IRC log of #schooltool for Wednesday, 2009-11-18

replaceafillempty ping :)00:19
replaceafilljelkner, ping00:19
mattva01he's coming00:19
replaceafillmattva01, thanks00:20
jelkneryou're the man, mr. cerna!00:22
jelknerit works00:22
replaceafillyou sure the grades are good?00:22
jelknerwhat do you mean?00:22
jelkneri'll log in as me00:22
jelknerto check00:22
replaceafilli see carlos with 0/800:22
replaceafillfor Scratch Country Tour00:22
jelknerhe is00:23
jelkneri wish he didn't ;-)00:23
replaceafilleasy on the students man!00:23
jelknerbut he does :-(00:23
replaceafillyou're teaching OOP with scratch they say00:23
jelkneractually, he didn't link to his digital portfolio00:23
jelknerwe explained today in class that doing that is "handing it in"00:23
jelknerif they don't hand it in00:23
jelknerwe can't evaluate00:24
jelknerthat's why i really needed this work00:24
replaceafillone thing00:24
replaceafilli fixed four instances of the same problem00:24
replaceafillim comfortable with 3/400:24
replaceafilli did it the way ignas recommended me once00:25
replaceafillthe forth one though, i dont like it00:25
jelknerso what do you suggest00:25
replaceafillfile a bug00:26
jelknerbut i don't understand how to describe the problem00:26
replaceafillhhmm thats true00:26
replaceafillmaybe i should file it :/00:26
jelknershould i just say "some students can't see their grades?"00:26
replaceafillbleeding......... edge :P00:26
jelkneri'm willing to file it if you wish00:26
jelknerthen you could add the details00:26
replaceafillnah, its ok ill do it00:26
replaceafillah yes00:27
replaceafillgreat idea00:27
jelknersomebody has to bleed so that those that come after us can be free ;-)00:27
jelknershould mattva01 update now? or will that break your fixes?00:27
replaceafilli updated schooltool.gradebook00:28
replaceafillit's running the latest fixes00:28
jelknerso matt can do his ssl think now?00:28
jelknercool! thanks a 10**6, man!00:28
replaceafilland automatic backup thing00:28
jelkneri'll file the bug now00:28
replaceafillcan you subscribe me please00:28
replaceafillif that's not too much to ask ;)00:29
jelknersure man00:29
jelknerhold on00:29
replaceafilljelkner, in the long term you have a serious data problem :(00:33
jelkneri don't know how to set subscribers00:34
jelknerwhat can i do about my data problem?00:35
replaceafillSubscribe someone else00:35
jelknerwhat do you mean?00:35
replaceafillthat's the lp option00:35
replaceafillto subscribe someone else ;)00:35
* jelkner goes looking00:35
replaceafillon your data problem, i'd like to start over00:35
replaceafillto see if the schooltool.gradebook did it00:35
replaceafillwe have the original Data.fs00:36
replaceafilli can set up a testing instance to do it00:36
jelknerbut i've make many changes since then00:36
replaceafilli know00:36
jelkneradded assignments, grades, students00:36
jelkneri may not be able to reproduce them accurately00:36
replaceafilland you shouldnt00:36
replaceafillbut i dont know why that happened00:37
jelknermattva01 is working on the backup thing00:37
replaceafillno prob00:37
replaceafilli can work on my own side there00:37
jelkneri wonder if this is a time when a bit of export of teacher data could come in handy00:37
jelknerif i could export my students, sections, grades00:38
replaceafillyour tongue jelkner! remember00:38
replaceafillbite it man, bite it00:38
* jelkner bites down forcefully on his tongue00:38
jelknerthere, that did it00:38
jelknernow, what were we talking about ;-)00:38
mattva01rummaging to find my old backup scripts00:39
mattva01may just write a new one00:39
jelknerreplaceafill: so, i can continue using the gradebook?00:39
replaceafillyou can, but it's unstable :(00:40
jelknerso, what should i do?00:40
replaceafilluntil we fix the section courses problem00:40
jelknerok, we live dangerously until then00:40
replaceafillgive me today, ok?00:40
replaceafilli'll find what broke it00:40
replaceafillhopefully :P00:40
replaceafilland will report tomorrow00:41
jelkneri'm not going to do any more grading until tomorrow00:41
replaceafilland your students should be able to see their grades now00:41
replaceafillviva el software libre! :D00:41
jelknerque viva!00:41
jelknerover and out, mr cerna00:41
replaceafillbye man00:42
jelknerpeter kept busy today with matt00:42
jelknerhe started reading the article00:42
replaceafilland i kept busy with this :)00:42
jelknerbut we can talk about that on december 2nd00:42
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aelknerreplaceafill: ayt?10:43
replaceafillwhat's up?10:43
replaceafillaelkner, ?10:47
aelkneri was having trouble using the xmlrpc pliugin10:47
aelknerthen i removed the dependency on zope.publisher, and now bin/buildout doesn't fail10:47
replaceafillwhat happened?10:48
aelknerInstalling schooltool.10:48
aelknerThe version, 3.4.6, is not consistent with the requirement, 'zope.publisher>=3.4.8'.10:48
aelkner  Installing schooltool.10:48
aelknerError: Bad version 3.4.610:48
replaceafillwhat error did you get?10:48
aelknerso i removed the line in setup.py10:48
replaceafillah, you're creating the instance in schooltool trunk, right?10:49
replaceafillyou're not using stapp2008spring anymore10:49
aelknerthat's right10:49
aelkneri was excited to think that there would be one less package to deal with10:50
replaceafilllet me test it that way10:50
replaceafillthe problem with xmlrpc, is that you need a greater version than 3.4.8 for zope.publisher10:50
replaceafillbecause a bug10:50
replaceafillmakes the server hangs10:51
replaceafillso, if the instance uses 3.4.6 the xmlrpc calls will never respond10:51
replaceafilllet me check now10:52
aelknerwell, why did i get the error before removing the dependency?10:52
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replaceafillschooltool trunk has 3.4.6 in the KGS10:52
replaceafillzope.publisher = 3.4.610:53
aelknerso does schooltool's need the line you have in your
aelknerthe one i removed?10:54
replaceafilldont know if it's the right place to put it10:55
replaceafillmenesis is aware of that though10:56
replaceafill"menesisreplaceafill: I will bump the zope.publisher to 3.4.9 in versions.cfg"10:56
replaceafillthat was on monday10:56
aelkneri'll need to talk with him soon10:57
aelknercause i'm not able to get the xmlrpc to them as it is10:58
replaceafillyes, i put the version in so anyone should be aware of that ;)10:58
aelkneryou had to put it there for the bug, right?10:59
replaceafillmaybe we can remove it10:59
replaceafilla bug in zope.publisher prior to 3.4.810:59
aelknerremoving it fixed the not starting problem, but what about hyour bug10:59
replaceafillthe xmlrpc calls wont work10:59
replaceafillwill hang10:59
replaceafillok branched schooltool trunk11:00
aelknerso we need the newer version of zope.publisher11:00
aelkneri'm back11:02
replaceafillok, running make here11:02
replaceafilldownloading eggs11:02
replaceafillaelkner, btw dont forget to apply the patch to your branched schooltool.cas11:09
replaceafillthe one that filters xmlrpc requests11:09
aelknerah, yes11:09
aelknerare you getting the same error running bin/buildout?11:09
replaceafillstill download eggs :/11:10
replaceafillGetting distribution for 'ZODB3==3.8.4'.11:10
replaceafillaelkner, nope didnt get any error11:16
replaceafilland the xmlprc calls work11:16
replaceafillyou're using lp:schooltool and lp:~replaceafill/schooltool/schooltool.xmlrpc, right?11:17
aelknerdo you know why it would say Bad version 3.4.6?11:17
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replaceafillwant me to reproduce your exact environment?11:18
aelknerto answer your question above, yes to both branches11:18
replaceafillok, same i just branched11:18
replaceafillaelkner, you have a common .buildout/eggs directory?11:19
replaceafillthat's ~/.buildout/eggs11:20
replaceafilli don't, i wonder if that could be the problem11:20
aelkneryes, i'm there11:20
aelkneryou don't?11:20
replaceafillcheck if you have the two versions of zope.publisher?11:20
replaceafilli always download eggs11:21
replaceafillbecause i used to have problems like this :(11:21
replaceafillwith grok and zope sharing eggs11:21
aelkner ls -ld zope.pu*11:21
aelknerdrwxr-xr-x 4 aelkner aelkner 4096 2008-11-25 09:54 zope.publisher-3.4.6-py2.4.egg11:21
aelknerdrwxr-xr-x 4 aelkner aelkner 4096 2009-06-11 00:17 zope.publisher-3.4.6-py2.5.egg11:21
replaceafilldrwxr-xr-x   4 elbixio elbixio   4096 nov 18 03:08 zope.publisher-3.4.8-py2.5.egg11:22
aelknermaybe i should delete them and see what happens?11:23
replaceafillif they're shared you can mess up your other instances11:23
replaceafillit's better to have a NEW directory to download eggs11:23
replaceafillspecifying "eggs-directory = ..." in your buildout.cfg11:24
replaceafillthat way, you leave your current eggs alone11:24
replaceafilland you download eggs again to that new directory11:25
aelkneri'm debating whether to go down that road...11:25
yvlhmm, that's interesting11:25
yvli'll go check this out, please wait a moment :)11:25
replaceafillmaybe it's the other packages?11:26
replaceafillyour using sla, right?11:26
aelknerto all of those11:27
replaceafilllet's wait for yvl's comment11:27
yvlyou just need newer zope.publisher, right?11:27
aelkneryes, that's true11:28
replaceafillthe kgs is using 3.4.611:28
yvlhmm, that's odd11:30
yvlI added to buildout.cfg:11:30
yvlzope.publisher = 3.4.811:30
yvlworks fine11:30
yvlmake build, that is11:30
aelkneri'm using the one you sent me in the email11:30
replaceafillhere too11:30
yvlby the way, aelkner, you might want to remove the buildout line from [versions]11:31
yvlI added that before menesis changed versions.cfg11:31
yvlnow it does nothing, but when menesis updates versions.cfg in the future, it might be harmful11:31
aelknerso sub the publisher line above for the buildout one11:31
yvlto you :)11:31
replaceafillaelkner, can you paste your buildout.cfg?11:32
yvlafter substituting, run "bin/buildout"11:32
aelkneryvl: that did the trick!11:33
aelknerit got the newer version of publisher11:33
yvlcool :)11:33
yvlhappy coding :)11:33
aelkneryvl: can you help me with something else?11:33
replaceafillyou had some other things in [versions] ?11:33
yvlyes, buildout set to 1.4.111:34
yvlnot harmful now11:34
yvl(well, I started using shared eggs a bit before menesis made that a default way in schooltool)11:35
replaceafillaelkner, your buildout is using nightly11:35
replaceafilllp:schooltool's buildout is using 1.211:35
replaceafillmaybe not a big deal though, i dont know :S11:35
aelkneryvl sent it to me11:35
replaceafillwell, i'm glad you worked it out :)11:37
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replaceafillaelkner, could you do me a favor and let me know when SLA instance is up11:38
replaceafilli want to show calfano the latest xmlrpc changes11:38
replaceafilli used my own testing instance last time, but i cant do that anymore :(11:38
aelknerreplaceafill: ok, could i ask you something about bzr version?11:39
aelknersla's machine has 1.511:39
aelkneri tried apt-get update11:39
aelknerthen apt-get install bzr11:39
aelknerbut it didn't get a newer version11:39
replaceafillis it using ubuntu?11:40
aelknerhow do i query that?11:40
replaceafillthere's a file in /etc11:41
replaceafilllet me look11:41
replaceafillcat /etc/issue11:41
aelknerDebian GNU/Linux 5.0 \n \l11:42
replaceafillthen it's debian lenny11:42
replaceafilllet me check jaunty11:42
replaceafillaelkner, yep, it's debian lenny11:43
replaceafilldo you need a newer version of bzr?11:43
aelkneri get this error when trying to branch lP:schooltool.gradebook11:44
aelknerbzr: ERROR: Unknown branch format: 'Bazaar Branch Format 7 (needs bzr 1.6)\n'11:45
aelknerit looks like menesis made a 'no looking back' move with the bzr version11:45
replaceafilldo you know what a backport is?11:46
replaceafillyou need lenny backports11:46
replaceafillbzr is 1.16.1-1~bpo50+ there11:46
replaceafillbackports are not automatic though11:47
replaceafillyou have to tell apt-get that you need a backport11:47
replaceafillapt-get -t lenny-backports install bzr11:47
replaceafillyou do that after adding the required lines in /etc/apt/sources.list11:47
aelkneri'm going to have to wait for chris alfano to change their live instance11:48
aelkneri'll refer him to the instruction you just gave11:48
menesisaelkner: I don't know if I can push new branches with a lower format anymore11:49
replaceafillaelkner, ok11:50
menesistrunk probably yes, but not others11:50
aelknermenesis: i understand if that's the case11:50
menesisbzr 1.6 is very old..11:50
menesisand I don't think I can downgrade the format now..11:51
replaceafillmenesis, could a bzr 1.16.1-1~bpo50+1 client access format 7?11:52
replaceafillaccording to the error, it could, right?11:52
replaceafillBazaar Branch Format 7 (needs bzr 1.6)\n11:52
replaceafilloh wait11:52
replaceafillthat's bzr 1.6! :S11:52
replaceafillit's talking about the server?11:52
replaceafillcause the client is 1.1X, right?11:53
aelknerthe server requires the higher version of bzr11:53
menesisthose branches need client bzr 1.611:53
menesisyes, that's old11:53
replaceafill1.6 < 1.1711:53
menesiswe had up to 1.1811:53
replaceafilland aelkner is using 1.1511:53
replaceafill1.6 < 1.1511:54
* replaceafill confused11:54
aelknerBazaar (bzr) 1.511:54
menesisyeah that's too old, sorry11:54
menesisrecommended versions is > 1.9 because it is much more efficient over the wire11:54
replaceafillaelkner, i thought you had 1.1511:54
aelkner/etc/apt/sources.lst has:11:55
aelknerdeb     lenny main contrib non-free11:55
aelknerdeb-src     lenny main contrib non-free11:55
replaceafillaelkner, you definitely need the backport11:55
replaceafillit will take you to 1.1611:56
aelknerdon't you mean 1.6?11:56
aelknerreplaceafill: thanks11:59
aelkneri'll at that with chris when we meet11:59
replaceafillyvl, ping12:43
yvlyou rang? :)12:43
replaceafillin cando we have xml files for importing competencies, right?12:44
replaceafillthe verso xml is huge12:44
replaceafilllik 13 MB12:44
replaceafillaccording to dwelsh's new importing algorithm and verso crappy data :)12:45
replaceafillwe have to check the whole xml before using it12:45
replaceafillright now the importer works like this:12:45
replaceafillit goes area by area, then enter the courses, then the group and finally the competency data12:46
replaceafillmy question is:12:46
replaceafillwill handling this with lxml kill the server's memory?12:47
yvlumm, maybe?12:48
yvleasiest way to answer that is to try12:49
replaceafillgot it12:49
replaceafillthanks yvl12:49
yvlif the load becomes too much to handle, you can do several things12:49
yvlbreak XML into smaller ones, for one12:49
yvladd transaction.savepoint in the importer12:50
replaceafilllike you recommended for the students importer12:50
replaceafillok, will try it then12:50
yvltell me how it goes :)12:51
replaceafillwill sure do ;)12:52
replaceafillyvl, the "Sections Taught" links in the person's index view should display school year/term info, dont you think?13:59
replaceafilland maybe the "Groups" section there too14:00
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yvlreplaceafill: I agree14:00
yvlhave it on a taskard on my board14:00
yvldidn't file in the bug though :/14:01
replaceafillah, that's what i wanted to know :)14:01
yvlthe task reads: ST is not ready from UI point of view for multiple schoolyears14:02
replaceafillhuge task!14:02
yvlone of "find everything that breaks with X" kind14:03
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th1amenesis:  So is there some reason I'm not getting interventions when I apt-get schooltool-2009?15:36
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yvlhi th1a15:46
menesisth1a: because I haven't done that yet. on it now15:46
th1ahi yvl.15:46
yvlsorry, we were in a middle of live discussion with menesis15:46
yvlmy task of updating schooltool sandbox documentation touched several aching places15:47
yvlat a good opportunity to shoot several rabbits with one bullet presented itself15:48
yvl(I imagine how it sounds)15:48
th1aYes, the sandbox seemed to be getting leaky.15:48
yvlmy aim is to have very, very simple instructions how to create a sandbox15:49
yvland very simple instructions how to develop plugins15:49
yvlat least existing ones15:49
yvlcreate shared repo, get the plugin, "make build", write code, "make run", commit15:49
yvlalso that should solve the plugin dependecy problem that caused the pain with enabled interventions by default15:50
yvlit seems that I won't be able to finish it all today, but there's always a "bright" tomorrow (Thu)15:51
yvlI found today15:51
yvlit seems useful, and is very similar to home-brew solution that cas uses now15:52
yvlbut does all that in a more decent way15:52
yvl(grokkers developed it, my thanks to them)15:52
yvlone more thing15:53
yvlthat will probably result in SLA trunk knowing how to build a sandbox also15:54
yvl(it's a good place to practice if all works ok)15:54
th1aSounds good.15:54
yvlI'm pretty excited, actually :)15:54
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yvlI also have some plans in the long run15:55
yvlfor example, small tools to15:55
yvla) create a new plugin15:56
yvlb) create a new application15:56
yvlit will need some cleanup on our current code, and small amount of additional code15:56
yvlbut I think that would save me some headaches in the future15:57
yvl(by being more simple to other developers)15:57
th1aYes, it is necessary in the longer run.15:57
th1aBecause even little modifications like the SLA tweaks are plugins.15:57
yvlSLA is an application15:58
th1aMakes sense.15:58
yvlbecause SLA needs to change some of original ST views15:58
yvlwe currently de facto have three applications: Schooltool App (the one you install via PPA), CanDo and SLA15:59
yvlunder the hood lies a lot of plugins15:59
yvland the core shooltool functionality, say, calendaring16:00
yvlis more like a plugin, than an application anyway16:00
th1aI would expect we'll need a "Cambodia" application.16:00
yvlalso in the long run, plugins should become more easily added16:01
yvlsay, adding Gradebook to CanDo16:01
yvlI'd like to stress the long run here16:02
yvlother uses would be: install SchoolTool App, then choose what else you want16:02
yvlGradebook, Journal, Interventions16:02
th1aThat's always been the idea.16:03
yvlglad we're on the same page :)16:03
th1aMake that work and then I make aelkner rip out his dependencies.16:03
yvlby the way, near-future changes in plugin development will actually discourage creating new cross-dependencies16:05
yvlby making that hard and uncomfortable16:05
yvlbut still possible if we really need to hack for some reason16:05
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th1amenesis: Let me know when you push new (final!) packages.18:04
menesisth1a: I added intervention dependency to stapp2008fall and pushed it18:06
menesisan hour ago18:06
th1aOK.  Thanks.18:06
th1aThat will add it to the plugins automatically?18:06
menesisI did not plan to update anything else18:06
th1aThat was all I had.18:06
menesisit was done the same as gradebook and lyceum18:07
th1aSo when I update I should see it?18:07
menesisnothing to configure, included by default18:07
menesisI don't see it yet18:07
menesisbut the deb is there18:07
th1aI mean, I'll see an "Interventions" tab, right?18:07
th1aAlso, if someone wants to remove it, can they do that by removing the slug from plugins?18:08
th1aOr is it not actually there?18:09
menesisthe slug is not needed18:13
menesisinterventions cannot be removed18:14
menesisunless one edits /usr/share/pyshared/schooltool/stapp2008fall/configure.zcml file, but that will be overriden18:14
menesisthis is interim solution because we did not come up with a proper one yet18:15
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replaceafillignas, can i ask you a Term question?20:50
replaceafillthe way to know if one is greater than the other is comparing their .first attribute, correct?20:51
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ignasreplaceafill, good enough22:24
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ignasreplaceafill, terms can't overlap at the moment22:25
replaceafillignas, ah ok22:25
ignasreplaceafill, so there is not much difference whether you compare their lasts or firsts22:25
replaceafillyes, i saw that's the way getNextTerm(term) works22:25
replaceafillthanks ignas22:25
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