IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2010-02-03

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mattva01replaceafill: tarball is here, :
replaceafillmattva01, thanks01:27
Lumierehi mattva0101:29
mattva01hey, i moved upstairs sorry :p01:29
mattva01if you said anything in the last 15 minutes i missed it,lumiere01:30
replaceafillmattva01, you can delete it now if you want01:30
replaceafilli already download it01:30
mattva01gotta love dropbox :p01:31
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replaceafillLumiere, do you remember about a RAM issue you got when you were compiling lxml?01:36
mattva01replaceafill, you have everything you need from me?01:38
replaceafillmattva01, i think so, thanks01:38
replaceafillmattva01, did jelkner tell you about the ssl stuff?01:38
mattva01replaceafill, give me a little bit to implement it in your apache setup01:40
replaceafillnp, thanks01:40
mattva01replaceafill, mind giving me an account with sudo access temporarily01:40
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mattva01do you want the private cert on the server to be encrypted (more secure, but requires you to type in the passphrase everytime you start apache)01:41
replaceafillhow was set up in the old
replaceafillif i do "sudo /etc/init.d/apache restart" it will ask me for the passphrase?01:42
dkg0if you have an encrypted key, it'll prompt you via the SSLPassPhraseDialog option01:44
mattva01dkg0: thanks :p01:45
replaceafilldkg0, great! thanks01:45
dkg0mattva01: i think you were away when i asked earlier: is there a way to run schooltool using system-installed zope components?01:45
dkg0i'd rather not have schooltool have its own local copies of everything for maintenance reasons.01:46
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mattva01dkg0: afaik, no it is not. but th1a,aelkner and replaceafill may know better then I01:47
Lumieredkg0: the people to ask are ignas or yvl01:48
Lumierethey're the ones who made the buildout01:48
Lumiere(menesis might be able to help)01:49
Lumieredkg0: all 3 of them are GMT+201:49
dkg0Lumiere: thanks.  i'm still a n00b when it comes to this deployment approach.01:49
Lumieredkg0: the truth is... it doesn't copy that much01:49
Lumiereand the eggs are to ensure that it is using our zope kgs01:50
dkg0it copies the system python binary, actuall!01:50
Lumierethe eggs may be a requirement...01:50
dkg0what is kgs?  (sorry, new to the terminology)01:50
Lumierebecause of the known good set01:50
dkg0ah, thanks.01:50
mattva01Lumiere: thanks, I had forgotten who was actually in charge of the buildout01:50
Lumierewe use a versions file (it's in buildout.cfg)01:51
Lumierethat sets the max or min versions we need01:51
dkg0i'll read up on that, thanks.  that gives me something to go on.01:52
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* Lumiere bashes his head into the desk repeatedly17:06
yvlahh, ye olde
Lumierethank you17:11
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aelknerLumiere: thanks much for your help17:20
*** Lumiere sets mode: -o Lumiere17:21
aelknerLumiere: why do you happen to be removing yourself as channel operator?17:21
Lumierecause I set those modes17:22
Lumierea few days ago17:22
Lumiereand never did so17:22
* Lumiere also set +t17:22
Lumiereso no more random /topic changes17:22
aelknerwho besides you has the rights to change topic?17:23
Lumiereth1a: ignas yvl17:24
aelknerin what sense did you take the randomness away?17:24
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ignasLumiere, yes?17:26
Lumiereyou have op still17:26
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jelknerth1a, hi tom, i've got a few questions about configuring out intervention system...21:32
jelknerare you around?21:33
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jelknergood afternoon th1a_21:35
jelknerann and i will be setting up interventions this afternoon21:36
jelknerwe started looking at it this morning... nice!21:36
th1a_It has been a little crazy here... Vivian has pneumonia and I had a new water heater put in.21:36
jelkneroh, is this a bad time?21:36
th1a_Now is quiet.21:36
jelknerok, i'll get right to the point21:37
jelknerour ST instance is a copy of the main cando one21:37
jelknerso the admins in the system include the IT supervisor, the Adult Ed supervisor, etc.21:37
jelknerthat is totally appropriate for CanDo, but not for Interventions21:38
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jelknerinterventions will be much more inhouse people21:38
th1a_Can you elaborate?21:38
jelknerour guidence councilor, the directors of our two in school programs21:39
jelknerit boils down to two different focii:21:39
th1a_Note that we have "site manager" and "school administrator" roles, but at this point treat them as equivalent in most cases.21:39
jelkner1. a system wide one -- cando21:39
jelkner2. a school only one -- intervention21:40
jelknercando is a CTE concern21:40
jelknerCTE comprises a small slice of each school, but goes across our system21:40
jelknerso Kris Martini, for example, who is the head of ICT within APS, will want CanDo data21:41
th1a_He wants reports?21:41
jelknerhe will *not* be involved in interventions21:41
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jelkneryes, CanDo reports, but I'm not trying to address that now21:41
jelknerthat's dave's concern21:41
jelkneri'm only concerned with interventions at the moment21:41
jelknerKris Martini shows up on interventions when we create them21:42
jelknerhe shouldn't21:42
jelknerso my first order of business is figuring out how to turn that off21:42
th1a_What does Kris Martini need to do with CanDo?21:42
jelknerhe is responsible for competency tracking APS wide21:42
jelknerjust competencies21:43
Lumierejelkner: s/for/for CTE/21:43
th1a_Does he need anything other than reports?21:43
jelknernot grades21:43
jelknernot interventions21:43
jelkneri guess not21:43
* Lumiere notes kmartini should be a clerk21:43
Lumierenot an admin21:43
th1a_That's what I'm thinking.21:43
aelknerguys: i could see the need for different types of administrator groups being needed here21:43
aelkner1) person admin21:43
th1a_I think he is essentially a clerk.21:43
aelkner2) cando admin21:43
jelkneraelkner, yes indeed21:43
aelkner3) intervention admin21:43
jelknerthat's what i'm driving at21:43
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Lumierewe got away from that for a reason21:44
th1a_Here's the concept right now:21:44
th1a_school administrator is the principal.21:44
th1a_Essentially someone who should be able to drill down into everything because it is his business.21:44
th1a_site manager currently has the same permissions because if someone has a bug he's the first point of contact to look in there and see what is going on.21:45
th1a_I don't know exactly how schools manage the permissions of IT guys, but basically, if they want to get at the data, I imagine they can.21:45
th1a_So currently, they can see everything.21:45
Lumierewe sign our lives away on NDAs and contracts21:46
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th1a_It isn't based on technical fixes.  More on sending you to jail.21:46
jelknerth1a_ there is another category of administrator21:46
jelknerPhyllis Gandy is the supervisor of Business, Marketing, and Computer Science21:46
jelknershe cuts across schools21:47
th1a_Well, SchoolTool isn't actually designed to be used that way.21:47
Lumierejelkner: schooltool is not multi-school yet21:47
jelknerbut only needs / should have access to teachers under her (not math, science, etc)21:47
aelknerjelkner: i think th1a is going to get to explaining about using security crowds instead of groups21:47
jelkneri understand21:47
th1a_I'm just saying that the next category of administrator only really needs reports.21:47
Lumierewhich is the point of the clerk group21:48
th1a_They don't have to and probably shouldn't be able to peer into your gradebook.21:48
th1a_It is close enough to the point of the clerk group.21:48
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th1a_Clerks can also do things like add students to the school, etc.21:48
jelknerth1a_ so i should change phyllis and kris to clerks?21:48
th1a_In theory.21:49
jelkneri will also need to add analia and peggy as administrators21:49
Lumierecando doesn't support it atm21:49
jelknersince we will want them in on all interventions21:49
Lumierethe truth is21:49
jelknerand the guidence councilor21:49
Lumierewe need to use the @leaders functionality21:49
Lumiereor w/e it is on courses21:49
th1a_Don't go apeshit adding people as administrators.21:49
jelkneri'm not doing *anything* until i talk to you21:49
jelknerthat's why i'm here21:50
th1a_aelkner:  Doesn't SLA add their counselor somehow?21:50
jelknerbut ann and i want to setup interventions this afternoon if we can21:50
aelknerto the admin group21:50
th1a_OK, that's not quite right.21:50
jelknerand we will need 3 people in this building to be able to see them all21:50
aelknerwe don't have a guidance group21:50
jelkner1. supervisor of the HILT program21:50
jelkner2. supervisor of the Academic Academy21:51
aelknerwe have an advisors crowd21:51
aelknerbut that's dynamic21:51
jelkner3. Guidance Councilor21:51
th1a_Right now you can only add people to the message list if they're in the auto-generated choices, right?21:51
jelkneradmins are all automatically there21:51
jelknerthis is what brought up the issue21:51
jelknerkris and phyllis are there21:51
jelknerbut shouldn't be21:51
aelkneradmins, advisors, teachers of the student21:51
jelknernow i know what to do with advisor21:52
jelknerpeggy should be set as advisor to all academic academy students21:52
th1a_Yes, in the short term making those people advisors would be the best route.21:52
jelknerand analia as advisor to all HILT students21:52
jelknerthat would work wonderfully21:53
jelknerthen we just change the unwanted admins to clerks21:53
jelknerand we are done21:53
th1a_Well, yes, but making them clerks won't help them much.21:53
th1a_Clerks probably don't have permission to do anything in CanDo.21:53
jelknerwe don't want them in our inverventions21:53
aelkneryes, good point21:53
jelknerfor this year21:53
Lumierebecause welsh doesn't like "clerk" as an idea21:53
jelkneri could just remove them entirely21:54
jelknersince we are only doing this on our in house instance21:54
jelknerbut for next year i hope to be able to use all these ST's features on 1 instance21:54
jelknerso we would have til september to figure that out21:54
aelknerit's good that you raised these issues now21:55
th1a_Yes, if they don't need to log into CanDo and do anything, they shouldn't be admins anyhow.21:55
jelkneraelkner, that's what i'm here for ;-)21:55
* Lumiere calls jelkner out on that... 21:55
Lumierejelkner: next year you'll be on your own instance21:55
Lumiereusing whatever the bleeding edge features of next year are21:55
jelknerLumiere, believe it or not, i'm not isolated any more21:56
jelkneri'm getting my colleagues onto ST21:56
jelknerso i can't screw around with them21:56
jelknerand need to work with them21:56
jelknerso i'll change, you'll see ;-)21:56
Lumierejelkner: I'm not holding my breath ;)21:57
* jelkner acknowledges his past history leaves big reasons for doubt...21:57
jelknerfor now21:58
jelknercan i just remove the offending admins and add analia and peggy as advisors?21:58
jelknerthat will solve all problems except the guidance councilor21:58
jelknerwho need to see all interventions in our building21:58
th1a_You could do that.21:58
th1a_I'd just add her as advisor too.21:59
th1a_It is a list.21:59
jelknerthat rocks21:59
jelknernice design21:59
aelknerthat's a short-term solution21:59
th1a_Actually, it may be best.21:59
jelkneraelkner, what i need now is a short-term solution21:59
LumiereI like that it is22:00
aelknerbut i wouldn't think a large school would want to add guidance counselors as advisors to all students22:00
th1a_The long term solution may just require making it easier to efficiently assign advisors to multiple students.22:00
aelknertake SLA for instance22:00
th1a_Well... what's the drawback?22:00
jelknerand as flint always tells me... "there is *nothing* so permanent as a temporary solution"!22:00
* Lumiere suggests the global interventions system get an advisors list22:00
th1a_Many schools have several counselors who are responsible for different groups of kids.22:00
jelkneraelkner, a large school with have several22:00
jelknereach with their own group22:01
LumiereYorktown had multiple per grade22:01
th1a_That gives the school the right flexibility if it is reasonably easy to make the assignments.22:01
jelknerok, eveyone, thanks!22:01
jelkneri'm going to get to work now22:01
jelkneryou have been most helpful...22:01
aelkneri see the point22:01
Lumiereand your counselor followed you 9->1222:01
Lumierethen went back to 922:01
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aelknerwe could use xml import for asigning large blocks f students to a counselor advisory22:02
th1a_We could use xml import, if we wanted to make it much more difficult for people than using the xls import.22:03
th1a_Which might already work, btw.22:04
th1a_That is, it *should* already work.22:04
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