IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2010-04-30

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ignasyvl, why did you mark the bug that could have taken years to fix as fixed? ;(12:56
yvlwait, which one?12:59
yvlby mistake, maybe13:00
yvlyou probably got a link in your mailbox?..13:01
yvlgimme? :)13:01
ignasthe one about skins13:01
yvlIt seemed fixed13:02
ignasthere was supposed to be a UI that would allow you to select the skins that are in the system13:03
ignasand order them in arbitrary orders by priority13:03
yvlah, yes, I should comment on that13:03
yvlbug title: Some method of skin selection required (difficult to customize)13:03
yvlbug cause: This issue comes up because cando creates it's own schooltool skin.13:04
yvlcause is fixed13:04
ignasso you could have Lyceum > Cambodgia > Cando skin13:04
ignasgenerated on the fly13:04
yvland I do not agree with the title's "difficult to customize"13:04
ignasthat would be like awesome :D13:04
ignasi must touch eeky fileys13:04
yvlyes, it would13:04
yvlbut it's a maintainance burden13:05
yvland a thing that... well, nobody needs13:05
yvlright now13:05
yvlespecially - selectable from UI13:05
yvlI mean - it's a very very fun toy13:05
ignasDay View does not show all events if timezone is not UTC -> not 100% sure it is fixed13:06
* yvl too13:06
yvlbut I don't see a point of having a bug13:06
ignasyeah, I guess users can re-report it13:06
ignasif they will see it13:06
yvlwhere nobody knows if it exists13:07
ignasbut it's more of a incomplete rather than fixed13:07
yvlwell, somebody submitted a bug13:08
yvlsomebody submitted a patch fixing the bug13:08
ignasahh, it's that one?>13:08
ignasin that case - there as a test case at least verbal13:08
yvldevelopers fixed the bug on their own13:08
yvlfew months before the patch13:08
yvland added unit tests13:08
yvlI think this is as good as it gets for old bugs like this :|13:09
ignasok, I am probably thinking about another bug related to this13:09
yvl(and developers wrote code very very similar to what the patch does, and wrote it on their own)13:09
yvlall of this caused my Bayesian filter to mark it as fixed :)13:10
yvlah, and comment on Skins13:13
yvlI'm leaning more and more towards two types of ST modification13:14
yvl1) eggs that define instances13:14
yvl2) eggs that extend functionality of some instance13:14
ignasmy issue with this plan is13:14
yvlinstances should have their own skins, plugins (2) should not13:15
ignasthat sometimes it is beneficial to have a plugin13:15
ignasdefine all the views in a skin13:15
ignaslike lyceum journal did13:15
ignasso that if 2 plugins redefine the same view13:15
ignasthey would not conflict13:15
yvlmy point is13:15
yvlthat they should conflict13:15
ignasthe question would be - which of these skins takes priorities13:15
ignasI am looking at the make schooltool better plugins13:16
yvlplugins should not redefine anything13:16
ignaslike "change some form"13:16
yvlextend - yes, replace - no13:16
yvlwant to replace - define an instance13:16
yvleasier to manage13:16
ignasthat hurts13:16
yvlin my opinion13:16
ignasI just want a simpler person form ;)13:17
ignasor swap two columns, or display person name differently in a report13:17
yvl1) that's a feature - plugable person forms in ST13:17
yvl2) there should be plugins that define schemas or whatever13:18
yvlyou can do your own small instance, and redefine in whatever way you want13:18
ignas"small instance" :)13:18
yvlthere's even unfinished documentation on that13:18
yvlnot available to public ;)13:18
yvlif your case is very custom and you want to write code that changes the behaviour13:19
yvlyou should define your own instance13:19
ignasthe biggest downside of this is that you make all plugins go through you13:19
ignasas in - if someone makes a small improvement in his instance13:19
yvlif your case is pretty common, ST should be modified to be flexible enough13:19
ignassharing it with someone else13:19
ignasis more difficult13:19
ignason the other hand you have more centralised control13:20
yvland there should be a way to develop small plugins that modify it the way you want13:20
ignasi mean - "my person form plugin" "my student gb ui fix plugin" and so on can be shared13:20
ignasif all of them are in my skin13:20
ignasand they are because that's how I started working on them13:20
ignaseither someone refactors them into plugins, or someone copy pastes the code into his instance13:21
ignas(copy paste wins)13:21
ignasthough I aggree that resolving the plugin skin priorities is not an easy thing either, and leads to a mess, just a different mess ;)_13:22
yvlwell, in reality we'll have to wait and see what happens13:23
yvlmy bet is that having more centralised control would be more beneficial to ST13:23
* ignas seen copy paste already, germans did it :)13:23
ignascopy lyceum person + modify to rename modules  + modify to suit them better13:23
ignaswas a total mess13:24
yvlI only imagine13:25
ignasbut gave me an insight into the mind of a sysadmin/student who can code and wants to get something worky13:29
ignasif you are evil - modify code in place13:29
ignasif you are less evil - copy code you want to modify and use some tools to plug it on top of the original code13:29
ignaskind of a different school of thought tan mine is13:30
yvlgood exp, isn't it? :)13:32
yvlwell, one of the workflows I'm considering is:13:32
yvlcheck out a branch of plugin that does what you want13:32
yvlmodify in place13:32
yvlpush back to LP13:32
yvlbuild an egg with Makefile13:32
yvlinstall an egg to your system / local python13:33
yvlbut it has it's own risks13:33
ignasin fact - get source deb, modify in place, build it and install it seems safer ;)13:34
ignasbut hey - I am a setuptools hater ;)13:34
ignasunless you can load custom eggs from some dir13:34
ignasand use them to override system packages13:34
yvlsince python 2.6 you can has stuff with local site packages AFAIR13:35
yvlwe can exploit that13:36
yvlalso - you can evil_install eggs to your system python13:36
ignasand then if something breaks13:36
ignasyou can always13:36
yvlyour'e a sysdamin are you not? :)13:37
yvland modifying stuff in place is less evil?13:38
ignasif you use evil_install you are a .... not a sys admin :D13:38
ignasyeah, in fact it leads to less problems than evil_install13:38
ignasyou can apt-get remove13:38
ignasapt-get install13:38
ignasand ta-da13:38
ignaseverything is pristine13:38
ignasyou even know what to back up13:39
ignasthe files you changed13:39
ignasso it's kind of more evil, but less problematic :D13:39
ignasespecially if you want to change the way term views work for an example of a UI thing13:39
ignasthat requires checking out 70 mb of bzr13:39
yvlI actually don't see a problem with people building their own debs, but NOT bothering me about it ;)13:39
yvl(or menesis in this case)13:39
ignasthat's the scary thing - they don't bother you about it13:40
ignasuntil they have made something that you can't fix :D13:40
ignasbut yeah, we wish we had these problems ;)13:42
yvlok, gotta grab something to eat13:42
yvla pleasure chatting with you, as always ;)13:42
ignaswanna see the german plugin13:43
ignasi think istill got the code13:43
yvlyes, please!13:43
* yvl brb13:44
yvl"sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad"14:49
yvl(Error ID: OOPS-1581EA1447)14:49
yvl+1 for OOPS as the prefix14:49
yvl200 untagged bugs14:55
* yvl rolls up his sleeves14:56
yvlguys, it seems I've gone on tagging rampage15:06
yvlapologies in advance for mistagged stuff15:06
ignasFirst you catches the bug, then you attaches a tag to it, and let it back into the wild, so you could observe it's intricate behavior at a distance...15:09
menesistagged-badly tag?15:10
yvl-* is currently broken in LP15:12
yvlas in - show untagged15:12
yvlignas - more like tagging cattle :)15:13
yvlthat one15:14
ignasbranding is the "assign" thingie15:14
ignasyou are saying "this bug is mine"15:14
yvlI know my analogy is wrong15:15
yvlbut it is fun15:15
yvl(because of psssst sound when branding; also I kind of player Overlord a bit too much this weekend)15:16
yvlmenesis, if you find something tagged-badly and have an idea how to tag it, please do15:21
menesisyvl, do not understand what's the point of such tag15:22
yvlI cannot find untagged bugs currently15:23
yvlbecause searching for those gives traceback in LP15:23
ignasnot a timeout15:23
yvland I want to mark some bugs that I want to re-tag later15:23
ignasbut a traceback15:23
yvla timeout15:23
ignasthey are timeout nazi15:23
ignassome queries that return a lot of content15:24
ignashave to be sent 3-4 times15:24
ignasbefore launchpad gives you the result15:24
yvlbtw, how is the "problems that arise when SchoolTool users use Apache mod-rewrite to embed the application inside another site" tag called?15:24
ignas+ apache15:24
ignasur just f-ups15:25
menesisif you don't know how to tag a bug, just leave it15:27
menesisyou can never tag all bugs, because new ones come in15:28
ignasnow that's a new low :) when I was young - I thought I can fix all the bugs, but now - i don't even think you can tag all of them :)15:30
yvlwell put15:32
menesisI don't think there's much value in tags anyway15:34
menesisif you are looking at bugs..15:34
menesisthe only thing I'm interested at the moment is will the bugs marked for 1.4.0 be fixed15:34
ignasto you - probably not, but to th1a they seem to be useful, as it makes it easier to assign tasks to relevant developers without asking developers whether they know anything about that bug15:35
menesistagged-badly is not useful15:36
ignasyes, that is just a workaround from what I understood, or a tag that is useful to people who are tagging bugs as a WIP tag15:37
menesisfixing bugs that high priority for release *yesterday* is more important than tagging already assigned bugs15:39
ignasyour point is correct, yvl should probably be doing programming work, not bug triaging work which is better left to people who can not do programming work ;)15:40
ignasbut IMHO it is a useful activity in general15:40
yvlwell, the code for the release is frozen15:41
yvlso no rush any more there15:41
yvlon the other hand, I'd like to plan out some refactorings15:41
yvltake out a big axe and start chopping bugs several at a time15:42
yvland current bug situation is out-of-control in my opinion15:43
menesisyes, that's important for work after the UDS15:43
menesisbut I'm waiting for bugfixes to do the final release15:44
yvlthere won't be any more bugfixes, as far as I'm aware15:45
yvlI'd say: :) !15:46
yvlit's probably one of the few times in ST history when people stopped cramming stuff *before* release not *at* or *after*15:47
yvlas for the tagging - UDS is one of the reasons why I'm doing it15:47
yvlhelps to getting overview of the current situation15:48
menesispeople stopped fixing high priority bugs assigned to them three weeks before the release15:49
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yvltwo weeks would have been sufficient15:51
menesisbut ok some of the bugs are features that did not make it15:52
menesisand there are many more bugs in the "lucid" milestone15:52
* menesis away15:55
yvlI agree15:55
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Lumierebtw they also tag cattle16:22
Lumierebranding is ownership16:24
Lumieretagging is to give them their ID number ;)16:24
yvlah, right16:24
yvlear-tagging :)16:25
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* th1a crawls out of bed.18:39
th1aI'm afraid my cold has mutated into bronchitis or pneumonia.18:39
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