IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-01-31

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th1ahi yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:30
yvlmorning guys16:31
yvlsome travel notes16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:32
yvloh, ok, later on16:32
yvlI got lost in mail :)16:32
yvlI thought to update on our travel status16:33
yvlbut it turns out there's some misscomunication on my part16:33
yvland I don't know the status16:34
th1aStatus of your plans in particular or our plans in general?16:34
yvlour plans16:35
yvljust confirmed with Aiste16:35
yvlso yes, we'll arrive late Sun16:35
yvl7PM at Lisbon16:35
th1aI'm going to be talking with Alex tomorrow and nailing the rest of the arrangements down.16:36
yvlmy guess is 10-12 PM at Coimbra16:36
yvland we leave 6 AM from Porto16:36
yvljust FYI16:37
th1aWe'll get to Lisbon 8:10 AM.16:38
th1areplaceafill:  You're on the same flight, yes?16:38
replaceafillyes, i'll meet you and aelkner in newark16:38
th1aWe can talk about agenda items a little later.16:39
th1aLet's do reports quickly.16:39
th1aAny comments about aelkner's email?16:40
th1aAm I going to have to write report descriptions that aren't longer versions of the titles?16:40
replaceafillaelkner, i saw lots of references :)16:41
aelkneryou could help with that :)16:41
aelknerreplaceafill, where?16:41
replaceafillin your code16:41
aelkneri should do a global search and replace16:41
aelkneri thought i got rid of them16:41
aelknerbasically, i used that package as a model for creating the new package16:42
replaceafill"Functional tests for"16:42
aelknerok, i'll fix those16:42
yvlum uh?16:43
* yvl is a little bit sleep-deprived today16:43
yvlcomments on aelkner's email16:44
yvldidn't go through the diff very thoroughly16:44
yvlbut it seems ok16:44
yvllots of "configuration" duplication16:44
yvlbut it is very ok at this poin16:44
yvlwe'll fix with meta-directives or something alike16:45
yvlso - no comments at the moment16:45
yvlmaybe I missed something, but it all looks ok, aelkner  :)16:45
aelknerwell, i need it merged by the end of the week16:46
aelknerbut please take a closer look soon so that i can make improvements16:46
aelkneralso, i need to write tests16:46
yvlyes, please ;)16:47
aelknerand i was hoping you could advise me on how to write functional tests in schooltool.report16:47
aelknerwhen there are no reports to show if schooltool.gradebook is not in the picture16:47
yvlit would be nice to show how the reports can be added16:48
yvland that adding works16:48
yvllike in.......16:48
yvlit is a hybrid between unit and functional tests16:49
yvland is in form of documentation16:50
aelkneri could use that as a model16:50
aelknerwill it be a problem getting the merges of both packages to happen at the same time16:51
aelknerok, good16:51
yvlsecurity_descriptions.txt is somewhat experimental, so don't be surprised if something is not obvious or very convenient16:51
th1aMy interpretation of "feature freeze" is you need to have your merge request in by that point.16:51
aelknermeaning i will be allowed to make corrections after that?16:52
th1aI primarily meant that menesis doesn't have to do the merge before the deadline.16:53
th1aBut also, the intent of "feature freeze" is no new features after that point.16:53
th1aBut certainly bugfixes, small changes, etc.16:53
aelknerok, besides tests, th1a, is there something else you would want?16:54
aelknerbetter descriptions, of course16:54
th1aThat's basically what I had in mind.16:55
th1aA better title for the page.16:55
aelknercould you email me suggestions for better titles, descriptions please?16:56
th1aMoving on?16:57
aelkneri'm done16:57
replaceafillwe have a quick response from cambodia :)16:57
th1aYes, it is excellent.16:57
replaceafillbasically, they're answering on of my questions about teachers assignments and asking us to update the subject list16:58
replaceafillwill work on that today and send a reply16:58
replaceafilllast week i fixed several bugs that i had reported on the gradebook16:58
replaceafillat the end of the week i worked on fixing cando's style problem for good16:59
replaceafilli set up a testing instance with my branch for dwelsh16:59
replaceafillnow cando looks exactly the same with or without plugins (i think)16:59
replaceafillth1a, that's basically it :)17:00
th1aI'll be happy to have that completely behind us.17:00
replaceafillme too17:00
th1aThanks replaceafill!17:00
yvlI ran into some issues again17:01
yvlwhich has a positivie side - we will only use some parts of z3c.form in the future17:01
yvlor maybe drop that **** completely17:02
yvlbasically I'll drop my last week's work17:02
yvland some from the previous week17:02
* th1a sighs.17:03
yvlyou have no idea how angry I am17:03
yvlthere's a question of what to do now17:04
yvlas in - this week17:04
yvlI'd like to spend some time preparing for the sprint17:04
yvlumm, let me put it this way17:05
yvlI stopped going for the bonus target today17:05
th1aWell... can't we get some of this into the next release?17:06
yvlhow much time do we have?...17:06
yvlif we need to freeze it this Thu, then probably no17:07
yvlI don't want experimental database migration done in a hurry17:07
th1aI know.17:07
th1aWell, I suppose we need to sort it out at the sprint.17:08
yvlI think we now must to get at least part of it in17:08
yvlit just has dragged too long17:08
yvlso I'll keep working on it for now17:09
yvland I agree about sorting out at the sprint17:09
yvlthere is one more thing17:09
yvlI wanted to... umm... "inventorize" code before the sprint17:09
yvland spend at least half a day on the topic "we are here"17:10
th1aYes, I was thinking the same thing.17:10
yvlalso - I was going to ask menesis (or do it myself) - to check what zope dependencies we are using to do what17:11
yvlI know menesis wants to minimize them17:11
yvlamount of them17:11
yvlbut I don't know how busy he is this week17:11
yvlbut I think we should do that before sprint - if it's possible17:11
th1aI think they're all in the pipeline anyhow so it doesn't seem like a top priority to me.17:11
yvlit's a reality check we need to do at some point17:12
menesisI want to drop 3 obsolete dependencies. other than that I certainly haven't planned doing anything like this now17:12
menesisI have uploaded almost everything that we depend on now17:13
th1aYeah, now isn't the time really.  Six months ago would have made more sense.17:13
yvl... :)17:13
yvlwell ok :)17:14
th1aLet's go to menesis and then come back to agenda.17:15
th1a(discussing the sprint agenda)17:15
menesisI got cold last week17:16
menesisspent two days in bed. and didn't get much done17:16
menesisI reviewed replaceafill's gradebook branch, but haven't merged yet17:17
menesisreplaceafill: a lot of good work done :)17:17
menesistherefore I have more work this week and little time left :(17:18
menesisalso have to merge other's work and make releases..17:19
menesisor can this be done later, not this week?17:19
th1aI imagine it can be done later.17:19
th1aMy conception of feature freeze is getting the developers to finish so you can package.17:20
th1aSo I don't expect you to be packaging at the same time.17:20
th1aSo I'd say merging is more important than packaging, so you're not too far behind on that.17:20
menesisgood, then17:21
th1aThe exception might be pushing this CanDo change to just get it out of the way.17:22
menesisbecause to make a new release I have to update translations, and that takes several hours usually17:22
th1aYeah, don't do that now.17:23
replaceafillth1a, i think we can wait for dwelsh17:23
replaceafilli mean, it's not urgent, right?17:23
th1aUh... I don't know.17:24
th1amenesis: I guess you don't need to make CanDo a priority.17:24
th1aSince you're catching up.17:24
th1aOK, anything else, menesis?17:26
menesisno, sorry17:26
th1aOK, so, sprint agenda.17:26
th1a1st off I don't see us doing a lot of coding this trip.17:27
th1aI think this will be even more a planning meeting.17:27
th1aNot really a sprint at all, I guess.17:27
th1aI should have a better idea after I talk to Alex and Helder tomorrow about how much Critical Links wants to do.17:28
th1aSo that obviously affects the agenda.17:28
th1aWe'll probably spend at least a half a day getting to know their company and product better.17:28
th1aI guess I'm thinking 1.5 to 3 days on UI, navigation, usability issues.17:29
yvlyep, there's a lot piled up there17:30
th1aIf they can bring some expertise to the table, I'm happy to invest the time in working through those issues.17:30
th1aJust from what we discussed already this meeting:17:31
th1a* UI (1.5 - 3)17:31
th1a* Getting to know each other (.5 - 1)17:32
th1a* SchoolTool update, inventory, review (.5 - 1)17:32
th1a* Timetable retrospective (.5)17:32
th1aWhat else are MUST's?17:33
yvlok, probably all I'm thinking falls under ST update/inv/review17:34
yvldev. documentation17:35
yvlhow to write it, style, so on17:35
* yvl wants to finally have sphinx generated docs17:35
yvldiscuss user documentation, bundled with ST - is it even plausible?17:36
yvlone thing was kind of interesting17:36
yvlis the training material Zambia needed17:36
th1aWe have documentation -- I need to stage a major update push now, and there is no reason it couldn't be packaged -- it is just html.17:37
yvlmaybe we should add possibility to add training material to ST somewhere17:37
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yvlas in - users could write their own and add17:37
menesisI would like to remove "Help" from the UI because there is so little of it17:38
menesisand replace it with Sphinx-generated docs, the Book I guess17:38
th1aI think a book is better than help files, which are too disjointed.17:38
th1aBut ideally you would have a help link that would take you to the right place in the book.17:38
replaceafillin my head, the book should be part of the code, and whenever a dev changes something in the ui, he should change the book too...17:38
yvlok, this looks like a topic for discussion :)17:39
th1aBasically the main thing that needs to be done is I need to be chained to my computer and forced to write documentation at gunpoint.17:40
th1aSo there isn't really that much to talk about.17:40
th1aAnything else?17:41
yvlhow to put this...17:41
yvlI'd like if some sort of pseudo-official ST API started to evolve17:42
yvlI'll explain why later on17:42
yvlso if there is anything you guys need, or noticed too much duplication, or something is too difficult though it shouldn't17:42
yvlplease bring a list17:43
yvljust concise items17:43
yvlfor example "building containers every single time is annoying"17:43
yvlor something17:44
th1aI guess we can wrap this up.17:44
yvlumm, one more little thing17:45
yvlCSS stylesheets17:45
yvlone-big-fits-all doesn't fit all anymore IMHO17:45
yvlits 0.125-0.25 day item17:45
yvlnow I'm done :)17:46
th1aI'll keep you up to date as the plans with CL firm up.17:46
th1aI'd say CSS reform fits within UI reform.17:46
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:47
th1aHas anyone checked the weather in Portugal?17:47
yvlsee you soon! ;)17:47
replaceafillit's cold! :(17:47
* replaceafill is going to suffer again :(17:47
aelkneri hate the cold, too17:47
replaceafillcoimbra weather17:48
th1aThat's not cold!17:48
yvl+15 - +20 celcius17:48
aelkneryeah, what cold?17:48
replaceafill1 at night!!17:48
yvl(its -4c here)17:48
replaceafillok, it's "relatively" cold :P17:48
th1a-6 here.17:48
th1aI win!17:49
th1aSunday: 59 F.17:49
replaceafill23 C and i had to close my windows...17:49
th1aSuperbowl will be broadcast live on the main Portuguese sports TV channel as well as British Sky TV which some bars also have, but the time difference (11pm start here)17:50
replaceafillah!?? 11pm?!?!17:50
th1aIn Portugal.17:51
aelknergo steelers!17:51
replaceafillth1a, i'll join you if you decide to watch it ;)17:51
th1aThere is no "decide."17:51
th1aWe'll just be sleepy the first day.17:52
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:52
replaceafillthanks everybody17:52
aelknergreat week everyone17:53
menesisreplaceafill: a cando change you wanted released is CSS fixes you pushed yesterday?17:55
replaceafillmenesis, yes, i just haven't requested the merge because i'm waiting for dwelsh to give feedback on it17:56
menesisI thought you needed the external activities fix, but saw one more commit then17:57
menesisso I can wait17:57
replaceafillth1a, have you seen chandara's subject lists?18:00
replaceafillyvl, you gone?18:01
replaceafillth1a, it seems like they need to classify levels 11 and 1218:02
replaceafilli can fix it adding four levels instead of two18:03
replaceafill11 - social, 11 - science, etc18:03
replaceafilli'll go this way and ask feedback from them18:04
yvlreplaceafill, I'm still here18:06
replaceafillyvl, ah question18:07
replaceafillcambodia needs to classify the last two levels (11 and 12)18:07
replaceafillthey need two 11 levels for their science and social classes18:07
replaceafilland also for the 12 levels18:07
replaceafillso i was thinking, a quick way to do it is to create 4 levels18:08
replaceafillyvl, let me fwd you their last email18:08
yvl4 levels sound reasonable18:08
replaceafillah ok18:08
yvl11 - science and 11 - social18:08
replaceafillok, i'll do it that way then18:09
yvlabout "transition" to the next level...18:09
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yvlone option is to hard-code whatever is needed for the UI18:09
yvlanother is to add something to core / Level18:10
yvla list of next_level keys or something18:11
replaceafillah, right because now we'll need more than 'next'18:11
yvlor you can even add a relationship18:12
yvlwhich might be more appropriate18:12
replaceafillrelationship between level 11 - science -> level 12 - science?18:12
yvllevel 10 -> level 11 science18:13
yvllevel 10 -> level 11 social18:13
replaceafillah, right18:13
yvllevel 11 social -> level 12 social18:13
th1aaelkner:  Also, the plan is for you to drive our rental car, right?18:13
yvlwait, no18:13
yvlit's a bi-directional relationship18:14
yvlsorry, can't think straight :)18:14
replaceafillyvl, np18:14
replaceafillyvl, we can discuss transition later18:14
replaceafillright now they only want the subject list updated18:14
replaceafillbut i'll definitely give some thought to the transition part18:15
yvlideally, I'd like relationships18:16
yvlbut URILevel and URINextLevel is a bit weird18:16
yvlboth being same objects (level)18:16
yvlwell, we can always discuss it at the sprint ;D18:18
* yvl goes home18:19
yvlfooooood ;)18:19
replaceafillthanks yvl18:19
yvlsee you soon :)18:19
th1areplaceafill:  Are you going to be able to make this flight without checking a bag?18:30
replaceafillth1a, i hope so, my bag is small and they've always allowed me to take it with me18:31
th1aOK, so none of us will have to wait for checked bags.18:32
th1areplaceafill:  When do you arrive in Newark?18:40
th1aOK, I'll already be there.18:41
replaceafillth1a, do you think we should update the sample_data.xls to 2010-2011 dates? so the calendar would show users stuff according to their 2011 date...18:51
th1areplaceafill, Good idea.19:24
replaceafillth1a, great, will do it19:24
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