IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-02-01

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ignasth1a, good morning ;)15:57
th1aHi ignas.15:59
ignasdon't know if you were informed, but I think Justas is sick today15:59
th1aI have not been informed.16:00
th1aHave you had any EVE time lately?16:00
ignasnope, haven't logged in for a couple of weeks I think16:02
th1aThere's been lots of action, but I've been too busy to participate.16:03
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th1ahi menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:31
replaceafillgood morning16:31
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th1aaelkner seems to be having some problems...16:34
th1aayt menesis?16:36
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algaJustas phoned me to tell you that he will not attend the meeting16:38
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th1aThanks alga.16:38
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th1aAnd menesis seems to be having connection problems.16:38
menesishad some "cannot send to channel" error16:39
menesisis ok now16:39
th1aThat' s what aelkner was getting.16:39
th1amenesis:  Did you do something to fix it?16:41
menesisrestarted Pidgin16:41
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th1amenesis: What have you been up to?16:43
menesisI have uploaded a few more packages to REVU (new packages review tool for Ubuntu)16:44
menesis3 were uploaded and 3 more were advocated.16:45
menesissome are still waiting for review16:45
menesisand those that were uploaded are still sitting in the NEW queue16:45
menesisso things started moving into Ubuntu, but very slowly16:46
th1aWho are we dependent upon now?16:46
menesisI have been reading Ubuntu wiki, started to write a MOTU application, not ready yet and I won't get endorsements for that little work yet :/16:47
th1aSo a MOTU could push it forward?16:48
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menesisThe two people apart from Daniel that reviewed packages were and
menesisbut I don't know if they will do any more for me16:48
th1aSo they did review some of the first batch?16:48
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menesisyes they reviewed 6 packages and I uploaded 6 more16:48
th1aSo what's the state of the reviewed ones?16:49
menesisbut at this pace all needed packages won't be reviewed in time :/16:49
ignashmm, th1a wasn't Mathew a MOTU, and can't he help us?16:50
th1aRight now I'm just trying to get a sense of how many steps there are.16:50
th1aDo we just need ANY MOTU?16:50
menesisIdeally I would be a MOTU and upload packages myself16:51
ignasyes, I understand but Matthew Gallagher is a MOTU already, and maybe he can help you somehow, as he has contributed to schooltool before16:52
menesisbut to become one I need someone needs to know me and endorse me16:52
ignasand Lumiere should have a way of contacting him16:52
th1aWhat ignas is saying makes sense if all MOTU's are created equal.16:53
menesisfor now I need two people to review my package and someone to upload it to lucid16:53
menesisa package I uploaded16:53
th1aAnd that's pretty much the whole process to get in Universe?16:53
ignasmenesis, can any MOTU review the package?16:53
menesisbut still I don't see it in lucid16:53
menesisignas: yes16:54
ignasthen I guess it's the least mattva01 can do16:54
ignashe might now others who can help us too16:54
th1aThis sounds like the correct route while menesis is working on becoming a MOTU.16:55
menesisyes, anyone who can upload packages now16:56
menesisbtw many zope packages were updated for debian testing, and they are now in lucid16:56
menesisthat's good news16:56
menesisand I have commit rights to debian's pkg-zope svn16:57
ignasmenesis, you need Mats email? or th1a will contact him?16:57
menesisfixed a few packages there16:57
menesisand will do more. going through Debian is easier but takes even more time16:58
menesisignas: I don't know Matt16:58
th1aI just chatted Matt.16:58
th1aHe's coming over.16:58
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th1aLumiere:  ayt?16:59
th1amattva01, meet menesis.16:59
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th1amenesis is taking care of guiding our packages into Ubuntu.16:59
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th1aHe's not a MOTU yet though, so apparently we need some MOTU love.16:59
th1aYou might want to check the irc log to catch up with the conversation...17:00
menesismattva01: hello :)17:00
mattva01ooh, sorry to say, but I am not currently a MOTU17:01
mattva01I need to go through the process again17:02
mattva01I can get you in touch with MOTU's who can vouch for you17:02
th1aYou're an Ubuntu Developer but not a MOTU?17:02
* th1a is trying to get the terminology right.17:02
menesiswell, I need anyone who can review, advocate, and upload my packages17:02
mattva01yeah :p17:03
th1aI should point out that I will PAY someone to do this work if necessary.17:03
th1aIf that's not considered a conflict of interest.17:04
mattva01how quick does this need to be done?17:04
menesis...and then write and endorsement on my MOTU Application.17:05
th1aThe goal is to get into Lucid.17:05
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menesisbut I haven't written one. and I have to list some work on Ubuntu there, so not yet17:05
mattva01If I get 2 MOTU's to look over your stuff in the next couple of days, will you be ready menesis?17:05
menesismattva01: yes17:06
mattva01oh, ok17:06
menesisreally I don't have all packages ready for Lucid17:06
menesisbut there are ~100 of them in total. zope and schooltool17:06
mattva01I remember, I tried packaging them once, it's an insane job17:06
menesisthey are all very similar17:08
mattva01are you using cdbs, debhelper, or doing it manually?17:09
menesisdebhelper and python-van.pydeb17:10
mattva01that works17:10
th1aSorry... mattva01 and I drifted into a private chat.17:15
mattva01I'd suggest packaging something really simple  first17:15
mattva01for the review17:15
th1aI believe we did that?17:15
mattva01make sure it is perfect in every way :p17:15
ignasmenesis, would you like to package mgedmin's pyspacewar? :)17:16
mgedmin++! ;_17:16
mattva01read through this guide:
mattva01if pyspacewar is not in ubuntu yet, follow this guide:
menesismattva01: I'm trying to upload only packages that are perfect17:18
th1aI believe it would make more sense to use a simple package we actually need.  ;-)17:19
menesisthere are more that are in the ppa for karmic, with varying number of tasks that need to be done the same17:19
th1aWe do already have some packages in the pipeline.17:20
mattva01basically your very first package into universe has to recieve a decent amount of scrutiny, after that its optional17:20
th1aWe just need to keep them moving.17:20
menesisignas: no thanks, I have hundreds of packages to work on already17:20
th1amenesis, Is there one package we should be pushing, then?17:20
menesisdon't know, all are the same17:21
menesisexcept the schooltool packages that are more than zope libraries17:22
menesisinstall init.d scripts, write logs, create users17:22
mattva01problem is , you need a package with no dependencies17:22
mattva01or dependencies that are already in ubuntu17:23
menesisI would like to upload the schooltool-2009, schooltool-common package and get it reviewed17:23
menesisbut it has 100 deps :(17:23
th1aThat sound more like the end than the beginning.17:23
menesisit is17:24
th1aBut I'd imagine we must have a few packages that only depend on the Zope packages already in Ubuntu now.17:24
ignasyeah, that's why I suggested pyspacewars ;) because it only depends on pygame, which means - it has 0 dependencies, even if it does not "add" to the effort17:24
menesisso I started with packages that have all dependencies available17:24
ignasahh, if you have those already17:24
th1aOK, right.17:24
ignasthen I guess you don't need any additional ones :)17:24
th1amenesis is on the right track.17:25
mattva01so, we need a sponsor17:25
th1aThe problem here is that we need to constantly keep this shark moving forward.17:25
th1aIf at a certain point we say "oh well, now we wait," we're dead.17:25
menesiseverything is going ok except that we have only two weeks left until feature freeze17:26
menesisI have started way too late17:26
mattva01yeah, TBH there is no way you are gonna get it done in time17:26
th1aThen we're starting on M*** M***.17:27
mattva01we might as well try17:27
menesiscommunication with others is my weak spot, always was17:27
th1aStopping is not an option.17:27
th1amenesis, You're doing ok.17:27
th1aThis is a pain in the ass the size of Siberia.17:27
mattva01ubuntu politics are kinda like wikipedia's .........17:28
th1aYeah, but in that analogy, we also work for Jimmy Wales.17:28
th1aSo it isn't hopeless.17:28
th1aAnd are packages are fine.17:28
th1aAnd at worst, if we don't get into Lucid, we know that getting into 2010.10 requires starting NOW.17:29
mattva01I wish my membership was still active, because now my now my search  of friendly MOTUs has to include Luke Faraone17:29
mattva01He can get you approved quickly, but he can be......snarky17:30
th1aSnark we can handle.17:32
mattva01i'm going to start my renewal process, so if we miss lucid, i'll  be able to help you out more directly17:32
th1aBeing a philanthropic project funded by the SABDFL should be good snark armor.17:32
th1aSo... I just need to make sure we've got an "action item" here.17:34
th1amattva01:  Are you going to put out some pings on our behalf?17:35
mattva01already sent one to luke17:35
mattva01i'll send one out to my original sponsor as well17:36
mattva01in the meantime, menesis,join #ubuntu-moto17:36
th1aAnd don't hold back on the "this is a project funded by Mark for use in schools in the developing world, and I've got the packages working in a five county deployment in Virginia..."17:36
menesisI'm always there17:36
th1aOK, thanks mattva01.17:37
th1aLets move on to a couple other issues, then.17:38
th1aaelkner was up here last week and we added a bunch of intervention bugs and improvements, which he is working on.17:39
th1aI'm also hoping his IRC will start magically working again in the near future.17:39
ignasth1a, you mean bug-fixes?17:39
th1abug reports.17:39
th1aand improvement requests.17:40
th1aWhich he is working on.17:40
th1aOh... one little bit of news...17:40
th1aI haven't really announced to everyone that replaceafill is going to be working full time on SchoolTool this year.17:41
ignasreplaceafill, congratulations!17:41
replaceafillignas, thanks!17:41
th1aSo congratulations and welcome aboard.17:41
replaceafillth1a, thanks17:41
th1aWe still have the small detail of exactly how much we're going to pay him, so I'm expecting an email on that subject.17:41
replaceafillth1a, will send it soon17:42
th1areplaceafill:  How is the CanDo work coming?17:42
replaceafilli finished the iep feature17:43
replaceafillwe met with dwelsh yesterday17:43
replaceafilland he liked what we have17:43
replaceafillhe's going to show it to some iep conseulors17:43
replaceafilland he says there's a teacher anxious to using it17:44
replaceafillwith a few iep students17:44
th1aOK, so do you need something to do?17:44
replaceafilli just wanted to talk about a feature fsufitchi worked on17:44
replaceafilli wanted to discuss it with yvl, but he's sick17:44
replaceafillmaybe menesis can help me17:44
th1aThe student competency report?17:45
replaceafillyes, the new version of it17:45
replaceafillValidate Competency Resume17:45
replaceafillthe thing is that fsufitchi defined and use some new slots in the rml_macros.pt17:46
replaceafilland he wanted those slots available in schooltool 1.0.417:46
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menesisI can apply a patch and release a new stable version17:46
replaceafillmenesis, great, will send you fsufitchi's file17:47
replaceafillit's a small change though17:47
menesisjust tell me if there are any other patches I need to apply17:47
replaceafillmenesis, no, just that one17:47
replaceafilleverything else is in the cando side17:47
replaceafilli will apply fsufitchi's patch once we get a new schooltool 1.0.5?17:48
replaceafillthat's the next one, right?17:48
menesisThere was a backport request that yvl has done
menesisbut that is a prerequisite for the patch I guess17:49
replaceafillmaybe, the thing is that fsufitchi asked me for yvl's email address17:49
menesisyes, next will be a 1.0.517:49
replaceafillmaybe they talked about it17:50
replaceafillmenesis, just sent you fsufitchi's pt file17:51
replaceafillmenesis, thanks17:51
replaceafillth1a, so... gradebooks and reports are working with and without the iep feautre17:51
th1aOh, nice.17:52
th1ain CanDo?17:52
replaceafilli guess dwelsh will have some feedback after presenting it to the counselours17:52
replaceafillyes, in cando17:52
replaceafillth1a, what should i do next? cando i18n?17:53
replaceafilli saw you asked for something in schooltool.email17:53
replaceafilla checkbox maybe?17:53
replaceafillto enable/disable the email service17:53
replaceafillwithouth losing the host name17:53
th1aThat's one thing.17:53
replaceafillshould it use javascript?17:54
th1aaelkner and I discussed something else that I don't know if I actually filed as a bug.17:54
th1areplaceafill, I don't see why.17:54
replaceafilli mean, to allow editing of the other fields17:54
th1aIt doesn't have to be slick.17:54
replaceafillbut i guess we should depend on it (js), right?17:54
th1aIt is just that there is no way to turn it off.17:54
th1aAt all.17:55
replaceafillgot it17:55
th1aThat we can find.17:55
replaceafillyou have to erase the hostname :(17:55
th1aIt should be an easy fix.17:55
th1aHere is a less easy issue.17:55
replaceafillone more question about it17:55
replaceafillwe will add an attribute to the email container17:56
th1amenesis, this might keep going for a while, so if you want to go, you're excused.  ;-)17:56
replaceafillsince all the other attributes are there17:56
replaceafilloh sorry, we can talk about this later17:56
replaceafillbut i have one more question17:56
th1aNo, we should talk about it now.17:56
th1aEspecially since aelkner can't interrupt us.  :-D17:57
replaceafilli was thinking of adding a new attribute (enabled) to the email container17:57
replaceafillbut if i add a new attribute i have to think about "current" users, right?17:57
replaceafillso, should this new attribute be "on" or "off" by default?17:57
th1aI imagine you'll need an evolution script.17:58
replaceafillshould i add an evolve script that checks for hostnames17:58
th1aI'd say ON if there is a hostname.17:58
replaceafillgreat, that's what i thought17:58
replaceafillwill work on that then17:58
th1aHere's the more complex issue.17:58
th1aI'd like to be able to confirm that a given email has been sent to an individual person.17:58
replaceafilloh yes17:59
replaceafilli saw that bug17:59
replaceafillmaybe the utility should delete the email objects from the container?17:59
replaceafillshould not17:59
th1aDoes it send one email with multiple recipients or multiple emails to one person each?18:00
replaceafillit can send one email with multiple recipients18:00
replaceafillit sends18:00
replaceafillone email object with a list of recipients18:01
replaceafillare you thinking of splitting them?18:01
replaceafillone email object -> one recipient?18:01
th1aWell, I don't know if it is necessary to keep track of errors on emails on individual accounts.18:02
th1aThe use case is "Douglas's mom isn't getting emails."18:02
th1aAnd we'd like to be able to say, as much as possible given how email works, "We successfully sent the email to the address Douglas's mom gave us."18:03
th1aI don't know if individual emails rather than multi-recipient emails makes that easier.18:04
th1aI suspect it might.18:04
replaceafillright now, this is how it's done18:05
replaceafillyou send the email object to 3 recipients18:05
replaceafillif 1 of them is successful and the other 2 are not18:05
replaceafillthe email object keeps in the queue with only the 2 failed addresses18:05
th1aSo I'm just confusing the issue as usual.18:06
replaceafillno, i see your point, you want to keep "a log" of sent/unsent email18:06
replaceafillor just unsent?18:07
th1aIt came up in this context.18:07
th1aWe're adding more of an "inbox" page for interventions messages.18:07
th1aAnd ideally, when you look at your list of messages through the web, there would be a little flag on your display if the system had tried to send you the message via email but had failed.18:08
replaceafillah nice :)18:08
th1aAnd there should be a similar thing when you're looking at the message via a student's intervention center.18:09
th1aThe second one is more important.18:09
th1aEither way it is just a question of how much work it would take to keep track of that data in a useful way.18:10
th1aSo that's something you can look at as well.18:11
replaceafillintervention sends a "intervention message" as an email to multiple recipients18:12
replaceafillif one of the recipients fail18:12
replaceafillinterventions should show, i couldn't deliver the intervention message to this recipient18:12
replaceafillinterventions should know which failed email object to look in the email queue18:13
th1aDoes that require any overly-weird gyrations?18:17
replaceafillinterventions definitely would have to track its emails18:18 needs to provide that tracking service18:18
replaceafillmaybe through some email ids18:19
th1aThat's what we were thinking.18:19
replaceafillintervention creates the email object, intervention calls the email utility and pass the email object18:19
replaceafillthe utility uses its send method and returns a message id18:19
th1aWhy don't you give that some thought and shoot out a proposal for how it could be done and how long it might take.18:20
th1aIt isn't a huge priority, but worth at least an evaluation of the difficulty.18:20
replaceafillth1a, should i continue with cando i18n?18:21
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replaceafillor the smaill bugs i have?18:21
th1aWell, I also decided to shift the "student enrollment state" project over to you.18:21
replaceafillpre/during/post enrollment18:21
th1aI think you should be able to start that before the sprint.18:21
replaceafillthat also applies to what we discussed when we were talking about moodle, right?18:22
replaceafilltracking student state18:22
th1aIt is similar, although in that case the question was more aimed at the enrollment state of students within sections.18:22
th1aThis is enrollment in the school.18:22
th1aBut if you give it some extra thought and we can magically use the same machinery in both contexts, that would be worth the extra time.18:23
th1a(extra up-front time).18:23
th1aIt is always nice when OOD, component architecture, etc. actually saves a little work.18:23
th1aSo look at the proposal for that as well, and give me a response, either more questions or just a proposal on how to approach that.18:24
th1a*brief* is fine.18:25
th1aIn enrollment state the actual data model should be easy and the interface implications more complicated.18:25
th1aSo perhaps you can have the basic data model working before you get here and we can work through the interface issues together.18:26
th1aOK.  That should keep you busy for a few days.18:27
th1aI'm going to book the hotel now.18:27
replaceafillalthough i'm *really* interested in cando being i18n :(18:27
th1aSince there are three of you we're going to get a suite and do most of the work there.18:27
th1areplaceafill:  Yes, of course.18:27
replaceafillth1a, thanks18:28
th1aBut I want to get enrollment state in the next release, so we need to get moving.18:28
replaceafillah, got it18:28
replaceafillmoving on then18:28
th1aWe're done.18:29
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th1aHave a great week gentlemen!18:29
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.18:29
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jelknerth1a, still here, mr. hoffman?20:07
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