerok, forgive my not understanding the job of the translator17:09
* th1a forgives all.17:10
aelknerbut i thought that they can create any version of a python translation string17:10
aelknerbecause it goes in a po file, right?17:10
aelknerbut they can't change page templates17:10
yvltranslation strings are extracted from templates also17:11
aelknerbut it's not just translation strings17:11
yvlwhen we run make extract-translations17:11
aelkneryou have html elements containing other html elements17:11
yvla short note:17:12
yvlif you do something like this17:12
yvl<p i18n:translate=""> <a href="foo.html">Link!</a> </p>17:12
yvlthe message will be:17:12
yvl <a href="foo.html">Link!</a>17:12
yvlso translators WILL get the HTML fragments17:12
replaceafilland they can break it ;)17:13
yvland we should avoid doing this17:13
yvlbut, sometimes it is useful to put links, or titles, or whatever17:13
yvl<p i18n:translate=""> <a i18n:name="some_link" tal:replace="item/@@link" /> </p17:14
yvland translators will get, in this case17:14
yvl <p i18n:translate=""> Follow this link: <a i18n:name="some_link" tal:replace="item/@@link" /> </p>17:14
yvlFoolow this link ${some_link}17:14
yvlIt is a good practice to look at how translations get compiled for your new pages17:15
yvlmake compile-translations17:15
yvland look at schooltool.pot17:15
yvlmake extract-translations17:16
th1aWe're definitely at a point where sweating translation details is important.17:16
yvlwe are going international nowadays ;)))17:16
yvlwell, I hope this helped a little bit17:17
th1aClear as mud, aelkner?17:17
aelkneras mud :)17:18
yvlaelkner, you can always search for i18n:name and i18n:attribute in schooltool code17:18
aelkneri can make the change yvl wants even if i understand why it will work out17:18
aelkneralso, i found another bug related to terms titled 'First'17:19
aelknerin the schoolyears view17:19
aelknerso i will fix that and add it to my branch17:19
aelkneroh, above, i meant to say, 'even if i don't understand'17:19
yvlwasn't that fixed already?17:19
aelkneri fixed the schoolyear view17:20
aelknerbut the problem also happens in the schoolyears view17:20
yvloh, ok17:20
aelknerso i'll get you the two changes tonight, but otherwise, i'm done17:21
* th1a is trying to remember what's next on your list.17:22
menesisaelkner: please do bugfixes in your older branch, not the feature branch like term_linkage17:23
aelknermenesis, i started term_linkage with the first bugfix for schoolyear view17:24
aelknerso it would be most convenient for me if i could just add the second fix to the same branch17:24
menesisok. can you branch from that point and push a new branch17:24
menesisbecause I am not merging the term_linkage into final release17:25
aelknerwhat's the command for branching from a point?17:25
menesisbzr branch . -r 2345 ../new-branch17:26
th1aaelkner: journal integration in gradebook?17:27
aelknerth1a, i dunno, should we figure this out on the phone after the meeting?17:27
th1aDidn't we figure this out when you were in Providence?17:27
th1aDidn't either of us write anything down?17:28
aelknerlet me check17:29
th1aAnyhow, let's move on for the moment.17:30
replaceafilllast week i was swamped in rml reports17:30
replaceafilltwo questions on this:17:30
replaceafillwe can rotate pages in rml now, correct?17:31
replaceafillaelkner you used rotation in niepa, right?17:31
yvlaelkner is the man to ask for details ;)17:31
aelkneryes, but it is not flexible17:31
aelkneri created a python class for the rotatable element17:32
replaceafillah ok17:32
replaceafillaelkner could you point me to the code please?17:32
aelknerbut the values for format, like padding, or other displacement values17:32
aelknerare hard-coded in the python class17:32
replaceafillalso, i know i asked this in the sprint, but i couldnt find the answer on my notes: how do you "simulate" div containers in rml?17:33
aelknerwe need a meta-type thingy17:33
aelknerso that one could configure the element from within the ml17:33
replaceafillaelkner got it17:34
replaceafillwell, i'll try to reuse what you did17:34
* yvl remembers there was a discussion, but not the outcome of it17:34
replaceafillaelkner thanks!17:35
replaceafillyvl yes, sorry that i didnt write it down :(17:35
replaceafillwell anyway...17:35
replaceafilli have more important questions ;)17:35
aelknercanvas.drawString(5, -10, self.text)17:35
aelknerthat's hard-coded!17:35
replaceafillaelkner right17:35
replaceafillok, i'll move on17:36
replaceafillcambodia has this annual exam for 9th and 12th grades17:36
replaceafillit's a one time thing17:36
replaceafill(during the year i mean)17:36
replaceafilli was thinking of handling this case using groups/sections17:36
yvlwhat's the exam of?17:37
replaceafillhowever, im not sure about courses, instructors, and stuff17:37
replaceafillit's like a general knowledge exam17:37
replaceafillwhat you have learned in low secondary and upper secondary school17:38
th1aIs this where I was saying you could create a section just for the test administration?17:38
yvlI see17:38
yvlyes :)17:38
replaceafillth1a correct17:38
replaceafilli could assing all the admins as instructors of the section, and create a dummy course17:39
yvlit's not dummy17:39
yvlit's a very valid course :)17:39
replaceafillok sorry :P17:39
replaceafilli mean, it's not a "regular" course ;)17:39
yvland instructors == evaluators == administration, I guess17:39
replaceafilldoes this sound like a valid approach?17:40
yvlit does to me17:40
replaceafillanother one:17:40
th1aI wouldn't sweat it.17:40
aelknerth1a, found my Providence notes when you're ready to discuss17:40
replaceafillthey have this report about tracking hours taught by teachers17:40
replaceafilllike, yvl teaches math 4 hours a week17:41
replaceafillcan we have metadata for the relationships?17:41
replaceafilllike the instructor relationship?17:41
th1aThat seems overly complicated.17:42
th1aIf you had timetables you'd just calculate that, right?17:42
replaceafillwould be that possible? :)17:43
th1aIs Cambodia doing timetables?17:43
replaceafillnot yet17:43
replaceafilli mean, the only part where they track time is with shifts17:43
replaceafill(morning, afternoon, evening)17:44
th1aOh, the shift thing.17:44
th1aIf each section had a # of hours per week attribute you could calculate it, right?17:44
replaceafillth1a correct17:45
th1aMaybe you should do that.17:45
th1aOr by course if possible.17:45
replaceafillthat means changing the current 'assing instructor to class' form17:45
replaceafillbut right, it's possible that way17:45
replaceafillok, i'll give it a try17:46
replaceafillthey have a report for students who dropped during the semester17:46
th1aJust try to do it in a way that will make sense when we start calculating it from timetables.17:46
replaceafillsmells like enrollment statuses :(17:46
replaceafillth1a i think this week i'll finish the current 39 reports...17:47
th1areplaceafill:  I don't think we have to do 100% of these reports to be useful.  There may be some things we put off for a year.17:48
replaceafilllike 18 are related to the 9th and 12th exams17:48
th1aIt isn't like they'll immediately be ready to use everything.17:48
th1aThe training will be slow.17:48
replaceafillth1a right17:48
th1aSo keep that in mind.17:48
replaceafillwell, if i could let something out it would be the 9th and 12th exams17:49
replaceafillat least for now17:49
replaceafilland focus on basic things like handling buildings and classrooms as resources17:49
replaceafillusing timetables, etc17:49
th1aDelivering something soonish would be preferable to getting bogged down trying to get everything ready.17:50
th1aSo use your discretion.17:50
replaceafillth1a understood17:50
th1aWe don't need a giant waterfall.17:50
replaceafillok, that's it from me17:50
* th1a pictures yvl in a barrel.17:50
yvlwith a flag17:51
th1aOK, aelkner, what's next for you?17:51
aelkner1) get rid of Term Grading from journal17:52
aelkner2) add 'Jornal Average' to drop-down in Add External Activity view17:52
aelkner3) create Abs. and Trd. columns in gradebook preferences17:52
aelkneralso have this note:17:52
aelknermonday meeting: ask what it means 'Move score systems from site manager'17:52
aelknerso let's start with that17:53
aelknerwhat does 'Move score systems from site manager' mean? :)17:53
yvlask me next Tuesday :)17:53
th1ayvl:  We just need a time estimate.17:53
yvlbasically it means they should not be stored in the site manager17:53
replaceafilli guess it's related to this one:
th1a3 days!17:53
yvlright, replaceafill17:54
aelknerreplaceafill, thanks17:55
aelknerok, so now we know the problem17:55
aelknerbut the solution to 'These should be stored in a separated container and registered in a different way'17:56
aelkneris not clear to me17:56
* yvl is looking at the code17:56
replaceafillaelkner what we talked about in the sprint was: you could have a container for the user created score systems and have a 'component' that looks for them17:57
replaceafillagain, it's like external activities and external activity17:57
replaceafillbut i know yvl will come up with something nicer :P17:58
aelknerit's the vocabulary that needs to change17:58
replaceafilland WHERE you store the score systems too17:59
aelknerit looks for utilities where it should do an adapter lookup, right?17:59
yvlutilities per-score-system should go away17:59
yvlscoresystemproxy should go awaay17:59
yvlit may be a separate task, but dependency on optionstorage should go away17:59
replaceafillremoving optionstorage = refactor categories18:00
yvlthere should be a per-school score system container18:00
yvlnot sure about exact implementation at the moment, sorry18:00
yvlright, replaceafill18:00
aelknercan we table this until another meeting?18:00
aelkneri can draw up a list of what i see that needs changing and email developers list sometime soon18:01
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aelknerbut i'm not ready to estimate how long it would take18:01
th1aI'm in Maine today and driving home tomorrow afternoon.  Back in the office Wednesday.18:03
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!18:03
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:03
aelknergreat week everyone18:03
replaceafillthanks everybody18:03
menesishave a nice drive18:03
yvla great week to you all :)18:03
aelknermenesis, the branch command worked nicely18:04
aelknerwill submit new branch and make merge request soon18:04
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replaceafillaelkner you around?22:26
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