IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-04-04

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th1aHi yvl, menesis, replaceafill, aelkner_.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aaelkner_, would you like to start us off?16:33
aelkner_well, i sent an email to the list, so that should have started a discussion16:34
aelkner_i haven't gotten any responses to our plan though16:34
th1aOh, it is stuck.16:34
aelkner_the email was not delivered?16:35
yvlumm, what email?16:35
th1aIt was held up due to attachment size.16:35
th1aI just approved it.16:35
yvlI assumed that there should be some email regarding activitiy libraries, but...16:36
aelkner_attaching two photos made it too large?!16:36
th1aTwo large photos, perhaps.16:36
th1aAnyone get it yet?16:37
yvlnot yet16:37
aelkner_so, now that you approved it, how long is it supposed to take?16:37
th1aI guess we can skip aelkner_ for now.16:37
replaceafilllast week i worked in custom demographics fields for cambodia16:38
replaceafilladded the 'staff' group for non-teaching staff16:38
replaceafillstarted to modify the add/edit forms using the approach yvl recommended16:39
replaceafillalso, i got good feedback from Chandara to many questions i had16:39
replaceafilland i also asked him to translate the jquery datepicker plugin i18n file16:39
replaceafillto khmer16:39
replaceafillthis week i'm going to work on shifts16:40
replaceafillusing levels as model16:40
replaceafillalso, i reported a few bugs that were bothering me16:40
yvlthank you :)16:41
replaceafilli could use some help here:16:41
replaceafillConfusing error message for date fields (
replaceafilli also found this problem in my new debian installation: ubuntu-environment rule should include subversion (
replaceafilland the css and javascript viewlet manager problem that we discussed in portugal: Viewlet managers for CSS and JavaScript should be ordered (
replaceafillyvl already commented about this last one16:42
* replaceafill just received aelkner's email16:43
replaceafillalso, during the week i helped fsufitchi with the allow-hosts problem16:43
replaceafillthat i think was already fixed by menesis16:43
menesisadded a workaround, yes.16:44
replaceafillany comment on the error message for date fields? :)16:44
replaceafillis it confusing?16:44
replaceafillor is just me? :)16:44
th1aNo, you're right.16:45
th1aIs there some problem with fixing it?16:45
replaceafillyvl the problem that i found is that date(...) only throws ValueError exceptions16:46
replaceafilli couldnt differentiate16:46
replaceafillif i do date(2011, 2, 30) -> ValueError16:46
replaceafillif i do (2011, 27, 2) -> ValueError16:47
yvlIn my mind, date fields accumulated enough bugs/issues to deserve a deeper look16:47
replaceafillit's not "urgent" though16:47
replaceafillyvl +116:47
th1aWe could just make the error message longer and more descriptive.16:47
yvlconversion bugs; formatting murky; date picker oldish16:47
th1aFor now.16:47
yvlyou can also do this:16:48
replaceafilli was thinking: "there was an error. make sure the date is valid and it's in format dd-mm-yyyy"16:48
yvldate(2011, 2, 1); date(2011, 2, x)16:48
replaceafill(at least for cambodia)16:48
yvlif one throws, but another doesn't..16:48
replaceafillyvl ah!!!16:48
replaceafilllike a double check16:48
yvlspecial case, but better than nothing I guess16:49
yvlsame for month16:49
replaceafilli can live with that for now :D16:49
yvlpeople can enter month 27 by mistake :)16:49
replaceafillgreat i'll try that16:49
yvlbtw, aelkner_, your email made it, but attachments didn't16:50
replaceafillth1a, that's it from me, everything going according to the march plan (now in april)16:50
* replaceafill checks aelkner's email16:50
th1areplaceafill:  Sounds good.16:50
replaceafillright, no attachments for me either16:50
th1aJust send those directly to us aelkner_.16:51
th1aI might not have paid close enough attention when approving it.16:51
replaceafillah btw, again, this one was already fixed
replaceafilland i tried to explain this one also:
th1areplaceafill, is that fix committed, released?16:52
replaceafillat least fix committed16:52
replaceafillthe change is in the gradebook egg also16:52
aelkner_photos sent16:52
replaceafilli guess released means "in ubuntu" correct?16:52
menesisnot always16:53
menesisbut yes this fix is in natty16:53
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th1a1) the interface for managing and getting to linked sections.17:08
aelkner_replaceafill, to your gmail account17:08
th1a2) just cleaning up the section view a bit.17:08
th1aFor 1) it seemed like a good sidebar use case.17:08
replaceafillaelkner_ ah i dont use that account, please remove it from your addresses17:08
th1afor 2) it just seemed like columns were better than the one unstructured one column we have now.17:08
aelkner_replaceafill, sorry, will use your yahoo account for now on17:08
replaceafillaelkner_ thanks17:08
replaceafilli got the photos now :)17:08
th1aAdmittedly, three columns there is overkill.17:08
th1aTypical going from one extreme to the other.  ;-)17:09
th1aBut that wasn't really the main concern.17:10
yvlok, I see now what you want to do with index.html17:10
yvlwould this be acceptable:17:11
yvlleft column where you pick terms17:11
yvla very large center column17:11
yvlwith current contents of the page17:11
aelkner_forcing the user to scroll down?17:11
yvlUbuntu web guide specifies the width IIRC17:11
yvlyes aelkner_17:12
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yvloh, I like it17:20
th1a(forgot to set up all the sections)17:20
th1aForgot to link them.17:20
yvla small suggestion17:20
yvlmaybe you can use a table instead of columns?17:20
yvl| Q1                |  Q2             |  Q3               |   Q4                 |17:21
yvland then list students, instructors in rows17:21
yvlOne more, somewhat random idea17:22
aelkner_what css for the table, same as sections view?17:23
yvlhorizontal space is usually somewhat limited17:23
yvlvertical space is usually treated as infinite17:23
yvlmaybe it's worth to rotate the table 90 degrees17:24
th1aaelkner_, Try to follow the ubuntu guidlines.17:29
yvl|  Term            |   Instructors              | Students               |17:29
yvl|   Q1          | Johan           |  Steve                 |17:29
yvl|                  |  Peter                  |  another student   |17:29
th1aWell, comparing the students is actually important too.17:29
yvl|                        |                      | third student17:29
yvl| ----------------------- |17:29
yvl|  Q2   | ....... | ..... |17:29
th1aAnd usually this won't be more than four, and rarely more than six.17:29
yvlgood point, th1a17:29
th1aWe'll probably add diff-like functionality to show who is added and dropped.17:29
yvlyou can just sort them17:29
yvlmake a set of total persons17:29
yvlthen assign a row per-person17:29
yvland display empty space in terms he's not in17:29
yvlok, my initial schock went away now :)17:29
th1aGood.  Send us a sketch for the main section page.17:29
yvlwill do17:29
aelkner_please by the end of today17:29
yvlyour today or my today? ;)17:29
aelkner_what about the section linkage page?17:29
aelkner_yvl, your today would also be mine17:29
th1aaelkner has to figure out how many days of css juggling to include.17:29
yvlI'd say postpone changing of index.html for now17:29
yvlbut that's just my take on it...17:29
th1aWe can do that.17:29
th1aaelkner can just add what we were going to put in the sidebar to the current page.17:29
aelkner_so an action link to get to the lnkage view?17:29
aelkner_so where then?17:30
th1aOK, just re-do the name of the page with the table we discussed and then put the term stuff underneath that.17:30
th1aSame content as proposal, one column.17:31
aelkner_ok, so i am changing index.html, but only top part17:32
aelkner_and the linkage view?17:32
aelkner_we await yvl sketch?17:32
yvlyou mean - section linkage?17:33
th1aI think that's fine as is.17:33
yvlI kind of thought that we could re-use current functionality17:33
yvljust make a overview page, that shows "status" of linked sections in a table17:34
aelkner_how is that different from what i sent?17:34
yvlumm, let me get this straight17:36
yvlI guess I call it "overview" and you call it "section linkage" view17:36
yvlthe second photo17:36
aelkner_so we already specified in the phot how it should look17:37
aelkner_any modifications?17:37
yvlyes, just don't use div columns17:37
yvldo a table17:37
aelkner_do i use existing css class, or do i create a new one?17:37
yvldo a new one17:38
yvlI don't think we have any useful css for this17:39
yvlbut I may be wrong17:39
th1aJust follow the ubuntu guidelines.17:39
yvlth1a, I don't think that there are much guidelines to follow in this case17:39
th1aAnd ASK.17:39
th1aPage 27.  ;-)17:40
aelkner_yvl, but besides table versus divs, the rest is ok?17:41
aelkner_buttons, etc.17:41
yvlright, th1a !17:41
th1aYes, aelkner_.17:41
aelkner_hopefully, the css class names i choose will be generic sounding enough for others to use later17:42
th1aOK, let's move on.17:42
th1aThanks aelkner_.17:42
menesisnot much to say17:43
menesismerged translations at last17:47
th1aAny blockages on the path to Natty?17:47
menesiswas about to make a release but then merge requests came in17:47
menesiswith plugin-meta.zcml17:47
aelkner_yes, sorry that i forgot to request merge of reports viewlet branch17:47
menesisnot sure I like the plugins changes17:47
th1aI was assuming you'd have to just put that off.17:47
menesisreports were done and ready?17:47
menesisI can still merge this for beta17:48
aelkner_reports was done pre-sprint, i just forgot to request merge17:48
menesisI knew you wanted to redo reports17:49
aelkner_ok, not true17:49
aelkner_i made changes after the sprint17:49
aelkner_to create the meta configure reportViewletdirective17:49
menesisso if you are done and th1a is happy with it then I will merge it17:49
menesisbecause that was in the plan for this release17:49
aelkner_i ame done, yvl, do you approve?17:49
replaceafilli have a question for the near future in cambodia, i have to add reports17:50
replaceafillshould i use this directive for cambodias reports?17:50
replaceafillcool, i'll read about it :)17:51
replaceafillaelkner_ expect some questions :D17:51
aelkner_replaceafill, np17:52
th1aOK... anything else, menesis?17:58
menesis(talked to yvl)17:58
yvlsorry, I distracted him a little bit17:58
menesisno, don't think I had anything to say17:58
th1aThanks, menesis.17:58
aelkner_menesis, i updated CHANGES.txt in my report branch17:58
yvlminor things:17:58
yvlsoft plugin inclusion, which menesis didn't like that much17:58
yvlwe're kind of picking a lesser of few evils, IMHO17:58
yvlsome dev support17:58
yvlmajor things:17:58
yvltimetable section scheduling17:58
yvl(timeline became tight at this point)17:58
yvland an experimental feature17:58
yvlI kind of needed it, and we'll likely use it widely in the future17:58
yvltal syntax to get content providers in a path expression17:58
yvl<tal:block content="view/something/item/schooltool:conent/table" />17:59
yvlI'll do decent documentation on that after merge to trunk17:59
replaceafilland the provider can be a viewlet manager, correct?17:59
yvlbut zope only gives18:00
replaceafillnice :)18:00
yvl"structure provider:SomeManager"18:00
yvlnow we will do18:00
yvl<tal:block  repeat="timetable view/timetables">18:01
yvl<div tal:content="timetable/schooltool:content/extra_info"18:01
replaceafillquick question18:01
yvlthat gets extra info... viewlet manager or other content on timetable18:01
replaceafillwhat's the registration for the provider18:02
replaceafilli mean, context is the item18:02
yvldidn't make a meta directive yet18:02
yvlcontext is item18:02
yvlview is current view18:02
yvlrequest is current request18:02
replaceafillah ok18:02
replaceafillgot it18:02
replaceafillinteresting :)18:02
yvlan interesting pattern emerged18:02
yvlif view implements IFormatSomeTableCells18:02
yvland has def formatCell18:02
yvlyou can register the provider on such views18:03
yvland use view.formatCell calls in the content provider18:03
replaceafillyvl you using this in your timetable branch?18:03
yvlnot pushed yet18:03
yvlbut yes18:03
replaceafillah ok18:03
* replaceafill is interested in anything that makes view more flexible :D18:04
yvlit's quite interesting, because it serves as a page macro in that sense18:04
yvladaptable page macro18:04
yvlas in - change per-context or per-view18:05
replaceafillnice :)18:05
yvlI think this will suit us fine18:05
yvlbasically the goal is to make our templates small18:06
yvland the views small18:06
yvlwe'll se how it works out18:07
yvlfor now, it looks promising18:07
replaceafillcould it be used for the gradebook?18:07
yvlwhich part do you have in mind?18:07
replaceafilli mean, the activity column18:09
replaceafillyou know, never mind, just crazy thoughts :)18:09
yvloverkill, IMHO18:09
yvlbut it should be used something like this18:09
yvlsay we look at a section18:09
yvl"structure section/getGradebook/schooltool:content/overview"18:09
replaceafillyou can insert the gradebook overview anywhere :)18:09
yvlthat is the point18:09
yvlif we do have a "right column" in the page18:09
yvland we know it's width18:10
yvlwe can register overviews of whatever we want18:11
yvlin that case they will go on viewlet manager18:11
yvlbut I think you see my point18:11
aelkner_gradebook overview has unknown width, depends on number of activities18:11
replaceafillfor one view overview could be the whole table and in another view overview could be just the averages, for instance18:11
yvloverview would be a new small view18:11
yvlyes, replaceafill18:11
yvlcontext-sensitive and view-sensitive18:11
yvlwell, we'll see how it goes :)18:11
yvlI also saw a bug change, by aelkner_ I think18:12
yvlsomething about activity libraries for courses and persons18:12
yvlgot my attention :)18:12
yvlbecause it should use something that is not yet implemented in core :)18:12
yvlbasically - copying the binding code of schooltool.group18:13
yvlor schooltool.level18:13
aelkner_yvl, th1a just brought that up18:13
yvlor some places in cambodia18:13
yvlit's an awful well of code duplication :)18:13
aelkner_and i added the bug at is request18:13
aelkner_but it is just a concept now18:13
yvlI'd like 2-4 days of tinkering before you start with that18:14
th1aIt isn't on the short list.18:14
* yvl hates evolution scripts, and I'd like to avoid them when possible18:14
yvlso that's my report18:15
th1aSo... on schedule now?18:15
yvlbut the schedule is tight18:15
th1aOK.  Keep it up.18:15
th1aStay focused.18:15
yvlwill do!18:15
th1aI went down to VA last week for the CanDo users meeting.18:15
th1aThere were about 25 people there from different counties.18:16
th1aOne cool thing is that one county got it going pretty much just with the online documentation.18:16
th1aOn the whole, people are pretty happy.18:16
th1aThere were remarkably few gripes.18:16
yvlagain - wow18:17
th1aI'll forward Welsh's notes.18:17
th1aIt was decided we wouldn't really push the "now you should start giving us money" part.18:18
th1aesp. since most of the people there aren't the ones who would give us money.18:19
th1aIt was more the mid-level administrators responsible for getting the data collected.18:20
th1aBut on the whole, it was a very positive response.18:22
th1aOK, I'll let you guys go.18:22
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!18:23
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:23
replaceafillthanks everybody18:23
yvlthanks for the good news, th1a18:23
aelkner_great week everyone18:24
yvlaelkner_, a short question if I may18:24
yvlwhat are the changes you agreed with th1a for index.html?18:24
yvlsomewhere by the end of this meeting18:24
yvl"OK, just re-do the name of the page with the table we discussed and then put the term stuff underneath that."18:24
aelkner_the term links18:25
th1aWell, the way the page is titled and the term navigation just needed to be ripped out.18:26
aelkner_and All Terms link18:26
aelkner_combine second column of photo with first18:26
aelkner_and leave everything else the same18:26
aelkner_sorry, that's ambiguous18:26
aelkner_only change foloowing:18:26
aelkner_replace section title and next/previous terms18:26
aelkner_with table shown in column two of photo18:26
aelkner_and links shown in column one18:26
aelkner_does that make sense?18:26
yvlyes it does18:26
aelkner_ok, i'll do that first18:26
yvlI think I won't send you mockups18:26
yvlkind of no need for that anymore :)18:26
aelkner_no need18:26
aelkner_you agreed with section linkage view18:26
aelkner_only table instead of divs18:26
aelkner_what about the third view?18:26
aelkner_the link to existing section view18:26
aelkner_with search widget, as i laid out in the email18:26
yvlwell, I have a little nagging feeling about creating objects after clicking links18:27
aelkner_maybe it would be best to express you feelings :)18:27
yvlI'd go with checkbox or radio button and "Add"18:27
aelkner_get them out on the table, so to speak18:27
aelkner_oh, i see18:28
yvlbecause when you have javascripty-web2.0 thing going on, like in launchpad, you can use links in search "pop-up" form to add content18:28
yvlif you don't have it, you usually use buttons18:28
yvlbut maybe it's just me18:29
yvljust putting it on the table, as you said :)18:29
aelkner_th1a, this sounds like one of those design decisions we are going to be making going forward18:29
yvlalso I didn't notice student copying in your email18:30
yvlporbably because I didn't read it thoroughly18:30
aelkner_it was 'link to existing section' action,18:30
th1aIt is implicit.18:30
aelkner_so students and teacher would presumably already be there18:30
yvlbut I remember David's comment on sources of students and teachers18:31
aelkner_th1a, so i go with the checkboxes and add button?18:31
yvlin the future we should expect various sources18:31
yvllike, group of people in 2A taking math, will be same group of people taking 2A history18:32
yvlor if a person is following a "pathway"18:32
th1aI'm neutral on that.18:32
th1ayvl:  Yes, we're approaching that as a separate issue.18:33
yvlit's just a point where we shouldn't screw things too tight18:33
yvlplugins and such may add new sources of "import people" to a section18:33
aelkner_one problem with using checkboxes18:33
aelkner_if the user clicks on two of them and hits add, that makes o sense18:33
aelkner_that's why i suggested using links that performed the lnkage18:34
yvlwe might consider radio buttons18:34
aelkner_yes, one only can be clicked18:34
aelkner_th1a, radio buttons with add button?18:34
th1aI take the fifth.18:35
th1aI'm not quite picturing it.18:35
th1aJust try it.18:36
aelkner_radio buttons it is18:36
yvland when you have screenshots of semi-shaped "linkage" page, please share18:36
th1aThat's really the best way of handling these situations.18:38
yvlwell, see you guys later18:39
yvlgood week to you all :)18:39
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