IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-03-07

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th1ahi aelkner, replaceafill, yvl, menesis.16:30
yvlmorning guys16:30
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aSo I sent out your respective plans to the development list last night so you could see what each other is doing.16:31
* replaceafill likes yvl's scary column :)16:32
aelkneri know how that feels :)16:33
th1aLet's start with some website issues.16:34
th1aAfter spending part of last week fiddling with the 960 grid system that uses, I'm starting to feel like the world of web design has passed me by.16:35
menesisI have not sent my plan yet, sorry. I have been updating and selecting tasks on weekend, but not compiled into a list to email16:35
menesisth1a: :)16:35
th1amenesis:  OK.16:35
th1aI still like simple pages.16:35
th1aBut anyhow,16:36
th1aI'm feeling like I'm wasting money fiddling with this stuff compared to just hiring a designer.16:36
th1a(this is just for our web presence)16:36
th1aAlso, I'm not talking about a hard job because I basically want something simple that fits the Ubuntu standards.16:37
th1aOne thing I could do is just hire someone in Providence.  There are plenty of competent web designers here.16:37
th1aOr perhaps you guys know someone in particular, or think you'd like to work on it with me.16:38
th1aOr you have some other idea...16:38
menesisI would like to have a designer working for us. But don't know anyone to suggest16:39
th1aThis wouldn't necessarily be the same person who we'd hire to help us with SchoolTool itself.16:40
th1aIt is a lower bar.16:40
th1aAlthough it would also be a good audition potentially.16:40
yvlI don't have anything particular in my mind16:41
yvlany good designer will do :)16:41
yvlespecially with Ubuntu Style Guide :)16:41
th1aI'm not asking for anything innovative or out of left field, so I don't think it is a big risk.16:41
yvlby the way, are you thinking of skinning ST book also?16:41
th1aOK, I'll ask around here.16:42
th1ayvl:  I guess that's another possibility.16:42
yvlit'll probably be easier for you I guess - with the time zones and all16:42
menesisare you talking about frontpage only?16:42
th1aThat's the main thing.16:43
th1aI guess it would make sense to re-skin the book at the same time, since that's sort of the rest of the site.16:43
menesisI would like to be generated by Sphinx and come as index of the Book16:43
th1amenesis:  I don't think there's a real payoff for that.16:44
th1aI mean, I wanted to do that originally, but Sphinx just isn't designed with that in mind.16:44
th1aYou're jumping through hoops you don't need to jump through.16:44
yvlwe could think about doing that eventually16:45
menesisone layout to skin...16:45
menesissphinx has themes and frontpage support16:45
yvlright, that :)16:45
th1amenesis:  OK, that might be relatively recent, or at least it was well hidden.16:46
menesisI would prefer homepage and documentation look the same.16:46
th1aI would too.16:46
yvlwell, ideally they will differ a bit16:47
menesisth1a: yes please read what's new in sphinx 1.0 maybe they have addressed issues you had?16:47
yvlby the way, do we have anything else than the front page in
yvlapart from the book, I mean?16:47
th1aOK, I'll get back up to speed with Sphinx.16:47
th1ayvl:  I don't think so.16:48
replaceafillmost links in go either to the book or launchpad16:48
yvlso there's the two things to skin :)16:49
th1aOK, I'll look at Sphinx and try to come up with a plan.16:49
yvlby the way, I'm really happy with your decision, th1a :)16:49
th1aMoving on somewhat.16:49
th1aThe shitty server hosting seems to be warning of its impending death.16:49
yvl(hopefully we won't end up with messy css generated by SomePageDesignProgram)16:49
menesisSphinx 1.1 will also have document translation support. and that will be needed16:50
th1aYes, ok, I will spend some time with the Sphinx docs.16:50
menesisso, what about the server16:51
th1aI for one would be ok at this point with accepting PoV's offer to host schooltool.org16:51
th1aSince it is just a few static pages at this point I don't imagine it would be a problem.16:51
th1aUnless we end up having some kind of latency issues or something since you're so far away from everything else.16:52
menesisit is my wish, do not know is a offer16:52
yvljust had a chat with alga16:52
yvlso we're ok with hosting ST16:53
menesisthere is a bzr and svn repository that are used somewhat, also buildbot master, and all downloads16:53
yvl(and we've upgraded our internet connection recently)16:53
th1aWas that your fiber connection alga was showing off?16:53
yvlyep :)16:53
th1aI think you can handle it then.16:54
menesisbut buildbot would be first thing that I move16:54
th1aIf you could just make sure you have a backup of the site and book files, that would be prudent.16:54
menesisandrsync will be enough for most things16:55
menesisth1a: sure16:55
th1aOK.  So we'll go in that direction.16:56
th1aHopefully at our own pace and not because the shitty server died.16:56
menesisthat, too16:56
menesisdid not have many problems with the server16:57
menesisbut I don't have control of DNS16:57
menesisto create subdomains like or rename download site to something other than ftp...16:58
th1aYes, I don't know if we can transfer that.17:00
th1aOK, anything else to add this week while I've got you talking menesis?17:01
menesisI have been updating launchpad re: blueprints, wiki, bugs, milestones17:02
menesiswill have to ask you to do something, Tom17:02
menesiscommunicate with Jonathan to highlight SchoolTool as a new feature in Edubuntu release notes17:03
menesismaybe it's too late to be approved into Edubuntu itself17:04
th1aIt probably isn't.  I'll see.17:04
menesisbut ST is available in universe since apha 317:04
th1aOK.  So I can go ahead assuming we're in Natty Universe.17:05
menesiswe are17:05
menesisbut we would like to get into edubuntu server seed17:05
th1aI'll talk to Jonathan about it.17:05
replaceafillmenesis, btw i tried installing the ckeditor and python-pastescript before schooltool in natty and i still get the error in zope.html17:06
menesismore. emailed cjwatson asking to update my packagesets17:06
th1aAnything else menesis?17:06
th1areplaceafill:  It worked for me.17:06
menesiscannot update schooltool packages until that happens17:06
replaceafillth1a, weird... will try with a fresh natty again17:07
menesisbut I still have some 16 zope packages to update that I have rights17:07
menesisalpha3 freeze is over will do this first17:08
menesisthen fix the schooltool install errors17:08
menesislike replaceafill said. but I am not aware about anything else preventing install17:09
menesismerge translations17:10
menesisthen send a call for translations17:11
th1aOh... I want to make a couple small changes to the footer.17:11
menesisnew strings in core and gradebook17:11
th1aPerhaps I should just walk through that with replaceafill.17:12
menesisI haven't merged translations yet, halfway done17:12
th1a(basically just get rid of the giant bug button -- I think we're past that point now)17:12
th1aOK, thanks menesis, we should probably move on.17:13
menesisif you have new strings to add or something to change then please do. this week if you can.17:13
th1aWill do.17:13
menesisth1a: thanks17:13
th1amenesis:  Thank you!17:14
yvlFriday - day off17:14
yvleverything else mostly according to plan, but priorities changed17:15
yvlstarted with container views,17:15
yvlthen did some underlying refactorings17:15
yvl(small ones)17:15
yvlchanged annoying traversing adapters17:15
yvladded mocking for our integration tests17:16
yvl(that one was for evolution, actually)17:16
yvlso we will be able to write in doctests, something like....17:17
yvlone sefc17:17
yvlsee @mock in few places17:19
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yvlit basically takes classes or methods17:19
yvland puts in imaginary module 'schooltool.traverser.test_pluggable'17:19
replaceafilldecorators, nice :)17:19
yvlI'll use this code for moving classes during evolution17:20
yvlwith some work17:20
yvland now I'm working on the timetable wizard17:21
yvlwhich should be working very soon17:21
replaceafillyvl, could i use a <adapter ...> zcml directive in a unit test instead of doing the provideAdapter(...) call?17:22
yvlwell, these are unit tests, so :)17:22
yvljust not in every unit test, please17:22
replaceafilland it's exactly the same?17:22
replaceafillah! cool17:22
th1aYou following this aelkner?17:23
yvlbut it uses zope machinery, so I'd prefer not to use them in small tests17:23
* replaceafill added unit tests to cambodia recently and had to set up provideAdapter(...) calls17:23
yvlalso, you need to include other zope's zcml17:23
yvlthat registers adapter directives17:23
aelkneri'm lloking at the branch now17:24
replaceafillah! line 99 has an adapter directive :)17:24
yvlbut note this:
yvl    zcml.include('')17:25
yvl    zcml.include('schooltool.traverser', file='meta.zcml')17:25
yvl    zcml.include('schooltool.traverser')17:25
yvlthis is heavy and slow stuff17:25
yvlstill - it's useful when you want to test and explain in doctest... say your new metadirectives17:25
yvlfor example - report directives17:26
* menesis likes this zcml helper17:26
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th1aWould you like an example of that, aelkner?17:27
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yvlthere is actually one more thing we can do with this eventually :)17:28
replaceafillsorry, got disconnected17:28
yvlnp, replaceafill :)17:28
yvl@mock also can overwrite existing modules17:28
yvlI haven't tested that a lot, obviously17:28
yvlbut it should be possible to do something like this in the test:17:29
aelkneri'm not sure what we're talking about exactly17:29
yvlclass AppInit(object): # this is a fake for this test17:29
* replaceafill remembers seeing this fake module approch in the old days of grok :)17:29
yvlaelkner, this is an example (in my branch, not trunk yet!), of pluggable traverser documentation17:31
yvlthis example is also a test17:31
yvlbecause ST adds directives, like adapterTraverserPlugin17:31
yvlanother example is in securitypolicy:
yvlthat one is a bit older, it does not use @mock yet17:32
yvlreport package adds reportLink directive17:32
yvlso it would be nice to write a guide how to use it in the same style17:33
aelknerah, i see17:33
yvlthese are actually unit tests, keep in mind ;)17:33
aelknerso this is in the area of 'developer documentation'17:34
aelkneri wasn't sure what the subject was17:34
th1aOK.  Moving on.17:34
th1aAnything else, yvl?17:34
yvljust to sum up17:34
yvlI've moved a decent amount forward,17:35
yvlbut picking some hours in area of various tasks, so no separate tasks finished17:35
yvlthis week's goal is17:35
yvlcontainer views, timetable wizard, some timetable views17:36
yvlthat's it :)17:36
th1aOK, thanks yvl.17:36
th1aAlso: Oneiric Ocelot.17:36
replaceafillfirst question for yvl17:37
replaceafillin the gradebook, current Evaluation objects are NOT persistent17:37
replaceafilli mean in trunk17:37
replaceafillthey're persisted though their container17:38
replaceafilland they work17:38
yvlthey are picklable, so :)17:38
replaceafilleven if they don't have the persistent attributes, right?17:39
replaceafillthe _p_ something something17:39
* replaceafill doesnt know the right name sorry :(17:39
yvlbut if you modify them, the persistance mechanism will not be triggered17:39
yvlyou may notice comments like "ping persistence" in some of the oldest parts of ST17:40
* replaceafill wonders what happens when i change somebody's grade!??!17:40
yvlself.some_container = self.some_container17:40
yvlprobably a new evaulation is entered?17:40
yvlor the parent container - whatever that is - touched17:40
yvlmy vote is - put a fat XXX there17:41
replaceafillok, i'll look into that17:41
replaceafillgot it17:41
yvlthat they should be persistent someday17:41
replaceafillcool, will do17:41
replaceafillalso, i changed the zc.datetimewidget to use jquery ui datepicker in cambodia17:42
replaceafilli just registered a new template for the date field in the cambodia layer and it worked17:42
replaceafillbut i was thinking that maybe the template is not really necessary17:43
replaceafilli could do it with a klass attribute in a widget class17:43
replaceafilli'll experiment with it this week17:43
replaceafillth1a, i think i've covered the first week of the plan17:44
replaceafilli just havent been able of getting rid of the custom gradebook class in cambodia17:44
replaceafilli still need some methods in it17:44
th1aSuch as?17:44
replaceafillfor this week, i'll update the average formulas for 11 and 12 grades17:44
replaceafillth1a, i was using a custom gradebook class to know if the section was a primary school class or a secondary school class17:45
replaceafillif it used a monthly layout or a semester layout17:45
replaceafilldefinitely have to clean that part17:46
replaceafill(that's why i added it to the plan!)17:46
replaceafillah last question for yvl17:46
th1aOK, always bear in mind that these are concepts we might want to merge into trunk in a somewhat more generic way.17:46
replaceafilldo you think it's ok to calculate an annual average adapting (student, schoolyear)17:47
replaceafilland having all the logic for calculating the average in that adapter?17:47
replaceafilli was thinking of having adapters for (student, term) and use those17:47
replaceafillbut in cambodia 1 year = 1 term anyway17:47
yvlhmm, looks like an overkill from the first glance17:48
yvlwhere do you want to put that adapter?17:48
replaceafillyvl, i'll push my changes so i can get your comments17:48
replaceafillcreate an adapter like the one we have for the worksheet17:49
yvlumm, it will be much easier if you push the changes17:49
replaceafillbut again, i'll better show you the code :)17:49
replaceafillth1a, that's all from me17:49
yvland point me to the line where you want to use it and "what the adapter!" :)17:49
th1aThanks replaceafill.17:50
aelknerthe intervention adapter refactoring went well, yvl thanks for the speedy feedback17:50
aelkneri can add IContact adapters which is a trivial change17:51
aelkneri'm not sure about your desire to have XXX for the auto-vivify comment17:51
aelknerwhat does XXX mean exactly in that case?17:51
yvlthat is very wrong we need to fix it17:52
aelknerif it's wrong, why not fix it ow?17:52
aelknerand if so, how?17:52
yvlsorry, haven't looked at where to put it17:52
aelknerthe issue is this:17:52
yvlbasically, the database write needs to happen in another place17:52
yvlof code17:52
yvlit is bad to write in something called cell_formatter17:53
yvlthat basically formats a string (link)17:53
yvlit's not broken - as in - it works17:53
yvlbut it's a very unusual place to do so17:53
aelknerit's an unusual use case, wouldn't you say?17:54
yvlYes.  But what if somebody refactors out the cell formater?17:54
yvlI mean the use of it?17:54
yvlbasically the code needs to be put somewhere else17:55
yvlif following the link creates the desired intereventionXXX object, then we're fine, right?17:55
aelknerwhen the user clicks on the link, if the object doesn't already exist, they get NotFound17:56
aelknerthat's why i needed to auto-vivify there17:56
yvlthen maybe a traverser could create the object?17:56
yvlit would be somewhat nicer17:56
aelkneri could look into that17:57
yvlI mean, if you traverse from somethingsomething container to the intervention student, IIRC,17:57
yvlit should check if it needs to be added17:57
aelknerright now, the standard traversal of containers is being used17:57
aelknerso i would need to override that, right?17:58
yvlwhat's the container again?17:58
aelknerInterventionSchoolYear contains InterventionStudent17:59
yvlah, right17:59
aelknerbtree traversal is automatic17:59
aelknerso what would be the method of overriding it?17:59
yvla sec...17:59
yvlsee app/configure.zcml18:01
yvland traverser/traverser.py18:01
yvlyou can write your custom traverser and register it18:01
yvlon the other hand, I refactored it just recently :)18:01
yvlmaybe I should merge that work to trunk18:02
aelknerwhat if the user types the link into the browser themselves and they specify a student that doesn't exist?18:02
aelknerat least the cell_formatter only creates links that make sense18:02
aelknerand auto-vivifying them there makes sure they work18:02
yvlright - you should create intervention students for students that make sense18:03
aelkneri guess it's ok to give the user NotFound if they type in a bad student themselves as part of the path18:03
th1a If people enter bogus URL's that's their problem.18:04
yvlit's a desired behaviour to show NotFound18:05
yvlwhen an object is not found in the system18:05
aelknerok, i'll look into that next week as part of the overall test coverage phase18:05
yvlcool :)18:05
aelknerfor now, after adding the IContact adapters, i'll move on to the relationships refactoring18:05
aelknerso that i can get you that change by the end of the week18:06
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aelkneri may have a question for you about evolution testing some time in the middle of the week18:06
aelknerbut otherwise, i feel good about what i need to do18:07
aelknerte change enters under the category of scary :), but i'm sure i can handle it18:07
aelknerthat's it for me18:08
th1aOK.  Sounds good aelkner.18:08
yvlif anything - don't hesitate to email ;)18:08
th1aI think we had some good discussion here today.18:08
th1aI should be getting a SSD to go with my Pandaboard this week, so we'll see how fast one of these things can run SchoolTool.18:09
th1aIt is pretty cool to magically have ARM debs now.18:09
th1aOK, have a great week gentlemen!18:10
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:10
replaceafillth1a, tomorrow i'm leaving to atlanta, so i'll be offline most of the day i guess18:10
th1aOK replaceafill.  Have a good trip.18:10
yvlwell, great week everyone18:10
aelknergreat tip replaceafill18:10
replaceafillthanks th1a18:10
yvland happy 'Con, replaceafill!18:10
replaceafillthanks aelkner18:10
replaceafillthanks yvl :D18:10
aelknersay hi to jelkner for me :)18:11
replaceafillwill do :)18:11
yvlmaybe it's me, but it feels like things picked up some speed after the sprint :)18:13
replaceafillah! evaluations are replaced when you change them!!!18:14
replaceafillyou were right yvl18:14
replaceafillthe persistent parent is touched every time18:14
yvlguess what happens if someone forgets that :D18:14
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th1aThat was quick!19:23
th1aSSD drive arrived.19:23
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th1aI like this look:
* replaceafill notices th1a likes gray :D20:11
th1aWell... I actually particularly like it for an SIS I think.20:13
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th1aWell, interactive performance is vastly better with the SSD.22:25
replaceafilli'm sold! i'm getting a ssd! :)22:26
th1aIt is much better than running your system off a compact flash card.  ;-)22:27
th1aAlso, better than floppies.22:27
th1aAnd cassette tapes (which is what I started with).22:28
th1aHolding up so far loading sample data...22:32
replaceafillhey! we have to make that change!!!22:33
replaceafilli mean, the small xls sample data22:33
th1aThere's a bunch of little things.22:33
* replaceafill reviews his notes... (why that is not there?)22:34
th1aI believe it is in the "all the CL patches" bin.22:36
th1aBut basically we're not jamming things in the release to maintain menesis's sanity.22:36
th1aWe're running at between 5 and 10 watts with everything pegged, btw.22:38
replaceafilli guess i didnt take notes during helder's presentation... and i think that topic was discussed that first day...22:39
* replaceafill wonders how many watts does a netbook requires22:39
th1aThe screen is the biggest cost.22:40
th1aBut generally, this would be the guts of an ARM netbook.22:41
th1aHm... that didn't end well.22:45
th1aThink I'd better turn swapon.  ;-)22:51
replaceafilldoes natty install with no swap by default?22:52
th1aOn this?  Probably.22:52
th1aNo swap on the CF card.22:53
th1aAlso, there is apparently some issue with using the full 1g of RAM right now.22:54
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