IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-09-21

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replaceafillyvl, ping08:10
yvlpong, replaceafill08:13
replaceafillhey yvl, just a question, if you have an object that is not annotatable, is there any way to know if it was created before or after another non annotatable object?08:14
replaceafilldoes ikeyreference could help?08:14
* replaceafill should check his grammar!08:15
yvlwell, you can obtain IKeyReference for persistent objects08:18
yvlso yes08:18
yvlbut why do you need it?08:19
replaceafilli have two cando competency objects, and i need to know which one was created first08:19
replaceafillif i order them by ikeyreference i see the right results08:19
replaceafillim just not sure about how reliable that method is08:20
yvlumm, object's _p_oid is unique within the database08:21
yvlI just don't remember if newer objects *always* have greater _p_oid08:22
yvlwell, it should be reliable enough08:27
yvlespecially if you want to do a single evolution, and not use it in code that runs for 10 years08:27
replaceafillor code that will run only once :)08:27
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Lumierewb lt16:35
yvlhi guys16:36
yvlsorry, having internet problems...16:36
th1aHi yvl, aelkner, Lumiere, replaceafill, moquist.16:37
aelknermorning all16:37
replaceafillgood morning16:37
th1ayvl: Would you like to start us off?16:37
th1ayvl: ping?16:40
th1aWell, aelkner, perhaps you should go first.16:40
aelknerso i took care of the lower hanging fruit last week16:41
aelknerunfortunately, one of the bugs took me a day longer than estimated16:41
yvlth1a, one moment, sorry16:41
yvlaelkner, plesae go on16:41
aelkneradding ranged values score system to report activities16:41
aelknerthe final solution was a lot simpler than the original widget that we got rid of16:42
aelknerbut i spent a lot of time wresting with the logic before i got it right16:43
aelkneri think i came up with a simpler interface for the user as well16:43
aelknerinstead of a check box for setting up a ranged system16:43
aelkneri eventually settled on adding a choice to the score systems called '-- Use range below --'16:44
aelknerwhere the user fills in minimun and maximum16:44
th1aSounds good.16:45
aelkneri think it's the most elegant solution16:45
th1aYou can also send me screenshots of these things as you go.16:45
aelkneri got the evolution script for adding the abbreviations column working16:45
aelkneri put the column right next to the score column16:46
aelknerso now the columns are score, abbreviation, points, percent16:46
aelknerthe abbr column will almost always be empty16:46
aelknerwas i right to make it column 2?16:47
th1aThat makes sense.16:47
th1aBetter than just sticking it on the end.16:47
aelknerthat's what i figured16:47
aelkneroh, and i added a paragraph to the help16:47
aelknerright before the last one16:48
aelknerEnter an abbreviation for a score only if the score has more than four characters and you wish to create an alternative abbreviation for the gradebook.16:48
aelknerdoes that sound right to you?16:48
th1aSounds fine.16:48
aelkneri'll work on multi worksheet interaction this week16:49
th1aSounds good.16:50
aelknerthat's all i got16:50
* yvl is back16:50
th1aGo ahead yvl.16:50
yvlI spent the whole time on the self contacts, which were harder to implement than it seemed16:50
* yvl hates to be bringer of bad news16:51
yvlso, currently I have an implementation without tests and catalog reindexing16:51
yvlcontacts became indexed, so they should work as fast as persons16:52
yvlI somewhat expect a school to have a lot of contacts16:52
th1aIt took longer because you added indexing, then?16:52
yvlbut it was one of two evils16:52
yvleither I keep "self" contacts in the contact container16:53
yvland keep data in sync when adding/removing and more importantly - modifying users16:53
* th1a was very impressed with the responsiveness of CanDo with thousands of students enrolled, btw.16:53
yvlor I keep the "self" contacts in an annotation16:53
yvland deal with the views that must gather contacts from multiple sources16:54
yvl(contact container and persons)16:54
yvlthe result is:16:54
th1aAh, I see.16:54
yvlwe have "self" contacts magically in the manage->contacts16:54
yvland we can even assign those contacts to the existing users16:55
yvland they supposed to be fast16:55
yvlI think it's fun to be able to assign an older brother as a contact :)16:55
yvland for Alan:16:56
yvlif you want to obtain a "self" contact16:56
yvlyou just adapt IContact(person)16:56
yvlthe code needs cleanup badly, so I'll release it on Wednesday16:57
yvlthere were other interesting things16:57
th1aAnd the security work still needs to be finished up?16:57
yvlespecially with removeSecurityProxy to obtain annotations16:57
yvlyes, th1a, I didn't spend any time on it :|16:57
th1aOK, I'd like to see that put behind us.16:58
* yvl too16:58
yvlok, so that's about it16:59
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th1aThanks, yvl.16:59
yvlother than several things I put on my board for the next release :)16:59
th1amenesis: Are you getting the error emails from
menesislate hello17:00
th1amenesis: Hi.  ;-)17:00
menesisth1a: no..17:00
th1aAh... I forwarded one to you.17:00
th1aI've been getting piles of them --- doesn't seem like anything important.17:00
menesisone, yes. don't know where it is coming from17:00
menesisshould look more17:01
th1aIf nothing else, it is annoying my inbox.17:01
th1amenesis: Did you try deploying Douglas's translation of
menesisth1a: no, haven't tried yet.17:05
menesisI have that task starred in my inbox and more, but made very little progress on them last week :(17:05
th1aOK.  Just checking.17:05
th1aWhen you're on the other side of the world sometimes people have finished things without telling you, sometimes, they've just for gotten, sometimes they just haven't had time yet...17:06
th1aIt isn't especially pressing in this case.17:06
th1aAnything else to add menesis?17:07
menesisdon't think so17:07
Lumierewhile we wait for replaceafill, cando is now part of SchoolTool Project17:09
Lumiereand that's about it17:09
replaceafillin CanDo related work, we've been fixing an importing issue with duplicated competencies17:09
replaceafillit's been complicated17:09
replaceafillon SchoolTool related work, i started the mail functionality17:09
replaceafillfirst, GUI stuff in the application preferences screen17:10
replaceafillput basic server info (hostname, port, etc)17:10
replaceafillmy main concern in this task is: i dont want to block the server17:11
replaceafillzope.sendmail uses a thread processor for this17:12
th1aAh yes... threads.17:12
replaceafillso i've been figuring that out17:12
replaceafillah and yesterday17:12
replaceafillChris Alfano finally tested the XMLRPC functionality17:12
replaceafillhe asked for group management17:12
replaceafillso i add that17:13
th1aI've been following the emails.17:13
th1aSeems productive.17:13
th1aSo what's going on with the CanDo problem?17:13
replaceafilli hope i'll have a functional mail demo for you in my testing instance this week17:14
th1areplaceafill: Great.17:14
replaceafillwell, the importer messed things up17:14
replaceafilland basically we're fighting agains cando not being able to handle different competencies in different years17:15
replaceafilli hope we can finish it this week17:15
replaceafilli guess that's it, thanks :)17:15
th1aWell, can you be more specific?17:15
th1aI'm paying for this after all.17:16
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replaceafillah ok, the latest verso export has new competency groups17:16
replaceafilland some competencies have been moved from one group to another in the same course17:17
replaceafillthe xml importer wasn't ready for that17:17
replaceafilland duplicated the competency within the same group17:17
replaceafillsorry, within the same course17:18
replaceafillso, now when you associate the whole course competencies with a schooltool course17:18
replaceafillyou see duplicate competencies in the cando gradebooks17:18
replaceafillthe solution is to make the xml importer to ignore competency groups when is processing the feeded xml17:19
* replaceafill doesn't know if he's been clear :(17:19
th1aI understand.17:20
th1aSo how does this work in the already deployed instances?17:20
replaceafilldwelsh says most of them even don't see the problem because they have new fresh competencies17:20
* Lumiere still wishes we had put competencies in school years :)17:21
Lumiereth1a: for a few classes when you import the list of competencies you get duplicates17:21
Lumiereth1a: it's largely a data entry issue17:21
Lumierein the state system someone deleted and recreated a competency instead of editing or moving it17:22
th1aSo are you mostly just fixing the importer?17:22
replaceafillwith new global ids17:22
Lumierewhen that happens the state loses its record of history and their internal rcs id changes17:22
replaceafilland helping dwelsh to clean the data17:22
Lumierereplaceafill: are we adding the deprecation field?17:23
th1aWhat do you have to do to clean the data?17:23
replaceafill1) Within a course, find the pairs of competencies that have the exact same description.17:23
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replaceafill2) Look up both competency id’s in a 2009 competency database, to determine which one came from 2009; the 2008 id will not be in the 2009 datase17:23
replaceafill3) Then, do the following two steps:17:24
replaceafilla.  Update the 2008 competency by copying the number; the opt/req flag; and the SOL correlation from the 2009 competency (the description will be the same, we don't need to update that; the id is different and we don't WANT to update that)17:24
replaceafillb.  Delete the 2009 id and competency from the updated 2009 database (this is the unwanted duplicate with the incorrect id.17:24
Lumierereplaceafill: that's not a good solution <_<17:24
Lumierewhat happens in 2010?17:25
replaceafilli know17:25
Lumiere(the 2009 competency is brought back in and we repeat the same problem)17:25
replaceafillas Lumiere said the optimal solution is to move competencies inside schoolyears17:26
replaceafillbut that's a bigger task17:27
th1aRight now it should just be done in the fastest, simplest possible way.17:27
aelknerand that introduces design into Cando that's purely a workaround for poor verso design17:28
Lumiereaelkner: I totally disagree17:28
aelknerthat can't be a good idea17:28
Lumiereth1a: right now what replaceafill is doing is the fastest simplest fix for now17:28
th1aThis is not an unusual problem.17:29
Lumiere1) you'll never remove user error entirely from a system17:29
Lumiereso we need to be prepared to cover it when it occurs17:29
Lumiere2) the state needs us to provide the list of competencies for a school year, the most obvious thing is to have the competency associate with that object17:30
th1aI think that was my idea from the beginning.  ;-)17:31
th1aOh, I got a very interesting inquiry over the weekend from Cambodia.17:32
th1aSo I'm working on a response to that right now.17:33
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen!17:33
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:33
aelkneryou too17:33
yvla great week for you all!17:33
replaceafillthanks you too17:33
replaceafillLumiere, you told me to get rid of the script, right?17:34
Lumierereplaceafill: yea17:44
replaceafillhow about the script?17:44
Lumiereleave that17:44
Lumiereit may be used yet17:44
replaceafillah ok, do you have access to:
replaceafillwe should take the start-cando part out17:45
Lumierethat entire section should die17:47 should go to the book or something17:47
Lumierewe now install using the st-book17:47
th1aI don't know why that site still works at all.17:49
th1aI guess we haven't actually killed Plone yet.17:49
menesisplone is still running as before17:50
th1amenesis: There is no rush to pull the plug.17:50
th1aParticularly before we resolve this particular issue.17:51
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th1aLumiere: I'd say we should go with pointing to the CTE site and the CanDo LP page.17:51
Lumiereworks for me18:04
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th1aWell, search works in the SchoolTool book again, so that's something.21:00
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