IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2010-02-05

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replaceafillaelkner, ping08:03
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th1aHow's it going, replaceafill?16:17
replaceafillhey th1a, i've implemented the checkbox to deactivate the email service16:18
th1aAh.  Good.16:18
replaceafillfound a remaining bug in the gradebook16:18
replaceafilland it seems like i have to merge fsufitchi work into a branch from yvl16:19
replaceafilli've been thinking about the states too16:19
replaceafillquestion about that btw:16:19
replaceafillshould the states be independent from school years?16:20
th1aAh... I wrote this up somewhere...16:21
replaceafilloh, maybe it's in the blueprint16:21
replaceafill"The enrollment state of a person is not set by year."16:23
replaceafill"It represents the *current* status of the student."16:23
replaceafillth1a, i've been thinking about using relationships for this16:24
replaceafilllike courses <-> sections <-> enrollment16:25
replaceafillglobal status <-> substatus <-> student16:25
replaceafillor something like that16:25
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th1areplaceafill, back from the shower...17:00
th1aThat should be fine.17:00
aelknerreplaceafill: how do you envision the relationship model?17:02
replaceafillaelkner, kind of like the relationship with courses and sections17:02
aelknerthose are lists17:03
aelkneris yours also?17:03
replaceafilllists as in python lists?17:03
aelkneras in more than one17:03
aelknerwhat is a status object?17:03
replaceafillyes, but for courses for example we use to use only one, right?17:04
aelkneri only remember it being a list17:04
aelknerbut that doesn't mean a relationship has to be to a list17:04
aelkneri'm just wondering what the possible structure of the relationship would be17:05
replaceafill    courses = RelationshipProperty(relationships.URICourseSections,17:05
replaceafill                                   relationships.URISectionOfCourse,17:05
replaceafill                                   relationships.URICourse)17:05
replaceafillaelkner, i was thinking of the same way competencies are associated with courses and sections in cando17:05
replaceafillthey use relationshipproperties too17:06
aelknerbut once again, they are multiple17:06
aelkneri'm just wondering if there is an example of a relationship to a singleton17:06
replaceafillno that i know, but again, ST is using only one course for sections17:07
replaceafillwhen it's a list17:07
replaceafilli think it's a UI thing not to allow them to be many17:07
aelknerST allows mulit-course sections17:08
aelknerisn't that the reason you changed the gradebook to use a join?17:08
aelknerfor course title17:08
replaceafillno, the reason of the change is when you DONT HAVE courses17:08
replaceafillassociated with the section17:09
replaceafilland you use list()[0]17:09
replaceafilli havent seen a title being "course1, course2" in st17:09
replaceafillbecause the UI doesn't allow it i guess17:09
aelknerfor some reason i thought we allowed it17:09
replaceafilli remember ignas explaining that *in theory* you could have a section related with many courses17:10
replaceafillwhat i like about relationships is the membership handling17:11
ignasyeah, multi course sections were kind of planned some time ago, you should ask th1a once more what he thinks about it ;)17:11
replaceafillaelkner, you had some thoughts about the enrollment status?17:13
aelknerno, i was just curious about it17:14
aelkneri was wondering if you could have more than one status17:14
aelknerand what the technical advantage was in using a relationship17:15
replaceafillit shouldn't be neccessary i guess according to the blueprint17:15
replaceafillfor me it is relationship handling membership17:15
replaceafillbut i'd have to test things out17:15
replaceafillto find out17:15
aelknerif it were just one possible status, i would just add an attribute to IBasicPerson17:16
aelknerno evolve script necessary17:16
aelknerjust a class attribute like status = None17:16
replaceafillaelkner, but the user can set custom sub-status17:16
aelkneris that contained in the status?17:17
replaceafilli was thinking of: basic status and extended status17:17
aelkneror is it in addation17:17
replaceafilli was thinking of two attributes17:17
replaceafillbasic_status and extended_status maybe17:17
replaceafillthe first one, its values are not supposed to change i guess17:18
replaceafilland the second one, the user can define new values17:18
aelknerthose could also be basic person attrib utes17:18
aelkneri'm just wondering if we want to create a relationship every tme we add an attribute to an aobject17:18
aelkneri mean, just to avaoid over-engineering17:18
replaceafillagain, i like the membership handling of relationships17:18
* th1a wakes up again.17:19
aelknerit handles membership well17:19
replaceafillbut it's just an idea anyway :)17:19
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aelknerbut is it necessary for this case?17:19
th1aRelationships are more robust.17:20
aelknerthe whole point of the word membership suggests an open ended group of objects of a certain type17:20
th1aEach person *must* have one and only one basic status.17:20
replaceafilli even envision the same membership form you use for enrollment :)17:20
aelknera section can have any number of students17:20
replaceafillwhen you are assigning multiple people to some status17:21
aelknera student any number of advisors17:21
th1aEach person *may* have one extended status.17:21
replaceafilla section any number of courses (but we dont allow it)17:21
aelknerstill, a singleton17:21
th1aI guess in theory it could be multiple.17:21
th1aBut if we want to add logic later we'd better keep it to one.17:21
aelknerwell, if it could be multiple17:22
aelknerthen how about having both status and substatus as members of the same relationship17:22
replaceafillaelkner, the other option is a single attribute with a constraint to a vocabulary or something17:22
th1aIsn't one of the main reasons to use relationships that it is easier to do clean up if the global status object is deleted?17:22
aelknerthen, when you ask for the status' you get the list17:22
replaceafillkind of like categories in the gradebook17:23
aelknerth1a: yes17:23
replaceafillth1a, yes17:23
th1aI think it is mostly a matter of style.17:23
aelknerthat's also what i was asking about before17:23
replaceafillthat's what i value in cando17:23
replaceafillyou get rid of the competencies and the courses get cleaned automatically17:23
aelkneri agree17:23
th1aFewer bugs down the road.17:23
aelkneronce again, i'd suggest just having the one relationship17:24
aelknerand put the status, sub-status, and any future status ideas there17:25
aelknerrather than creating one relationship for EACH status type17:25
aelknerthat would seem like overkill17:25
aelknerwhereas if you have an open-ended number of status'17:25
aelkneryou will always code with the assumption that the list could contain any combination17:26
aelknerright now, that simply being:17:26
aelkner1) nothing17:26
aelkner2) status alone17:26
aelkner3) status and sub-status17:26
aelknerbut that could change in the future17:26
aelknerand using the one relationship would stay viable17:27
th1aIs anyone arguing the opposite?17:27
aelkneri thought replaceafill was suggesting having two relationships17:27
th1aOh, I see.17:27
th1aYes, replaceafill is right.17:28
aelknerabout what?17:28
th1aaelkner's strategy is more complicated.17:28
th1aOne basic relationship.17:29
th1aOne extended relationship.17:29
th1aThat's all you need.17:29
replaceafilli have thought of two global containers app['schooltool.basic_status'] and app['schooltool.extended_status']17:29
replaceafillboth with status objects inside17:29
replaceafillor whatever you want to call them17:29
replaceafillthe basic_status container should have only three objects17:30
aelknerwhat does a status object look like?17:30
replaceafillpre, during, post17:30
replaceafillthe user can modify the contents of the second container17:30
replaceafilltwo attributes (maybe in ibasicperson) would point to both containers17:30
th1aIt is ok to bake this into basic person17:31
replaceafillthe part that i still dont get is the history17:31
replaceafillth1a, you want something like: (datetime, status_changed)17:31
replaceafillor (datetime, from_this_status, to_this_status)17:32
th1aOh, probably the second is safer.17:32
replaceafillwe use something like the second in competencies in cando17:32
th1aAlso, you should probably store the statuses as strings rather than object references.17:32
replaceafillfor me the status objects are not that complicated17:33
replaceafilljust a title attribute maybe17:33
replaceafilland an id17:33
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replaceafillstatus_id and status_description17:33
* replaceafill not sure about the names yet :/17:33
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dlobohey th1a a quick q, does schooltool use ZODB or does it use mysql as the database?20:32
replaceafilldlobo, zodb :)20:33
dloboreplaceafill: thanx20:33
dlobogetting a few more requests on drupal + civicrm + SIS, so i suspect i'll take a look at schooltool and figure out integration this summer20:34
replaceafilldlobo, theres a schooltool.xmlrpc branch if you're interested20:34
dlobocool. i'll be back on the channel actively when i start looking. tackling a few non-SIS issues at the school this year :)20:35
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