IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-11-23

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th1aGood morning aelkner, yvl, menesis, Lumiere, replaceafill.16:31
Lumierehi everyone16:31
yvlhi th1a16:31
replaceafillgood morning16:31
* yvl suddenly remembers he has no coffe. Runs off to make some. Be right back, sorry.16:32
th1aaelkner:  Did you see the email from Chris L.?16:33
aelkneryes, the permissions issue16:33
th1aWe need to resolve that.16:34
aelknerok, will do16:35
* yvl back16:37
th1aAh, he's talking about the pdf's.16:37
th1aI'd just give all teachers the right to see all the narrative reports for the moment.16:38
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th1a(we'll straighten out what they actually should be later)16:38
yvlby the way, replaceafill, aelkner16:39
yvlif you run into weir errors while running bin/buildout16:39
th1aActually, we really just need to have a standard crowd(?) for people associated with a specific student - his current and former teachers, advisor.16:39
yvl(clean your ~/.buildout/cache/dist)16:40
th1aBeyond that, the main topic today is picking up what we started on Friday -- yvl's priorities for aelkner.16:40
replaceafillyvl, i always download eggs to avoid that kind of errors :)16:40
replaceafillyvl, but thanks ;)16:40
yvlth1a, trying to recall where we finished...16:42
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yvlah, the bugs in intervention16:42
th1aWe discussed using relationships instead of... something else.16:42
yvl... dublincore creator string16:42
yvlth1a: what timespan are we supposed to plan now?16:43
yvlweek, month, until next release?16:43
th1aI think we have some debt to pay between now and the end of the year.16:44
th1aRight now I don't want to say "Let's write some new features first."16:45
th1aIf we're feeling good at the end of the year we can plan some new stuff to work on in January, maybe.16:45
th1aBut right now I'm feeling very much in the mode of hunkering down and consolidating what we've got.16:46
yvlI'm not against medium features on Dec16:46
yvlbut I'd like to avoid any when we near Lucid milestone16:47
th1aYes, that too.16:47
th1aaelkner and I came up with a list of current bugs for him to work on.16:48
th1aYou can see them on Launchpad.16:48
yvlthat's good16:48
th1aSo if you don't have other specific concerns... we don't have a lot to talk about today.16:48
Lumierebefore you all get too deep into that timeline16:49
Lumieremake sure you find the point16:49
Lumierewhere you need to 'release'16:49
Lumiereto make it into lucid16:49
yvldefinitely, Lumiere16:49
yvlok, so I'll try to lay out nearest future from my point of view16:50
yvlthe intervention bugs I entered ar kind of hot16:50
yvlIt would be good if they all got fixed first16:50
yvl(in the order I wrote last Fri)16:50
yvlthen I'd like to see security in Intervention and Gradebook plugins revisited16:51
yvland described16:51
yvlthis one's blocking on me, as I need to write a tutorial/test/something16:51
yvl~3-4 days of work16:52
yvlanother big chunk is porting ST to newer Zope16:52
yvlanother one - making a "getting into Ubuntu" plan16:52
yvlI'd guess that porting is my task16:53
yvl"getting into Ubuntu" - menesis (and me a little)16:53
th1aYes, that all sounds right.16:54
yvlthen at some point I'd like somebody to revisit translations16:54
yvlI'm pretty sure there are invalid/missing translations at some places16:54
menesisporting to ZTK is also my task16:54
yvloh, true16:54
yvlwhat else...16:55
yvlI want to finish tweaks for our Makefiles / buildout.cfg / etc.16:55
yvl(that will probably change a bit how sandboxes for plugin development are created)16:56
yvlthe process I'm going for:16:57
th1aAnother thing to keep in mind, in terms of "planning for uncertainty," is that if all is going well we're suddenly going to get a list of requests and bugs from Cambodia, sometime in the next few months.16:57
th1aSo we don't necessarily want a tight complete schedule, which will just be over-run by that.16:57
yvla very good point16:57
yvlI think the things we mentioned above will already eat whole Dec16:58
yvlmaybe half of January even16:59
th1aI do too.16:59
th1aSo I think we've got a medium term plan.16:59
th1aAnd no conceivable long term plan where those aren't the first steps.17:00
th1aAlso, I have enough money to keep replaceafill going part time.17:00
th1aMaybe he could work on transation issues?17:00
th1aOr something else?17:01
th1aWe do need transations as completely straightened out as possible.17:01
th1aThat is, i18n in SchoolTool.17:01
th1aOh, also, I did say we were going to close translations on Launchpad, so I guess we need to create a group for that.17:01
th1amenesis:  I can do that unless you want to.17:03
menesisth1a: no groups and people are yours ;)17:05
th1aThat's a good division of labor.17:06
th1ayvl:  Any thoughts about what to do with replaceafill?17:08
yvlyes :)17:08
yvlI'm thinking... replaceafill, how would you feel about adding lovely.remotetask to ST?17:08
replaceafillfor automated taks, right?17:08
replaceafilli haven't used it, but i'd like to do it :)17:09
yvlthe thing I want to have now, is... umm... a small abstraction layer in ST17:10
yvl(so that plugins can use it, and I wouldn't have to fix them if/when we want to change/fix/replace something in automated task mechanism)17:11
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yvlallright then17:13
yvlI'll think what I want from them and email you :)17:13
replaceafillyvl, bring it on :P17:13
yvlin the mean time17:14
yvlcan you rummage through translation .pot files in ST and plugins?17:15
yvlto look for mistakes17:15
yvllike {DYNAMIC_CONTENT}17:16
yvlor <a href=\"complexadd.html\">advanced adding form</a>17:16
yvlor onclick=\"$('#more_overlays').toggle()17:16
replaceafillah ok17:16
replaceafillyvl, i usually check things manually17:17
yvlwell, you get the idea :)17:17
replaceafilli mean17:17
replaceafilli set everything in a sandbox17:17
replaceafilldownload the latest spanish translations17:17
replaceafilland start from there17:17
replaceafillif i see something wrong i check the code and fix it17:17
yvlthats great17:18
yvlbut I'd be grateful if you did some manual searching this time17:18
yvljust read all the strings, and look for mistakes17:18
replaceafillah ok17:19
yvlthose that are left are usually well hidden in UI17:19
replaceafillthis will be my chance to have all the plugins in spanish ;)17:19
yvlone more little thing - there seems to be something funny with buttons17:19
yvlok-button, etc.17:19
yvldon't know if default translations are good - please check :)17:20
replaceafillah ok, will do17:20
yvlanother thing (if you have time)17:20
yvlbrowsing through gradebook/journal/intervention pt files and source17:21
yvlto check if there are obviously untranslated strings17:21
yvlthen I'd do UI sweep - create a custom translation, that changes all messages to some short form17:22
yvlchange them all to "???" for example17:22
yvland check if anything is visible from UI :)17:22
yvlmaybe a python script would help, I don't know17:22
yvlmaybe that last one is too much work for now17:23
yvlit's your call :)17:23
replaceafillok, i'll try17:24
yvlI'll get you with automated tasks sooner or later anyway ;)17:24
aelkneri'd like to discuss permissions and reports if i may17:24
replaceafillok, will start reading docs then17:24
yvlthanks, replaceafill!17:24
aelknerth1a: about Lehmann's note...17:25
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dwelshHappy Thanksgiving, all!!!17:25
aelknerhey dwelsh17:25
th1adwelsh, That's only relevant to half of us.17:25
* th1a notes that he will be offline Thursday and Friday.17:26
dwelshTo the rest, I wish, "Happy Week of Monday, Nov, 23rd!"17:26
dwelshIs the meeting over?17:27
dwelshquick duplicates report?17:28
th1aOffering or requesting?17:28
dwelshso, replaceafill and I are about done with the duplicates userstory17:29
dwelshthis is the userstory about intelligently updating the CanDo competency database17:29
aelknerth1a, yvl: i have an issue to discuss regarding permissions17:29
dwelshstanding by...17:30
th1aaelkner, Let's let dwelsh say his peace first.17:30
aelknersure, just wanted you two to stand by17:30
dwelshthis is the userstory about intelligentlly updating the CanDo database of competencies17:30
dwelshwhen our client, Virginia's CTE Resource Center, is not intelligently maintaining the database from one year to the next17:31
dwelsh(i.e. they are deleting comps and then readding them with new ids)17:31
dwelshthis has been a very hard user story, but we believe that we have it17:31
dwelshit has meant rewriting the "import competencies from xml" routine17:32
dwelshwhich now will only work from the root level of the competency tree17:32
dwelsha competency list for a single course can be added, but it must be added at the root level17:32
dwelshwith its full context17:33
dwelshin short, we are ready to request a new CanDo package17:33
dwelshwhich will include this fix, plus other minor report fixes and bug fixes requested by the state17:33
dwelshGreat job replaceafill17:34
th1aWho makes the package?17:34
dwelshHelp me here Jason and replaceafill17:34
dwelshI'm hoping the jinty will do it???17:34
dwelshthat jinty will do it???17:35
Lumieremenesis makes our packages now17:35
replaceafillLumiere worked on that last time I think17:35
dwelshHe no longer works for Arlington Public Schools17:35
Lumierethe cando packaging is rolled up into the ST release system now17:35
dwelshSo he would basically be doing it as a volunteer17:35
replaceafilldwelsh, but we're going to request it after we check our fixes today, right?17:35
dwelshUnless SchoolTool worked out an arrangement wiht him17:35
th1aSo menesis needs to do it?17:35
menesisdwelsh: cando does not look ready:
dwelshYes.  After we check our fixes today17:36
dwelsh(I'm verifying that our fixes have not adversely affected anything else)17:36
dwelshreplacefill:  what will it take for "CanDo to be ready"?17:36
menesisI will do the deb packages17:37
replaceafilllooking at the buildout failures17:37
Lumiereth1a: yes, but my understanding is that it is not difficult at this point17:37
menesiswhat Ubuntu release are the servers running?17:38
menesisthe cando servers17:38
replaceafillACC is running 8.0417:38
replaceafilli dont know about the others in the state17:38
Lumiereall on 8.0417:39
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replaceafillmenesis, i had those failures when i was using nightly17:40
menesisso cando should target schooltool 1.0 ...17:41
menesisreplaceafill: what failures?17:41
menesisstrange, can't see why it fails17:45
replaceafillmenesis, yes, tests pass here and at the ACC server17:46
replaceafillmenesis, but both are using schooltool/1.017:47
replaceafillmenesis, the branch i mean17:47
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menesisreplaceafill: ok i'm looking what's wrong there17:48
dwelsh(dwelsh thinks this is an important discussion)17:51
dwelsh(menesis, thanks for you help, and I hope to meet you one fine day!)17:51
th1aSpeaking of which, I'd like to get yvl at least over here in January.17:52
th1aDo you think that will be possible visa, etc. wise yvl?17:52
yvlthe new LT passports technically allow to enter USA without a VISA17:53
th1aOh, excellent.17:54
th1aI should probably send a letter anyhow?17:54
yvl(but I have a working VISA in my old passport, just in case)17:54
yvlyes, th1a17:54
th1aOK.  We can discuss this more next week.17:54
Lumieredwelsh: look at PM?17:56
yvlprivate message, I guess?17:56
yvlaelkner: you had some questions?17:59
th1aGo ahead aelkner.18:00
aelknerok, the issue is this18:01
aelknerreports in schooltool.gradebook are arrived at via the specific context18:01
aelknerbe it term, schoolyear, basicperson, etc.18:02
aelknerthe link itself, 'Reports' and the report views themselves are running off these various contexts18:02
aelknerin order to prevent students from seeing other students' grades18:03
aelkneri'm forced to use schooltool.edit permission18:03
aelknerwhich means only administrators can see the links and run the reports18:03
aelknerthis is the same issue Lehmann pointed out today18:03
aelknerhis solution for now is to make all of the teachers administrators18:04
th1aWell, you're going to have to start thinking in a little more detail about permissions.18:04
dwelshreplaceafill:  connect with you at 2:30pm.18:05
aelknerwell, schooltool itself doesn't really have a provision for this issue18:05
replaceafilldwelsh, great18:05
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th1aHm.  If only we knew the SchoolTool developers we could ask them to fix this.18:05
aelknerok, i know i have to be patient, but i at some point th1a will say something helpful18:06
aelkneryvl: do you see my point about contexts and schooltool.view18:06
th1a<th1a> Actually, we really just need to have a standard crowd(?) for people associated with a specific student - his current and former teachers, advisor.18:07
yvlyes, just having a bit of trouble to formulate it into a question18:07
yvlby the way, using "schooltool.edit" is definitely not the way to go18:07
aelknerthe action button, 'Reports', for the term context18:08
th1aWe cannot cram everything into 'view' and 'edit' forever.18:08
aelknerhow do we get that to show up for teachers and admin users only?18:08
yvla good question.18:08
th1aLet's stay focused on the question on hand.18:08
replaceafillyvl, 'teachers' and 'administrators' crowd for schooltool.edit for the specific context?18:08
aelknerthat is the question at hand18:09
replaceafillyvl, like we were testing on Report Sheets last week18:09
aelknercan teachers edit the term?18:09
aelknermy point exactly18:09
th1aLook, we don't want teachers running the 4000 page term report.18:09
th1aI don't think that is the bug being raised.18:10
th1aTeachers need to be able to generate reports on their students and their sections.18:10
aelknertrue, lehmann would be happy just to allow teachers access to IBasicPerson/narratives.pdf18:10
aelknerwhich generates the narrative reports for all students in that teacher's advisory18:11
aelknershould teachers be allowed edit access to basicperson?18:11
th1aNot at this point.18:11
th1aGenerating a report = viewing.18:11
th1aFor people.18:11
th1aNot for terms.18:11
yvlaelkner, please don't use schooltool.edit for viewing18:12
yvlit will give you pain later18:12
th1aIn theory, we'd have an HTML view for this data anyhow.18:12
aelknernot gradebook data for students18:12
yvlI still kind of fail to see the problem from "ST permission readyness" point of view18:13
yvlif you want to have reports for students of your section18:13
yvlyou have a report that hangs on the section18:14
yvlprotected with schooltool.view18:14
yvland as you need gradebook data or something18:14
yvlyou allow the teacher schooltool.view on section's gradebook18:14
yvl(and there's some thing with igradebookstudent or similar)18:15
aelknerwe already have permissions handled for IGradebook18:15
aelknerbut these reports are being requested at different contexts, like person, section, etc.18:15
aelknerthe action buttons need to be protexted by some permission18:16
aelknerschooltool.view on ISection is for all, including students18:16
aelknersame with IBasicPerson18:16
aelknerthe only solution i see is to create a proxy18:16
yvlah, so the problem is that reports are well protected18:16
yvlbut their buttons still appear18:16
aelknerlike ISectionReports18:16
yvland you don't want that, right?18:17
aelknerwell, protecting the reports is the same problem as the buttons18:17
th1aFor starters, it would be sufficient if the right people could actually print the reports.18:17
aelkneri believe that's what i'm trying to discuss here18:18
th1aGo ahead, aelkner.18:19
aelkneris it unavoidable that we create a proxy like ISectionReports18:19
yvl(umm, it is not unavoidable, and I prefer you did not)18:20
yvlbut please do continue18:20
yvlI still don't get the exact problem you're trying to solve18:20
yvl(and I already forgot most of the things I chatted about it with replaceafill)18:20
aelkneryvl: i don't understand how this is not clear18:21
aelkneri have a report that has ISeciton as context18:21
aelknerthat's important for two reasons18:22
yvlwhich view?18:22
aelkner1) the action link is for ISection18:22
aelkner2) the report class itself need the context18:22
yvlI guess .request_reports.SectionReportsView18:24
yvland .pdf_views.SectionAbsencesPDFView18:24
yvlthe way I see it18:25
aelknerso without a proxy class, i don't know what could be changed to make it do what we want permissions wise18:25
yvlthe view itself shoulb be on ISectionJournalData18:26
yvlnot on ISection18:26
th1aThe problem at hand is actually some SLA custom reports, but I assume it is the same issue.18:26
yvland controlling ISectionJournalData viewing permissions for teachers makes more sense18:26
aelknernot only there, but how would you configure the action link for section reports18:26
yvlthan controlling something something viewing permissions for teachers on ISection18:26
yvlthe action link is another story18:27
yvlI've actually written down that it's not convenient to write action links18:27
yvlto another places18:27
yvlhaving security in mind18:27
yvl(written down on my board)18:27
yvlso yes, ST is a bit unprepared18:27
aelknerthanks for backing me up on that point18:28
th1aWe need to get these printable TODAY, I don't care about the buttons right now.18:28
aelknerth1a doesn't tend to believe me18:28
aelkneras a gut reaction, that is18:28
th1aIt is just a separate problem.18:28
yvlAlan, if you moved section absences report on ISectionJournalData18:29
aelknerth1a: for today, you mean Lehmann, right?18:29
yvlthat should solve your permission problems18:29
yvlor at least - make them solvable18:29
aelkneryvl: not quite18:29
th1aaelkner, Yes.18:29
aelknerth1a: he already has the solution by making teachers site admins18:29
aelknerit not right, but for now it works18:30
th1aAaagh!  That is not a solution!18:30
yvlwhat is missing, aelkner?18:30
aelknerthe schooltool.gradebook reports that i created last month18:31
aelknerthey work off of data both from the journal and gradebook18:31
aelknerand across sections, not just on section journal or gradebook18:31
aelknerso using ISectionJournal as context is not possible18:31
aelkneragain, i return to the porxy concept18:31
yvlwe are talking about another problem again, right?18:32
aelknera new class that delivers a context18:32
aelknerthat can be protexted with the right permissions18:32
aelknerand have links off of it18:32
aelknerth1a, yvl: this invites a much broader permission discussion18:33
aelknerdo we want to have that eight now?18:33
aelknerright now18:33
th1ahere is the question:18:33
th1aCan you set the SLA grade reports on a person to be viewable/printable by, for starters, teachers?18:34
aelknerhere's an idea18:34
th1aCan you set the SLA grade reports on a section to be printable by the teacher of the section?18:34
aelknerif i created a report for IGradebook18:34
yvl(btw, Alan, can you please point me to the Gradebook view class?  I was a bit busy for past few months, and don't remember what was added and when... sorry. )18:35
aelknerwhich only teachers are allowed to naviagate to18:35
yvl(the Gradebook report view class you mentioned)18:35
aelknerschooltool/gradebook/ has the proxy calss18:35
aelknerthe view of that class is in schooltool/gradebook/browser/gradebook.py18:36
aelkneroh, sorry, you meant the report view class18:36
aelknerthat does not work off of IGradebook18:36
yvlof report sheet something18:36
aelknerthose reports work off of term, section, basicperson, etc.18:36
aelknerand are protected by schooltool.edit, i.e., onlhy site admins can use them18:37
aelknerwhat i was starting to suggest18:37
aelknerwas if we had reports that ran off of IGradebook18:37
aelknerthen the links and reports could be protected just by schooltool.view18:37
aelknerand only teachers and site admins would be able to use them18:38
yvlI have no idea what are you talking about:18:38
yvlsorry, but I don't know Gradebook code inside out18:38
yvlyou need to point me to a view class18:39
aelkneri did above18:39
yvllike this:       for="..interfaces.IReportWorksheet"18:39
yvl      class=".worksheet.WorksheetManageView"18:39
yvlaelkner: gradebook has a load of stuff18:39
aelkneryes, and there are no reports to point ou to18:40
aelkneronly the gradebook classes (not reports) work off of IGradebook18:40
aelknerif you look at schooltool/gradebook/browser/configure.zcml18:41
aelkneryou'll see the reports links/view classes18:41
aelknerand note the contexts18:41
aelknerterm, section, basicperson18:41
aelknerall of that would need to change if teachers were to be able to request tose reports18:42
yvlare you talking about...       name="report_pdfs.html"18:42
yvl      for="schooltool.term.interfaces.ITerm"18:42
yvl      class=".request_reports.TermReportsView"18:42
yvlor pdf reports, like...         name="failures_by_term.pdf"18:43
yvl      for="schooltool.term.interfaces.ITerm"18:43
yvl      class=".pdf_views.FailingReportPDFView"18:43
aelkneryou're there18:44
th1aSo is the problem the way it is set up now can't differentiate the permissions based on the context of the report?18:44
aelknerok, now we're all on the same page18:45
aelkneruntil today, i thought only admin users were to request reports18:46
aelknerso there was no problem using schooltool.edit18:46
aelknerand like i said, if we wanted to expose some reports to teachers18:47
aelkneri suppose we could use IGradebook as the context18:47
aelknerso the teacher goes to their gradebook18:47
aelknerand from there requests the reports that we want teachers to be able to request18:47
aelknerand the data would be limited to those classes they teach18:48
aelknerand even though IGradebook only has a single worksheet as its context18:48
aelknerthere is enough info in the Gradebook class to get to the teacher18:48
th1aThat's fine with me.18:48
aelknerand use that to get to the data18:49
yvlmakes sense18:49
aelknerso, i can leave all the reports like they are18:49
aelknerand add new reports for IGradebook18:49
aelknersounds like a plan?18:49
th1aSounds ok by me.18:50
th1aSo do that ASAP.18:50
aelknerth1a: for the shortest term change18:50
aelkneri'll just add a Narratives link and view to IGradebook18:51
aelknerand it will do what IBasicPerson does18:51
aelknernamely find all students that are advised by the person18:51
th1aDoes that still require all teachers to be admins?18:51
aelknerand report that18:51
aelknerIGradebook is viewable for teachers not students18:52
aelknerso that will allow teachers to request their version of the narratives18:52
aelknerand no student will be able to18:52
aelknerth1a: so no18:52
th1aOK.  As long as Lehmann gets the reports he wants in the hands of the people who want them without making everyone admins.18:52
yvl"those who can view the gradebook, can view <grade> report of students in the gradebook" makes a lot of sense18:53
aelknerthere's our solution18:53
aelkneri'll do that today and let Lehmann know before (now) and after i have it for them18:53
yvlallright then18:55
yvlmail me if any problems come up18:55
yvlor leave a note on IRC18:55
yvlhappy Thanksgiving to you all!18:56
th1aThanks, aelkner, yvl.18:56
aelknerhappy thanksgiving to you all, too18:56
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