IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-04-19

*** dlobo has quit IRC03:09
*** alga has quit IRC04:04
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool04:30
*** dlobo has quit IRC04:36
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool05:15
*** dlobo has quit IRC05:32
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool06:21
*** dlobo has quit IRC07:24
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool08:30
*** dlobo has quit IRC09:09
*** alga has joined #schooltool09:10
*** yvl has joined #schooltool09:56
*** ignas has joined #schooltool13:40
*** replaceafill has joined #schooltool15:06
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool15:38
replaceafillyvl, ping15:40
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool15:44
yvlpong, replaceafill15:46
replaceafillhey yvl, is there anyway to run a buildout if is down?15:47
yvlhmm, well, hmm15:49
mgedminif you've got everything cached, then yes15:52
mgedmintry bin/buildout -o15:52
mgedmin-o means "offline"15:52
* replaceafill tries -o15:53
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool16:13
*** th1a has joined #schooltool16:35
yvlhi th1a16:35
th1ahi aelkner, yvl, replaceafill.16:35
th1aHi eMBee.16:35
replaceafillgood morning/afternoon16:35
yvlmenesis is here, his laptop broke a bit16:35
th1ahi menesis.16:36
th1aIt is Julia's first birthday, and I've got both sets of grandparents here, so things are in a bit of chaos.16:36
th1aSo I'd be happy to keep this short today.16:37
th1aThe plan at this point is to release the list of grant winners tomorrow (probably late).16:38
th1aThe basic plan going forward will be replaceafill working on Cambodia and El Salvador,16:38
eMBeegood evening16:38
th1aaelkner working with three schools in Africa,16:38
th1aand yvl helping with both or neither as needed.16:39
yvlI like the plan :)16:39
th1aBut overall the timelines seem to work out -- aelkner's schools will be deploying in August.16:39
aelkneryvl: the both part or the neither part?16:39
th1aWell, we've got some neither AND both parts that need to be done too.16:40
th1ahi eMBee.16:40
th1aWhere are you in the world, eMBee?16:40
th1aaelkner, Why don't you just run through what you're going to be working on this week.   A few sentences.16:41
aelknerwell, i started last week with the cambodia package16:42
aelknerand got rid of the things that i wouldn't need and renamed everything to philippines16:43
aelknerso i have a schooltool.philippines package now16:43
th1a(aelkner is working on the gov't reports for the Philippines)16:44
* eMBee is in singapore16:44
aelkneri can't get it to build because the pypi ste is down16:44
th1a(for which we have spreadsheet versions now)16:44
replaceafillaelkner, i think is not pypi16:44
aelknercan we get that back p?16:44
th1aeMBee:  What kind of school are you working with?  Primary?  Secondary?  Later?16:45
th1aSorry I completely forgot about that after sending an email on Friday.16:45
th1aWhy do things always break on Fridays?16:46
th1aaelkner: Please continue...16:48
aelknerso i also starting looking at scholtool.export for its example of handling xls files16:49
aelkneri will continue to do that and to start writing my own code that fills in that xls template they gave us16:49
aelknerthough i don't know what the report sheets will look like16:50
th1aYou should be able to get started just by looking at the reports.16:51
aelknerthat's what i'll do16:51
aelknerso that's all i got for now16:51
th1aIf they say "Physics |1|2|3|4|F|"16:51
th1aThen you could start with |1|2|3|4|F| on the report sheets.16:51
aelkneras titles?16:52
aelknerscore system 0-100?16:52
th1aBasically, we're at the point where this will go through a few iterations.16:52
th1aThat is fine for starters.16:52
th1aIt is better to knock something together and get them to tell us what is wrong with it than to try to get them to come up with all the facts up front.16:52
th1aThat takes forever and never works.16:53
th1aSo yeah, just take that approach.16:53
aelknerhow will we get it to them?16:53
th1aMaybe start with a screencast and then a demo server.16:54
aelknerah, ok16:54
th1athanks, aelkner.16:55
aelkneri'll let you know when there's something for you to load16:55
th1areplaceafill:  It may take a few days (or more) for the conversation to start back up with Cambodia.16:55
replaceafilloh yes, i was getting worried about Javier not responding...16:56
th1aThey're a) busy and b) Javier can't really answer a lot of questions himself.16:56
th1aThings go fine once we get the conversations rolling, but there is a little boot-up time.16:57
replaceafillah ok, well the demo server is ready though16:57
th1aI'm thinking about things we had left over when we stopped that initial burst of work.16:58
th1aDifferent demographics for different groups?16:58
replaceafillah yes16:59
* yvl goes to look at the board...16:59
th1aIt would be good to get "progressing to next year" done.17:00
*** alga has quit IRC17:00
yvlI have several notes about other loose ends...17:00
th1aThe main thing to start with there is that it is something you do ONCE A YEAR.17:00
yvlreplacing schoolyear view with a simpler term view/edit17:00
th1ayvl:  Yes, that too.17:01
Lumiereth1a: has it right... a generic *once a year* system would be good17:01
yvlchanging default section view17:01
* Lumiere waves17:01
th1aThe year change-over shouldn't be like "press all these buttons in different contexts."17:01
th1aIt should be like a wizard you access from the manage screen that takes you through the steps.17:02
th1aMigrate groups?17:02
th1aAdvance levels?17:02
th1aBut slow, explicit, and non-magical is what we want.17:02
ignaswizards are hard, let's go shopping17:03
th1aFollow me?17:03
th1aWell, not *really* a wizard.17:03
Lumierehow about just a single view that kicks off the processes and steps through17:04
* Lumiere hates the click here do do x then click next... thing17:04
yvlThey simply need a list of classes (11a, 11b, etc.) in say year 200917:04
ignasDo foo bar: [Do] and a table with 10 rows of that?17:04
yvland then go to these classes one-by-one17:04
ignasand the [Do] becomes a checkbox17:04
yvland transfer each student to a new year or leave him in the same year17:05
ignasthough yvl should have experience of year to year switchovers from ivija work17:05
yvlsorry, grade17:05
yvltransfer to new grade or leave at the same17:05
th1aThere are just a few moving parts.17:05
th1aMove students?17:05
Lumiereyvl: make that a "transfer all or select students not to transfer"17:05
th1aPromote students?17:05
Lumierepromote is better then move17:06
yvlthey can click each student separately for now17:06
th1aLumiere, it is two different things, potentially.17:06
th1aYeah... it is ok if this takes someone a while to do.17:06
yvlslow-and-extremely-obvious is much, much better than a-bit-easier-but-makes-me think17:07
yvlat least in our scenario17:07
th1aAnd also the kind of thing where confirmation screens are good.17:07
* yvl agrees17:07
yvland extreme simplicity in school year transfer was kind of a requirement in Cambodia case17:08
ignasquestion - is this promoting thing performed "in schooltool"17:08
ignasor just "entered into schooltool" ?17:08
ignasinterfaces for "i have this list of persons, I already know the status of" and I just want to express it in schooltool17:09
ignasare a bit different from ones, where schooltool is the definitive source17:09
th1aBy default, in most places, most students are promoted at the end of the year.17:09
ignasand you are using schooltool to help you decide on what to do with a student17:09
th1aSchoolTool would be the definitive source for this.17:09
th1aignas:  Ah, well, yes, that's the idea.17:09
ignasin one case - search and categories are important, in the other - quick access to relevant student data from the transfer view is17:10
th1aThe initial implemenation will be less helpful than you'd want.  ;-)17:10
ignasjust a thought...17:10
th1aThat's closely related to another necessary addition -- a more explicit tracking of the final grade for a student in a section.17:11
th1aRight now it is just a cell in a report sheet that can be pulled for a report, but it doesn't have the semantic meaning it should.17:11
th1aSo that's almost certainly coming soon to build some of the reports we'll need.17:12
th1aThat is, we need to be able to explicitly query "Did Justas pass CS 101?"17:12
th1aWithout having to know which column in which report sheet to query.17:13
yvlCambodia case or generic ST?17:13
th1aWhich reminds me, another thing we need to do in the post-Lucid trunk is decide how many other parts of Cambodia to pull into core.17:14
th1ae.g., make "Add student" the default in core.17:14
yvlyeah, some of the things could definitely be reimplemented in trunk17:15
th1aI'll have to make a list.17:15
th1areplaceafill:  Perhaps you could come up with a proposal for progressing to next year.17:16
replaceafillah ok17:16
replaceafillEl Salvador needs that too17:16
*** dlobo has quit IRC17:17
th1aEveryone needs it.  ;-)17:17
replaceafillture :D17:17
replaceafillalthough El Salvador has grade constraints to advance to the next level17:17
th1aAlso, don't get hung up on the wording in the bug.  That's just how Javier described it.  The actual implementation doesn't have anything to do with his perception.17:17
replaceafillah ok17:18
th1aThe grade constraints can come later.17:18
th1aOK, so write up a brief proposal for that.17:19
* yvl senses a discussion coming up...17:19
th1aImmediately or after replaceafill makes his proposal?17:20
yvlsome time later, when stuff needs to get into generic ST17:20
th1aOh... I'd do this part as generic ST.17:21
yvlsince I'm having trouble imagining that part done in a generic way17:22
yvlI'll wait for proposal17:22
th1aIt seems pretty generic to me.17:22
th1aEspecially if you don't try to do a lot of guessing.17:22
th1athanks replaceafill.17:23
yvlwell, I didn't finish up remaking catalogs yet17:24
yvlbut I'm close17:24
yvl(doing them second time basically took a little bit more time than before)17:24
yvlthen there are several things for this week17:24
yvllucid release17:24
yvlI'll review and merge the branches submitted by Douglas and Alan17:25
yvl(though some things, say, removal of fieldsets in intervention raises questions)17:25
aelknerhow' that?17:26
replaceafillth1a, old and new17:26
aelkneri removed the fieldsets becuase they were hiding a problem chrome was having with self-closing divs17:27
th1areplaceafill, That's right.17:27
yvlare you sure chrome was having a problem?17:27
ignasself closing divs?17:27
yvlthat browser is implemented quite well17:27
th1aThere was a problem.17:27
ignas<div /> is not a valid tag in case you called it a self closing div17:27
yvlit's known that chromium renders *malformed* html differently that other browsers17:28
th1aSo... does the view *look* different now?17:28
yvlhence - raises questions17:28
aelknerno, it looks the same17:29
th1aThe div is now providing the same style?17:29
aelknerit appears the same to the user17:30
aelknerfieldsets don't need style17:30
aelknerthey already draw the box17:30
th1aOK, fine.  We cleaned up the <div /> and now it works.17:30
ignasfieldsets also can have a <legend>17:30
th1aOK, moving on.17:30
ignaswhich divs do not17:31
yvlmenesis had some comment on the merge17:31
yvlthe comment seemed right17:31
yvlthe diff looked weird17:31
yvlmoving on17:31
yvlif anybody is up for additional testing17:32
yvlplease upgrade to Lucid17:32
th1aYes, I need to bang on it and update some documentation.17:32
yvlyou'll need to enable ST PPAs after upgrade17:32
yvlcurrently the release should work17:33
yvlwe may be doing the RC1 on Fri (I know th1a loves Fri releases)17:33
th1aWell... can we not push it to Karmic on Friday?17:34
yvleither push to Lucid only, or not push anywhere17:34
yvlI currently have a broken upgraded ST @ home, but menesis mentioned he worked around the issue recently17:34
th1aAnd give me some warning.  ;-)17:34
yvlthis time... yes :)17:35
yvlwill do17:35
yvlwell, and there's the thing with calendar events17:35
th1aI'm afraid we're just going to have to fix that.17:36
yvlbut not in Lucid, right ;)17:36
yvlat least - not now :)17:36
yvlwell, that's it from me17:36
th1aThat's not something we'll backport.17:36
th1aWe're going to need to do separate development releases this cycle.17:37
th1aThat standard Lucid users won't pick up.17:37
th1aThe pilot sites and perhaps people who need flexible section scheduling will have to ride the bleeding edge.17:38
yvlwe can even set up alternative PPA :)17:38
th1aIt is time for that.17:38
th1aWe might work that out in Brussels...17:39
yvlsure, th1a17:39
th1aSpeaking of which, I guess I'll book a flight today arriving May 10 and leaving the 13th?17:39
yvlyou didn't book the flight yet?17:40
th1ayvl:  We on the same page for that?17:40
th1aNo, actually.17:40
yvlyou might have some trouble with that17:40
yvlat least now17:40
th1aYou mean, getting a flight at all?17:41
th1aBecause of the volcano?17:41
yvlat least in the nearest few days17:41
th1aI'll check it out.17:42
th1aThe past few days have been very hectic here...17:42
th1aSpeaking of which, I have to attend to my houseguests.17:42
th1aAny last words?17:42
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:43
yvlwell, happy birthday to little Julia17:43
th1aHave a great week guys!17:43
th1aHopefully I'll get through to someone who can restart
th1aI might have to remember what IRC channel to ask on.17:43
replaceafillplease :)17:44
yvldevelopers would be grateful17:44
th1aYou guys need eggs from there?17:44
yvlwell, worst case scenario, we can set something up at POV17:44
yvlbut you know... buildbots and everything are there17:44
th1aOK, I'll try #canonical-sysadmin17:44
replaceafillaelkner, is it possible to grade with a score system like 0.0 to 10.0 in the gradebook?17:46
replaceafillaelkner, maybe something like Percent..., right?17:47
aelknerno, we only have a percent score system that requires 0,0 to 100.017:47
replaceafillbut i could create one like that, correct?17:47
aelknercreate the score system you mean?17:47
replaceafill Decimal(0), Decimal(10), Decimal(6))17:47
replaceafillthe thing is that teachers here want to grade like 5.617:48
replaceafillor 9.217:48
replaceafilland even though they could use 0-100 they dont like it17:48
replaceafillthey get confused :(17:48
aelknerhaven't tried it lately17:49
aelknerlet me try someting17:49
replaceafillcool thanks!17:49
replaceafilli was wondering if percent was also discrete17:50
aelknerthe gradebook allows 6.8 even in a 0-10 ranged values score system17:50
aelknerso i was wrong when i said no17:50
aelknerno need for percent score system17:50
aelknerjust use ranged values 0-1017:50
aelknerand 5.6 will be valid17:51
replaceafillah great!17:51
replaceafillthanks aelkner will try that17:51
aelknerno prob17:52
th1aI think nobody wants to deal with our oddball server.17:53
th1aWe may have to give in and move it someplace we can manage it ourselves.17:53
Lumierewhere is it located atm?18:04
Lumiereand does it cost any money? :)18:04
th1aLumiere: It is at ServerPronto (awful) but free (to us, via Canonical).18:29
th1aI did get someone's attention at Canonical, so hopefully we'll be rebooted shortly.18:30
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool18:37
*** dlobo has quit IRC18:53
replaceafilleeeeeehhhhhhhh is up again!!19:14
*** Aiste has quit IRC19:41
*** ignas has quit IRC19:48
mgedminschooltool ir up!20:17
mgedminwas it down for two months?20:17
mgedminI got two mailman reminders20:17
replaceafillmgedmin, i think it went down last week20:17
replaceafilllast friday20:19
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool20:34
*** replaceafill has quit IRC20:37
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool20:37
*** ignas has joined #schooltool20:38
*** mgedmin has quit IRC20:46
*** dlobo has quit IRC21:06
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool21:15
*** dlobo has quit IRC21:55
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool22:00
*** dlobo has quit IRC22:00
*** jelkner has quit IRC22:06
*** dlobo has joined #schooltool23:06
*** dlobo has quit IRC23:35

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!