IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2011-01-17

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yvlhi aelkner08:39
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yvlFIY, I'm reviewing your latest changes ;)08:40
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th1aHI yvl, menesis, replaceafill, aelkner.16:31
th1aSo this has turned out to be the weekend I've been dreading since I became a parent.16:31
th1aThe weekend in which everyone in the house has a cold at the same time.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1aAnd I thought mine was getting better but instead it got worse.16:31
th1aLuckily, not much energy is required for an IRC meeting.16:32
yvlgood morning :)16:33
th1aOne thing I want to get rolling is getting communication going with Critical Links leading up to the meeting.16:33
th1aSo I'll be sending some follow up emails to them.16:33
th1aWe should make sure we take care of our (one) action point from the meeting:16:33
th1a#3 [ ] gediminas: Send to Helder the packaging instructions.16:34
yvl(just read about your cold.. get better, th1a )16:34
th1aDid we do that?16:34
yvlmenesis just went to get some coffee16:35
yvlas far as I'm aware - no...16:35
th1aOK.  We should do that as I prod them to get their stuff to us.16:35
th1aMoving on...16:36
th1ayvl:  How are things coming.16:36
yvlmoved things forward ~20 hours worth16:37
yvldev velocity is increasing16:37
yvlbonus looks hard, but doable16:37
yvlthat's that, I guess16:38
yvllast week had 1.5 days off total, by the way16:38
yvlrandom things16:38
* th1a looks up the east coast weather report...16:39
* menesis :16:40
replaceafilli kept working on adding tests to the gradebook16:40
replaceafillfound several things that needed fixes16:40
replaceafillreported some of them as bugs16:41
replaceafillwrote down all of them in my notes16:41
replaceafillmenesis, i requested a merge for cando on this one:
replaceafillno hurry though16:42
menesisI see, at the top of the starred email queue16:42
replaceafillaelkner, helped me find some edge cases in the gradebook code16:42
replaceafillthat i need to add tests for16:43
replaceafilli realized that coverage is not the perfect metric for code like the gradebook16:43
replaceafillbut we've improved it a little:
replaceafilljust the pdf views need some more16:44
replaceafilli'm testing the rml of them as yvl suggested once16:44
replaceafilland last week th1a assigned me a lot of bugs that i'm going to check and select some to fix16:45
aelkneryeah, that was helpful16:45
replaceafillah just one question16:45
replaceafillthe fckeditor widget16:45
replaceafillif i write something like: AdiĆ³s16:46
replaceafillthe widget translates it to: <strong>Adi&amp;oacute;s mundo.</strong>16:46
replaceafillyvl, could you confirm that?16:46
replaceafillthe thing is that if that line is used in a template (like the mygrades view)16:46
replaceafilland we use content="structure content"16:47
replaceafillyou get the strong letters16:47
replaceafillbut the text becomes:16:47
replaceafillin bold16:47
yvlhmm, that looks like a bug16:47
replaceafillmaybe we could tell the fckeditor not to escape content?16:48
replaceafillth1a, also i'll need your help with a UI message again for an edge case that i'm going to test later16:48
replaceafillbut that will be later16:49
yvlsorry, can't remember right away16:49
replaceafillth1a, i guess that's it from me16:49
replaceafillyvl, np, i'll look at it too16:49
th1aOK, thanks replaceafill.16:49
menesisabout fckeditor: should I try to convert the widgets to CKEditor?16:50
th1aLooks like rain and some snow Tue/Wed.16:50
aelknerdid you have a chance to read yvl's latest email post regarding demo fields?16:50
yvlmenesis - wasn't that done already?16:50
th1aI did.16:50
aelkneri'm almost done there, but we need to resolve one more thing16:50
aelknercould we take a bold step16:51
aelknerand disable Perspns link in Manage tab if no school year is active16:51
aelknergive me asecond to defend this motion16:51
th1aI don't see any problem with it.16:51
aelknerit seems silly that we let users add persons when there is no schoolyear, hense no groups16:52
aelknerah, good, yvl?16:52
yvlyou can imagine my opinion on that :)16:52
aelkneractually, i can't16:52
aelknerplease opine away16:53
yvlI think that the default groups being only in schoolyears is plain wrong16:53
menesisI think it is strange that basic groups need a schoolyear to exist16:53
aelknerwhere's ignas when we need him to defend his architecture16:54
th1aIt is probably my fault.16:54
aelkneroh, sorry, you were saying16:54
aelknerif we disable Person, we have a solution, no?16:55
th1aWell, anyhow, the original sin here is not just requiring people to be only teachers, students, etc.16:55
th1aThat simplifies everything.16:55
th1aWhat we really need is just a system that more or less stops you from doing anything at all until you have an initial year.16:56
menesismaybe the first schoolyear can be created automatically? I think Cambodia does that?16:56
replaceafillmenesis, no16:56
replaceafillcambodia only shows 'School Years' under Manage by default16:56
yvlI'd say we need to work on the views more16:58
yvlyear 2009 could have the teachers roster, easily accesible an manageable16:58
yvland should16:59
yvlI haven't decided on non-schoolyear groups yet17:00
yvlin my opinion, they should exist17:00
aelkneri don't know if that's such a good idea17:00
aelknera lot of code gets the schoolyear from the group container17:00
aelknerit would be a real pain to track that down17:00
yvlwe shouldn't17:00
yvlgroups are very basic concept in ST17:01
yvland that is good17:01
yvlit should  be possible to get the schoolyear from the groups of that shcoolyear17:01
th1aI think there is an advantage to making group membership per year so explicit.17:01
aelknerdifferent school years can have different members of these core groups17:02
aelkneri don't see the need to reachitect the whole thing17:02
yvlI did not suggest that17:02
aelknerwe just need to get the user to create a schoolyear17:03
aelknerand disable UI until then17:03
yvlI won't object17:04
yvlbut I'm not fan of hiding trash under the carpet17:04
aelknerthere are many meals at the sprint where we can discuss this17:04
th1aMoving on...17:04
aelknerbut for getting the branch merged and into the release17:04
aelknercan we agree to disable Persons from Manage17:05
yvlmy vote is - strongly no; but it's not my place to vote ;)17:05
aelknerit's not a democracy, but we have a benevolent dictator :)17:05
th1aI don't have a problem with it.17:05
* yvl sighs17:06
yvlbut it's ok17:06
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menesisdoes adding a person fail when there are no schoolyears?17:06
aelknercan you make that last change yourself as you merge, pretty please :)17:06
aelknerit does not fail17:06
aelknerbut the user will be confused by the group not being set17:07
aelknerso it's better not to offer that possibility17:07
yvlfor the record, I still think that those action buttons should be moved to schoolyear17:07
yvland instructions put at Manage->Persons page17:07
yvlwith links17:08
aelkneri'm not sure i agree on that one, th1a?17:08
yvlit's just for the recor17:08
aelknercan it wait until the sprint?17:08
th1ayvl's plan is probably bettter.17:09
th1aAdd student and teacher only from within a year.17:09
aelknera user clicks on Persons and finds no Add Teacher, but then goes to the schoolyear and finds it?!!!17:10
yvl"To add teachers and students pleas _create_a_school_year_"17:10
aelknerthat sounds confusing17:10
yvllink to new school year page17:10
th1aWell, it is inherently confusing.17:10
aelknerif we force the user to add a schoolyear, then the confusion is avoided17:10
aelknerkeeping person links in the person cotext makes more sense to me17:11
yvlI hope we'll fix the group thing some time17:11
th1aRealistically, one thing that is probably going to go away is the whole construct of navigating through the year.17:12
yvluntil then there's no good solution - just tradeoffs17:12
th1aI think the cleaner interim solution is to do add teacher/student/etc through the year.17:12
th1aThat's easy enough, right?17:12
aelknerfirst, it's not easier17:13
aelknersecond, it's hostile to the user17:13
aelknerthe user wants to add person17:13
aelknerso they, naturally, hit the PErsons link17:13
aelknerif they need to go to the schoolyear to add persons, booooooooooooooooo17:13
th1aIt is no more hostile to the user than anything else about navigating to the year.17:13
aelknerschoolyears have courses, groups, etc.17:14
aelknerpersons are found at the Persons link17:14
th1aWhich is, arguably all hostile, but consistently hostile is better than inconsistent and hostile.17:14
aelknerit's consistent now17:14
aelknerit just does not make sense to use schooltool at all without a scholyear17:15
yvlok, how about a compromise17:15
aelknerit fails all over the place, safely mind you17:15
yvldisable the teacher and student links if no schoolyear17:15
yvlbut when there's no school year, add this text:17:15
aelknerwhy not disable Persons link?17:15
yvl"To add teachers and students pleas _create_a_school_year_"17:15
yvlunder Manage->Persons17:15
yvl___ is a link17:16
aelknerah, when they hit the PErsons lnk, they get that message17:16
aelknerwhich forces them to add a schoolyear?17:16
th1aWhatever we do at this point is a band-aid.17:16
menesisyvl: agree17:16
yvltrue, th1a17:16
aelkneryeah, but some bandads are better than others17:16
aelknersimpler is better for one thing17:17
* menesis thinks that "Persons" should be a toplevel menu item like Calendar :-X17:17
aelknercan we agree that the person container view will show a message 'must add schoolyear'17:17
aelknera redirect17:17
aelknerso that there are no person links17:18
menesisthat's how other places that need a year/term do17:18
menesisso I agree17:18
aelkneri had to create my own no schoolyear redirect view in the gradebook17:18
aelknerit would be nice if we had one in schooltool core17:18
th1aI'm not going to kick up a fuss.17:19
yvlok, let's move on then17:19
th1aaelkner:  Do you want to come up here on Thursday?17:19
aelkneri want us to agree on the no schoolyear redirect and get that branch merged, please17:20
yvlwhy redirect?17:21
yvljust show the message17:21
yvlwith a link17:21
aelknerif the person container view redirects17:21
aelknerthen the context can be app17:21
aelknerand no person add links will show17:21
aelknerthat's why17:21
aelknerlook at the gradebook code17:21
yvlit's not that hard to disable them17:21
yvland you won't get the add school year view17:22
yvlby hitting17:22
yvlI'll do that and merge17:22
yvltomorrow, if it's ok17:22
aelknerok, that would be just fine17:22
aelknerth1a, Thursday is ok for me if the whether holds up17:22
aelkneri saw the report for ice on tues17:23
aelknerso i am ore comfortable with thurs than wed17:23
aelknerhow about we see tomorrow?17:23
aelknerbefore you book any room17:23
th1aI'm not booking anything until you leave the house.17:24
aelkneri can work on the report system design this week and email you before coming up17:25
aelknernow that yvl has been kind enough to take demos off my plate, thanks again for that17:25
th1aOr just call.17:25
aelkneri know how you prefer email to talking, so... :)17:26
aelknerbut seriously, email does force me to get more concrete with my thoughts17:26
aelknerwe can do both17:26
th1aThanks aelkner.17:27
aelkneranyway, can i call after the meeting to talk Steelers?17:27
th1aaelkner:  Perhaps we can save it until I regain my voice.17:27
menesisI have done little the last week17:28
menesisfought with zope.html packaging to use system fckeditor/ckeditor17:28
replaceafillmenesis, in a related topic: adding FCKConfig.IncludeLatinEntities = false; to the fckeditor config fix the problem i described earlier17:29
menesisyvl: we upgraded to newer zope.html that contains ckeditor, but still use the old FCKEditor17:29
menesisreplaceafill: fixes entities17:30
menesisand escaped <strong>?17:30
replaceafillstrong works17:30
replaceafillthe content of strong is shown correctly17:31
th1aShould replaceafill switch us to ckeditor?17:31
menesisno need for setting to replace strong with b?17:31
replaceafillmenesis, strong and b work the same, right? i mean visually and they both work in pdfs17:32
replaceafilli mean, reportlab17:32
menesisthey are the same17:32
menesisso if both work then ok17:32
menesisth1a: well, since replaceafill was testing ckeditor last days maybe he wants to continue on that17:33
replaceafillhhmm i did it because the gradebook needed it :P17:33
th1aIt seems like something to clear up.17:33
replaceafillbut i can work on that17:34
yvlyep, it would be nice to switch to CK17:34
* replaceafill wonders about the differences with F and no F17:34
menesisfor me they both cause headaches because they are both included in zope.html, but implemented differently17:35
th1aWe need to deprecate fck.17:35
menesisand also yvl copied most of the code to and made yet another similar implementation17:35
menesisreplaceafill: CKEditor is just a less offensive name :)17:36
aelkneryeah fck is really unfortunate17:36
menesisalso, a rewrite17:36
yvlreplaceafill, you'll have to play with it a bit17:36
menesisbut I couldn't find a migration guide today. probably little, some options were renamed17:37
th1areplaceafill:  Consider this added to your list.17:38
replaceafillgot it17:38
replaceafillkid of related17:38
yvlit's a memo to switch to CK17:39
menesisI did upgrade to the newest zope.html17:39
yvlzope.html upgraded17:39
yvlreplaceafill, don't forget to test this
replaceafillwow mod-rewrite17:40
replaceafillyvl, ok17:40
yvlsee hack in schooltool/skin/resource/editor_config.js17:40
menesisbecause of this bug the code is duplicated17:41
menesisfrom zope.html17:41
menesisI would like to fix this in upstream zope.html17:41
yvland more code duplicated because we also need a z3c.form widget17:42
menesisbecause I will want to make a new zope.html release anyway17:43
menesisto match (f)ckeditor versions in ubuntu17:43
yvlwell, we should probably stop torturing Tom about now... ;)17:44
th1amenesis:  Did you see the reminder about packaging instructions for Critical LInks?17:44
menesisso not sure who (me or replaceafill) should work on this ckeditor upgrade17:45
menesisth1a: yes I saw, waited for my turn17:45
th1aI think replaceafill can handle it.17:45
menesishaven't written this email. it might not be useful to him but still I promised to send whatever I do.17:46
th1aYeah, we just need to hold up our end.17:46
menesisat the top of my list17:46
th1aThanks, menesis.17:47
menesisgot distracted by various issues last week17:47
th1aI will now go celebrate Martin Luther King Jr. Day by lying down.17:47
menesishave much mail to reply, started today17:47
aelknerfeel better soon, th1a17:47
yvlget better, th1a17:48
replaceafillget well th1a and your family too :)17:48
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!17:48
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:48
replaceafillthanks everybody17:48
aelknergreat week to all17:48
replaceafillaelkner, could you help me with something?17:51
replaceafillagain, a piece of code i cannot get to :)17:51
replaceafillopen gradebook.browser.gradebook.py17:51
aelkneralready open17:52
replaceafillhold on, i think it's not there17:52
* replaceafill checks17:52
replaceafillcrap i lost it, aelkner give me a minute to look for the line :(17:53
replaceafillaelkner, found it17:57
replaceafillMyGrades class17:57
replaceafillyou're looking at trunk, right?17:57
replaceafillok, line 73417:58
replaceafillif value is not None and value is not UNSCORED:17:58
replaceafillthere's a check for a score, right?17:59
replaceafillthen there's a check for a ICommentScoreSystem17:59
replaceafilland the next elif17:59
replaceafillchecks a IValueScoreSystem17:59
replaceafillin there there's another check for a IDiscreteScoreSystem18:00
aelkneryep and yep18:00
replaceafillwhere value is retrieved again18:00
replaceafillvalue = ss.getNumericalValue(value)18:00
replaceafillso my question is, could line 732 return None and line 744 return not None18:01
replaceafillin the same activity + student18:01
replaceafilli checked the getNumericalValue of the scoresystem18:02
replaceafilland the case when None is returned is when the score is UNSCORED18:02
replaceafilland that was already checked in line 73218:03
replaceafillso, i cannot write a test to get to that line :(18:03
aelknercomment scores don't have a numerical value, right?18:03
replaceafillif i leave a score empty, line 732 bypasses the whole block18:03
replaceafilli dont think so18:03
aelknerif the score is Nonw or UNSCORED, it goes to the else18:04
aelkneri'm not sure what you are asking here18:04
replaceafillsorry that i'm not being clear18:04
replaceafilllet me show you something18:05
replaceafillmy question is, how could you get to the red line?18:07
aelknerah, None is only returned if score is UNCORED which is not possible inside that if18:08
aelkneri get it18:08
aelknerconsidering the fact that you are improving test coverage (yay!)18:08
aelkneri'd say go ahead and remove that18:08
aelknerfail safe is not needed when test coverage is there18:09
replaceafillok, just wanted to check if was missing something :18:09
replaceafilllike getEvaluation returning something different than getNumericalValue under some condition18:10
aelknergetEvaluation is about retrieving the annotations18:11
aelknergetNumericalValue is a scoresystem conversion ting18:11
aelknerthey shouldn't be intertwined18:11
aelknerthey aren't, right?18:11
aelknerok, good18:12
replaceafilldifferent methods on different classes18:12
replaceafillthe only common logic is the check for UNSCORED18:12
aelkneri'll trust your judgement on this as you are looking at the code a lot lately18:12
aelknerand i'm glad the code is getting a lot of love in the form of test coverage18:12
replaceafillaelkner, right but you know it better ;)18:12
replaceafilllook at our getSource discussion of the other night ;)18:13
aelknerwell, i have more historical knowledge, but you have more recent brain load18:13
replaceafillcool, i'll keep working then18:13
replaceafillthank you very much aelkner18:13
aelknertogether we make a good team :)18:13
aelkneralways a pleasure18:13
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dadengaelkner, hi23:24
dadengdid u see my email?23:24
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