IRC log of #schooltool for Thursday, 2010-04-15

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th1ayvl: ayt?16:42
yvlyes, th1a16:42
th1aSo China has turned into a bit of a clusterfuck.16:43
th1aI'm not sure whether you were in on any of the relevant earlier emails.16:43
yvlI may have missed those16:44
th1aBasically, they said "Hey, we can handle sections that start and end different times by changing the beginning and end times of a term every time we make a new section."16:44
th1aAnd I said, "Um... that probably won't really work."16:44
th1aI should have said "NO!  Breaking that seal voids your warranty!"16:45
th1aSo now they're like "Hey, where'd our journal data go?!?"16:45
th1aTheir geeks were a little too determined and resourceful in trying to force SchoolTool to do what they wanted.16:46
th1aAnd of course, they've managed to break the two of the most complicated and least understood parts of SchoolTool.16:47
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yvlwait, what is the second one?16:48
th1aTimetables and Journal (ok, not the most complicated, but pretty much 100% Ignas).16:48
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yvlwell, Journal is closely knit to ST calendar events16:49
yvlmessing with term dates... may produce some strange things with events16:49
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yvlokay... how hard should I bang my head at this problem?16:51
yvl(and don't say fairly hard ;) )16:51
th1aI asked if we could look at their Data.fs.16:51
th1aAnd that shouldn't be a problem.16:51
yvlgetting live data would be a very good start16:52
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th1aEsp. since you could chop off the end of the file to see earlier states.16:52
yvland save me a lot of "creative poking"16:52
th1aI'd like to have a general handle on what the issue is.16:53
th1aI've already stressed to them that the solution to the bug almost certainly includes either:16:53
th1a1) Not allowing the dates of a term to be edited after a section is applied to it (except emergency days) or;16:54
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th1a2) Updating the dates of all assigned sections whenever a term is modified.16:54
th1aWhich will break their workaround anyhow.16:54
yvlyou know, I'll have to look at the code before commenting on this one16:55
yvlchanging term dates a lot was not expected by design16:56
yvlespecially with a lot of live data in the journal16:56
yvlbecause... it makes no sense16:56
th1aAnd to be clear, it is not a case we want to support.16:56
yvlwe want to develop a decent support of sections with timeframe or something similar16:57
yvlbut that's another issue to be dealt with after the release16:57
th1aWe may just refactor the whole thing to make it vastly simpler.16:57
th1aLike we discussed -- much more manual.16:57
th1a(this would be, say, in November, maybe)16:58
yvlI'd like to take a look at it much earlier16:59
th1aTake a look at it now.16:59
yvl3-5 days, not implementing anything16:59
yvlI mean - take a deep look :)16:59
yvlwell, I can do that, after catalogs are fixed16:59
yvlas in soonish17:00
yvlcalendar events are a sensitive place in ST, so randomly implementing stuff will definitely break17:00
yvlok, so I think we're on the same page17:01
yvlI'll give it part/most of the next week17:01
th1aThat would be ok if everything else seems on track for the release.17:02
yvlwell, yes, use common sense as usual :)17:02
th1aYou should probably be thinking of expansively about the possibilities though.17:02
th1aI guess the main bit that's closely tied is the journal.17:03
th1aWell, I'm just wondering if the dates can be somewhat decoupled from the concept of the term.17:04
th1aThe term is necessary for grades.17:04
th1ae.g., I got a "B" in the fall semester.17:04
th1aAnd it tells you when the sections meet.17:05
yvlyes, I'm thinking along the similar lines17:05
th1aSo one thing you might not know is that the section meetings as defined by the term/timetable were originally not persistent.17:06
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th1aThey were calculated each time.17:06
th1aThen Ignas made them a special kind of calendar event.17:06
yvlI remember talking to him about that17:07
th1aI don't understand exactly how they retain their "special" status.17:07
yvldifferent objects, if memory serves me17:08
th1aBut we might do something like moving the emphasis on meeting times to the section itself.17:08
th1aAnd making the term more like a template for meetings.17:08
th1aYou create the section, and it tries to pull its expected times from the template.17:09
th1aBut you can also just go into a view on the section and do it manually.17:09
yvlth1a, I kind of have to go...17:09
yvlthis is an interesting discussion, can me move it?17:10
yvlsay, roughly on Tue/Wed17:10
th1aThat will work.17:10
yvlbasically - when I've loaded the context of implementation details on calendaring/sections/terms/events17:10
yvland journal17:10
yvlallright then...17:11
yvlgood day to you, sir ;)17:11
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replaceafillth1a, ping22:04
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th1areplaceafill, pong.22:41
replaceafillth1a, you still here?23:04
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