IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-08-16

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th1ahi yvl, replaceafill, aelkner.16:31
yvlmorning :)16:31
th1ahi Lumiere.16:31
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:31
th1ayvl:  You don't happen to know where menesis is?16:32
yvlhmm, I saw an email saying he's on short vacation with his family, Fri-Mon16:32
th1aHow's your vacation going?16:33
yvlpretty well, thank you :)16:33
yvljust dropped in to see what's new with ST :)16:34
th1abefore I forget -- I need invoices from aelkner and replaceafill.16:34
replaceafillth1a, ah ok, will send it today16:34
aelknerme, too16:34
th1aSo I got my Israeli Nokia unlocked and have all the proper adapters now.16:35
th1aI'll take a photo of the entire velcroed together contraption (including 4 port USB hub) today.16:35
th1aI haven't actually gotten it to work with the phone yet though.16:35
th1aGnokki seems to connect to the phone, which is further than we've gotten before, but then just craps out in its annoying Gnokki way.16:36
th1aDoesn't actually do anything.16:36
aelknersounds familiar (:16:37
th1aSo I'm going to try pySerial today.16:37
th1aI have a deadline because I'm going to be showing it at Maker Faire Rhode Island at the end of the month.16:37
th1aOK, replaceafill?16:38
replaceafilli fixed a couple of issues with cambodia forms last week16:38
replaceafillsend javier an email with a few questions16:38
replaceafillhaven't received his reply yet16:39
replaceafilli also started to work on the gradebook, even if i still have no feedback on my calculations16:39
replaceafillthe report sheets need changes anyway16:39
th1aI was going to say maybe you should plow ahead with that.16:39
yvlby the way, when is the Cambodia deployment "deadline"?16:40
replaceafilli also wanted to ask you if i can work in el salvador tasks while i wait for cambodia16:40
th1aYes, you can do that.16:40
th1aWell, we should ask about the deadline.16:41
replaceafillah ok, noted, will ask that too16:41
th1aAs far as I'm concerned, the whole thing is like a shark, we just have to keep it swimming forward.16:41
th1aThe exact pace, well, there's not much we can do about it anyhow.16:42
replaceafillusually javier replies quickly16:42
th1aYes... I mean the pace of actual deployment.16:42
replaceafillgot it16:43
th1aI don't mean go slow with development.  ;-)16:43
th1aJust that we're "pushing a string."16:43
th1aBut the more active we are, the more they think about our project and its deployment, so it is important we constantly remind them that we're here.16:44
replaceafillalso, lee caps sent a question which you saw16:45
th1aParticularly with Cambodia, which is important to *us*.  Less so with, say, Shadoschools, who we haven't heard from in a while, but in that case, it doesn't affect the success of our project very much.16:45
replaceafilli asked menesis for help because i didnt know what was the appropriate procedure16:45
replaceafilland i didnt want to disturb yvl's vacation :D16:45
yvlyou should have ;)16:46
replaceafillno man, rest! :P16:46
yvlit's always better to have info, than be clueless a week later16:46
replaceafillsorry, true16:46
th1aPerhaps in the fall we can make a view that will clear the transaction queue and generate a backup.16:46
replaceafilli havent had problems with hot backups so far16:47
replaceafillbut i always make them when nobody is using the system16:47
replaceafillacc and gctaa16:47
yvlplease fwd the email16:47
replaceafillth1a, i guess that is from me16:48
replaceafillyvl, will do right now16:48
yvland on that note, if it's not too much trouble, please fwd all the converstaions with Cambodia :)16:48
* yvl has no idea what is happening there at the moment :(16:48
replaceafillyvl, of course16:48
th1aI guess the practical differences between repozo and a hot cp is 1) incremental backups, which we don't even necessarily want for non-expert users;16:48
yvlthanks :)16:48
replaceafillyvl, sorry i thought it could be nont interesting traffic...16:48
replaceafillbut i understand now16:48
replaceafilli'll cc you from now on16:49
th1a2) the possibility of getting half a transaction at the end of the file with cp, compared to not getting it at all with repozo.16:49
yvlwell, everything related to ST is interesting ;)16:49
replaceafillth1a, i didnt understand why the procedure is difficult16:49
aelknerwhat is this repozo thing?16:49
yvlIf I recall correctly, ZODB should ignore "half-appended" transactions...16:49
replaceafillor why lee sees it difficult16:49
th1arepozo is a script that does hot backups of a ZODB.16:51
yvlaelkner, see
replaceafillthe way i do it (i learned it from Lumiere) is that i set a cronjob at 1 am, copy the Data.fs, zip it and put it somewhere, people can go later to take the zip and try16:51
th1aActually, the most interesting question is why exactly the school which started this conversation lose data?16:53
th1aSo perhaps we should take that up at some point.16:54
th1areplaceafill, I know we talked about what needs to be done to report sheets, but perhaps you can remind us.16:55
th1aI think aelkner needs the same thing.16:55
replaceafillah sure16:55
replaceafillyou have a summary sheet16:56
replaceafillwhich doens't take into accout report sheets, just regular worksheets16:56
replaceafillalso, report sheets assume all the sections use the same columns16:56
replaceafillor activities16:57
replaceafillin cambodia, sections for 9 and 12 grade are different16:57
replaceafillthey store fewer columns16:57
th1aRight, iirc we need different report sheets in different sections in Zambia.16:58
* th1a doesn't know how to interpret that expression.16:58
replaceafillin cambodia 1-8 and 11 store montly grades16:59
replaceafilland 9 and 12 grades only semester grades16:59
aelknerthe question is how did you address this16:59
replaceafillaelkner, i havent16:59
aelknerah, that way :)16:59
th1aThat's what we're talking about doing now.16:59
replaceafillaelkner, u?17:00
th1aSo you guys need to talk to each other in planning it.17:00
aelkneri'm not sure what th1a means by needing it for zambia17:00
th1aI don't think every section has the same grades.17:00
th1aBut I might be getting something confused.17:00
aelknercould be that they need that, but i don't recall any email specifically17:01
aelkneranyway, we know cambodia needs it, so...17:01
th1aOK, well, anyhow, replaceafill, just let us know what your plan is.17:01
aelknerthe question is how do we selectively deploy worksheets to a subset of sections17:01
th1aAnd feel free to ask aelkner and me about how to implement it.17:02
replaceafillok, i will17:02
th1aWell, in terms of user interface it probably is fine to do it by course.17:02
replaceafillby level?17:02
th1aAnd just have an option of checking off the courses you want.17:02
th1aEach level has its own course for a given subject?17:03
aelknerthat sounds like a good idea17:03
th1aAs long as it doesn't break the data model.17:03
th1a(Math 1, Math 2, etc?)17:03
replaceafillth1a, this is not going to be cambodia specific, correct?17:03
replaceafillbecause i was thinking of doing it by level17:04
th1aAh, well, actually I guess you should do a Cambodia specific UI.17:04
th1aBut we should implement it under the hood in a consistent way everywhere.17:04
replaceafilli thought we didnt even need UI for setting it up17:04
replaceafilli thought it was going to be default17:04
th1aYou can make assumptions in Cambodia.17:04
replaceafillas course creation17:04
th1aYes, yes.17:04
th1aWe will want a different UI for the general case.17:05
th1aI just don't want two incompatible implementations.17:05
aelkneradding the list of courses to the deploy worksheet view would not be difficult for the user to handle17:05
aelknerwhat about report card generation?17:06
aelknerthe report card layout view and report card pdf view17:06
th1aFor you?17:06
aelknerassume consistently deployed worksheets17:06
th1aAh, right.17:07
aelknerso that would need to be addressed17:07
th1aMultiple report cards.17:07
replaceafilli thought of report cards as reports by level?17:08
aelknerreport card layouts would need to be kept in a container17:08
replaceafilli havent check the current implementation though17:08
th1aWell, it inevitably complexifies the report cards.17:08
aelknerand the user would need to add them, chose them when printing report cards17:08
th1aWe'll have to think about that one.17:09
replaceafilli'll work on that and let you guys know17:10
yvlaelkner, why the container?17:11
th1aWe should talk about the report card part of it before you get too deep into (the report card part).17:11
yvlcan't we just hack them in?17:12
yvland do they even need to be persistent?17:12
yvl(I'm not familiar with that part very well, so these are simply questions ;) )17:12
th1aThey need to be persistent.17:12
replaceafillthey use some sort of persistent column?17:12
aelknerright now report card layouts are stored by school year17:12
aelknerwhat we are talking about is hacing more than one layout in a given year17:13
th1aOften you layout the report card for the year and print it out at the end of each quarter.17:13
aelknerin other words, ore than one type of report card17:13
th1aActually, it is probably a more complex single report card, for our generic implementation.17:13
aelknerah, thinking about it, maybe we don't need to add a container17:14
th1aBecause we don't want to make too many assumptions about mixing different types of grading.17:14
aelknerwe could just add something to the key17:14
th1aI need to look at how it is implemented now again and think a little more.17:14
th1aThanks replaceafill!17:17
yvlhmm, I took a short look at the code17:17
yvlaelkner, your idea with a different key looks good17:17
aelkneryeah, we could just add a -something to the schoolyear to distinguish one from another17:18
aelknerthe -seomthing would have to serve as a title for the user though17:18
aelknerfor the user to chose one from another when laying out/printing report cards17:19
aelknerit's a complicated task, but doable17:19
th1aDon't think we'll do it that way.17:20
th1aBut we don't have to figure it out now.17:20
th1aOK, aelkner update?17:22
aelknerso i added isMaxPassingScore to discrete score sustems17:23
aelknerto indicate that the minPassing score is really a maximum17:23
aelknerand i got the add score system view to allow the user to set that17:23
aelkneractually, require is the better term17:24
th1aThat's a boolean?17:24
aelknerno evolution necessary as the class attribute will be False17:24
aelkneri changed the isPassingScore method17:25
aelknerto take the flag into consideration17:25
aelknerhere's the thing though17:25
aelkneruntil now, we haven't used that method, instead asking the user what is a passing score17:26
aelknerin the request failures report view17:26
th1aOh, snap.17:26
th1aThat's how that worked.17:27
aelknerwe probably did it that way so that we wouldn't require the ser to make that decision17:27
aelknerwhen setting up the score system17:27
aelknerbut that is probably more features than the user really needs17:27
th1aActually, you might want the report to show something different than the official failing level.17:27
th1aIf "F" is failing you still might want to know who got "D's."17:28
aelknerso an override, so to speak17:28
aelkneri like the sond of that17:28
aelknerbecause i was going to raise the issue of what to do about existing custom score systems in the field17:29
aelknerthat currently have None for minPassingScore17:29
aelknerremoving the mimum passing score from the failure report request would have led to problams17:30
aelknerfor those custom score systems that have already been created out there17:31
aelknerbut by keeping the min passing score in the report request17:32
th1aOh, right.17:32
aelknerwe can handle those types of users17:32
aelknerwhereas going forward17:32
aelknerwe can not require the user to enter anything there17:32
aelknerand have the report use the isPassingScore methoid17:33
aelknerwhich would in turn take into account the isMaxPassingScore flag set up by the user17:33
aelknerwhen adding the score system in the first place17:34
th1aYes.  Just change the label to say "minimum/maximum" passing score,17:34
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aelknera dropdown the the user selects like in the add view, right?17:34
aelkneri sent you some screen shots17:35
th1aNo... just a text reminder that they might be setting either based on the context.17:35
th1aMaking the value a drop-down might be nice.17:35
th1aEven for ranged score systems.17:35
aelknerin any event, we don't have to worry about existing score systems in the field17:36
aelkneras long as the report request retains that option for the user17:36
aelknerok, so another issue came up17:37
aelkneri found a little bug while changing the add score system view17:37
aelknerthere is another attribute which the add score system view need to set17:38
aelknercalled, bestScore17:38
aelknerit is only used in the gradebook for for the column heading17:39
th1aWe can infer that this is the first value entered?17:40
aelknerwell, until now inferring that made sense17:40
aelknerbut with the min/max, that may change17:40
aelknerbut the bug is that i set it to the first abreviation17:41
aelknerinstead of the first displayed score17:41
th1aIt is a string?17:41
aelknerit's not used in calculating anything, so it's not tragic17:41
aelkneri just wanted to mention it17:41
th1aYeah, if someone is annoyed by it someday we can let them explicitly set it.17:42
th1aOr something.17:42
aelkneryeah, i figured that we were safe on this, that it  ay never be an issue17:42
aelknerand i changed the view to use the first displayed score now17:43
aelkneri suppose the concept of best score doesn't change when the user chooses max over min17:43
aelknerfor the passing score option?17:44
th1aI don't think so.17:44
aelknerthe highest score is still the best score17:44
aelknerat least for the gradebook column that should be ok, right?17:44
th1aWe're really just implying a label.17:44
th1aThis mainly just makes sense for ranged scores.17:45
th1aSo that if you have a 10 point quiz it says "10" at the top.17:45
th1aThat's why it is there.17:45
th1aNot to remind you that in your country you use A-F.17:46
th1aOK, anything else?17:46
aelknercan we hash over details of the screenshots i sent you via phone after the meeting is over?17:46
th1aThey look fine to me, except for what we discussed above.17:48
th1aDo you understand the difference in the timetable report Jen sent?17:48
th1aThe new one?17:48
aelknerlooking at the email thread i don't see an attachment17:49
th1aOh, she just sent it to me.17:49
th1aAnyhow, I'll keep this going with aelkner, but...17:50
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:50
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:50
replaceafillthanks everybody17:50
aelknergreat week everybody17:51
yvla great week for you all! :)17:52
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aelknerth1a, what do you make of the two new columns?17:53
th1aThe first two?17:54
th1aI'm not really familiar with the particulars of their schedule.17:55
aelknerth1a, hello?18:00
th1aWhat do you make of them?18:01
aelkneri don't know, i was asking you18:01
aelknerall i know is there is only one course percell18:02
th1aWell, are they classes?18:02
aelknerthings like 8A, 8B, those are section titles18:02
th1aWhat about C5, C6...18:03
aelknerthat happen to correspond in real life to a group of students, kind of like a level but not exactly18:03
aelkneri dunno18:03
aelknernever seen it in their FET data18:03
th1aIs this the same data as in the report you made?18:04
aelknerwell, if i had to guess18:04
aelkneri would thin that what she has given us here solves a mystery that i had about why one teacher18:05
aelknerwould be teaching more than one section at once18:05
aelknerit looks lke the teacher is teaching the same course to ore than one group of students18:05
aelknerso, in a way showing the course title rather than the section title makes more sense18:06
aelknerand i guess a teacher teaching four different groups of students at once could be rendered as four rows18:07
th1aMy SchoolTool phone just got a promotional text message about a concert tonight.18:07
aelknera SchoolTool concert?18:07
th1aA Hot 106 concert.18:07
aelkneri'm not twelve, so i have no idea who they are18:08
aelkneror did i mess something growing up18:08
th1aIt is a radio station...18:08
aelknerth1a, are you receiving my private chat messages?18:10
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th1aSorry... pulled away for a minute.18:16
aelknerso, are you?18:16
th1aYes, but I have my sidebar closed so I don't see them.18:17
th1aSo this is telling us which subject each teacher is teaching each period?18:18
aelknerbut it doesn't properly represent the case of teaching more than one group of students at a time18:20
aelkneri see only one line per teacher18:20
aelknerwith only one group of students mentioned in column one18:20
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