IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2010-01-18

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aelkneryvl: ayt?16:32
yvlyes, aelkner16:32
aelknerare we not meeting?16:33
yvlouch, its meeting time16:33
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* yvl runs off for a sec16:33
yvlhi th1a! :)16:34
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th1agood morning yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill.16:34
* th1a is running a bit behind today.16:34
replaceafillgood morning16:34
th1aOK, any sense of when we can get yvl over here?16:37
yvlnearest reasonable date would be two weeks from now and roughly cost $ 100016:39
yvlif I fly in a month from now it could be $ 100 cheaper16:39
yvlpersonally I'd like to push the sprint to the latest reasonable time16:40
yvlbut it's up to you, th1a16:41
th1aWhen would you like to do it, yvl?16:42
yvlFeb 11th - 18th16:42
yvlthat would give us ~ 3 weeks to clean up after sprint16:43
yvlbefore Lucid Beta16:43
th1aAh yes, I should start marking those dates.16:43
th1aI could bring aelkner up here next week to keep him busy.16:44
th1ayvl: You'd rather not come up a week earlier?16:44
yvlI lack confidence that I'll have everything I want prepared by then16:45
yvlon my personal agenda, writing schooltool developers book is quite high up the list16:45
yvland that would affect how tests are written a little bit16:45
yvlso that would be good to work on in a sprint16:45
th1aOK.  Certainly the timing should be based on real concerns and not just "as fast as possible."16:46
* th1a consults with Jennifer.16:48
th1aShe has a moderate preference for doing this during the week.16:48
th1aaelkner, do you have any feelings about timing?16:49
aelknerany time is good for me16:49
aelkneri don't have any conflicts16:49
aelknerobviously, the SLA conference impacts the timing16:50
th1aJust for you coming up here.16:50
th1aNext week.16:50
aelknermiddle of week is fine16:50
aelknercan we not have me return friday?16:51
aelkneri want to be here when jeff arrives16:51
th1aaelkner, you are talking about an entirely different subject.16:51
th1aWe'll settle next week later.16:52
th1aThe question is the weeklong sprint with yvl.16:52
aelkneragain, any week is fine for me16:52
yvlso, Feb 15-19?16:53
th1aSounds good to me.16:53
aelknerah, not then (only kidding)16:53
th1aAnd aelkner: Tue-Wed next week for you?16:53
th1aIn other news, replaceafill is weighing his job options -- he has a local offer, and with our increased budget I can pay him for the year.16:55
th1aIf he can decide if he's joining us quickly enough I'll fly him up here too.16:56
replaceafilli've been working on a proposal for the vice minister of technology here in el salvador16:56
replaceafilli'll translate it and show it to you for ur comments16:57
th1aOK.  Thanks.16:57
th1aHow quickly do you have to make this decision?16:57
replaceafillthey told me the last week of january16:58
replaceafillbut i've been talking to Marcela about it16:58
replaceafilland i'll shoot for the pilot16:59
th1aIt is worth seeing if the government is receptive.16:59
replaceafillwhat if schools are really interested?17:00
replaceafilleven if the gov says they pass17:00
replaceafillwe can discuss this after the meeting if u want :)17:00
th1aWell, that's a call you'll have to make.17:01
th1aWe can discuss it after.17:01
th1aAll right, let's have some quick reports...17:02
th1aMake sure you've read:
th1ayvl: How are things coming?17:02
yvlso, it's been a slow week17:02
yvlI'm still writing the access rights description tutorial17:03
yvlit lead to a small refactoring on security description mechanism17:04
yvltutorials are good this way - when you start describing why code is the way it is, you start seeing design flaws17:04
yvlalso, I added small feature to schooltool.testing - you can now execute ZCML directive in your unit tests17:05
yvl* ZCML code17:05
yvlI think this will be helpful for the devbook:17:05
yvlwriting the zcml directive to customize a page or some behaviour and have it executed as a test sounds useful17:06
yvland basically - that's it17:07
yvloh, and I answered (finally) Miss Thom's question17:07
yvl(and fixed a nasty bug in base.cfg)17:07
yvleasy_install is really annoying, when it comes to internal bugs17:08
th1ayvl: So do you still need an invitation letter to come to the US?17:08
yvlit definitely wouldn't hurt17:09
th1aJust to bring with you or is there someone you need to give it to ahead of time?17:10
yvljust to have on board17:10
yvlbut I think I need to submit travel details on-line17:10
th1aYou're probably worried more about the US government than your own.17:10
yvlwhere I'll be staying, etc.17:10
th1aTimes have changed!17:11
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th1aDo you remember Soviet days, yvl?17:11
yvlIron curtain... again.17:11
yvlyes I do :)17:11
th1aYou're not *that* young.17:11
th1aBy the way, I'm not going to make you and aelkner stay in the motel next to the prison all week.17:12
th1aBut I am going to make you share a room.17:12
th1aBut unlike Ignas, you'll get to see some non-suburban parts of the US...17:12
yvlplease go on?..17:13
th1aiirc ignas's first visit was the definition of suburban hell, outside Dallas.17:13
th1aFor PyCon.17:13
aelknerignas did see dc once17:14
aelknerafter the galludet sprint17:14
th1aAnyhow, I'll put you guys up someplace where you'll be able to see the nice parts of Providence.17:14
yvlthanks, th1a17:14
th1aThe only problem with that is that the nice parts of Providence are nice because they're more European.17:14
aelkneri like the sound of that17:14
th1aSo it is a little circular for yvl.17:14
th1aWhereas ignas has gotten to see REAL America.17:15
th1aHighways and strip malls!17:15
yvlI heard stories ;)17:15
th1aUnfortunately, it IS what America looks like.17:16
yvlwell, you can't cover ALL the land with high-population cities17:16
yvlit's not Japan after all17:16
th1aWell, we can discuss American geography when you're here.17:17
th1aIn the meantime...17:17
th1aSo before aelkner gets here and in time to discuss it next Monday, I need to sketch out the requirements for what I'm calling for the moment17:18
th1a"enrollment states for people."17:18
th1aor "for a person"17:18
th1aAnd then we'll break down that task at the sprint.17:19
aelknerwhat's your eta on that doc?17:19
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th1aI don't know.17:19
th1aWhen do you want it?17:19
aelknercould you make it a google doc and share it with me?17:19
aelknerwhenever you are ready17:19
th1aYeah, I can do that.17:20
aelknereven if it's not filled in, the scetched out version will give me a place to start thinking about what needs doing17:20
th1aI can probably just do that tomorrow.17:21
yvlmaybe you want to try out Launchpad blueprints?17:21
th1aActually, I guess we can use blueprints and Google Docs together.17:22
th1aI never knew where to actually put the text of the blueprints for blueprints.17:22
th1aYou really want to park the main doc somewhere else -- like Google Docs.17:22
th1aSo we can do that.17:23
ignaswave was pretty cool for collective writing...17:23
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* yvl twitches :)17:23
th1aBack in the day.17:24
th1aOK, aelkner, you've still got stuff to keep you busy for a week?17:24
aelkneri still have some gradebook bugs that are small in scope17:25
aelkneri got rid of two last week17:25
aelknerdid you look at the screenshot i sent you17:25
aelknerregarding the report card layout view?17:25
th1aNot yet... I'll look at it now.17:25
aelknerbasically, the add and "X" buttons are used to add and remove columns17:26
aelknerand they keep the view around17:26
aelknerthe OK button is used to update columns or headings17:26
aelknerand that causes the view to go away17:26
aelkneris that what you were looking for?17:26
th1aThat looks good.17:26
aelknerok, good17:26
th1aCan you make the X box have a red background?17:27
aelkneris there any example in schooltool i can look at?17:27
th1aAre the changes saved before you hit "OK?"17:27
th1aAll the other buttons that have red backgrounds when you're deleting something ;-)17:27
aelkneri can't think of any schooltool examples, and i'd like to be consistent with that17:28
th1aaelkner... probably two thirds of the forms in SchoolTool have red and green buttons.17:29
aelkneroh, that red17:29
aelknernever mind :)17:29
th1aTHAT red.17:29
aelknerwill do17:29
aelkneri finally got around to making cell ids predictable for your selenium scripts17:29
aelkneri changed it to use the __name__ of the activity rather than the hash17:30
aelknersince your scripts will create activities in a predictable order17:30
aelknerthe cell ids will be predictable17:30
th1aSo I just have to re-do those one more time.  ;-)17:32
aelknerafter you have the code, of course :)17:32
aelkneri've already made the merge request17:32
th1aAnything else, aelkner?17:33
aelkneri started looking into catalog creation, using the cantact package as an example17:33
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aelknerthis is for the intervention catalog we discussed17:34
th1aAh, yes.17:34
aelkneri'm still dissecting the contact catalog code17:34
th1aYou haven't really done catalogs in SchoolTool before, right?17:34
yvlwe could move this to the sprint, aelkner17:34
yvlcatalogs really need generic code17:35
aelknerwe could wait for the sprint17:35
aelkneramen to that17:35
aelknerbut i can still benefit from reading and understanding what we have now17:35
th1aDoes that mean that I have to give you something else to do?17:36
aelknerlooking at bug list...17:36
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aelkneradding a request page for report cards is an obvious one17:38
LumiereI did downtown dallas a month ago17:38
LumiereI want to say sorry to anyone17:39
th1aLumiere: Was it enchanting?17:39
Lumierewho has ever visited that place17:39
th1aOK... let's call an end to the "official" part of the meeting.17:39
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!17:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:40
th1areplaceafill:  Do you want to talk here or in private?17:40
replaceafillhere's ok17:40
replaceafillooohhhh little shake in here!17:41
replaceafillthat wasnt so little :|17:42
aelknerjust now?17:42
replaceafilllittle one17:42
th1aDoes that happen often?17:42
replaceafillsmall ones yes17:43
replaceafillbut this one was mediums size17:43
Lumiereaftershock from the Haiti quake?17:43
replaceafillyou can tell is not normal if people leave their buildings17:43
replaceafillthat crossed my mind17:43
th1aAnd they did?17:44
replaceafillwe have a huge building next to our appartment17:44
replaceafilland they always use the emergency stairs17:45
replaceafillthat tells me is not a small one17:45
th1aEverything seems to be ok though?17:45
replaceafillanyway, it passed already :)17:45
replaceafillth1a, can i work in some other small bugs?17:45
replaceafillyvl, is the zope.html 2.0 bug still relevant17:46
replaceafillthe CK editor one?17:46
th1aSure.  Although you can work on dwelsh's CanDo feature too.17:46
yvlyes, replaceafill17:46
replaceafillth1a, ah!17:46
th1aI spoke to him about that yesterday.17:46
replaceafillyvl, i ask because of the changes in ZTK and all that :)17:46
replaceafillth1a, i should talk to dwelsh then17:47
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yvlwell, it should work with ZTK we use now17:47
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yvldon't know if it is 100% compatible with ST17:48
th1areplaceafill:  Unless there are still translation-related issues in SchoolTool.17:48
yvland it would be nice to loose the F from CK17:48
th1aI'm kind of relying on you to smoke out as many translation bugs as possible.17:48
replaceafillth1a, yes17:48
replaceafillth1a, i've tested almost everything and translations look ok17:48
replaceafillin spanish17:48
replaceafillth1a, dwelsh just sent me an email to skype today17:49
th1aSo anyhow, getting back to working with schools in El Salvador.17:51
th1aI'm still working on the criteria, but larger government support will be a factor in deciding who gets grants.17:51
th1a(of which I expect there to be two).17:51
replaceafillah ok17:52
th1aThere of course are other criteria as well.17:52
th1aLike local technical capacity -- having a local Zope 3 developer will help.  ;-)17:52
th1aHaving the capacity to train teachers.17:53
th1aOr, at least users.17:53
replaceafillwould it be possible for you to send a letter to the vice minister telling her "you're interested in deploying schooltool in el salvador"?17:53
replaceafillor something like that17:53
th1aI could.17:54
th1aEmail me the relevant info.17:54
replaceafilli think that would make my case stronger17:54
replaceafillth1a, the vice minister says she supports free software17:56
replaceafillbut they have a proprietary SIS17:56
replaceafillin use17:56
replaceafillbut schools are free to use any SIS in their day to day work17:57
replaceafillbut they have to use the ministry SIS to report grades back17:57
replaceafillbut i know for facts that most of them still use spreadsheets to send their grades17:59
replaceafillnot all of them use that SIS17:59
replaceafilland one thing that they lack is tech support17:59
replaceafilli also know she's interested in competency tracking!18:00
replaceafilland their SIS doesn't do that18:00
replaceafillthey were evaluating proprietary software a while back18:00
th1aThat helps18:01
replaceafillth1a, will cando be taken into account in the pilots?18:02
replaceafilli mean all the plugins18:02
replaceafilllike interventions18:02
th1aWell... it will be a factor.18:02
th1aI mean, in Cambodia, we'll probably have a wide deployment that uses very little functionality.18:02
th1aWhich is good in one way.18:03
th1aA small deployment that uses a lot of functionality is good in a different way.18:03
th1aA big deployment that uses a lot of functionality would be perfect -- and probably also kill us.18:03
th1aSo it is a balance.18:04
replaceafillah ok18:05
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th1aIn your case, a government backed pilot focusing on competency tracking might make the most sense.18:07
th1aAnd then also pitching SchoolTool in general to the schools that would like it.18:08
th1areplaceafill, Does that make sense?18:14
replaceafilli still think that if the gov is not interested, schools will18:15
replaceafillbut obviously that'd hurt our grant proposal :/18:15
th1aIt would be better with it.18:15
th1aHaving focused goals is good though too -- I'd think you'd be more specific about what you were trying to do on a CanDo focused pilot.18:16
replaceafillmy fear in a cando based pilot is teachers18:17
th1aOh... yes...18:17
replaceafillsome of them fear changes18:17
th1aDo you have enough computers for them to enter competencies?18:18
replaceafillwell, most schools have computer labs18:18
th1aAnyhow, I have to go make lunch -- Jennifer's aunt and uncle are stopping for lunch, and it is a holiday here.18:18
replaceafillis not like every teacher has his/her own computer18:18
replaceafillah ok18:18
replaceafilli'll send you an email with my thoughts, ok?18:18
th1aSo think about whether you're aiming at something that's really going to have teachers entering things or whether this is still primarily used in the main office.18:19
th1aYes, send me an email.18:19
th1aTalk to you later.18:19
replaceafillthanks th1a18:19
replaceafillit wasn't small... 6.0 :S
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th1a_aelkner: ayt?22:33
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