IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-05-17

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th1ahi aelkner, replaceafill, yvl, menesis.16:31
yvlmorning guys :)16:32
aelknermorning, and welcome back to the states16:32
th1aI sent out a summary of our trip.  Did you see it aelkner & replaceafill?16:34
aelknerwhere did you send it?16:35
th1aAre you subscribed to schooltoolers?16:35
aelknerperhaps not16:35
yvlplease do16:35
* th1a sighs.16:35
aelknerhow do i subscribe again?16:35
th1aIt is a team on Launchpad.16:35
replaceafillgood morning everybody16:35
th1aHi replaceafill.16:35
replaceafillth1a, i saw the summary16:36
th1aAnyhow, everything went very well and seems to be on track going forward.16:36
th1amenesis:  What's your next step?16:36
menesisth1a: first I have to write a TODO16:37
menesisthen will see what's next16:37
th1aAs far as I can tell, the only thing that could possibly go wrong is us going quiet for a month.16:38
menesissend emails to people asking for endorsement of my application
th1aAh, good.16:39
menesisand formally apply before the next memebrship board meeting on May 2516:39
th1aThat's really the big step, right?16:40
menesisupdate the blueprint's whiteboard with the tasks16:40
th1aGetting through that approval?16:40
menesisand send emails to debian zope team and bluebream mailing list16:41
menesisyes, becoming a member is very important. the sooner I do the better, I can upload packages myself then16:42
th1aOK.  So definitely make the push to get that done on the 25th.16:43
menesisuntil then I will upload some to REVU16:43
th1aOK.  Good.16:43
th1aI think we have a plan.16:43
th1ayvl:  So you're going back to the flexible timetable problem?16:43
yvlnot at the moment16:44
yvlshaping levels to fit ST trunk first16:44
yvl~ half a day left until basics are done with tests16:44
yvlthen I'll have to fit them with persons somehow (haven't reached a final decision on that)16:45
th1aOh, right.16:45
yvland I don't know about UI16:45
yvlmake it?16:45
th1aI knew there was something else.16:45
yvlmaybe don't?16:45
th1aMake which?16:45
yvlif yes, how much of it?16:45
yvlshould I do UI?16:45
yvlI'm currently working at data level only16:46
th1aWell, we'll need a UI to create levels first, right?16:46
th1aTo define them.16:46
yvlit depends...16:46
yvlCambodia case should just use the ST's levels16:47
yvlonce they're in the trunk, even without UI they are a good idea to use16:47
th1aAre they just 1-12?16:47
yvlnot necessarily16:48
yvla container of titled somethings16:48
yvlordered container, so you would not depend on ordering by name or something16:48
yvlI think if grant projects implemented by aelkner want to use levels16:49
yvlthe basic UI should be done in the ST itself16:49
yvl(Cambodia levels should have skinned views anyway)16:49
yvlI wonder how much functionality UI-wise there should be for now16:50
th1aFor now let's just figure on you doing the UI to edit the existing levels.16:50
yvlassigning levels to courses?  levels to persons?16:50
th1aI'm ok with adding funcionality as we go.16:50
yvlI'll just do the data-related part for that16:51
th1aWe can have 1-12 as the default.16:51
th1aI think the back end and the UI to modify the levels.16:51
yvlyes, that too :)16:52
yvlare you sure about the defaults?16:52
th1aThe only problem with that is we have to deal with deleting levels that people have been assigned.16:52
th1aI think 1-12 is reasonable.16:53
th1aPlus it communicates the basic idea pretty well.16:53
yvldo the levels need anything apart from the title?16:53
yvlat the moment people can rename them to "high school 1"16:54
th1aNot that I can think of.16:54
yvlor something16:54
yvlwhere would you expect to have indication that person is taught at some level?16:55
yvlperson container maybe?16:55
yvlsorting by level?16:55
th1aThat would be one way.16:55
th1aAlso needs to go on the person index.16:55
yvledit form?16:56
yvladd form maybe?16:56
th1aThose too.16:56
th1aWe might not need to do all that right now.16:56
replaceafillwill it be possible to change the person's level in the edit form?16:56
yvlyes, agreed16:56
th1aYou might be implementing that, replaceafill.  ;-)16:57
yvlor maybe not ;)16:57
yvlone of the things I want to do eventually16:57
yvlis make the person add/edit form composable of other subforms16:57
th1aI might want yvl doing more deep plumbing instead.16:57
yvldefined separately and independently16:57
th1aYes, the person form needs complexification.16:58
yvlwell, we'll see how it all goes16:58
yvlminimalism for now, functionality eventually :)16:58
th1aBasically, I don't want the task to get out of hand and push some other key things back too far.16:59
yvlI'd like to get to the timetables this week..16:59
yvlonce the levels are in trunk, I'll email replaceafill16:59
th1aand aelkner.17:00
yvlyes :)17:00
replaceafillyvl, we're going to change cambodia to use them, right?17:00
aelkneryeah, what happened to schooltool-developers?17:00
th1aYes, use that.17:00
yvl(I just wanted to downplay the levels being added for the moment)17:01
yvlbut that's just paranoia17:01
th1aIt doesn't have to be kept secret.17:01
th1aOK.  Thanks yvl.17:01
replaceafillok, i've been working setting up an appropriate gradebook for El Salvador17:02
replaceafilland i'm kind of confused in the worksheets part17:02
replaceafillth1a, you suggested to use report sheets, right?17:03
replaceafillwas that because of them being able to generate report cards?17:03
th1aDid we not do that in Cambodia?17:03
th1areplaceafill:  Yes.17:03
aelknerdid you see my comment on your bug report?17:03
replaceafillcambodia uses regular worksheets as far as i can tell17:03
aelkneri mentioned the same there17:03
replaceafillaelkner, ah yes thanks17:03
replaceafillaelkner, cambodia uses regular worksheets, right?17:04
aelkneryes, i deployed regular worksheets in cambodia17:04
th1aBut there is no reason to use worksheets there, right?17:04
aelknerthat might not have been what we wanted, but easy to change to report sheets if we need to17:04
th1aWe're really using them as report sheets.17:04
th1aYes, they should be report sheets.17:04
replaceafillth1a, ah we need to change cambodia then17:05
aelkneri can help replaceafill with that17:05
replaceafillso, the bug i reported applies for these cases17:05
replaceafillsince the Sheet1 regular worksheet always appear17:05
th1aaelkner, When is a fresh default worksheet added to an empty gradebook?17:05
replaceafillaelkner, is it done in the view?17:06
aelkneron any transaction that interacts with the gradebook17:06
th1aPractically speaking, what does that mean?17:06
aelknerlet me check to be more precise17:06
replaceafillshould i override that behaviour?17:07
th1aWell, we should change it in core to be less zealous.17:07
th1aI'd say it is just overenthusiastic.17:07
aelknerto answer the question:17:08
th1aThe simplest fix is just to not create a default worksheet if a reportsheet exists.17:08
replaceafilldef ensureAtLeastOneWorksheet(activities):17:08
aelknerwhen the gradebook object is created (any gradebook view does this)17:08
aelknerit calls ensureAtLeastOneWorksheet17:09
aelknerwhich does the work of making sure there is a worksheet17:09
th1aSo if the reportsheets are created before the teachers start using the gradebook, and ensureAtLeastOne...() is changed to check for a reportsheet,17:09
th1athen in replaceafill's case, the teachers won't see a blank worksheet?17:10
replaceafillaelkner, i didnt get this part:17:11
replaceafill    for worksheet in activities.values():17:11
replaceafill        if not worksheet.deployed:17:11
replaceafill            return17:11
replaceafillsorry for the flooding17:11
aelkneryes, it can be changed to not check worksheet.deployed17:11
aelknerif that's what th1a wants17:12
yvl(I'd rather make auto-deploying in our cases instead of changing the worksheet code)17:12
th1aTo be clear, the reason to create a worksheet is simply to ensure that the first time a teacher looks at their gradebook, that it looks like a gradebook.17:13
th1aThat their initial reaction isn't WTF?17:13
replaceafillbut if there are report sheets deployed, that will also look like a gradebook, right?17:14
th1aThat's my point.17:14
th1aAlso, if schools are using SchoolTool for their report cards, they'll have to have some minimal level of training for the teachers.17:14
th1aSo there will be someone to point out the "new worksheet" button if they want to do more grading.17:15
aelknerreplaceafill, the code you posted can be replaced with the following:17:15
aelknerif len(activities):17:15
aelkner    return17:16
yvlreplaceafill, can you point to your El Salvador dev branch please?17:16
replaceafillyvl, haven't pushed it yet17:16
replaceafillwas thinking of pushing it when i have the gradebook finally working for them17:16
replaceafillright now, my only problem is the "ghost" worksheet17:17
replaceafillok, should i change gradebook core?17:17
replaceafillth1a, second question of mine17:18
replaceafillhave you thought about the linode server?17:18
replaceafilli lost my access to the vps i used for demoing things17:18
th1aI haven't *thought* about it.17:18
th1aBut I can set one up.17:18
th1aSo I should do that?17:18
replaceafilli think RAM is what we need in those17:18
replaceafillfor compiling stuff17:19
replaceafilllike lxml, i remember it takes a lot of RAM17:19
replaceafilli mean, try to get something with a decent amount of RAM17:19
replaceafilli had one with 256 MB which died everytime i compiled lxml17:20
th1a540mb probably.17:20
replaceafillah ok17:21
th1aSo basically I'm getting a cheap virtual server we can use to throw up code for the pilots to look at.17:21
th1aThis is just for demos.17:21
th1aNothing should go on that can't be nuked at any moment.17:22
th1aNo real data.17:22
th1aaelkner, You'll be able to use this too.17:23
th1aI'll put replaceafill in charge.17:23
th1areplaceafill, You're Vice President for Virtual Server Administration.17:23
aelknerdoes he get a special plack to go along with that title17:24
th1aHe's collecting them.17:24
th1areplaceafill has many titles.17:24
replaceafillth1a, we installing lucid in that one, right?17:24
th1aI'll have to see if they've already got an image for it.17:24
th1aOK, anything else replaceafill?17:24
* replaceafill checking...17:24
th1aWe should probably have a meeting soon just to discuss year transistions, since I kind of feel like I've left you adrift with that.17:25
replaceafilli have a few questions on that17:25
replaceafillbut i can wait17:25
yvlWednesday sounds good17:25
yvlat default time?17:26
replaceafilldefault time is good for me17:26
th1aWorking on FET XML?17:27
aelkneri've been waiting for you to comment on the email i sent recently17:27
th1aI'm in the process of doing that.17:28
aelknerbut yes, i'[ve written an view to inport the timetable schema17:28
aelkneri need more info from them, in particular, person lists17:28
th1aThere is a response that just came through from Jen.17:28
aelknerbut Jen did answer many of my questions17:28
th1aPresumably they'll provide separate lists of persons and subgroup enrollments.17:29
th1aSo you can process the XML now?17:29
aelkneri need to ask another question that didn't occur to me until i got to creating the actual timetable schema17:30
aelknernamely, what is the start ime of hour 117:30
aelknerand can we assume a duration of 60 minutes for each "hour"17:31
aelknerso i will ask them today about that one17:31
aelknerbut for now i'm assuming 9am for hour 1, 60 mines for each hour17:31
aelknerthe xml for subgroups has enough info to do the following17:32
aelkner1) create the timetable schema17:32
aelkner2) create classes (course info has course code only, so i'll need more there, too) and put teachers in them17:33
aelkner3) if we have the list of students that belong to each subgroup, then we could enroll them as well17:33
replaceafillth1a, linode provides 10.04 lts ;)17:33
aelknerso we need them to send us more xml files for teacher/student info and course info17:34
aelkneri'll send them an email today17:34
aelknerdid i include the right people in my email?17:35
th1aWell, you don't necessarily need to send it to everyone in Africa, ;-) but at this point it might not be a bad idea to remind everyone we're actually working on this now.17:35
th1aAlso, I don't think FET really cares about persons at all, so that data is probably in a spreadsheet or whatever.17:36
aelknerwell, the way i see it presently, i need the students belonging to the groups17:37
th1aIt probably wouldn't be a bad idea to look at FET's user interface at some point, aelkner.17:37
th1aI just sent a reply to Jen.17:37
th1aAnything else?17:37
aelkneryeah, i figured i'd have to get around to that, installing FET on my machine and all17:37
aelknerit's c++17:38
aelknerthat has to be installed manually17:38
th1aapt-get motherfucker!17:38
aelknerth1a, wtf?17:38
yvltypo ;)17:38
replaceafillE: Operación inválida: motherfucker!17:38
replaceafilldoesnt work here :(17:39
th1aoops, wrong window.17:39
th1aThere are packages, aelkner.17:39
yvlsudo apt-get fet17:39
aelknerah, i didn't see that in their docs17:39
aelkneri'll do that17:39
th1aI think that'll wrap things up.17:40
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:40
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:40
aelkneryou, too17:40
replaceafillthanks guys17:40
yvlsee you on Wed17:41
yvlhappy coding!17:41
th1aaelkner:  Oh, I'm unclear on whether you've just imported the xml or imported it, parsed it, and created the objects.17:42
aelkneri'm not sure what the first possibility means17:47
aelkneri mean, one always has to parse and create objects when one imports17:48
aelknerth1a, ?17:48
th1aI just wanted to make sure you didn't mean you'd just written the view to upload the file.17:49
aelknernow why would you think i meant that? :)17:49
th1aI'm just making sure.17:49
aelknerthere's no point in importing a file without processing it17:49
th1aI guess I was gone a whole week.17:50
th1aSo do you have something to do now?17:50
aelkneri just dd sudo apt-get install fet17:50
aelknerdid you do that yourself?17:51
th1aI have.17:51
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th1aYou might understand it more now that you know what it outputs.17:51
aelkneryeah, i i might be able to answer some questions myself looking at the app17:52
aelknerso i'll play with the app today and send an email with any question i have for them17:52
aelknerwe're still in the stage of working out the process, not just code17:53
th1aProbably you should also look at the other documents from Mpelembe and figure out what other data you need to start doing report cards, etc.17:53
th1aMake a list of things you need to know.17:54
aelkneri can send you that tonight rather than bother everyone with that, ok?17:55
th1aWell, Jen is your main contact, really.17:56
th1aSend it to her and me.17:56
aelknerleave schooltool-developers off of the emails?17:56
aelknerand Dave and the other guy?17:57
th1aI guess you should leave Gonzalo in on it.17:58
th1aDave isn't at the same school.17:58
aelknerbut not delvelopers17:59
aelknerit's always tricky to know when to include who on these emails17:59
th1aNot for just questions about a specific school.17:59
th1aIt isn't a big deal.17:59
th1aI mean, particularly, sending to too many people isn't a big deal.18:00
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replaceafillaelkner, zyt?19:18
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replaceafillth1a, i found a new i18n issue:
replaceafilli assigned it to aelkner, but i was thinking, can i take it? :)19:56
th1aYou are VP for I18n, after all.19:59
replaceafillthanks :)19:59
replaceafilland again the VP stuff :P20:00
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