IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-10-05

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th1ahi aelkner, yvl, menesis.16:32
yvlhi th1a16:34
th1aFirst some bad news - the funding from Esconidido charter school for Moodle integration work has dried up.16:34
th1aThe entire state budget is just a disaster, so it isn't surprising.16:34
th1aWe are shooting for a string freeze on Friday, which means we'll want to post new translation files on Monday.  Can you do that menesis?16:36
yvlth1a, I managed to get sick16:37
menesisI am not sure what is the state of trunk or 2009.04 branches currently16:37
menesisanything merged since August?..16:37
th1aWell, we'll need to sort that out.16:37
yvlso I don't know how much work I will get done this week16:37
menesisthere are problems with translations16:38
menesisautomatic launchpad import and export does not work16:38
menesisfor our setup16:38
th1aDo we need to make some changes?16:38
menesisthat works only if translation files are in toplevel "po" directory16:38
menesisyes but I couldn't find examples how to do that using zope.18n and similar tools16:39
th1aBecause zope.i18n put the files somewhere else?16:40
menesisso although I have set up schooltool.gradebook for translation, the files are still not imported and automatic export will not work either. I can handle the export manually but import needs review from someone16:40
th1aOK... is automatic import/export a new feature on LP?16:41
menesisyes our .po files are in src/schooltool.../locales/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.po16:41
menesisit is a new feature since August16:41
menesisand I hoped that will help me with translations16:41
th1aI guess this isn't something we can fix with an alias?16:41
th1asymbolic link?16:42
menesisI was looking at that shortly but have to try moving files around yet16:43
th1adoes import need review from someone at LP?16:43
menesisanyway, I did update translations before and I can do that again, it just takes more manual work from me and some help from rosetta coordinators16:44
th1aDo you think we can get updated templates up next monday?16:46
aelknerKeep in mind that I will be submitting merge requests this upcoming weekend16:47
aelknerand there will be a whole bunch of strings that get merged into trunk16:47
aelknerwill need to get merged...16:48
menesisthe problem here is to collect and merge all the branches16:48
menesisaelkner: schooltool or gradebook?16:48
menesisaelkner: did you see that I have set up lp:schooltool.gradebook project?16:48
menesisyou can now branch from there16:48
th1aThis is one reason submitting small patches as you go is a good idea.16:48
menesisI will merge there, it will be no problem, although launchpad does not allow to register merge to that branch16:49
aelknerwhat will i need to do then?16:49
menesisaelkner: same as before, you can only propose merge to lp:~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook16:51
menesisbut branch lp:schooltool.gradebook next time16:51
menesisI am sorry I did not handle this transition well, I'm still to post a message explaining new locations :(16:51
th1aWell, it is complicated.16:53
th1aWe just need to have something in the end that works for translators.16:53
th1aI'm happy with the overall switch to having the SchoolTool Project page on LP>16:53
th1aI think that makes things more clear for users.16:54
th1a(and us)16:54
th1aAny other issues, menesis?16:55
menesisthe end result is good, but I handled the split badly16:55
menesisand it's still only schooltool.gradebook set up16:55
menesisI had a cold last week, only came to work a few hours ago today16:56
th1aYou guys need to put out some vitamin C pills at POV or something.16:56
menesisdon't think I have other issues. some 10 todo items..16:58
th1ayvl:  OK, so where are you at this point, development-wise?16:58
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th1ayvl:  OK, so where are you at this point, development-wise?16:59
yvlsplit the contacts management page to "view" and "manage contacts"17:00
yvlthe way we discussed last Monday17:00
yvlI was planing to merge it, but got ill17:00
yvland security looks near to an end17:01
th1aThose are the two things on your plate with string implications.17:02
yvlI wish it would be so :|17:02
yvlupdating navbar will definitely change/introduce at least several strings17:02
yvlI expect few strings from the big calendar bug also17:03
th1aWell, we'll just do the best we can.17:03
th1aAnd probably miss a few strings.17:03
th1aGet them in 1.2.117:04
th1aOK.  Get well and try to tie up the security part.17:05
th1aaelkner: I think SLA's user ID problem will have to wait.17:05
yvlthanks th1a17:05
aelknerth1a: yeah, i figured it could17:05
th1a(SLA has decided they need to change some of last year's user id's)17:05
th1aUnfortunately, in practice this is probably not an uncommon request.  ;-(17:06
aelkneryes, we need a strategy for that when we have the chance17:06
th1a... I dunno ... that might have to wait a long time.17:07
aelkner... yeah ... maybe17:07
th1aAnyhow, how's everything else coming?17:09
aelknerso i got the attendance data to be part of the report card grid17:09
aelkneri also started work on the four reports17:10
aelknerthere's something i realized in the process17:10
aelknerschooltool.gradebook is now dependent on schooltool.lyceum.journal17:10
aelknerthere's no getting around that17:10
th1aWhy not?17:11
aelknerbecause the reports in schooltool.gradebook also look for data in schooltool.lyceumj.ournal17:11
aelkneri would call that a dependency17:12
th1aAren't they doing an adapter lookup or whatever?17:12
aelknerthe adapter that they lookup resides in schooltool.lyceum.journal17:13
aelknerso, again, the dependency17:13
th1aCan't they use the same adapter (or whatever) that the activities in the gradebook use?17:13
th1aSame thingamajig?17:14
aelknerthe adpater for getting journal data has nothing to do with gradebook activity adapters17:14
aelknerthere's no relationship17:14
aelkneri'm not sure what you mean otherwise17:15
yvlumm, which adapter do you need, aelkner?17:15
yvlmaybe you can simply duplicate code for now17:15
aelknerthat would not be n option17:16
aelknerand for god sakes, why?17:16
th1aLet me back up.17:16
th1aHow does the report find gradebook activities?17:17
th1aSo, could we change the journal to return attendance and tardies as activities?17:17
th1a(not necessarily in the next two weeks)17:18
aelknerhow would changing the journal code and relying on such a change REMOVE the dependency17:18
th1aI'd rather have the journal be dependent on the basic requirements/activities structure than the gradebook be dependent on the journal.17:19
aelknercould i make the case for the dependency17:19
yvlth1a, plug-in glue code problem is somewhere on my board.17:20
yvlfor now, we can do several simple solutions, if we don't want to have "soft" dependency between plugins17:20
th1aaelkner: Go ahead.17:21
aelknerdo we really need to have a gradebook without having attendance?17:21
aelknerwhy not think of them together for now on?17:21
aelknergod knows we're gong to have more and more reports that combine the data17:22
aelknerwhat's the harm in considering grading and attendance together from the user point of view17:22
aelknerif you have one, you have the other17:22
th1aIt is a question of time and priorities.17:23
th1aI'm not saying, if we can't keep them independent, shut down the operation until we can.17:23
th1aI'm just trying to work out the trade-offs.17:24
th1aGenerally speaking, keeping dependencies down if possible is good.17:24
th1aSo it is always worth discussing.17:24
aelkneri understand that, but i think in this case it would require many days and major kludges to keep them independent17:25
th1aIt would at least be nice for the report card to recover gracefully if the journal is not there.17:25
aelkneragain major kludges17:25
ignasmy position back then was - separation on the data level, integration in the UI/view level, because both attendance AND grading are very specific17:25
th1aIt may require many days, but it shouldn't require kludges, just proper design (to do it right).17:25
aelknereverywhere i import i wold need try: except:17:26
aelknerthen the except clauses would have to set up a kludge to have the code work anyway17:26
aelknerthat would be a bad idea17:26
ignasas in - you need more than 1 gradebook, and probably more than 1 way of doing attendance, when you try combining - it becomes gradebooks x attendance17:26
th1aOK, let me put it this way then.17:27
th1aI'm not saying I want this *now*,17:27
th1abut in general, we would like to have a system where you had some core reports, which might all live in gradebook, or perhaps on their own,17:28
th1aand whenever new components were added to a SchoolTool instance, they could announce that they had some data you might want to include in a report.17:29
th1aAnd then your main report hub would automatically include them in things you might add to one of your reports.17:29
th1aDoes that make any sense?17:29
ignasyvl: as for soft dependencies, i think you still need "virtual classes" kind of thing, like a "virtual attendance module", so yeah, it's an "interesting problem", but the only way to have "reports" not depending on a specific gradebook or journal implementation on python/Zope level17:29
ignasth1a: just like sections announce that they want to be seen in the "person overvew" page17:30
ignasit is doable, but you *must* clearly define the available plug-in points17:30
aelknerall of this sounds like nice theory for application design, but with one week left before the freeze...17:31
th1aWhere we are is: we decided to write a few reports before doing a top down design of "Reporting."17:31
aelknerit ain't gonna get done17:31
th1aI'm not asking you to do it right now.17:31
aelkneri understand, but i need the dependency now17:31
aelkneri need to be able to import schooltool.lyceum.journal from within schooltool.gradebook17:32
ignasat the moment there is 1 implementation of journal, and it includes both the "interfaces" and "implementation" the only way to have plugability based on availability of the journal is to depend on lyceum.journal17:32
aelknerand not have to handle the package not being there17:32
ignasat least on python level17:32
th1aWhat really got this discussion rolling, aelkner, was when you said "there is no getting around that."17:32
th1aThere are ways of getting around it -- just not on our current schedule.17:32
aelkneryes, that's my assersion17:32
aelknerok, fine17:33
aelknerbut i needed us to agree that we are going to make schooltool.gradebook dependent on the journal17:33
aelknerso that my reports will work17:34
ignasi'd guess you can't do it any other way at the moment17:34
th1aRight, we're distributing this all together anyhow, and I'd rather have fracking reports.17:34
aelknerok, so i'll proceed17:35
th1aBut in the longer run, I'd like to do some refactoring around reports.17:35
th1aGo ahead.  ;-)17:35
aelknerso i had to add an AppInit adatper to the journal17:35
aelknerignas: you never added one to create the journal data container on app startup17:36
aelknerbut we need that17:36
aelknerit's not worth having an evolution script17:36
aelknerwhen all you need to do at app startup is check for the presence of the folder17:37
ignasaelkner: yeah, might be that journal was not updated to be a plugin that is enabled whenever you want17:37
aelkneryeah, so i took care of that17:37
* yvl seconds, it wasn't17:37
ignasaelkner: hmm, hope so, can't be sure now, most probably all the data is write on read17:37
aelknerit wasn't17:37
ignasaelkner: though I would look for subscribers in journal code17:38
aelknerit crashed on write :)17:38
aelknerISectionJournalData(section) crashed17:38
ignasto see if there was any code that would have been executed if journal was present since t017:38
aelknersince t0?17:40
aelknerwhat does that mean?17:40
ignasimagine journal having a subscriber that is "on group added"17:40
ignasthat adds a small thingajamajig to a group17:40
ignasif journal was present since the beginning of the application17:41
ignasevery group will have the subscriber executed for it17:41
ignasif not - well you understand17:41
aelkneri get that17:41
ignasso just look for all subscribers in lyceum.journal and see if any of them might have been supposed to have done something17:41
ignas(my english is not making sense probably)17:42
aelknerwell, the journal isn't that complex yet17:42
aelknerthere aren't any subscrivers17:42
aelknerjust the adapter to get to the section journal data17:43
aelknerand the section journal adapter which is just a proxy for the section journal data17:43
aelknerlike the schooltool.gradebook Gradebook class is a proxy17:43
aelknerth1a: so i'm going to assume that you would agree the following for schedule purposes:17:44
aelknerschooltool.gradebook depends on schooltool.lyceum.journal17:44
aelknerall reports and report requests will live in schooltool.gradebook for now17:45
aelknereven if they involve journal data17:45
th1aThat's fine.17:45
aelknerthese assumptions are essential for getting the reports you want by the freeze17:45
aelkneras for the reports17:46
aelkneri'm sure i'll have them done by week;s end17:46
th1aI'm just saying, it is not the official policy that gradebook and journal are dependent on each other therefore tie them together as many ways as possible.17:46
aelknerthere will still be a few unfinished bugs that were slated for pre-freeze17:47
aelknerunless we could extend the freeze by say half a week17:47
th1aWhich ones?17:48
aelknerdo you still have the url that gets you my bugs?17:48
aelknerit would be the top three17:48
aelknerall marked High17:48
aelknerthe last four are the reports17:48
aelknertwo of the non-reports are intervention bugs17:49
aelknerone is the auto-create of the summary sheets17:49
th1aOh, the email parts?17:49
th1aWell, that's understandable.17:49
th1aPlus, we don't know if we'll even have it in the release.17:50
th1aI'll email replaceafill for an estimate.17:50
aelknerand the summary sheets?17:50
aelkneri might be able to get at least the strings in for that view by weeks' end17:51
th1aI mean, I'd rather not hold up the string freeze at this point.17:51
aelknerhow about i shoot for that?17:51
th1aFine with me.17:51
aelknerstrings even if the view doesn't work :)17:51
aelknerthen i could get it to work after the freeze17:52
th1aDon't make it crash...17:52
aelkneri just need to add the section to the preferences view17:52
aelkneryes, no crashes17:52
aelknerjust no action17:53
aelknerthat's all i got17:53
th1aI'm switching into documentation mode this week.17:53
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!17:54
yvlthanks th1a17:54
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:54
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aelkneryou, too17:54
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jelkneraelkner: you here, bro?19:43
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